 Mary |
Amateur needs Help with Wedding I have been suckered into shoot a wedding next weekend by my boyfriends cousin. They are trying to cut cost (there 2nd marriage)...I reluntantly said yes, but have never shot a wedding before and really need to some quick tips. I have a Nikon N2020 with a Vivitar AF 100-300mm 1:5.6-6.7 lens and 50mm 1:1.8 lens. I also have a Vivitar Electronic Flash(2000) Automatic. I plan on using 800 speed film. I guess my main question is which is the best way to handle the shoot with the equipment I have? Do I set the camera on automatic or should I choose a different setting? The wedding will be in a church with late afternoon lighting. My last shoot of this nature was a 50th wedding anniversary and although the pics were good they had that yellow cast to the pictures due to the fluorecent lighting. Any and all tips appreciated as I am really clueless. Thanks!
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Jeff S. Kennedy |
I am going to assume that you don't want to make any major purchases for the wedding in terms of equipment so I will keep any additional equipment suggestions to a minimum. The one thing I will suggest if you don't already have one is a flash bracket preferably one that gets the flash higher above the camera. Having the flash high will eliminate shadows. Moving it farther from the lens axis will eliminate red eye. So even a bracket that moves the flash off to the side will help. Some sort of bounce attachment would be nice as well to soften and spread the light more. I would practice with this before the wedding if you have time. Drag you shutter when you can to give exposure to the background. This means using a slow shutter speed in conjunction with your flash to let the ambient light record on your film. To do this simply meter the light in the church at whatever f-stop you are going to set your flash. The resulting shutter speed is what you will set your camera to. You may end up with a shutter speed of 1/15 for expample. The flash will freeze action. You might want a tripod to keep background blur to a minimum. But sometimes background blur makes for a cool effect. You will need to find out if they will allow flash during the ceremony. As far as the lens I would probably stick with the 50mm for much of the indoor stuff. Your zoom is pretty slow and you may not be able to get enough light on the b&g. Are you taking formals of the b&g? I would use the afternoon sun as much as possible rather than the flash. I would also pose the groups in the natural light as well. Use a tripod. For the natural light shots I wouldn't use a film faster than 400. As a general rule use the natural light whenever you can. Have you considered using b&w? You don't have to worry about color casts and b&w photojournalistic shots are very popular these days.
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Mary |
Thanks Jeff....I do not have a flash bracket but know of someone that has which I can borrow. My flash that I have is very basic and doesn't even have a guide to set my flash for 800 speed film. My guess would be a 5.6 or 4 f-stop. My flash has a manual setting and then two other settings, one for 14 feet and the other 28 feet. Which of these would be the best to use? If I understand you correctly, I should set my F-stop on my camera say to 5.6 based on the flash guide setting, then use my light meter in my camera based on the lighting in the church, and set my shutter speed to correspond to this reading? Keep in mind, I am use to having my camera on "Automatic" and not using different shutter speeds. Is it still possible for me to use the "automatic" feature with my flash and not worry about all these settings or is the way you suggested more full proof? Like I originally said, I am an amateur! If I am not able to use a flash in the church, what do you suggest I do? I appreciate any and all help!
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Jeff S. Kennedy |
Mary, since the wedding is so close I would say to do what you are most comfortable with. If you have shot with that flash and film combination in the past and used Auto mode then I would stick with it. A wedding is no time to be experimenting. If you have time this week you might experiment with the equipment and see if you can get decent results. I'm guessing that your flash has a scale that goes up to ISO 400. All you have to remember is that if you are using 800 (which is not necessary IMO) that when the flash indicates an f-stop you can stop down one more f-stop. For example if your flash indicates f5.6 for ISO 400 film you can shoot it at f8 with ISO 800 film. I'm really not familiar with your particular flash so I don't think I can give you specific advice on setting, sorry. " If I understand you correctly, I should set my F-stop on my camera say to 5.6 based on the flash guide setting, then use my light meter in my camera based on the lighting in the church, and set my shutter speed to correspond to this reading?" - Correct. This will allow the light in the church to record in balance to your flash. It eliminates those flash pictures I'm sure you've seen where the subject is lit but everything else is black. " Is it still possible for me to use the "automatic" feature with my flash and not worry about all these settings or is the way you suggested more full proof? " As I said I'm not familiar with your specific equipment so its tough to say. My guess would be that your camera will try to override your shutter speed and set it at whatever the maximum sync speed is. So I would load up some film and practice on a few rolls and try to get comfortable with a technique before the actual wedding day. Go out today and practice on a roll or two under similar conditions to what the wedding will be and get the stuff processed at a one hour lab and see what kind of results you get. Try to use a tripod and try some of the 800 speed film as well as the 400 and see what you like. Good luck and if you have any more questions feel free to email me or post a response here. Let me know how it all turns out. Jeff.
