 Tonya Cozart |
Wedding Photography: No Photos During Ceremony? I have a wedding next weekend, and pastor has said "No photography" during ceremony. So I am just curious as to how much of it I should stage afterwards. We only have about an hour to an hour and a half afterwards, and we are doing bride and groom alone and with party and family then as well. I have asked the bride to think about what the important shots to her are, and I will think also, but I don't want to leave something out. Thanks
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Liza M. Franco |
Tonya, just a quick thought. I've had more and more couples liking the idea of shooting as many photos as possible before the wedding. What I now do is offer to do the shots of the groom and his side of the wedding party. Scoot them out. Bring in the bride and her side of the wedding party do their shots. Bring the guys back, except the groom, and do any shots of the bride with the groomsmen or bridesmaids coupled with groomsmen, ring bearer and flower girl, etc. Bride and her parents/siblings. Groom and parents/siblings. Anything that can be shot ahead of time so that the bride and groom can get to their guests and the reception sooner. So far, this has been a huge success. It requires everyone to be at the church and ready a little bit earlier, but it gets it all done quicker and more smoothly, and the bride and groom don't get as stressed. This will leave time for re-enactment shots and then all the typical group shots. Hope this helps a little.
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x |
If just one guest pops up and shoots a point-and-shoot with flash, game's on and I ignore what the pastor, priest, or other clergy wants. My allegiance is to my client, not to the clergy. I am respectful, but my respect wears thin when the rules only apply to the PROFESSIONAL photographers.
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John G. Clifford Jr |
Maybe the pastor objects to the disturbance of flash photography. What if you sat in the back, used a long lens and natural light, and took pictures? Would he have a problem with that? It would also let you get a good picture of the bride and groom walking down the aisle together after the ceremony.
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Tonya Cozart |
I wondered the same things myself. I asked the bride if it was NONE or just flash and she said none. Go figure. I may be prepared to shoot if someone else goes to taking them, though. I guess I will see how I feel about that, but I thought of it, too. Hey Liza, good suggestion on the staged photos. I did not mention it, but I will have 1 to 2 hours before the ceremony for photos, I will get everything in that I can without the bride and groom together, then after I will shoot them together alone and then with party and families. I am just wondering about any photos we need to re-create, like the bride being given away (yes!) and "the kiss" ... but how far do you go at re-creating these?
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Christopher A. Vedros |
Is this common? I've never attended a wedding where there was no photography during the ceremony. I've seen a few photographers who will turn off their flash during the ceremony. But this just seems extreme.
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x |
Chris, it's not common, but it does happen. Happened to me last year. It was ridiculous. But, Tonya, don't take the bride's word for it; call the place and have a chat with the clergy about it. I can often turn the hard-nosed types into seeing it my way. The clergy has problems these days with holding that strong of a line. How many brides are going to book them if they act that way? Weddings bring in big money for the churches, etc. Once word gets out that they are that strict, no one will want to get married there. Jerry
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- Donna K. Kilcher Contact Donna K. Kilcher Donna K. Kilcher's Gallery |
Why not ask the bride her opinion? She knew about the rule when she planned her wedding there. She might agree with the clergy. Another thought is to also talk to the clergy. If you ignore the rule, as Jerry suggests, you may not get the chance to go back to a wedding at that church.
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Justin G. |
Also it depends on what type of camera you have. If it's quiet enough, how's he/she to hear you in the back like someone else mentioned? I had an Elan and that was deadly quiet. Many times I'd shoot Ashley from 7-8 feet away, and she couldn't hear the shutter or film advance. Be respectful, obviously, but you gotta warn the bride that her pics might not hold that same feeling as the real ceremony. No matter how good you are, re-enacting a scene just won't have that same feeling. I'm not saying don't do it, by all means DO, but just warn the bride that this is gonna be a hard feat. Have fun and good luck!
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Alicia Steinmann |
Tonya, I did a wedding in September, and another one last weekend (same church) where the pastor requested no photos be taken during the ceremony. He felt it was distracting. I asked him if he would be agreeable if I promised to be discreet & turn off my flash--he said yes, so I spent the ceremony taking available light shots from the balcony--they turned out very nicely. I was able to use flash for the shots of the wedding party coming down the aisle, just not during the actual ceremony. You should definitely talk to whoever is officiating in person, and see if they are negotiable. I also agree with Justin--you can recreate those shots (beautifully), but it's just not the same as capturing the real moment.
