 Jessica Jenney |
What's with all the ads on BP pages? How does everyone feel about the new ads that have popped up on the site?
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MELODIE C. ROBERTS |
I feel like Someone has invaded Our Playground
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Mary Iacofano |
Hi Jessica, Imo-- if it keeps this company going than I am all for them. I personally do not want this site/comapny to go out of business. This site/comapny has been a second home for me. I take lots of lessons here for the pure enjoyment of it and to keep me active with photograhing. I really cannot name any sites that dont have a ton of advertising. They really dont get in the way, sometimes my eye just scans over them. I may be interested in some of them. If it keeps BP active & running, then by all means, get more advertisers. just my opinion... Mary Iacofano
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- Nancyj E. Hovey Contact Nancyj E. Hovey Nancyj E. Hovey's Gallery |
After reading an article about how a hacker has jepordized several huge sites, microsoft, yahoo, google, facebook, etc...and immatating logos, I wonder if this is part of the work. I also am insulted that as a member we have not been able to promote other sites, and now BP is giving us links for other sites. How does that keep BP up and running? It directs us to go to use other sites! yes? BP has been a home base for me since I joined, and it has its flaws, but it has its good points too. THIS advertising is very misleading to the site. The ads in the middle of our finalists, directs us straight to the middle of the page (where we look first) and away from our finalists to look at the ads! very unprofessional! Again, we that speak up get retributions from our voices? it is all a wonder to me! How about anyone else! Time to speak up for or against, or both, on BP! 8o)
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher  Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
It's not so much that they have ads, but they are just beyond awful with the garish loud colors right in the middle of everyone's beautiful work. From what I have heard, Google ads don't pay much anyway, so can't they find something a bit more tasteful? Nancy makes a good point about other sites not allowed for us to talk about (not that I have any), and then they do it themselves. Go figure.
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Courtenay Vanderbilt |
IMHO, I have been involved for a number of years in attempting to 'monetize' a website. It is extremely challenging. Outright sponsorship money is very hard to come by these days. Testimonials abound as to the lucrative promises of Google ads and it is not surprising BP would experiment with them. After all, remember that BP IS a business, and if it fails as a business we will loose the wonderful camaraderie we have built. Granted the placement is distracting, but these pages get the most traffic therefore the better opportunity to generate income. I've never been a fan of Google ads myself and attempt to look beyond them, but they are everywhere; you just can't get away from them! Anyway just my 2ยข.
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Monnie Ryan |
Google ads pay nothing at all unless people click on them - which is partly why they're in such intrusive places. I've got no huge problem if BP really needs the money, but I sure wish they'd keep them off the contest entries pages, which take long enough to wade through to make comments (without getting kicked offline several times in the process) as it is.
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Kirsten Kiki Kjaer |
Adds are always a pain in the b.. - on the net, on TV, in the radio - everywhere they show up. But often they are what pays for the show. And if it keeps BP going and going at the prize we pay now - then I can't be against it. BP is a wonderful meeting place but it's also a business and you can't run a business if you don't make enough money. Adds are a way. And I prefer adds to paying a higher prize for my gallery.
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Tiia Vissak |
I hate these ads, especially in between contest entries. They make the whole site look cheap and may draw people away. I understand that the owners want to make money, but I hope they'll find some other way to do it: e.g. publish more books, make a magazine, start selling calendars, photo equipment....
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Jessica Jenney |
They are also on the finalist pages!
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
There's gotta be a better way that's not so disruptive. Magazines/calendars/maybe setting up something to sell members photos in some manner.. Let's get creative!
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Lynn A. Page |
I completely understand advertising is a necessary evil for a website business. That being said, there comes a point where it also becomes excessive and completely disruptive, BetterPhoto has crossed that line. It looks like its pasted everywhere and is now on most of the pages. Has definitely affected the quality and content of this website for me. Please rethink your advertising strategy BP. We come here to enjoy the beauty and creativity of those who contribute to this website not to be inundated with mass advertising. Thank you!
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- Nancyj E. Hovey Contact Nancyj E. Hovey Nancyj E. Hovey's Gallery |
Take a look at what I read a few days ago....wonder if this has something to do with it. Hopefully we won't click on these links of advertisement, and BP will remove them!
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/microsoft-warns-fraudulent-digital-certificates-issued-for-high-value-websites/8488?tag=nl.e589
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Magazines, calendars, books, etc... all take a lot of money just to get put out there before you even start to get close to selling one item. Never mind trying to sell photo equipment as a revenue source. Bright colors are part of the advertising tricks that aren't going away. The tv commercials will always be a higher volume than the show. But BP doesn't make or design the content of the ads. They sell the space. Maybe in the future they can sell space on a different location on the page. But the fact is, they need to sell ad space or the same people who complain about ads will complain about prices going up. Do any of you want to pay for bandwith directly? I put a link in the forum to an article in 2009 that applies to this subject. Check it out. http://www.slate.com/id/2216162/?GT1=38001
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- Nancyj E. Hovey Contact Nancyj E. Hovey Nancyj E. Hovey's Gallery |
I totally agree with advertising...it comes with the territory. BUT it has been done in the middle of our finalist pages on BP. Saying the ones who complain about ads will complain about prices is like saying we will complain about anything, and that is not always true. BP has been very strict on it's members advertising, or listing other photo site links...and now they are doing it? OR has it been done to the site by hackers!?
