 Sharon F. Morris |
EFP Not sure why I have not received any EFP this month??
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Michelle Alton |
It's epidemic, apparently. I have only 1. I'm thinking perhaps the business had to eliminate judges and this reduces the workload? Just a guess.
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- Kenneth De Pree Contact Kenneth De Pree Kenneth De Pree's Gallery |
I got one last night for a photo posted the day before. Skipped over were a number of photos of EFP quality. Should they be resubmitted? Are they still going to be rating the older photos? We get all sorts of promotion messages from BP, I hope they will also let us know what is going on with the EFPs.
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Pat Harry |
I went on vacation last week with my new wide-angle lens, and shot landscapes, which is not something I do often. None of those images received an EP. I have some learnin' to do!
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- Kenneth De Pree Contact Kenneth De Pree Kenneth De Pree's Gallery |
Pat, I don't think that is the reason. I believe that the reason is that photos for that period were not reviewed, or at least not so far.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher  Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
Everybody is complaining. I didnt have anything up from the 23rd of October to the 8th of November due to a lightning strike that took out my satellite dish and all my electronics. I finally got it all going yesterday but am so backed up I can't see the light at the end of the tunnel yet.
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- Joannie Bertucci Contact Joannie Bertucci Joannie Bertucci's Gallery |
Okay, something is going on and I think it has to do with all this "get together" BP photo shoot they are trying to put together across the country! I was so disappointed, I have six images for November and not one got an EP and I feel it is some of my best work... Judging from those of you who are here talking about this the judges just randomly picked galleries and none of ours was picked and you all always have EP's! I don't think they've had to eliminate any judges, they are just getting over extended with the desired growth that's wanted of this place!
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Michelle Alton |
Looks as though Sharon's November is now full of EFPs. That's encouraging. I'm 2 for 9 still.
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Sandy Hawkins |
I had a bunch skipped over too and I almost never have even one that doesn't get an EP let alone three in a row....I found it very odd too.
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Sharon F. Morris |
Thanks everyone for your response, it is good to know I am not alone. I am just going re resubmit my favorites.
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- Dennis Flanagan Contact Dennis Flanagan Dennis Flanagan's Gallery |
I haven't had one in 3 months.
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- Usman M. Bajwa Contact Usman M. Bajwa Usman M. Bajwa's Gallery |
I also only had 2 EPs so far in November. Hoping it gets better in the remaining part of the month. And Dennis you crack me up!!! UB.
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- Brenda Sides Contact Brenda Sides Brenda Sides's Gallery |
One EP thus far for this month. I'm thinking I may have been overlooked?
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- Kenneth De Pree Contact Kenneth De Pree Kenneth De Pree's Gallery |
I don't think anyone has been overlooked. I think BP has changed its policy re EPs and they are now more like finalist. Whether the reason was to encourage more to sign up for courses or something else, since such a radical and sudden change in policy seems to have been made, I think BP should give an explanation. Hard to have a contest if the rules are kept secret from the potential contestants.
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
The mysteries of BP's contest will never be fully understood, nor likely ever clarified ;) They historically are mum on the subject as you probably realize, so I wouldn't expect any explanation, even if there was a true, internal change in the workings... As their intellectual property, the inner workings of the contest judging needn't be divulged to anyone. Nor do I think the "rules" have changed, nor are kept secret---it has always been simply this: Enter once a day, enter your Best Possible Work, assign it to an appropriate category, and then ... cross your fingers. Lastly, my best advice---don't get hung up on shooting for EP's... They aren't contest "wins" (unless you count being 6th or 7th place, after 100+ actual winners, then hundreds of finalists (which technically represent 4th Place in the current heirarchy.) And the EP's historically have been subject to time-crunches/hasty selections or gaps that result in people feeling they were skipped. There's ALWAYS resub at your disposal next month, if you feel a great image was overlooked. (But then, all this is the 2-cents of someone who enjoyed the surprise of the contest a bit more back in the days when there was no such thing as visible EP's at all ;)
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- Kenneth De Pree Contact Kenneth De Pree Kenneth De Pree's Gallery |
You are right, of course, Christopher. And assuming the standards for get an EP have bee raised, I am liking it more than before.