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Craig Paulsen |
I had a wedding at one of the five best hotels in our area. They even built a chapel on the property to bring in more revenue. Well the pastor told me to respect the sacred area. So I used my long lens. It was a small chapel 50seated and 25 standing. It was so queit that you could hear my shutter. I didn't go behind them or anywhere within 20ft of them. Then 3/4 of the way through the ceremony the pastor looks over at me and says " excuse me". I couldn't believe it, so I walked to the very back and only shot the kiss and them walking out. When we went back into the Church to re-inact the ring exchange, the pastor told me as he walked out that my welcome was worn. I talked to the manager the next day and she said not to worry about it. The bride and family were on my side and were very unhappy with the situation. Then about a month later a bride calls me and says she wants to book me, but the hotel say thats I'm not allowed to shoot their anymore. So I grew wise to the no photos during the ceremony and now my assistant and I go as guest.
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Justin G. |
I guess then tough luck for the bride, cuz she ain't gettin no pics!
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Thea Menagh |
Many, especially Catholic churches in Toronto, Ontario do not permit photography during the actual ceremony. The interpretation of "ceremony" can be different. I've found in speaking beforehand with many priests that they simply don't want a photographer standing between them and the bride-and-groom when they're exchanging rings & vows! I spoke with one priest who'd actually been knocked over!! During communion and prayers, photography is most often not permitted. My first question when first meeting with the couple is ... is there a balcony in the church. If so, no problem! Meeting beforehand with the priest, I've found, most often does not help matters. The only time when I've shot throughout is at those weddings which are outdoors, in hotel chapels, and other locations where a licensed officiant is performing the ceremony - rather than a priest, rabbi, or other seriously committed person who feels nothing desecrates the church more than flash bulbs and 'movement' when all should be still and observant. I put the onus on the couple and ask them to check with the officiant to see if there are any restrictions of which I should be aware. I always feel it's better they hear the details themselves well ahead of time. Years ago, I found some couples didn't know until the rehearsal that there was no photography allowed in that particular church. Yes ... take lots of photographs of everyone coming up the aisle and everyone coming back down the aisle .. because everyone's paired differently at both times ... which makes different photos!! And be grateful you're not a woman at a Bar Mitzvah in a synagogue. Now there's a challenge!! Been there - done that - will not do it again! Have a great day, everyone.
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Bret Tate |
I have been doing wedding jobs for many years. I have always tried to do as many of the formal shots before the ceremony as possible (everything except shots with the bride & groom together). Talk to the bride & groom about this. They will very likely be receptive to this approach. I also script all of my shots and locations so I can work quickly without missing any. Talk to the church officials regarding any photo restrictions. ALWAYS respect their wishes - no matter what. You are the pro, the attendees aren't. It is your reputation and you will most likely be doing more events in that church. I have seen too many photographers treat wedding ceremonies like their personal photo shoot. It is a sacred ceremony not a photo op. If your reputation is good you will get more and more cooperation from the church. The no photos during ceremony policy may be a reaction to an intrusive photographer in the past. As far as recreating shots that were missed - Ask the bride & groom which shots are important for them to have and get those. I hope that this helps. I am very willing to give you any information that I have.
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Patricia A. Cale |
I shot my daughter's wedding this past August. The church had a wedding planner helping us at the rehearsal and day of the wedding. My daughter was given a piece of paper stating the photography rules earlier. It said no flash photography. I was planning on staying in back of church using a telephoto lens on a tripod to get some shots during the ceremony. At the rehearsal, the planner told me that I could go anywhere to take photos during the ceremony, except the altar! Since I was shooting with a Canon 20D, I upped the ISO to 800 and was able to get a lot of shots during the ceremony. I agree that it is hard to recreate these shots. You miss the looks on the bride and groom's faces...those cannot be recreated. I would check with the church. Maybe the bride misunderstood their rules.
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- Donna K. Kilcher Contact Donna K. Kilcher Donna K. Kilcher's Gallery |
Great advice Bret! The wedding photographer is the professional and should act like one. If the Bride or Groom attend the church where the wedding is they most likely know the rule in advance. If not they still chose the location and have been informed of the rule and could choose to go somewhere else to have the ceremony
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Donna A. Brunet |
It may not just be the minister's personal opinion. I was a bridesmaid at a church in a Presbyterian wedding (about 20 years ago) and, as I understood it, the church's position was that the wedding was a sacred religious ceremony and they thought it was disrespectful to take photographs during it. If that's the case, the bride or her parents may not appreciate the photographer they are paying deciding to shoot anyway because "someone else started it." The photographer at the wedding I was in told us he liked it because he got to see everything that was happening during the actual ceremony. When it was over, he asked everyone to remain in their seats and the entire bridal party to move back to their original positions and we basically did a fast run-through of the entire wedding again. He didn't run the risk of missing any shots or only having 1 chance at something. The photographer at my wedding missed a shot of 1 of my bridesmaids coming up the aisle - I can't remember if there was a flash problem or he had to change a roll of film.