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Carrie M. Groseclose |
I think the placement of the ads are very distractive and obtrusive. I don't have a problem with BP having advertising on their website, but would hope they would place the advertisements in the margins or on the bottom of the pages. In my opinion, the placement of them as they are now really degrades the professionalism of the page layout. Please BP, reconsider the placement of these ads!
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Well BP isn't a high value site on the scale of Microsoft or Google, so I doubt it's hackers. And other companies, businesses, media outlets, are strict on advertising competitors or other businesses because they sell ad space. They don't want to provide free advertising. Would the New York Times let somebody pose for a photo and have them wear clothing trying to advertise some relative's business? The placement of the ads, you have a legit gripe. Everything else you might have to learn to live with.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Well BP isn't a high value site on the scale of Microsoft or Google, so I doubt it's hackers. And other companies, businesses, media outlets, are strict on advertising competitors or other businesses because they sell ad space. They don't want to provide free advertising. Would the New York Times let somebody pose for a photo and have them wear clothing trying to advertise some relative's business? The placement of the ads, you have a legit gripe. Everything else you might have to learn to live with.
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- Nancyj E. Hovey Contact Nancyj E. Hovey Nancyj E. Hovey's Gallery |
Well I can agree that the legit gripe is the location! and a ligit gripe is that BP has never let us put another photo link on our threads, or galleries... but I can live with all of it if that is what BP decides to do.
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Kathy Cline |
Hey guys and gals....just ask BP was it up with all this! Send them an email. They will tell you why all the adds....
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Annette Carr |
Well, ok, they need advertising. But the placement draws attention away from the images, and looks downright tacky. With words that flash, really tacky.
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Karen Kessler |
Tacky, tacky, tacky...that is what comes to my mind when I see them. I didn't even understand what you all were talking about until I went to the finalists page & saw the ugly ad in the center of all the beautiful photos! Then...I went to the "recent contest entries" and the ads are in the middle there as well! Poor judgement on BP's part. We pay for our photo galleries and they offer classes that I know are doing well. Why do they need the ads??
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Rona L. Schwarz |
While I totally understand the need for advertising to help pay the bills, these ads are really TACKY, OFFENSIVE, GARISH, UGLY, and completely destroy the mood and beauty of the photography. And they are everywhere, not just on contest entries but on gallery pages as well. I think they degrade the whole site. Personally, I would be willing to pay higher rates if it would keep out the advertising.
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Aimee S. McMaster |
...time to clean up the awful flash advertisements on the contest entry page. I have awful motion sickness & I cannot view the page without getting nauseous...it's NOT a good thing! BP please move them to the home page ...
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Amy M. Wilson |
I just realized that on each page as entries move across, our entries are "lost" behind that center ad block, until they shift on, as if they move to the center block on each page but are "covered" by the ad. Watch the entries as they move from block to block and you'll see what I mean.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
...and that probably means that when they do the picking of the EPs and other rounds in the contest, something is going to be behind the ad on every page, and that one won't be seen by the staff member who picks which ones go forward.
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- Dayna Cain Contact Dayna Cain Dayna Cain's Gallery |
Just checked out what you all have been discussing and yes the ads are VERY distracting. I understand that they have to pay the bills but ads on the side, ads on the bottom and ads right in the center that covers up someone's entry? A little much I think.
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Debra Booth |
Let's hope this was a mistake and that BP will fix it ASAP. I feel that ads should not be interspersed with the entries in a contest that we have paid to participate in. It's definitely not acceptable for the ads to conceal entries, but they are clearly doing just that. Perhaps someone from BP will comment soon and clear this up.
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- Usman M. Bajwa Contact Usman M. Bajwa Usman M. Bajwa's Gallery |
Distracting, invasive and out-of-place is how I feel these adds are. Specially the one that sits right in the middle of the recent contest entries page. It just takes the pleasure out of watching the imagery right away. Heres hoping BP listens to the its loyal members and re-place these ads somewhere along one of the sides.
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Karen Orr |
Hi Everyone, Karen from Team BetterPhoto here. Many of our members have been with BetterPhoto longer than my 6 years, and we've seen a lot of changes. One thing remains the same - it's absolutely true that our loyal members are what make this community so special. If any of you have met Jim in person, you would probably agree that he cares about this site deeply and with heart. We appreciate your feelings about the new ad placement and assure you that we consider all feedback when making decisions about changes to the site. Sincerely,
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
Thanks for the response, Karen. Good to know that our concerns are listened to. It seems the general consensus is that it's not so much the ads themselves as it is the placement of them.
