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Photography Question 
Dr Silly
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/28/2004
 

Have EP's become the joke at BP


I don't know about the rest of you but it looks like BP is giving every photo a EP, which how makes them a joke. I know at times in the past that it looked like BP was not handing out very many of them. Well it looks to me they have taken the meaning out of them by giving every shot.

What do you the rest of you think. :O)

Doc


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8/10/2009 10:05:40 AM

 
Elida Gutierrez
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/6/2007
  Have 39 EFP in a row, I tried my best to do good pictures and think that at least most of them deserve that EFP badge. But now with all the EFP given good pictures are at the same level than regular or bad ones, I don't think is fair, because we tried our best, some times didn't get to pass to next level and some times do, but how we know they like it or not if around 90% are EFP?????


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8/10/2009 10:50:11 AM

 
Kathy Coombs
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/31/2009
  Agreed..I feel like I can enter almost anything ..Some of the EFP's are out of focus, have you noticed? I loved that badge..but...I am just not too sure I am earning them..new..have a lot to learn..maybe the finalist badge is what we attain to now?


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8/10/2009 12:34:32 PM

 
Carolyn  M. Fletcher
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/6/2001
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  Remember, the EFP round is the FIRST round of 4, so maybe there should be a lot in the first one..There always used to be and then they were cut by more than half in the second round and then a lot more in the third...but they gave out a lot more finalists in those days, too, and with a heck of a lot less entries. So it's all probably meaningless either way, except when you DON'T get one.


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8/10/2009 3:11:08 PM

 
Dr Silly
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/28/2004
  Personal I liked it when you didn't know anything until the finalist came out. And see everything had a chance. But way call something a EFP, when every photo is a first pick. If your going to give out badges, have the badges really mean something. That is all I am saying about the badges. At this point if I could turn off EFPs and then just see round 2 0r 3 that would be better. :O)


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8/11/2009 1:54:50 AM

 
Carolyn  M. Fletcher
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/6/2001
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  I think you can turn off your EPs..Maybe in your gallery..I know you can on the websites.


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8/11/2009 2:45:48 AM

 
Randy A. Myers
BetterPhoto Member Since: 8/20/2002
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  Yes Doc. They have become meaningless. I think this may be a knee jerk reaction to all the whining and moaning by some people that thought THEY should be getting more EFP's. I think BP got tired of the whining and said O.K., here ya go. We'll just give them all an EFP. So, to all the whiners and complainers out there, thank you very much for ruining something that was looked forward to daily by a lot of folks here. You know who you are. You should have been working more on your photography and working less on your typing. Sorry for the rant folks, but it really ticks me off.


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8/11/2009 4:29:46 AM

 
Dr Silly
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/28/2004
  Carolyn if you turn off the EPs will it also turn off the Finalist, POTD and Wins? :O)


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8/11/2009 6:11:13 AM

 
Debra K. Johnson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/8/2005
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  How do you know how many rounds? Is there a way to check?


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8/11/2009 6:27:11 AM

 
Tracy L. Hart
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/27/2005
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  Maybe it's time someone from the staff answers the questions...


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8/11/2009 6:37:07 AM

 
Dr Silly
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/28/2004
  Don't think the staff wakes up for another couble of hours. This posting is from the east coast. LOL :O)


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8/11/2009 6:41:13 AM

 
Carolyn  M. Fletcher
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/6/2001
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  I have my EPs turned off on my website and still show finalists and winners..I don't know about the member galleries.
The reason I know there were 4 rounds is we used to be able to watch them,(not with BP permission. but we knew how to find them) until everybody started asking too many questions and they blocked them.