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Robert Brosnan |
I recently had the same problem. The pastor told me I could shoot from either side during the service. Then during the service the church lady came up behind me and dragged me to the back of the church. (causing a much bigger scene then my shooting w/o flash) Later I was told by the brides mom that they call her the "church nazi". I agree that you only get the facial expressions while its actually happening. You can stage all you want but emotions can't be faked. Always attend the rehearsal and speak with the clergy to get the rules. I too missed the picture of the parents walking the bride down the aisle, due to flash failure. Cameras are mechanical devices and can and do act up. At least with digital you can see the results and reshoot if possible.
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Tonya Cozart |
I stopped getting my email alerts for this thread, glad I came and checked it, you guys have offered up lots of personal experiance and advice, thanks so much. I think I will talk to the minister, he may not care if I stay unobtrusive...which is the stance I take anyway. Personally, I think it takes away from the ceremony to see the photographer milling all around the "intimate area" of the wedding, so I just get what shots I can without interfereing, so he may not be opposed to that. Thanks so much to all of you... I love this site!
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Dee Augustine |
I have NEVER ran into this probelm before about not shooting during the ceramony, those are the most personal shots to say the least, the tears the laughter the lighting of the candles the communion, I would be really disapointed if I was told NOT to shoot during the ceramony. I would talk to the minister and try to talk him into letting you do the ceramony due to this is so touching of a moment, Iv always been told go where you need to go. I move all around them in the faces of them how can you NOT shoot this special moment. I have to say WOW to this whole situation, its their wedding not his.
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x |
This does happen, but it is becoming less common. The reason is usually due to a bad experience with an idiot photographer, who during the ceremony has to get in-between the couple, on his/her back, shooting up, in order to get a cool perspective or something. It is a shame, but it is a situation of photographers working for themselves with little regard for the couple or the church. This is why many churches just say no. I don't actually blame them too much. However, they need to remember that policies like that will keep many brides away. the really, really, really bad part of all this is that the churches USUALLY don't tell the brides this bit of info when they book the place. And, they call me practically in tears. I had one tell me, 'just shoot anyway, what are they going to do, arrest you?" I explained that I can't really do that, but I will do everything I can. Usually talking to the clergy, like I said before, goes a long way. Professionals talk to them and explain what they are planning to do. Non-pros don't know what to say or how to approach it, and the clergy talk to alot of us, and can tell the difference. But, if the rule is no photography, you kind of have to respect that. However, as I said before, if I 25 guests popping up and snapping shots using flash, then I am going to do it too. Regardless of the rules. Jerry
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Dee Augustine |
Jerry Good point. Im going to be shooting my daughters wedding in Sept. and I gotta tell ya if they tell me I cant go up on the altar where they are I might a huge problem with that, as said before yo cant reinact that moment at all. I just am trying to figure out how Im going to shoot her wedding and be in some of the photos :( I just feel if someone isnt doing what I wanted to do I might wanna grab the camera from them,,,LOL,,,joke,, But I really feel I need to do this due to I have had lots of compliments on how I have the eye when it comes to a wedding, but thank God I have never ran across the point where I cant be up there, and actually if it was the bride and groom telling me that than your talking about a whole different situation in that aspect :) I just did a wedding on Saturday and I was all over the alter and they loved it :) Thanks for the reply. Dee
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Patricia A. Cale |
Dee, I shot my daughter's wedding this past August. One reason was that my oldest daughter said my pictures were better than any other photographers'. I thoroughly enjoyed doing it and felt like I was involved in every aspect of their big day. When there were shots that I needed to be in, I had someone take the shot. Or, you could put the camera on a tripod and use the self-timer or remote cable release. But, you could really tell the difference in the shots I took and those taken by someone else. But, they are all acceptable. At the church my daughter was married in, I was not able to go on the altar. However, many of the shots were able to be captured from the center aisle, especially when the bride and groom were looking at each other, and the altar made a nice background for these shots. The priest didn't say anything to me afterwards, so I figured I followed their rules pretty well. One reason to follow the rules is that you never know if you will have to shoot another wedding there. It pays to have a good relationship with the minister and other church people. Pat
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x |
Dee, I NEVER go on the alter. Even if they say I can. What you said is the behavior I am talking about. The alter is sacred, and whatever your beleifs are, you have to respect theirs. I NEVER go on the alter even when allowed. I think it is too disruptive for everyone. Just stand back and get your shots. Stand to the side, out of view of everyone, and get your shots. But, certianly don't go right up on the alter. It is intinidating for the couple, it is in the way of the clergy, and it pulls the attention of the audience away from the ceremony and onto you. Don't do it. What you want to do is be quiet as a mouse, out of site, and capture the moments as they occur naturally. That is beautiful. Camera aware moments are not usually beautiful. They can be humorous, but rarely beautiful. They best ones are natural and almost accidental.