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- Nancyj E. Hovey Contact Nancyj E. Hovey Nancyj E. Hovey's Gallery |
Karen O A HUGE THANK YOU for responding to our discussion. Yes, it is good to know that our concerns are also your concerns and considerations for possible changes! We look forward to seeing what the results are. Thanks again! 8o)
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- Nikki McDonald Contact Nikki McDonald Nikki McDonald's Gallery |
Since I see that Karen and probably others are reading this thread, I'll weigh in, too. I found it hard to believe that ads are actually blocking members' entries and finalists but I checked it out and it's true. At least on the Recent Entries pages if you wait a bit and refresh, you will be able to see the image that was previously blocked. On the Finalists pages, that is not the case. 54 of the February finalist images are "permanently" blocked by ads and the ads now appear to be on all finalist pages. I was just discussing this latest marketing approach with some other friends, and one said some of the ads appearing on her pages are not ones she would want her children to see. I have always been proud to say that BP is a family friendly site. This is particularly important to me when I ask a parent's permission to use a recognizable portrait of their child. If some of the ads are questionable, that changes the tone of the site.
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Lynn A. Page |
It seems that the ads which appear on my pages are marketed directly towards me based on my recent browsing activity. What I don't appreciate is that they are obviously accessing my cookie's to determine this. I know this is a common and widely used practice on the internets but the minute I open a website and these type of direct marketing flashy ads appear, I immediately close it. I might find myself doing the same thing here. Still can't believe BP has opted for this type of marketing. Hopefully they will reconsider.
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- Nancyj E. Hovey Contact Nancyj E. Hovey Nancyj E. Hovey's Gallery |
Very interesting regarding the cookies and advertisements comments above. It does do that! SO I went and deleted my web history and cookies, and the ads on BP stopped showing where I had just been on the internet! Just keeps getting worse!! Sure hope this is resolved SOON!
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Toby Drye |
At first I thought my computer caught a bug, but after reading your posts I know otherwise. I to feel that these ads ruin what is otherwise a wonderful site. BP has/had a reputation for excellence that these ads are quickly degrading that reputation. The sooner they pull the ads, the better!
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- Dennis Flanagan Contact Dennis Flanagan Dennis Flanagan's Gallery |
At the end of the day, this site still belongs to BP. If they don't have the revenue to keep this site running that we are all so fond of, we may lost it.
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StoneHorseStudios.com - Eric Highfield Contact Eric Highfield Eric Highfield's Gallery |
I can understand the need to sell advertising space, but if the cost is content control, I'd question the value. The ad that just appeared for me above this very discussion is a link to another site offering online photography courses. I would have never known the other site even existed if not for this ad. I could see selling ad space to complimentary businesses as a reasonable practice, but it seems odd that BP would allow this site to be used to promote a direct competitor.
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- Joannie Bertucci Contact Joannie Bertucci Joannie Bertucci's Gallery |
I don't think it is so much a matter of ads being here but it's where they are being put! Like Nikki said, "54 of the Feburary Finalist are permanetly blocked by these ads. We pay to be members here and to have our work be seen...now 54 photos can't be seen, not cricket! Best think twice about this BP!
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- Joannie Bertucci Contact Joannie Bertucci Joannie Bertucci's Gallery |
P.S. I know Bob Garas is one fantastic photographer but I am already tired of seeing his face at the bottom of every contest page...talk about harassment! I'm not for sure but with all the advertising there doesn't seem to be as many images on the contest pages as before!
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- Dennis Flanagan Contact Dennis Flanagan Dennis Flanagan's Gallery |
That's harrassment?
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karenemichaels.com - Karen E. Michaels Contact Karen E. Michaels Karen E. Michaels's Gallery |
Think of alternatives, I'm not sure BP can weather this storm.
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- Dayna Cain Contact Dayna Cain Dayna Cain's Gallery |
One of the things that I love to do is look at everyone else's work. That's why I joined BP. There are some EXCELLANT photographer's on here but when I am looking at those beautiful images and right in the middle of the page is an ad flashing at me it ruins the whole experience. I sure hope BP reconsiders the placement of these ads.
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Lynn A. Page |
Another word for harassment might be, annoy, pester,persist,irritate,aggrivate. It's the frustration everyone is feeling here.
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- Melinda F. Schneider Contact Melinda F. Schneider Melinda F. Schneider's Gallery |
Repeatedly, it seems, what members object to is BP's practice of instituting something new (like these ads) without first getting member input. Then, there is a kneejerk reaction (on the part of BP) to FIX the problem they created! BP, we are not against change. We are not against bettering the site. We are not against you making more money. But please think things through first! If you were to ask for our input in advance, you might make some better decisions. You might be less likely to lose members who get upset with the sudden (and sometimes offensive) changes. You would not have to react, after the fact, to your own mistakes. This happens time and time again. Have a little more forethought, please!