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8/11/2009 7:22:26 AM

 
Dr Silly
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/28/2004
  I remember being able to do that. But didn't do it because it took up to much time. I have turned off my EP's and I still see my finalist and POTD. Thank you. :O)


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8/11/2009 7:25:52 AM

 
Nicholas Semo
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2008
  I haven't entered the contest since the 5th of Aug....and guess what....no EFP.
Stop entering....that will cut them way down...ROFL.....LOL


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8/11/2009 8:36:39 AM

 
Dr Silly
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/28/2004
  Thanks for the laugh, Nicholas. :O)


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8/11/2009 9:17:20 AM

 
Karen Kessler
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/10/2008
  I'm with you, Doc. It is meaningless to me now because I used to only rarely get them! Now I see them on some of my "not so good" shots & am actually disappointed! I only want them on the ones that deserve them - not every one of them I put out there! I've even thought about putting a really awful one out there to "test" them...and may still do just that!

Glad I'm not the only one wondering about this. I never complained about not getting them before, but that encouraged me to try harder. Now they are worthless since EVERY picture out there is getting them!


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8/11/2009 9:23:46 AM

 
Elida Gutierrez
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/6/2007
  They were from one extreme to another, remember that prior to May they were giving EFP as usual but in May and June the number went very low and this low number was showed on the number of finalists, many people start to complaining, including me, and now has became totally to the other end. IMHO I think if we return to the level where we were before May we all be happy.
ALL EXTREMES ARE BAD!


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8/11/2009 9:53:05 AM

 
Dennis Flanagan
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/31/2005
  It has always concerned me how much stock is put into badges and the contest. Take photos for the love of the craft, constantly try to get better and be creative.

If anything, I think the contest hampers creativity. I rarely see truly creative/original idea win awards.


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8/11/2009 10:10:50 AM

 
Carolyn  M. Fletcher
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/6/2001
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  That's because the same shots win month after month after month and so I guess people try to do what they think is going to win..It's gotten to be a joke with some of us, if you want to win, you need a girl in a hat/scarf covering most of her face, sitting by a veiled waterfall preferably with a frog. More additions welcome. LOL


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8/11/2009 11:32:05 AM

 
Dr Silly
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/28/2004
  Hahaha, your talking about a friend of mine Carolyn. I was thinking of putting a ribbon in Dr Silly hat and doing a SP from the back.. The only thing is if I won I wouldn't beable to take the ribbon out of my hat. LOL :O)


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8/11/2009 1:06:03 PM

 
Kathy Coombs
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/31/2009
  I did enter a so-so picture to test and no EFP...I'm new and was so excited when I got an EFP..NOW..NOT..BUT> as long as there are still good pictures to inspire me, I'll stay here. I'm sure the BP folks must be reading these blogs and will go back to what is right and fair, right??? :0


