 Judy Williams |
No Longer Able to Enter Contests What a racket. Now I cannot enter the contests any more because of the new rules: BetterPhoto students and BetterPholio owners can participate. Regardless of whether you are a professional or an amateur, a digital shooter or a film lover, an outdoor enthusiastic or a studio photographer, you can enter the contest as long as you have taken a class or subscribed to a BetterPholio. I guess I will no longer be participating here. I do't need to take a class and I don't want to subscribe to a BetterPholio. It's all about the mnoney here now. Shame.
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Deb Koskovich |
It's called b-u-s-i-n-e-s-s. Without $$$, it simply goes away -- same as the company you work for.
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Sarah G |
Art for art sake is hard to find. EVERYTHING costs something. The site has built a "clientele" now and can afford to charge. I could really use the classes, but I don't know if I want to put money into a place that informs you on July 1st that you can no longer do what you've been doing. (I'd been thinking of joining/taking a class before the events of July 1st.) It was like a slap in the face. NO warning of the change coming, they just did it. Of course, I'm a "freeloader" so do they really owe me anything?...How about respect as a possible customer. Most people chatted on threads about how it was reasonable to expect to be a paying customer to participate in the contest. The membership fee was ONLY $22 and "everyone" thought that that wasn't unreasonable. I kind of laughed at those comments and told a BP friend that I expected a raise in price soon. Before the end of the day they'd done the very thing I'd expected them to and the start up fee went from $22 to $49. Like Deb says, "It's called b-u-s-i-n-e-s-s." Gas for the car is expensive these days and ... It's been 22 days since the new stuff came to "town" and I'm still happily putting up an occassional image and getting comments. It is a rather nice feeling to be free of the free contest. Art just for the sake of art has its benefits. (P.S. Keep in mind that I am a pure novice at this photo stuff, so I don't consider my stuff art.)
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- Melinda F. Schneider Contact Melinda F. Schneider Melinda F. Schneider's Gallery |
It may be called b-u-s-i-n-e-s-s but there are not very many businesses that raise their rates by more than 100% with no warning. I currently have a Basic Gallery (BetterPholio) and continue to enter the contest but with the new rates I do not anticipate renewing. This will be a HUGE loss to me. I have had a year full of losses. One more is more than I can bear. So call it b-u-s-i-n-e-s-s if you will. But it seems to me it is Very Bad Business!
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Deb Koskovich |
Melinda, I agree 100% that it was poor judgment on BP's part to increase the price 100% in one fell swoop. I also agree that a month's warning should have been given, out of courtesy to the contest-entering membership. But to call BP a 'racket' because they do not open the contest to the free galleries is where my agreement ends.
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- Melinda F. Schneider Contact Melinda F. Schneider Melinda F. Schneider's Gallery |
I never used the word "racket!!"
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Deb Koskovich |
No, I know you didn't. My response was to the original post, and then my response to you was to explain my post to the original poster.
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Mary Iacofano |
How sad. Let me be the first to invite anyone who thinks this is "bad" business to set up a site, free for anyone to join and join in on great forums. And also start a contest that is free entry to anyone. to the average of over 30K entries per month. You really do get alot more than you pay for on this site.
Mary
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Colleen Farrell |
I agree with Mary. BP may not have gone about making the change in the best way, but geez, you can't even enter the county fair without paying for it.
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Deb Koskovich |
Amen.
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Luca Diana |
Don't worry. I have a Premium Portfolio and I decide to stop entering. It's been months since any of my photos got even looked at, there are way too many submissions. The part that annoys me a bit is that I have been keywording lots of photos and have over 300,000 points now (10 for each keyword) and I've seen many 2nd prices and finalists that I wouldn't rate even 3 stars on a 1 to 5 star system.