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Who has the kneejerk reaction?
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Carol Teal |
Truly, I am so used to seeing ads everywhere on the Internet that I completely ignore them. I have never clicked on an ad and will never. If it is something that interests me, then I will open another window and do a search to find the site and access it that way. Once in awhile my hubby stops by the PC and comments on an ad, and I always ask "What are you talking about???" When he points it out, I tell him it is just an ad which I totally ignore. However, the ads in the middle of the recent entries and finalists pages are jammed in there so they look crowded and truly bad. For a moment, I could see someone accidently clicking on one because they are almost the same size as the photos. Maybe that is the idea because I assume that BP may make more money if the ads are clicked on. But as others have mentioned, it does seem strange to have ads of sites that are in competition with you. And the fact that they are blocking finalists is really unfair to those whose finalists are blocked. I would agree that if these ads have to be on the site to at least have them placed above or below the photos.
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Courtenay Vanderbilt |
I have tried to be diplomatic about the ad issue b/c I understand the challenges associated with monetizing a website, but the issue of obscuring images certainly needs to be addressed by BP. This 'now you see it', 'now you don't' on the contest pages makes commenting frustrating to say the least. To totally obscure a Finalist image is unacceptable to the intent of this site. I know that code can be written to alleviate that problem. It would be nice if a BP tech would weigh in on this issue and let us know that they working on it. That might at least stem the flow of frustration.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
That sure would help! I'm almost ready to stop commenting until they fix this mess. You have to keep backtracking to see if you missed anything.
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Patti Coblentz |
I am in complete agreement w/ both Courtenay and Carolyn...the ads on the sides are not a problem, but it is very frustrating to be looking through a row of contest or finalist images and find an ad smack in the middle of the images.
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- Brenda Sides Contact Brenda Sides Brenda Sides's Gallery |
I thought something was wrong- I saw my contest entry, then checked back later, and it was gone. I sent an email to BetterPhoto this morning before I found the answer on here. I can't believe that an ad was in its place! What's up with that BP?? And the ads look TACKY among our contest entries, especially the bright colored, flashing ones:(
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Michelle Alton |
I agree with those who understand the need for advertising, but are offended by the garish displays in the center of contest pages. I'm certain BP can fix the bug that makes the ad cover a contest entry or finalist. But the whole idea of having a large ad that uses tracking cookies to create itself based on our site histories....THAT one needs to go, or at least be relegated to marginal space. I'd even agree to pay a bit of a premium to lose that one.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
"Think of alternatives, I'm not sure BP can weather this storm. Filing Chapter 11 papers as we speak.
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
Gregory, could you clarify whether you are offering a retort to Karen, or are in possession of actual bankruptcy news? Otherwise, that's how a mighty big rumor gets started and spreads like wildfire!
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
Has anybody heard from BP other than in this thread about whether or not they are going to fix this?
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Patti Coblentz |
Have heard nothing, but I agree with the question posed by Chris to Gregory re. clarification of his statement.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
From www.chocolatemilk.com-"Chocolate contains a lot of antioxidants known as flavinoids that help the body. The darker the chocolate is, the richer in antioxidants it is. These antioxidants shown through an Italian study reveal that these flavinoids help lower blood pressure and improve cardiovascular health preventing such things, like heart attacks, from occurring. It also shows that eating chocolate every three days improves your overall well being and health. A whole gallon of chocolate milk for everybody. Oh by the way, yall missed the sarcasm last time.
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- Joannie Bertucci Contact Joannie Bertucci Joannie Bertucci's Gallery |
Maybe now isn't the time for sarcasm!
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I see they just came out with another 2 for 1 offer on the websites, etc. I'm waiting to see if they fix this ad thing before I decide if I'm renewing at all.
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Lynn A. Page |
Seems strange with all the activity on this thread that BP hasn't made some sort of statement other than the initial response by Karen Orr. I have no desire to even look through the new entries submitted for the monthly contest due to the distraction of the ads, and this was my absolute favorite part of visiting this website.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
But there's always time for freakin' out. Or so it seems around here.no exclamation point
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- Joannie Bertucci Contact Joannie Bertucci Joannie Bertucci's Gallery |
No exclamation point needed!
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- Leslie McLain Contact Leslie McLain Leslie McLain's Gallery |
I agree the ads are annoying, however, BP needs to make money to stay in business. This is still far and away the best photo sharing/contest site on the web. In fact, there is not another site even close to what BP offers. I for one would be very upset if BP was gone and I think everyone commenting here would feel the same. BP is a great site and a great community of photographers. Hopefully, BP can find a way to make the ads a little less annoying. Although ads everywhere (tv, radio, the internet) are becoming more frequent and more annoying. In the end, our choice is to pay alot more for our personal site (HBO vs free TV) or put up with the ads. I for one, just want BP to survive.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
We ALL want BP to survive. Nobody is saying the ads should go, just MOVE them off of our entries pages and the finalists pages. Or at least put them somewhere they aren't blocking a picture!