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8/11/2009 2:17:32 PM

 
Christopher Budny
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/3/2005
chrisbudny.com
  Ah, we've officially come full circle, it seems...
For the newbies---We started with no badge at all for the "EFP" level; your image displayed nothing below it until the contest results were published a month later, and you either made Finalist or better, or you didn't. Every photo you entered was a possible winner, until the moment Finalists came out.
Then forum discussions started to appear, particularly about how some people felt so discouraged entering month after month, but never making it to Finalist, that they were going to quit photography altogether... (these complaints were, and still are, greeted with the wise advice, "don't simply shoot for the contest, and don't seek your validation as a photographer through a website's medallion." Though some would also argue, "just let them quit." ;)
Eventually, the EFP badge was announced (to vociferous "for it" and "against it" sentiment) and seemed to fill this encouragement role. (Of course, BP is a business afterall, with a core product being photography improvement classes. Perhaps accruing lots of EFP's, but never making Finalist, might boost enrollment...)
It was quickly discovered that an EFP meant your photo had survived the "very first cut" in the eliminations; if you didn't get an EFP after a few days, you knew your photo was out of the running that month. (There even arose forum discussions wanting BP to grant yet another badge, indicating a level between EFP and Finalist.) Keep in mind, if you start at Grand Prize and work back, there are at least 6 known levels of eliminations, and likely 8 or 9, to reach EFP. (So when did Grand, First, Second, Finalist---ie, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Runner Up---stop being the traditional, acceptable rankings for contests of all kinds?)
Now, we're at the point of seemingly prolific EFPs, and as this thread suggests, the "for it" and "against it" is on the rise again, coming full circle---"Give us EFP's so at least we know we were contenders..." has evolved into "Don't give us so many EFP's because their worth is diluted." (Well, the relative worth, anyway, of a 6th-, 7th- or 8th-Place ranking.)
I've always felt the contest was well-run, well-respected, and a legitimate competition, with a consistent, but tight ratio of 2-3% of all entries making it to Finalist, and truly beautiful images making the GP, 1st & 2nd places. Those are not easy chances or odds, and so a Finalist, or even better, a win, really means something.
Not being a fan of the EFP's since they were first announced, I later decided that I'd rather have the EFP's as BP's means of encouragement/driving new business, rather than have BP expand the contest results to say, 10% of entries consistently making Finalist. I don't think the sudden increase in EFP's dilutes any inherent worth, because as a "first round eliminations survivor" indicator, I never placed much value on them to begin with. While it doesn't seem those of us using the "Classic Gallery" can turn off the EFP badge display, I've grown to tune them out automatically.
I remain a staunchly pro-BP fan, and probably always will be. I've never found a better online community for photographic pursuits, knowledge sharing and all sorts of general discussions (including this impossibly long ramble!)
So I'd just wrap this up by repeating a thought expressed earlier (thanks as always, Dennis!) which makes more sense than ever, after almost 4 years on this site---Shoot because you love it, not because you need to see a badge to love it. (And a cautionary corollary---Don't let the BP Contest consume you; and it is capable of doing so, if you let it!)
Happy Shooting, everyone!


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8/11/2009 6:05:16 PM

 
Ken Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/11/2005
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  Very well said, Chris..and Dennis! Thanks for putting it into historical perspective!


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8/11/2009 6:11:27 PM

 
Dr Silly
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/28/2004
  Well said Chris, I remember back that far. LOL I have never really been a big fan of EFP's as they where first called. But with all the changes that have gone on over the years, I am still a fan of BP. I see some wrong things about BP and I see the good things about BP. And no matter what happens I will still upload to BP. And I have always said (ask those who know me) to shot for your self and your finalist and wins will come. It may take so time. It took two years for me to get my first Finalist.

Remember all the EP's Finalist and Golds will not mean much, if your not having fun. :O)


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8/11/2009 7:12:31 PM

 
Usman M. Bajwa
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/11/2006
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  I have always believed that as long as you are enjoying shooting and have that inner desire to constantly learn and improve on your skills, YOU ARE A WINNER!

And BP with its wonderfully diverse community is one hell of a good place to learn and share. Personally, I can attest to the fact that in the last one year or so that I have seriously been involved with BP, my learning has improved in leaps and bounds, however, I do realize and know that I have still a long way to go.


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8/11/2009 8:34:06 PM

 
Jeana Clark
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/11/2006
 
....And here I thought I was getting Better!!! LOL!!!
Isn't it a shame?
I haven't the time nor the energy to
figure out the addition of/ increase/decrease/increase of EFP's.
I feel bad that I rarely have time these days to do proper commenting on images that I find beautiful..creative..extraordinary..etc.
I did, however, notice that every one of my images this month has received an EFP so far....Most of last months as well...Again....
And here I thought I was getting better!!!
I'm not a professional photographer...
and I don't play one on T.V....LOL!!
I learn as I go..as most of the people here on this site. I take pictures because I enjoy sharing the things I see on an ordinary day with others that may not be familiar with the sights of Kansas. I do not travel to far away places, therefore, my images may not be very exciting, but... I Like Them...My Family Likes Them. It's who we are...It's WHERE we are....I have been elated to think that the judges at BP liked what I have presented enough to recognize with an EFP badge and look forward to seeing if ANY have gone on with further recognition.
Perhaps all one might need to become more encouraged is an EFP badge. I know I am...because it gives me some hope that one particular image just might advance on to the next level. I have only been a part of BP for 3 years...in that time I've received 38 finalists...2 of which DID receive 2nd place wins....THAT I am very proud of.
I know it's nothing like the consistant wins that several receive. I will continue snapping away in hopes that someday I can display a 3rd winner.
Hey DOC...You're Very Right...Ya' just gotta have fun with it!! If one isn't having fun....then why do it?