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Kerry L. Walker |
I shot my first wedding in 1967 and the only time I ever went up on the alter during a wedding was in 1975 - when I got married.
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Bret Tate |
Although I disagree with Jerry as far as shooting if others start when it is forbidden, I am in COMPLETE agreement with Jerry and Kerry when it comes to photographing from the altar. The altar (and the ceremony) is sacred. We should not try to turn it into some sort of media event. I inform my clients that I will not photograph from the altar.
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Dee Augustine |
Jerry Thats what makes us ALL different in shooting, I for one will do as the bride and groom request and if thats going onto the altar their wish is my command, so as far as it being a behavior promblem I think its making them happy. Of course its THEIR day not anyone elses day :) all of my clients have told me to move ALL over the place, and the preacher agreed on every wedding I have done. The people need to watch who they came to see get married in my opinion and not what I am doing. I again do what the bride and groom want and in everytime they wanted me up on the altar, and low and behold they loved my work. So guess were all different arent we? On that note I DONT agree with you at all. But thanks anyway :)
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Alisha L. Ekstrom |
Hi Tonya!!! I would just go with Liza's advice & do what you can before the wedding & after the wedding. Being from Utah & all the LDS religion there are NO CAMERA'S of any sorts allowed in the LDS Temple churches...BEING from Colorado I thought that was strange when I photographed a Salt Lake Temple wedding. BUT those are the rules & you have to abide them. Just do what you can & talk with the bride on what's important to her!!! GOOD LUCK!!!!
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x |
Cool Dee. Keep it up. But, for the most part, that is considered bad taste by most professional photographers in the wedding business. That doesn't mean it's wrong. And I'm not critizing at all. I'm just simply letting you know that's it's kind of like sneezing at the dinner table and not covering your mouth because your mom never taught you to, and therefore, you have no issue with it. Cheers,
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Maria Melnyk |
OK; I'm gonna put my two cents in here as well. My shooting partner and I do not approve of churches that don't allow brides to have outstanding photographic memories of the most loving and sacred day of their lives. We think that this is a devilish, selfish attitude, rules made by priests who themselves can't have these kind of photographs because of their vows of celebacy. Fortunately for our own weddings, we belong to the Eastern Catholic Church where there are NO restrictions. Here's how we have dealt with photography restrictions in other churches: 1. When the bride books us for her wedding, we show her our samples once again and ask if her church will allow us to take the kind of photographs she fell in love with and booked us to do in the first place. If not, we tell her to either talk to the priest and get "special permission" for her wedding, or to find another church. This has worked every time since we started doing it. And for those brides who say they don't care, we ask them to re-read the part in our contract about not being responsible for lack of photographs or lack of close-ups due to church restrictions. 2. I've mentioned this one on "Better Photo" before, so I apologize for those of you re-reading this one, but we had one bride that showed us a picture of Grace Kelly's wedding to Prince Rainier, and asked us to talk to the priest so that she can have a picture like that. (It's a frontal close-up of them kneeling in the church, for those of you who may have seen it.) It worked. We begged, and it worked. We got our shots and the bride loved us for it! 3. When we just don't feel like "dealing with it", one of us pretends to be a guest, stands in the pews with the real guests, and shoots to his or her heart's content. The other one of us is being the poor professional who is not allowed to get any "good" shots. Between the two of us we get a nice variety. 4. Forget about re-creating afterwards. Not only do you not get those great emotional expressions, but often times when we've tried recreating, say, a ring exchange, we get the bride & groom looking into the camera and smiling. They don't "get it" that we're trying to re-create something as if it were actually taking place. Finally, we're both saddened by the number of brides and grooms that choose to get married at the reception hall instead where they won't be bothered with any restrictions, and can get the kind of shots they want. Therefore, we are taking a great step. We are in the process of writing a letter to the Archdiocese of a major U.S. city we've worked in before (I won't say yet which one), and we are explaining to the Cardinal why we feel that churches should drop these unnecessary restrictions. Advice to brides: Don't just "take it." Speak to your churches. Nicely, but speak up. That way you won't get a lump in your throat when you see what lovely photos your friend got at her wedding because she chose another church.