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Patti Coblentz |
Yes, having a huge "Hot Dang" hamburger ad imposing itself in the center of the images on each page is horrible! Keep the ads, agreed, but please do something about their placement. It truly spoils the integrity of the art and the enjoyment of browsing through new entries...and what about the poor finalists who had their images covered by a "Hot Dang" hamburger.
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Courtenay Vanderbilt |
I think we all here need to face the fact that BP clearly does not see this as an issue. Just as easy as it was to pop out a "2 for 1" special, they could have just as easily sent out an email saying "We're working on the problem". Am I wrong?
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
NO!
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
"I think we all here need to face the fact that BP clearly does not see this as an issue" So it's a fact now, and it couldn't be that there just may be more to it than simply switching things as soon as a small group ask for it? Make the border a more festive color by tomorrow.urr-ange would be nice Selling ads is a business agreement. You agree on size, location, duration. In fact, you could say it's like agreements on photo usage rights.Say What(exclamation point) So consider the possibilities that for now some ads will have to stay where they are, and how they are, because that's what the deal was. And maybe in the future, new deals for ads will be placed somewhere else. It's possible. Couldn't it? Maybe? Sorta?
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Courtenay Vanderbilt |
You seem to be overlooking the FACT that websites are HTML code. The ads do not have to go away...but code can be written so that the ad doesn't obscure an image. So, my comment still stands. It's not an issue with them. Get it?
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Purple fonts indicate that I know websites have code. And just like the magazines you can sell ads and base part of the sale on the location of where it is on the page, whether it's the page of a magazine or the page of a website. They do call them web pages. A larger ad at the top of a magazine page may generate more money than an ad at the bottom of the page. If you sold an ad to be placed at the top, you can't just move it to a different location because some reader doesn't want it there. Breach of contract. So just because writing different code may be easier than changing layouts and reprinting actual paper, it still may not be something they can do because a few people ask for. That's what you're overlooking and not getting.
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Amy M. Wilson |
Amen, Courtenay!!! I'm not wild about the placement of the ads either but that's NOT the issue - IT'S THE OBSCURING OF ENTRIES AND FINALISTS and Courtenay is right, that can, AND SHOULD, be corrected with proper code!
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
Not everyone that is upset is saying so in the QnA.. There are LOTS of people who have sent private emails in to BP. So how do you know it's just a small group that is angry?
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
About 30 different people so far in this thread complaining. With just the A thru C list of people with deluxe sites, that's about 9%. Then there's still the rest of the alphabet, those with just galleries, those that only take classes, etc... I feel safe in saying that up to this point, it's a small group. Regardless of how ever many emails, that if they're private not seeing how you have an idea of how many there are, have been sent. It's not a change that's going to happen in a few days.
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- Nancyj E. Hovey Contact Nancyj E. Hovey Nancyj E. Hovey's Gallery |
Another deciding factor will be at the end of APRIL, and we see the total count of entries for APRIL. Do they increase? or decrease? or stay the about the same! ALSO, BP can count how many actually hit on the pages where their ads are placed to see if the members look at that page more, or less, or about the same. ME? personally, I have stopped looking at the entries! for now! THOSE figures make huge statements!
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Aimee C. Eisaman |
Trust me the people on this thread are not the only ones upset about this.....many many many more!!! They just happen to not visit the question and answer section of the site.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
And, no doubt somebody will weigh the number of complaints, with the total number of people registered or involved in some way with BP, with the benefits of the ads, whatever they may be, and make a decision on what to do with the ads. If they decide to do anything at all. I'm sure they'll even take into consideration the people who say the ad irrevocably and completely takes away the ability to look at anything else that's on the same page. But like almost everything that's ever been changed, when somebody doesn't agree or like it, they really can't see beyond their own problem. And if they don't like, that has to mean everybody doesn't like it. Impossible that the majority can just go on as usual. Is anybody willing to answer yes or no, if you think that many people can look at a web page and be able to look at 11 images vs 1 ad, and do it without being thrown for a complete loop that they have to not look at the entire page at all?
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Steve M. Harrington |
How you do go on, Gregory! Counting protesting heads by wild inference, even if you are right, is irrelevant to whether garish and flashing ads placed over the images this site is supposedly all about is a dumb idea. They are clearly intrusive. It was a bad idea when conceived and remains a stupid one.
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Kirsten Kiki Kjaer |
I stated earlier that I wasn't against ads if it means keeping a gallery at the price level it is now. I didn't know then that an ad might conceal an entry. What is the point in entering an image into a contest if noone will ever see it?
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MELODIE C. ROBERTS |
Oh, Steve's Here This Just Got Good!!
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Courtenay Vanderbilt |
Just doing some information gathering currently. I'll let you know what I find out!