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Sandy Hawkins |
I have had four skipped this month and to be honest I am actually glad they are getting more picky. I know that sounds odd, but if they give everything an EP it's no longer any big deal. For a while it seemed that some really bad images were getting EPs. I mean blown out, blurry, bad images....not mine of course. JUST KIDDING! :-)
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Kathryn Wesserling |
First - I was shocked to see that Sharon Morris started this thread (she's a top drawer winner consistently.) Second - after a relatively poor showing for me in October (hardly any EPs for all the NY Finger pix), I was starting to feel like I going downhill. Then, all of a sudden, I was getting an EP on nearly every entry again. I noticed that Usman and others were on the thread again, too. Note to longer time members - EPs may seem not overly valuable when so many are handed out, but for me they mean something else. Say 700-900 are awarded - out of 14000, that's still maybe 7% or so. Even if it were 10-14%, to me that's quite an honor. Yesterday, I received my first Silver and it has put me over the Moon! But, I still cherish the EPs I do get (but, it is still a bit discouraging when I don't.)
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
Maybe the usual EP picker had been off doing something else in October/early November.
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
Hi Kathy... Congratulations on your first Finalist! That is a huge thrill! (I admit, even as a "long timeer" any Finalist is still a thrill, not just the first one!) Best of luck for more in the future! I understand the EP's are a motivation to some folks (I'm sure that's why BP created them, likely as a motivation to drive students to classes.) But having diligently (obsessively?) tracked the contest results for the last 72 months now, I'm afraid I have to point out your EP statistics are far off the mark. There are on average, over the last 72 months, only 739 FINALISTS given out each month... (Oct. contest had 748 Finalists out of 14,200 entries.) The 72 month average is 3.57% of all entries make Finalist. (Oct's Finalist percentage was 5.27%) There are actually *thousands* of EP's given out every month... Historically, more like 50-70% of all images entered get an EP. (It varies greatly day by day, but generally a couple hundred per day, averaging out to over 50% in a month.) I do think there are factors (affecting the staff of BP) that impact the speed, and "thoroughness" of the EP's---resulting in long pauses where no EP's are coming out for a few days, followed by a big "catch-up" of EP's all at once... I think those pauses contribute to a hasty review, so that images are more likely to be overlooked in that first quick analysis. I also do firmly believe the Judges (ie, those who review and determine Finalist - 2nd - 1st - Grand) are not involved in the EP round; though there may be some more overlap these days, than in the past, given the belt-tightening BP had to go through. I enjoy the contest, and I encourage everyone to enjoy it. It is a fun competition, and I believe for many, it does drive you to learn, change, improve your photographic techniques (I know I have!) and hone your "eye". But to my original advice earlier, it is detrimental to your mental health (said with a grin) and enjoyment of photography, to get emotionally invested in, or all worked up over whether your images get EP's or not.
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Kathryn Wesserling |
Actually, you're preaching to the choir, Christopher; I do understand what you're saying. The EPs are simply icing (sweet and slightly addictive) Since receiving my first digital P&S on June 4th, 2004, there have been only 8 days that a camera is not with me. I shoot anything and everything that catches my eye and imagination. Sadly, that means quantity beats out quality a little too often. Luckily, I'm learning by observing and reading here at BP and other sites. The shooting comes first and the awards come last. Somewhere in between are the emotional rewards. :>}
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
You nailed it, Chris..I even doubt if any "judges" ever see them until AFTER they are made finalists. No way do they have the time to go through all the entries and pick EPs. That's gotta be done by staff members. When they get behind is when everything is sort of messed up. I have visions of them sitting around tossing wads of chewing gum at the screen to see what will get an EP. LOL..I guess you can't let it bother you..just resubmit.