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Jennifer W |
"We think that this is a devilish, selfish attitude, rules made by priests who themselves can't have these kind of photographs because of their vows of celebacy" !!!! What about those brides who **AGREE** with the rule and who think the ceremony is about more than the pictures to have afterwards? That it is a sacred time not to be interrupted by flashes and intruding photographers? No way would I have let my photographer on the altar with me (and I am a photography NUT) had I been married inside a church. I was married outside by a pastor, but still the photographer kept her distance and no one knew she was there. All but two or three of my ceremony photos are of the whole scene, and those two or three must have been taken with an extremely long lens.
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Jennifer W |
and by ceremony, I mean, the parts from "you may be seated" to "it is my pleasure to introduce" ... not the walking in and the walking out parts
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Patricia A. Cale |
Well said, Jennifer and Jerry. I believe in following rules and guidelines. That becomes a challenge to get good shots working within those rules. And, good shots can be taken this way. Most brides pick a church because it is their family church. Why should they get married elsewhere just because of photo rules. If a flash is used, it can blind the priest or minister. A good wedding photographer is considerate of every one taking part in the wedding, not just the bride and groom. I have read many books by photographers whose images are beautiful and creative. Many said that the wedding party and guests did not even realize they were taking photos during the ceremony. They were discreet and stayed out of the way, but got wonderful images. With today's telephoto and zoom lenses, we don't have to get in our subject's face to get a good close up.
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Dee Augustine |
VERY WELL SAID MARIA ,,,,,Thank You
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Dee Augustine |
Pat Alls Im saying is if the bride & groom wants the photographer on the altar than why not have her wishes come true, BUT if the minister says no than thats fine too. Alls I was saying was make the couple happy. And I have done so each time!
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x |
Dee, if that's what your clients want and it's OK with the clergy, then there's no problem. I'm talking about when the clergy says no, and you say, 'I don't care what they think, I work for my client, not this place'. While there is an element to truth to that, it's also a small world. If you keep that kind of thing up, eventually, there will be venues and churches that wont let you in the door. The wedding world is a small, small world.
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Patricia A. Cale |
Dee: I agree you should try to make the bride and groom happy. But, sometimes you have to make exceptions to what they want. My daughter was not upset when she was told no flash photography during the ceremony. She knew I would be in back of church with a tripod and 300mm lens. But, thanks to the church lady, I was able to move around more, but not on the altar. Many of my shots were taken from a side aisle where I didn't get in anyone's way. Everyone was pleased with those shots. I was able to get emotional shots during the ceremony. The important shots to everyone involved were the after church shots -- indoor and outdoor portraits, and the reception shots. Jerry is right about the wedding world being very small. It pays to keep on the good side of those in charge. You always have to remember there could be future jobs in that church. Dee, I think you will be able to get wonderful shots regardless of the rules the church has. That's why each wedding you shoot is so different from the rest. And it challenges you to be creative with each wedding. That's what makes photography fun and addictive!!
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
"If just one guest pops up and shoots a point-and-shoot with flash, game's on and I ignore what the pastor, priest, or other clergy wants. My allegiance is to my client, not to the clergy. I am respectful, but my respect wears thin when the rules only apply to the PROFESSIONAL photographers" I second what Jerry's saying! The bride and groom WANT pics of the ceremony to remember what happened on the special day. Who cares what the clergy says? Be respectful, dont get too close and maybe dont take "head on" shots so's not to "blind" the clergy. But I would still use flash, take shots and stay out of the way! Im no pro at all but if I was getting married again and the priest said no photos, i'd say, "no wedding...here" and go and get myself a JP to do it.
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Dee Augustine |
Hi Pat Very good point, I guess I will have to try and shoot the next wedding from the side and not be on the altar and see how it works out for me. We have to make everyone happy is the point, and in all mine they have asked me to move all over the place and even on the altar, so again I will try your suggestion in trying to shoot from different possitions around the altar instead of being on the altar, very well taken thank you :)
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Dee Augustine |
Jerry As I said if the pastor said no on the altar than thats what would happen I wouldnt disrespect what he wanted.Alls Im really saying is weddings and all weddings are different in the way everyone wants the wedding shot, and to me I have never ran into this problem so I really havent had to deal with it at all. Every wedding I have done they wanted me up there and the pastor agreed with what they wanted. Its a very special day for them and what they want is what they get. But if I was told no, then sure I wouldnt like it but I would do as I was told. Hey its just another challenge in my opinion and I love a good challenge :)and Im no pro either.