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David Van Camp |
I wouldn't be here now if it weren't for the combo of free gallery & free contest when I found BP (last Jan.) However, I was planning to upgrade to 'Basic/Premium' this month. And sign-up for a course in Sept/Oct. However, given the manner in which they made these changes and a few other issues I consider serious, I'm just not sure. I'm taking time to consider. For me, it's not the money that's an issue; I can easily afford it, although I understand that for many other people that's not the case. But, I definitely think that BP has a right to make such price & policy changes as they see fit. Likewise, all customers or potential customers have the right to walk away or stay, opening or closing their wallets as they see fit. And, btw, there are a number of competitor sites out there... one of which is currently advertising an upcoming (paid) gallery rate change after the end of this month (they also have a free one that will remain free.) And their contest remains free for all. So, google for options and choose whatever you feel is right for you. dvc
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Luca Diana |
BTW, I do agree that the contest needs to be open only to paying members, because of the sheer volume of images submitted. The problem is that this solution is not enough and it's only temporary... sooner or later it's going to be Pro Portfolio and/or people who have taken at least 5 courses.
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David Van Camp |
Oh, btw, Mary... Your math is wrong, the Basic/Premium gallery price increased by more than 100% ... so it's about a buck a week now. :D dvc
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David Van Camp |
Luca, The only problem with that logic is that contest submissions have been declining steadily now for the past 8+ months. From ~40K last Oct to what appears will be ~25K this month (down from ~31.5K last month, before the changes were made.) Also note that BP is advertising on the contest overview page "Over 36,000 entries each month", which was only true for 2 months in this period: Oct 2007 & Jan 2008. For more info, see: http://www.betterphoto.com/forms/QnAdetail.php?threadID=32375 dvc
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Luca Diana |
Not sure why they would want to advertise a ton of entries. I'd be happy to enter a contest that say "5 entries every month" LOL
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David Van Camp |
Hah! Maybe :) However, I assume marketing thinks lot's of participation is a good thing... but, apparently, others in BP (accounting? payroll?) don't agree :D dvc
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Sarah G |
...And those who thought their image was passed up due to the large volumes of entries like the accounting/payroll dept. ...And the "Why did they pass that image up?"..."I don't know. Definitely resubmit that one" STILL GOES ON. ...And the new gallery look was merely a cover-up for a huge price increase (even if the site did need a bit of a face lift). ...A buck a week doesn't sound expensive, but that was a HUGE jump in price. Also, that isn't the only price increase. You're paying to enter a contest, that has FEWER monetary rewards now. They've even gotten CHEAP on that. David...sorry to see that you didn't win that Basic Gallery you were hoping for. You had a great Finalist though. Congrats!
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BetterPhoto Member |
I hate to be the bad egg in the dozen, but you've got to remember that everything costs. It costs for equipment to run the site. It costs for the domain name. I hate to think of the up front costs so we have can our basic galleries. Personnel to man the site costs. Instructors cost. Judges cost. But everyone expects free. This is a hard thread to take. Gas jumps over 100%, but we're still driving. Electricity goes up, but we still run our air conditioners. Heck, how many of us belong to a dating site and pay 40 bucks a month to write people that we don't know. Betterphoto has great opportunities for beginner and professional photographers alike. Someone has been paying for all of this. They just want to recoup their losses. How many out there have earned their first dollar with a camera due to this site? How many have taken better photographs due to this site. Don't you think it's time to give something back?????