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
You got it, Carolyn---resub is your friend, if you have what you believe is a strong image... I've made Finalists, and even golds, on direct resubs of overlooked images (ie, not even doing a new upload of the same image, just resubbing it.) 14,000+ entries (remember when it was 30,000+?) is just too many to expect a small staff, with other work to be done, to objectively, thoroughly, accurately review each one in loving detail... great images are bound to (and do) get skipped at every level of evaluation... resub is your friend ;)
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Kathryn Wesserling |
Funny thing about ReSubs. I used to put the images through again, hoping they would do better on subsequent tries. Then, I actually started looking at those images, looking for other reasons for no EP. It was a learning tool for me - some photos really did need improving and the "fixed ones" did better. Like I said "Icing on the Cake." (as is meeting new friends and their work through comments in the threads.)
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
That's the right way to do it... If the image is really strong to begin with, it can be worth a direct resub. But if you find things after the fact that need improving (either in PS, or in a reshoot) that is a valuable exercise, for sure! My Oct. 2nd Place this month is a complete reshoot of an image I *loved* when I was done with it (and thus entered it in Oct), but barely a week later, I noticed all kinds of problems that I knew I could improve in a total rework. (Patience is sometimes a hard thing for me, if I'm really jazzed about an image!! Someone said you should set your images aside for several days before making posting decisions... I'm trying to adopt that... a few days' break away from a beloved image often lets you see it with new eyes...)
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- Kenneth De Pree Contact Kenneth De Pree Kenneth De Pree's Gallery |
Amen. Too frequently I will be all enthused about an image and put it in my gallery. Then a couple of days later replace it with a revision.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I like to set up my entries a month in advance, that way I can look them over, substitute, change the order and not have all that stress of "what am I going to post today". It works for me.
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- Usman M. Bajwa Contact Usman M. Bajwa Usman M. Bajwa's Gallery |
Like you, Carolyn, I too *try* to lineup my entries at least two weeks in advance. However, sometimes I follow the line up as is and other times I tend to readjust and realign the lineup, mostly because I would like to enter 3 images in each of the 10 categories. I know this month will be a constant riot (LOL) in the lineup as I got the lowest number of EPs ever, specially at the start bof the month!! UB.
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- Erica Murphy Contact Erica Murphy Erica Murphy's Gallery |
Really glad to see this thread. I was getting really discouraged. I just finished my tenth BP class. I entered images that the instructor and classmates thought were really good and they did nothing for the staff/judges. I went on a trip to photograph fall colors and visit some national parks and these images didn't do well either. I guess the classes aren't helping me. I seem to be getting worse instead of improving.
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- Kenneth De Pree Contact Kenneth De Pree Kenneth De Pree's Gallery |
Erica, no need to be discouraged. Your instructor and classmates thought they were good and I'm sure they are better judges than the secretaries that are probably used to screen the images. I recently resubmitted an image that was passed over earlier this month and this time it got an EP. So I can confirm the advice above of others that resubmission at some point is a good idea.
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Monnie Ryan |
As organized as I think I am, the best I've been able to do is line up a couple of possibilities for the next day's entry the day before (or maybe choose a few to take with me to post when we're on the road). But I sure do like the idea of planning at least a couple of weeks ahead as well as entering 3 in each category. Thanks, Usman and Carolyn - I'm gonna get started NOW!
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I can rarely come up with one for each category. I try to spread them out as much as possible, though..I think I'll do all my resubmits in January this year. Well, not all of them, maybe, but some. I have some that have been through several times, so maybe they will get somewhere. I have had winners that have been through 4 or 5 times..they have to get into the finals before they can get anywhere. A few years ago I got 5 finalists out of a resubmit month and had either 3 or 4 winners out of those, so I know it's possible. Sometimes I think the finalist pickers just get tired of looking at them. LOL..
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Kathryn Wesserling |
I just finished my first and last Judging Assignment. It surprised me how many images were close to Top Notch /Amazing / Evocative / Stunning.... until I open them (every single image, btw - at least 3 or 4 pass-throughs.) The major of the "Not this time" pile was due to 1] Unleveled Horizon lines &/or Vertical lines. 2] A blown-out area. 3] Over-saturation. There is a fine line between a brilliant HDR and a heavy application of color. Sometimes, it's just too much. A very few had selection issues - uneven outlines. Hardly any of us uses the one critique thread, and few will offer any critiques on an already entered image. Maybe, we could develop a Photo-Buddy to double check our Re-subs; second pair of eyes... or we can always post it in our own FB album (one just for "fixes") and ask for opinions or suggestions. It doesn't have to get out of hand, but some double-checking couldn't hurt.