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Dee Augustine |
Craig Very good point is I may say so myself, its the clients we have to perform for! And Im not PROFESSIONAL either, I have just been told alot of people love the way I have shot the wedding I have done, the bottom line. :) Thanks Craig
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Bret Tate |
I think that Craig's response gets to the heart of the issue. What is more important to the bride & groom? Is it their faith and their relationship with a particular church or is it the photos? I have never had a couple choose their wedding venue based on photo ops. The choice has always been a matter of their faith and church membership. I have photographed everything from couples married by a JP to very controlled and ritualistic ceremonies. If you disregard the rules to get "the shot", where does it end? Should we ask the priest to move out of the way for a shot? Should we ask the Catholic Church to suspend it's no communion policy for non-Catholics to get a shot? Should the Mormons suspend their Temple rules for us to get a shot? I always honor the wishes of the church officials. I always discuss church policies with the church officials and the couple. I have always been thanked and welcomed back by the church and my clients have been pleased with how smoothly the event was photographed and the shots. I guess out here in Montana we place more value on honoring the sacred and less on getting "the shot". I will end with this question - Would you trespass on to private property because your client wanted a certain shot or would honor the wishes of the property owner and tell the client that you could not do that without the owner's permission?
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x |
Dee, in my area, it's almost just the way it is. I haven't shot in a church yet that has allowed me on the alter. I have done plently of outdoor weddings and such where ther are no rules, and that's totally different. But, I have yet to shoot at a church that allows me on the alter. So, it could be a regional difference. I've done a few weddings where there was absolutely no phtography allowed during the ceremony, no exceptions. And, they make an annoucement beforehand and ask everyone to turn off their cell phones and not take ANY photos. I have a wedding next week at a church that will only allow me to stand outside the doors and shoot in. It's not a large church, but it's a bizarre rule. But, they are very strict about it, as I have had friends who have shot there and have told me that you have to stand 2 feet back from the doors, and there is someone there standing making sure you don't step forward at all. Jerry
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Dee Augustine |
Jerry Thats what Im saying is eveyone and every church I guess is different in how they feel about this whole situation, and by all means Im not going to disresect the wishes of the Pastors. I wouldnt like it but its not about me at all its about the church the bride and groom and all that goes with the rules in each church. Good luck in the wedding you have to shoot outside the door, thats going to be a challenge in my eyes. But again as said before I am certainly no pro at all, Iv only done 8 weddings so far, but I really enjoy it to say the least. I just like to make the couple happy, due to I was a back up in one and I got alot more personal shots than the main one did and truthfully they wanted mine more than hers, and thats not saying Im better than her Im just more personal I guess. And by all means I wouldnt burn my bridges at the church either. :) Dee
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Photos are that bad, yet with some priest all they do is just "reassign" them.
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Maria Melnyk |
No one should ever be allowed in the altar area. I don't know why some of you think that this is a restriction in only certain places; it is and should be a restriction everywhere. When I talk about photography restrictions, I did not refer to being allowed at the altar. This is always a no-no.
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Dee Augustine |
OH WELL I guess thats your opinion, but NOT everyone feels the same.
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Thea Menagh |
Hello, again! I've been watching this thread and find it difficult to believe there are so many photographers out there who don't seem to realize that a church, temple, synagogue, etc. are places of worship. A little respect would be a good thing. The altar is the most sacred area in that house of worship and respect for its 'holy ground' no matter what (if any) religion any of us holds dear. I'm paid to photograph weddings. Nobody could pay me enough to disrespect the house of worship in which the ceremony is taking place. However ... I agree that there are church 'caretakers' who take their jobs a little too seriously, and I, too, have been grabbed by the arm and pulled back from the centre aisle during the ring-exchange portion of the wedding & told to stop photographing. Since I'd spoken to the priest ahead-of-time, I was very firm with the person holding my arm & suggested she LET GO NOW or Father John would hear about the incident & I'd lay assault charges. She retreated quickly! On the other hand, I try to remember not to take myself too seriously, either! It's a job, after all, and I do it the best I can - honestly & with great passion. Have a great day, everybody!!