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Mary |
Jeff, I took a test roll late yesterday and going to get developed this morning. I realized that I have been setting my camera on "A" which I think now is the "aperture priority" instead of automatic. I also have,in addition on my camera, of course the different shutter speeds, and the settings "P", "P DUAL" and "P Hi". Would this stand for Program? DO you have any idea how I woould use these in conjuction with the flash. I also used these in my test roll. These modes seemed to make more sense in metering than the "A" position which would not meter at all. The B&G also went out and purchased my film, Kodak Max ISO 800/30...will this be a good film to use? Thanks again for all your help. I can email you separately but I was not sure how to locate your email address.
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Jeff S. Kennedy |
I don't speak Nikonese so I can't be sure. I suppose A could mean aperture priority. P usually does imply Program. What the other P modes are I don't know. Do you still have the manual for the camera? Kodak Max 800 would not be my first choice but it doesn't really sound like you have a choice so it will work. Maybe someone else on this forum will be more familiar with your camera and can give you some specific advice. You might even try posting a question on photo.net (sorry Jim). There may be more experienced Nikon users there.
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Mary |
Jeff...just got my film back and would you believe every single picture I tested turned out well....go figure. I don't feel so lost afterall! Unfotunately, I do not have the manual. I used the "P" mode on most of the ones and they all had good exposure and good depth of field, so I think that will be the way I will go. What would have been your film choice? Appreciate your assistance!!
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Jeff S. Kennedy |
Great! I'm glad to hear it. The main thing is that you're comfortable with what you are doing before you go in and shoot the wedding. I use Kodak Portra 400VC (160 for outdoor stuff and formals).
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John A. Lind |
Mary, In addition to what Jeff has provided, see also this previous thread and the link I provided there to an on-line tutorial for "amateurs" shooting weddings. Note that the tutorial presumes more preparation time, but suggest you read through it anyway and pull what you can from it with the time you have (it's about 90% complete now): http://www.betterphoto.com/forms/qnaDetail.php?threadID=1931 http://johnlind.tripod.com/wedding/ Excellent that you're testing film and other things beforehand!! There was another thread about wedding/portrait films here: Given the flash and lens speed combinations you have, I (like Jeff) suggest ISO 400, and will second his recommendation for Portra 400VC with flash indoors. You can use 160VC outdoors where there's enough light without flash. Try to do any any people shooting in open shade (the shady side of a building under open sky; not under a tree). If you do that, try to keep the shaded building side in the background, not a very bright open space directly lit by sunlight. The object is to keep people from squinting from direct sunlight. Good luck with your wedding!! -- John
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Mary |
John, thanks for a wonderful link on amateur wedding photography!!! Just what I needed...however, I do have a few more questions, will I be OK using the Kodak ISO 800 speed film instead of your suggested film ? Also, how expensive are the flash brackets/handles? Is it appropriate to stand behind the minister and in the asles taking pictures of the bride....where are the right places to stand? I appreciate all your assistance.
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John A. Lind |
Mary, Film Speed, Lens Aperture and Flash Guide Number: Flash Brackets/Handles: Points of View: "More at 11:00" (actually should be a little earlier than the news). -- John
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John A. Lind |
Mary, As promised a second posting . . . First, about the film speed recommended: Next, Points of View: Also when doing your reconnaisance, look at the entrance the bride will use into the sanctuary. Frame it as if she and her escort (father ??) are staged there just before they enter. Then count how many rows of pews are between you and the entrance. This allows you to position yourself very quickly. Do the same when they are at the altar and count how many rows back you are from the front. Don't get so wrapped up trying to photograph flower girls and bridesmaids entering that you blow the bride entering. Forget getting the maid of honor entering if necessary to get the bride (this is a split second decision at the time if you are trying to get all of them). The shot of the bride staged at the entrance is your "safety shot," then back up quickly about six to eight rows of pews and shoot them again as they come into focus, and do it again if you have enough time. Then stand and back up against the entrance to a pew to let them pass. After that, move up to the number of rows you counted from the front and shoot the escort (father ??) handing her off at the front . . . usually it's with a kiss or at least a hug. If the minister bans flash during the ceremony, negotiate to get at least these and "The Kiss" of the bride and groom at the end. As with the entry, don't get so wrapped up in photographing the ceremony that you fail to position yourself in the aisle for "The Kiss" near the end of the ceremony. Stop shooting about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way through and stage yourself for it in the aisle. Then, as the bride and groom start down the aisle, take one "safety shot" just before they start to move and back up as you did before when the bride entered. The same applies to the bride and groom leaving the church. You want to exit about 30 seconds before they do . . . down through the middle of those waiting for them . . . and don't let anyone close in in front of you. I arrange to give them a "high sign" for when I'm in position. Take another "safety shot" just as they emerge into full daylight at the entrance (sometimes there's a canopy over the door). Then back up about 10 feet (look over your shoulder to see where you're going) and shoot it again. Usually the church exit is very quick because they're being deluged with soap bubbles, bird seed, rose petals or whatever it is that's currently in vogue. Immediately afterward, check your camera and especially the lens to clean it off (if necessary). I keep a lens cloth in my pocket (inside a small baggie) for the soap bubbles which cannot be dusted off the front of a lens like bird seed can. (more to come) -- John