~J~


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8/11/2009 8:37:57 PM

 
Chuck Bruton
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/2/2007
chuckbrutonphotography.com
  I'm glad Doc brought up this subject.

There was a long time that I thought a lot of the EPs were given out because of just who one was, that is not all top contributors had an EP every time and a lot of regular folks had some EPs but weren't recognized.

Now, it seems the editors may be a little easier at the time. Also, I thought I saw that most previous EPs were images that were more on the creative side than just a regular well exposed image with the third rule and all of that.

My personal opinion I would give an image a higher score depending on the WOW factor,and that would include something more than the generic image one might see.

You have to remember to please yourself first, unless it's for a client.

It's all in the eye of the viewer.

My seven year old grandson has a very artistic eye, and this past week end we visited the local fair's photography competition and he made the comment, what's wrong with the judges," they didn't pick the best ones".

You have to strive for that "WOW" factor. That way there's no doubt.


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8/11/2009 9:40:01 PM

 
Robert Baer
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/7/2004
  I have always felt that most of us who have been taking classes or shooting alot should pass round one of the contest with ease. We should be able to compose an image correctly and shoot it technically correct. If we somewhat experienced photographers could not pass round one then something was wrong with this system. I was often shocked at good images that never passes round one. I do see that BP has definitely loosened round one up. I have resubmitted images that were passed over and are now given the little emblem. Perhaps the EPS should be given at round further in the contest rather than at round 1 but then that would discourage the newcomers. So who knows?? Keep shooting for the fun of it. Keep shooting to improve. Do not let a little badge discourage you. You know if your image is good. The choices of the judges are personal tastes if everything else is equal.


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8/11/2009 9:59:02 PM

 
Carolyn  M. Fletcher
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/6/2001
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  Justin I agree 100%!


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8/12/2009 3:21:07 AM

 
Nicholas Semo
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2008
  Has anyone actually contacted BP and asked them about the change?


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8/12/2009 6:14:53 AM

 
Dr Silly
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/28/2004
  Why do that Nicholas, it's more fun doing this. LOL :O)


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8/12/2009 6:32:56 AM

 
Gary Lange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/20/2005
  Sometimes just getting it off your chest does a body good, huh Doc?


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8/12/2009 7:45:37 AM

 
Tracy L. Hart
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/27/2005
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  Well stated by Christopher. I have been on this site for a few years, and still like my badges. No I have never made it past round one, but my family and friends think it's cool that I made it that far. Yes I would like to make it farther, but as an amature I still smile to see the badge. Sorry... I hope newbies dont get discouraged. It is hard to compete with the pros (my opinion) but I do see some that win and say hey, I took one just like that and didnt get that far.. oh well. .life goes on I shoot because I love it.. I post because I can share with my family and friends. We all have one common interest, regardless if someone puts a badge on it or not.


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8/12/2009 10:50:10 AM

 
Tammy L. Newcomb
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/23/2006
  Yes, I contacted BP and the reply was that nothing has changed regarding the contest.... so get used to EP increasing and decreasing as different judges participate in choosing the EPs from month to month.

Just enjoy your passion and keep creating those beautiful images. As with the EP increase, I have also seen a lot of people step up their game and strive for more which can only mean you all are learning and that is why you are here.


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8/17/2009 7:47:36 PM

 
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