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Robert Brosnan |
I find it interesting that people would disrespect a house of worship to get a picture. I also would not make a scene if someone was dragging me out of the church. Also as a law enforcement officer, I can tell you Thea M. that assault charges wouldn't stick. You learn to get what you can and live with it. That's just life! Pictures are just a way to record it.
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Maria Melnyk |
Robert - standing in the aisle (or anywhere else, except for the altar), and quietly taking pictures of a couple exchanging rings is NOT disrespecting a house of worship, BUT putting a hand on the photographer and talking at him to stop while the ring exchange is taking place is definitely a sign of disrespect, as well as disrupting during this solemn moment of a couple's first few moments as husband and wife. I am ALWAYS very quiet and discreet during a wedding or any other church ceremony; I do not move during the Gospel reading or during any prayers. But once in my photographic life I was told by a priest to sit down and not photograph the vows. And I had been standing halfway to the back of the church, not even close to that priest. The videographer had to edit that priest's comment out of his video. The bride and groom sent me a letter of apology afterwards. As a former bride myself, it was very exciting to hear that camera clicking during my vows and ring exchange. And the expressions I see on bride's faces when they know I got the shot is priceless. I'm sorry if some of you may disagree with me, but if the photographer is quiet and going about his duties, by no means do I feel that churches should prevent brides and grooms from having some terrific once-in-a-lifetime mementos of the happiest moment of their lives.
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Thea Menagh |
Atta girl, Maria. I'm with you!! One of the best shots I got is the bride giving me the thumbs up when she saw me moving quietly around the side to enable me to photograph her future husband's face as he was about to say, "I do"! And on the other hand ... one priests came up to me after the ceremony, gave me a hug, and said I was the most professional photographer he'd ever had at one of 'his' weddings. That was nice! A little kindness and honest, good intentions go a long way. And if you love photography more than breathing, as I do, you'll go the extra mile to make sure you know what's expected, what's disallowed, and who's in charge in the various areas you'll be working. I always poke my head in the kitchen and thank the staff for the great meal ... after thanking the mother-of-the-bride for allowing me to share it. Respect everyone. Forget nothing. Do more than asked. Enjoy!!
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Brendan Knell |
Robert, I also agree with Maria, that dragging the photographer out would make a much bigger scene than what Thea did. My guess is that Thea quietly said something to the effect of "If you don't get your hands off me, I'm going to charge you with assult." Even if the charges wouldn't stick, I think that they were ment more to just get the person to let go, and lo and behold, it worked.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Anybody think the sacridicity attitude would change if they lost money from weddings going else where so they could get picutres hassel free?
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Dee Augustine |
I would have to agree, dragging the photographer out of the way would sure take away from the wedding party wwatching that special moment instead of someone putting their hands on another person. This sure has turned out to be quit the issue. Good Luck Tanya :)
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Robert Brosnan |
My Point is, You are a guest in someone elses place. Respect is required. If you had read my response from the 7th you would see that I just went through this in October. I was carefully shooting from either side when I was literally pulled out of church by my jacket sleeve. Being a cop for almost 30 years I am trained to not take being manhandled in any way. My first gut reaction was to "cuff her". I am fully in agreement that the best pictures happen while the service is going on. I hope we all don't have to deal with people who limit what we do, but it is bound to happen. Being a professional should always be your goal. Your reputation is what follows you as you go through life. Make it a good one.......
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Tonya Cozart |
Well, I certainly started something here huh! :) Just thought I would let everyone know that I talked to the preacher, thanks to some wonderful advice here, and though he is firm on no pics during the ceremony, he said I could do entrances and exits. So that is cool. At least I will get the Bride and father entrance and husband and wife exit. I am fine with no photos during, I can respect that. I can stage a few, like all of them at the alter, and a kiss, etc. I think it will be fine. Glad all of you joined in....
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Brendan Knell |
Well Robert, when you said, "I also would not make a scene if someone was dragging me out of the church." No offense or anything, but it sounds kind of like you thought Thea was kicking and screaming.
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Thea Menagh |
It'll be fine,Tonya. A little hint ... take a few shots of the front of the church with nobody there! If you get a shot of the couple kissing later on, you can cut-and-paste it! I also always take a few photos of the 'congregation' before the ceremony begins ... from the front and the back ... and especially from the balcony if there is one! A few of the aisle from both front & back can save your life if anyone's blurred as you shoot them coming up the aisle or going down. I blur that and use it as a background for photos of the happy couple and their wedding party! Works really well. Have a good evening, Thea
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Maria Melnyk |
Tonya - please allow me to ask one more question. I'm curious as to why your bride and groom are OK with having no pictures of the ceremony. I mean, why did they agree to have that particular priest marry them? Sure, you can re-stage later, but you'll never capture the most important thing - the emotions. Putting all that aside, see if you can do this: Can you mount a camera on a tripod and fire it with a remote unit? I don't mean a cable release; I mean remote. No one will ever know the camera is taking pictures except you.