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John A. Lind |
Mary, More tips: At the reception, try to position yourself enough to the side of the cake cutting so you can see the knife, but stay at least slightly in front of the bride and groom; don't get behind them. Position the bride closest to you (she's usually shorter than the groom) and stagger them slightly to keep her face from obscuring the front of the groom's. Ask them to just put the knife into the cake and stop for about thirty seconds while you take two or three shots. Then let them continue. For throwing garter and bouquet, position yourself to the side so the distance is the same between you and the bride/groom and the center of the group trying to catch it. Press the shutter release as soon as you see the arm move. Then swing quickly and press it again just as you see the garter/bouquet start downward toward them. Your reaction time and the camera delay (moving the mirror out of the way) requires a slight lead. Timing your shots like this compensates some for these delays in the shutter actually travelling. The "safety shots" for these are photgraphing an informal portrait of the bride with the woman who caught the bouquet, and the groom with the man who caught the garter, just afterward. Don't try to shoot the entire "must have" list. It is intended to include the range of all possible types of photos people like, but not to be a list of everything that must be done for every wedding. Most weddings would shoot about 1/3 to 2/3 of that list. That's why there are check boxes to choose what is desired. Batteries: Last, a suggestion about which lens to use: Hope this helps you with some tips and ideas,
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Mary |
Thanks SO much John....you have been a life saver for me! (Jeff, you too) This was exactly what I needed as I wasn't sure what the proper place was for the photographer. My last minute question is this...Should I set my f-stop on my camera to 5.6 based on the flash guide, then use my light meter on the camera to set my shutter speed or would you use the "Program" mode and set the f-stop to 5.6? I noticed on my test roll, when I manually set the shutter speed to 1/8, 1/15 and 1/30, all the pictures were saturated with more color and a higher depth of field then with Program, although the "Program" pictures were OK. I also took pictures last night at rehearsal which were fair to good. The ones I tried without a flash were clear but a little on the dark side with the Program mode. How do you suggest setting the camera without the flash? Guess I am getting the latest minute jitters. I may not hear back unitl after the wedding but would still appreciate an answer. I will let you know how it all turns out! Again thanks for your assistance !
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John A. Lind |
Mary, First, I would put more confidence in what your experiments have produced and what you feel confident with. When using flash, _ensure_ your shutter speed is at or longer than the Nikon's 2020's flash X-sync shutter speed. The Vivitar 2000 is not a "dedicated" flash which means your Nikon camera body cannot control the Vivitar's light output using the camera body's internal TTL metering. The flash must use its own small sensor (on its front) to control its light output. All your Nikon body can do is trigger it. You should set both shutter speed and lens aperture manually. If 1/30th is working well, use it as Jeff suggested and for the reasons he gave. I would be reluctant to go slower than that. Set the lens aperture to the one shown on the back of the flash for your film speed. (Use the f/5.6 setting if that's possible as I mentioned before.) I don't believe using "Program Mode" will work very well with this type of flash setup. The reason is the Program attempts to set both shutter speed and lens aperture according to a program embedded in the camera electronics. For the "average" church interior: YMMV (your mileage may vary) with these and you should check exposure with a light meter! Church interior light levels during the day can vary greatly depending on how much daylight is allowed in through the windows. BTW, all the "P" settings are "Program" modes. The "A" is "Aperture priority" which allows you to set the aperture and the camera sets the shutter speed. You should be manually setting both shutter speed and lens aperture when using the Vivitar 2000 flash. If I understand correctly what you were doing with setting the different shutter speeds (1/8, 1/15, etc.), it sounds like you were setting both shutter and aperture manually. -- John
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Mary |
John/Jeff, I wanted to thnak you both again for all of your beneficial information. The final results are in! I took 7 rolls of film, using the 800 ISO. Out of 170 prints, (some had 25 exp)I only had to discard 14 pictures total. Of those 14 pics, 4- forgot flash and were yellow or under exposed, 1-out of focus, 7-were eyes closed, bad composition or viewpoint and 2-25th pics(not full pics). I only had three pictures in the entire bunch with red eye and those were not glaring so I included them in their proofs. I had some shadowing based on positioning of my flash, but they were not that noticiable or distracting from the pictures. As you can see, most of the pictures were exposed and composed properly and I am highly estatic! Now you wonder what I did....I set my f-stop to 5.6 based on my flash meter chart, and manually set my shutter speed based on my cameras light meter. I also manually focused. I kinda cheated some as I decided as a backup, I would put my point and shoot in a fanny back along with my spare batteries and film and used three of the seven rolls in my point and shoot. After labeling the negatives and pics and placing them in a album, its is a nice mixture and I have some incredible pics with my 35mm SLR! The wedding was uneventful and I didn't miss any important shots...even got the bride coming to the church in the limo and the wedding license being signed by the elder grandfather! I am very proud of my accomplishment and owe alot to you guys, and of course a little on my love and talent of photography! Thanks so much!!
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Jeff S. Kennedy |
That's great Mary. It's nice to hear how these things work out. I'm glad it went well. Sounds like you're ready to turn pro! Glad I could be of some assistance.
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