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
Yeah, the critique thread has always been a challenge at BP... even back in the days of free membership, it wasn't used much---and more often than not, when it was used, invariably folks would not offer *constructive* critique---just critique, which often sounds very harsh to many members. Turns out many BPer's are not looking for pick-apart, try-this, redo-that, what-if-you-did-this-instead constructive critique, and I recall many folks in that thread getting very upset over critique comments posted on their images. (Granted, there is a little art to writing constructive critique, and some folks back then were just sort of mean in general--no longer members, thankfully ;) It seems in my experience at BP, most members say they want to hear critique and ways to improve, but then don't really want to be told there's something "wrong" with their image; they prefer the gentle, positive support most discussion threads contain. (We can too easily become emotionally attached to our creations---and not see problems, or want to hear anyone point out a problem, once we're in love with it... I'm guilty of that; ie, loving an image immediately, only to find flaws in it 2 weeks later!)
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I think the reason people are resistant to critiqes is that while they might welcome the suggestion, they don't necessarily want the rest of the membership to see it..I usually BP mail or email them if I see something I think they might not have noticed. I never do it in the comment thread unless they specifically ask for it to be done there. Many of us aren't friendly with the word "tactfully"..LOL
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- Usman M. Bajwa Contact Usman M. Bajwa Usman M. Bajwa's Gallery |
One of mine was recently passed over. Would love any and all feed back/critiques on this. Thanks in advance. http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/dynoGallDetail.php?photoID=12485851 UB.
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Sharon F. Morris |
I love the colors and details Usman the only thing I would say is that it might need a little wider crop if you have that option.
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- Usman M. Bajwa Contact Usman M. Bajwa Usman M. Bajwa's Gallery |
It was shot as wide as my 18-55 Nikor allowed me. With my cropped Nikon D40 camera, its more like 27mm on a full frame. Thanks for your time in checking and commenting, Sharon :) UB.
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Kathryn Wesserling |
One thing to remember is that when we see images, they are most likely already entered - so I don't critique. One guy on another site ripped my picture to shred in the middle of a membership vote (now, THAT I thought wasn't necessary! lolll) I've sent a couple of BP Mails after seeing an EP on shots which had "problems" that I spotted (usually, an unlevel horizon or a big blob of something.) The note would usually mention what I noticed with a comment that if that image didn't go any higher, they might want to [whatever] and resubmit it. I'd say that I made the suggest because I loved the picture and thought it would be worth any extra time spent improving it. Each of the two photographers wrote back and thanked me. That made me feel better about taking the time.
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- Nikki McDonald Contact Nikki McDonald Nikki McDonald's Gallery |
I have posted this information before in other threads. There are clubs at BP where the activity is specifically directed at constructive critiques of images when the members request such critique. The FFFP Club is active, alive and well. We have two primary activities. For abut 3/4 of the month, we submit photos for critiques and critique the photos of other members of the group. We are kind but also quite critical as we do not, in general, submit images for group evaluation unless we want help. Each month we have an in-club theme contest. At that time we have a 3-4 day moratorium on critiques and we submit our entries in the contest and vote on them. We also discuss our reasons for the votes we cast. This is a great group and any BP member is welcome to join but I would suggest you be willing to participate FULLY (ie both submit images for critiques and critique others) and HAVE TIME to check in at least once a day. If you are interested and want an invitation, just let me know.
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Meghan Gonski |
THanks Nikki for directing me to this thread. It seems I picked the wrong month to enter. Reading all your comments, someone said they enter every day??? Don't you think that's a bit much. We're all talking about the staff being overloaded with other things and the contest being so huge. I think we could all significantly reduce the amount of work for BP if we are more choosy with what we enter. I only enter about 3 images for 1 month. IF we did that then they would have more time to look at each photo, thus making the awards more valuable.
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