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Robert Brosnan |
Brendan, It would seem that if she had time to threaten to have her arrested and tell the priest, while standing center aisle, it was noticed by the guests. At that point it becomes a problem. I think we've beaten this dead horse quite throughly.
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Brendan Knell |
Robert, if you reread Thea's initial response, it says "Since I'd spoken to the priest ahead-of-time, I was very firm with the person holding my arm & suggested she LET GO NOW OR Father John would hear about the incident", she wasn't yelling up at the preist "HEY FATHER JOHN!" I doubt that the preist knew about it unless someone told him about it afterwords.
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Thea Menagh |
Just a quick "Thank-You" Brendan for sticking up for me! And you're very right about how the incident occurred. No-one knew. No voices were raised. And the church caretaker and I had a laugh and a hug before I left for the 'Park Photos'. I just wanted to get on with my work quickly, and explained that to her afterwards. By the way, my dad was a minister for over 50 years. I'm a Preacher's Kid ... so perhaps a little more aware of church protocol & what's expected & respected than some. Just turned 60 this year, as well, and find I've mellowed somewhat over the years ... which is definitely a good thing. Have a good weekend, everyone & if interested, check some of my photographs at www.AFittingImage.com
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Dee Augustine |
No Kidding Tonya :) boy this one went far didnt it? Have fun no matter what the outcome is Tonya and get what you can and when you can without disrepect. Have a good one :)
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Tonya Cozart |
Hey all! Well the wedding was today and all went well. The couple was ok with having no photos during the wedding because that is their family church and pastor and they respected that. I got all of them walking in and out, and I asked the preachers wife(she was in the back with me)if she thought her husband would mind if I got "the kiss", it was just before he pronounced them, so I did not see a prob, but I wanted to make sure, she said she thought it would be ok, and if he said anything to tell him that she told me it was ok. So, that was good, and the couple gave us a good one! I did miss a few good shots that I would have like to have had during, but all in all it went well, the couple was happy, the preacher was happy, therefore I was happy.
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Patricia A. Cale |
Congrats, Tonya. I'm glad it went well. I'm sure you got some great shots!! And, you really started an interesting thread here!! Pat
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Christian Noval |
What a wonderfull thread. I'm a catholic priest, and before that I was a professional photographer, so I do understand both side. I think most minsiters who have problems with pictures beeing taken in the church, have had bad experiences with other photographers. I have worked a couple of years in Rome and did a lot of weedings there (as priest, not photographer). Some couples did look more at the photographer to see, what they should do, rather to the priest. So one important point is how well the couple knows the priest. When priests don't want pictures to be taken its not so much because the church is a sacred place, but because they don't want the ceremony to be disturbed. Some photographers are very noisy and move arround disturbing the ceremony ... even professionals. In fact often non-professional photographers are more respectful, because they don't want to do "anything wrong". A few professionals have the attitude expressed earlier in this thread: "My allegiance is to my client, not to the clergy." So my advice is: go and talk to the minister some days before, if you're told that they don't like pictures being taken. Even if it's okay to take pictures I suggest that ALL PHOTOGRAPHERS a little time before the ceremony do present themselves to the minister if they haven't takens pictures in that church before. That will help build up a relationship of respect and trust for both the minister and the photographer. It might even be, that the minister will give you a good advice for some good pictures. The minister knows the church very well, and will normaly be happy to tell where you find some good angles. Personally I never have problems with people taking pictures, but I don't like every guest to run arround in the church. Normally I will go and present myself to the photographer and help him find some good angles. Then normally I will ask all the guest to stay where they are and not to move arround taking pictures. In fact having a official photographers is a win-win situation for all. The ceremony won't be disturbed by many guests moving arround taking pictures. And the photographer can hopefuly sell some more of his photos since he had a better position doing the ceremony. If you want to build a even better relationship with the minister, then send him a picture and thank him for the wonderfull ceremony. Christian
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Craig Paulsen |
Noticed a trend lately with Churches. Now the priest faces the alter and the couple faces the guest at a 45 degree angle. This works well for me, I can shoot everything with my long lens on a tripod (perfect)
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