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Lynn A. Page |
Wow, this has turned into somewhat of a debate on what BP should do. Perhaps the first thing BP should do is defuse this entire issue with a little communication. I don't feel you need the overall consensus of the masses before you respond to a problem. Most of the members who frequent this have a fairly high visual artistic sense and therefore do find the ads as a major annoyance and distraction rather than an acceptable form of marketing. Just say'n, and of course it's just my opinion.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
It's not unreasonable for them to respond and at least let us know what they are going to do, is it?? I mean, they know how upset we all become the longer things aren't addressed.
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- Elida Gutierrez Contact Elida Gutierrez Elida Gutierrez's Gallery |
it's simple, they need more money.
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Tiia Vissak |
Sure they need more money, but this may be a wrong way to achive their goal... covering entries & Finalists with ads and advertising some alternative contests may draw people away... no people, no money again.
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Mary Iacofano |
Heres a suggestion, if anyone has the desire or knowledge/money to build a better photography site, than go for it and invite us all in. What do ya think? If an entry is covered up than look again in 10 minutes and it will be visible. This is going back to all the complaining about the contest. I agree with Gregory. I look forward to joining for free any site anyone puts together. Good luck with it, it must be a huge task. Guys & gals, let BP run their site the way they can best serve all of us. I do not want to spend more money on classes. could not afford that. What do you see when you turn on TV...=advertising. I know you all dont want your image covered up and neither do I, but it does scroll through. Its not like BP staffers are sabotaging anyone. This is still the best photography site online, lets thank BP staffers for that. Thanks BP...Luv this site!
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Patti Coblentz |
I don't think that anyone is in disagreement with you, Mary...the issue, I suppose, is the placement of ads directly in the middle of the contest entry and finalist pages. Through Google Adsense it is possible to format the placement of ads in any # of ways...it is simply being suggested that they take a closer look at that.
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Tiia Vissak |
BP is not completely free (if you don't pay for the portfolio or join a course, then you'll just have a 1-month free period). I know a couple of other sites that offer free membership (including the opportunity to create your own portfolio and the possibility to get published in their magazine even if you don't pay anything) but also a paid membership with some more rights & possibilities. No site is 100% perfect (for example, one of the 2 sites I mentioned relies too much on members' votes while selecting photos for its magazine, while the other has thousands of members, so it's hard to get noticed). I have already suggested that BP could benefit from creating its own magazine. This does not need a huge investment at all: some sites (like http://issuu.com/ and http://www.magcloud.com/ let you create your own magazine for free, they'll sell the mag and you'll earn from every copy they sell. It would just need time to pick photos for the mag, design it (but you'll find lots of freeware for that) and get the authors agree to publication.
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Kirsten Kiki Kjaer |
I love BP too, Mary. I just don't like ads covering entries, that's all.
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Annette Carr |
BP is the best photography site I have been able to find. I love this site. But I agree that the ads should not cover an entry. It's like opening the BP website and having another website load up. I'm sure BP wouldn't be happy. We pay for our memberships, apparently they need more profit. I'm glad they have not raised the membership fee.
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- Ritajane Smith Contact Ritajane Smith Ritajane Smith's Gallery |
Tiia V, Love the Magazine idea!! Buy it in a heartbeat... And the ads could be in the magazine!
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Peter W. Marks |
Using the logic of Gregory re only 30 members complaining out of several thousand BP members, I suppose we can assume we are all happy with gas approaching $4.00 a gallon. After all I see very few letters from the several million vehicle owners to the NY Times or Washington Post complaining about the cost. Perhaps a more relevant argument against these ads would be to consider the aesthetics. Does anyone feel that we would be awarded winner's prizes on BP if the pictures we submitted all had our own advertisements across the images? Or is it unreasonable to apply aesthetic arguments to a site that claims that it is "The better way to better photographs".
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Annette Carr |
Here Here! I agree with you Peter.
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Courtenay Vanderbilt |
I just wanted to satisfy myself that changing the way the images are obscured could be fixed, not that BP necessarily would fix them. I checked with my tech guy and this is what he had to say from my brief explanation and screen shots of the issue. (I underlined for emphasis.) "You can control anything on the page with CSS but it all depends on the layout and code that the current site is working with." (ie: he would have had to see BP's code to know how to change it) I consider him to be quite exceptional; he can write code in 5 HTML languages and I've seen him work magic that I didn't think possible on a website. I offered to connect Jim with him, but my email went unanswered....4 days and counting. All I can say at this point like everything else; "this too shall pass".
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Carol Teal |
While you can wait 10 minutes and hopefully the image that was covered by an ad will be uncovered by then, the finalist pages do not change as there are no new photos being added so that the images move. So while I do not know for certain that the ads on the finalist pages are covering a photo, if they are, then it is really unfair for the people whose finalists are being covered. And a couple nights ago, I wanted to see myself if an image moved from behind the ad on the recent entries page, so I waited and waited for the photos to move and finally gave up and went to bed. It was a much longer wait than 10 minutes. I guess it was a slow night.
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- Nikki McDonald Contact Nikki McDonald Nikki McDonald's Gallery |
On the Recent Entries page, don't forget to hit refresh before you give up, Carol :) But yes, on a slow night it might be awhile before someone else posts an entry. On the finalists page, a simple count will give you the answer. There were 649 total finalists in February. There are 54 pages of 12 spots each plus one page with a single image. 12x54+1=649 There are 54 ads, one on each page, and each of those covers up a February finalist -- permanently. I would be willing to bet that most if not all of those finalist images would be visible if you were also to look for them under their category as it's highly unlikely their relative position on a page would be identical both places, but that seems a very cumbersome way to view finalists. I don't often go back through past finalists though I have on occasion, but I always go through all the finalists when they are released and the ad placement will be most unfortunate at that time.
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- Dennis Flanagan Contact Dennis Flanagan Dennis Flanagan's Gallery |
If you are blessed like I am without a optimum internet connection you will notice when it loads that no images are being covered up by a banner. I loaded both finalists pages and contest entry pages a few times. Each time, the photos load first then the advertisment banner. Every time, there was a big white blank space where the ad was placed. It was not covering up an entry. Instead of worrying about something so trivial, pick up your camera and go shoot something.
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Tiia Vissak |
Some entries are covered: for example, enter something to the contest, have a look at the first page or the page where your entry appears, wait a bit until some more entries are added (reload/refresh the page) and then you'll see that your entry will be covered for a while until the next entry is added. When your entry moves to the second page, your entry will be covered again for a while and this continues on the 3rd page etc. Unfortunately, Finalist pages cannot be refreshed like that (no additional entries are added, so there's no point to do it), so, some entries are covered forever.
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Patti Coblentz |
Dennis, it is NOT trivial, and if you read Nikki's #'s you will see that the finalist images are permanently covered with an ad. Trivial to you, perhaps, but not to those who have worked hard to receive a finalist only to have it permanently covered by an ad.
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Monnie Ryan |
I just watched for something like 7 minutes while my contest entry this morning was hidden behind an ad before reappearing at the right of the ad when new photos were posted on the first page. There's no question that one photo on every page (and on the Finalists pages, where it's always the same ones) are being blocked out.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
The white space Dennis noticed is just due to slow loading. There's definitely a photo under the ad. If you look on both sides of the ad and then wait for another upload, you will see one that wasn't there before and the one on the other side missing.
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Jessica Jenney |
I just checked the winners pages for each category! The ads are there also and those images don't move!
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Jessica Jenney |
winners category
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Jessica Jenney |
In the Digital winners category, the one that's covered by an ad was the First Place winner! Check above!
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Carol Teal |
Yes, I checked the link, and it says there are eleven finalists on that page but you see only ten. Even if BP can't move the ads, surely they can rewite some code to move the finalist out from under the ad.
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Kathy Cline |
All this makes me soooo SAD!! If only BP would care enough about its clients/customers to respond.
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Stephen Shoff |
Gregory -- as a trained visual scientist, I can give you a "yes or no" answer. The answer is "no". Most people cannot perceptually ignore the ads that have been placed in the center of the page. That isn't the way our visual system works. Some people can train themselves to easily overlook these things, and many people over time adapt to them and develop coping mechanisms. But the fundamental goal of successful advertising is that it is constructed in such a way as to capture, and I use the term advisedly, the viewer's attention. This set of ads leverages nearly all the visual cues of the human visual system. It is very effective advertising. For those who are counting, and you seem to be one of them, add 1 more to your tally. But don't be fooled into thinking your tally is representative. I sent my formal response to BP 10 days ago through their feedback form. I have the same concern that has been generally expressed. The style and placement of the adds degrades the value of the site to me. It actively prevents my viewing through the contest pages for the purpose for which I came. At the moment, I can ignore the contest. I can suspend any posting of images to the contest. I'll re-evaluate when I reach conclusions about where BP is going from here. There are still several features of the site that are of value...a discussion group that I am in, and the potential for some classes from photographers whose work I have admired over the years. My renewal date isn't approaching so I don't have to make any quick decisions. But I do have choices. If the site becomes too much trouble for what it is worth, I can simply stop coming.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
You answered a slightly different question. I didn't ask if people could look at the page and ignore them. I know they're going to notice them. I asked if most people would still be able to look at the images on the page or does the baby go out with the water, the tub, the soap, and the plumbing is ripped out. Chocolate milk. Good for the body. Good for the soul.
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Carol Teal |
The bigger question should be can they or will they? If it means that finalists or wins are permanently covered on some of the pages, then I probably will not look beyond the ads. So when my membership is over, I very well may leave. At times, I have thought of letting it lapse anyway because of other changes that BP has pushed through that were unpopular. This one may be the one that tips the balance towards the negative and be the deciding factor for me, and possibly others, to leave. I have been a loyal Yahoo mail user for 12 years. Yahoo just sent me an email telling me that I would have to upgrade my mail to the new Yahoo mail within the next few months. Also notice, I said they sent me an email telling me of the change, not springing it on me as BP often does. If the new Yahoo mail is what I have seen and tried previously, then I seriously doubt I will continue with my Yahoo mail. I will give it a chance for a week or two, but it may be a change I am unwilling to accept. Does the email still work as well as the old? Yes, but it is the style, font, and other slight changes that I just can't stand to look at. At least Yahoo has asked for feedback when I previously tried the new and changed back to the old, so maybe they have taken some of my comments into consideration and made changes I can live with. I will soon know and make my decision when I am forced to change.
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Jessica Jenney |
When the finalists come out this month who will be the unfortunate people whose images are under the ads? That's just wrong!
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MELODIE C. ROBERTS |
I'm Sure ALL of mine will be under an ad ;0)
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Courtenay Vanderbilt |
Nuh-uh...they're mine! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
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Peter W. Marks |
I am rather surprised that when I commented on the aesthetics of plastering ads all over BP pages the only one who responded was Annette. Everyone else appears to be hung up on whether or not a winner's image is obscured and whether or not it is easy to rewrite the computer code to alter this (as if BP doesn't already have that knowledge). I am possibly naive in thinking that the website design should set the standard for the quality of the members' images I tried to make the point that BP sets itself up as 'The Better Way to Better your Photography' but it seems to employ the very lowest of standards with vulgar advertising colors and layouts. Not exactly 5th Ave NYC store front quality is it (Cartiers, Tiffany, Louis Vuitton etc) More like semi- derelict inner-city storefronts offering 'title loans", "check into cash",and "used auto parts"; with their windows covered with "2 for 1" deals, "Going out of business sale","SaleSaleSale!!!-final day".etc. I am thinking that Jim is possibly making a concentrated effort to up his annual revenue so that he gets an offer he can't refuse to buy the site. His perogative of course and we can vote with our feet when next subscription time comes around.
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Carol Teal |
Peter, I agree that the ads look crowded and tacky, and my choice would be to have better-looking ads or none at all. I hate TV commercials too but they are here to stay, but if they suddenly started popping up in the middle of the screen and covering part of the actual TV program, then I would be really upset. So if the ads have to stay, at least I don't think they should cover photos. I am very adept at either tuning out or just not being very observant, so this is a plus when it comes to Internet ads, but it is a terrible trait when I can't recognize my waitress that was at my table moments before. I realize that the majority of the people cannot do this, so I would hope that BP listens to the members because the members make the site. With few or no members, no site would exist for long.
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Jessica Jenney |
I wrote to BP about this issue and I heard back from Melody at support. Sounds like their standard email.
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Jessica Jenney |
I forgot to mention that I contacted BP staff on April 13th.
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Lynn A. Page |
Same single automated response I received a week ago. Maybe they've all gone fishing!
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I would have taken advantage of their renewal two for one sale if they had answered and told us if they intend to fix this or not, but since they haven't told us, I'm holding up on renewing until they respond.
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- Jill Odice Contact Jill Odice Jill Odice's Gallery |
I know that BP is a money making business, but personally I find all those ads right in the middle of the page very distracting! If they were just on one side of the page or the bottom they would not bother me as much even if I don't want to read them...But I enjoy looking at all the new entries into the contest, and find that I get annoyed having to see a big ad right in the middle of all the beautiful pictures....Just my 2 cents worth :-)
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Jessica Jenney |
Here's the thread!
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Patti Coblentz |
Where was it?
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- Nikki McDonald Contact Nikki McDonald Nikki McDonald's Gallery |
This is really ridiculous. What are they going to do when the Finalists come out and people know they have finalists but cannot find them on the pages? Or winners on the Winners pages? This aspect of the ad problem really needs to be addressed and not by removing threads every time someone starts one. I really do not understand BP's silence on this issue.
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Carol Teal |
I have not checked the finliast/winners pages yet, but did anyone notice that a recent entry is no longer covered by an ad? At the top of the page, it says 1-11 and when I count the photos, there are 11 showing. Also I watched and no photo emerged from behind the ad. So I assume this has been fixed on the finalists pages too. Now why BP chose to ignore this thread and even worse, remove it, is beyond me.
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- Nancyj E. Hovey Contact Nancyj E. Hovey Nancyj E. Hovey's Gallery |
Yesterday, I entered my tornado image, and watched it hide behind, and come back out from under the add, saddly. 8o( (contest page)
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- Nancyj E. Hovey Contact Nancyj E. Hovey Nancyj E. Hovey's Gallery |
Yes, I agree with Carol, there are 11 photos showing now. Doesn't look like any hide behind the add now. YEAH, for BP...thanks BP for the correction! 8o)
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