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David Van Camp |
Hey, thanks! Sarah :) not sure I understand the first point (...And those who thought their image was passed up due to the large volumes of entries like the accounting/payroll dept) but, anyway, these reactions are just normal and to be expected. Why didn't *I* win or get more finalists?... Didn't *I* deserve them?.... I dunno :) Just have to try harder next time, I guess :) :) It can be frustrating. But, as long BP can demonstrate at least a reasonably even playing field, then it's good. If, however, they were to start awarding VERY BLATENT, OBVIOUS undeserving images or re-rewarding the same images in multiple contests ...... oh, wait, that's right ... dvc
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David Van Camp |
Mark, There are many ways to create income from any business. One option BP could easily explore is advertising, particularly on free sites. Also on popular pages, such as Recent Entries. Given the number of users on this site, that could possibly have brought in more revenue and had a less detrimental impact then the approach they took. I'm sure there are many other options they could have explored as well. And many different approaches they could have taken to make this change, such as providing reasonable notice, as others have previously noted. And, there are a number of other competing sites. BP, as I said above, is well within their rights to make such changes and to make them in the manner that they did. But, angering your customer base is seldom a great idea in business, particularly when your customers don't RELY on your product or service, as is the case with gas and food. And, keep in mind, those essential price increases reduce the amount of free cash people have for 'optional' purchases. Any free enterprise concern can do (withing legal limits) what it wants. But, without a satisfied (or captivated) and continuing customer base, it will cease to exist. dvc
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Colleen Farrell |
I'm sorry, but really, folks, if you're that annoyed with BP, why stick around? I CAN understand the complaints--all of them--but not when they're repeated for weeks on end. If I were you, and I were that disgusted with BP, I'd have been out of here long ago.
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Mary Iacofano |
David, my math was basd on the old price of 22.00 per week. the point was that the person who started this thread complained about the price increase. I invited them to start a site of their own and do it for 22.00 or 42 cents per week. I too am sick of opening up the forum to learn and instead see alot of crying that "I didn't win" .....and "I cant enter for free". too much whining & crying.
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Tressie Davis |
DVC: If, however, they were to start awarding VERY BLATENT, OBVIOUS undeserving images or re-rewarding the same images in multiple contests ...... oh, wait, that's right ... =-=-=-=- LOL David! :-)
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KV Day |
BP giving away Premium Galleries for 2nd place wins was their biggest mistake. They now have people who won't pay them a dime for years and years because of that and who are their biggest users. They were giving away 22,000 dollars in "renewable" revenue every year. They won't recoop that loss for years to come and the learning curve of people using digital now has made taking a class pretty much unnecessary with the ease of cameras. The pay contest was an attempt to create more income, when that failed, you saw it coming...increases. I have seen the amount of staff declned. What they don't take in account is offering anything for the experienced photographer. No printing needs, nothing. A good majority of other sites offer now more of those things. Time to rethink what is being offered.
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Luca Diana |
Colleen and Mary, if everyone acted like you, nothing would ever improve because instead of making the world a better place you'd always jump ship. That is SOOOOO the wrong attitude.
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Colleen Farrell |
<< Colleen and Mary, if everyone acted like you, nothing would ever improve because instead of making the world a better place you'd always jump ship. That is SOOOOO the wrong attitude. >> Luca, it's simply of matter of picking your battles. When I want "to make the world a better place," I volunteer, donate to charity, speak out about political issues, and vote with my dollars. But just complaining over and over--without offering creative solutions/suggestions--about one site on the web is a poor use of anybody's time, in my opinion. It certainly doesn't "make the world a better place." KV offered some good info and a suggestion that I hope BP staff will take into consideration.
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Luca Diana |
I think charity donation is a bit off-topic. And if BP reads here maybe the complaints of those people that you'd rather see going away will bring some positive change, which would benefit you too, don't you think? So, yes, complaining sometimes helps. I like that you speak out about political issues, not enough people do that or get interested in politics or things would definitely better.
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Colleen Farrell |
"I think charity donation is a bit off-topic." LOL ... Ok, whatever you say, Luca. For the record, I didn't say I'd rather see the complaints go away--I don't care either way. I do think creative suggestions are more effective in bringing about "positive change" than repeating the same complaint ("it's so unfair!" "they should have notified us") over and over. What BP does, in the big scheme of life, is a small matter to me--there are far bigger issues to get exercised about. But, to each his own. By all means, vent away. I've spent more than enough time on this thread, so I'll leave it to you to continue. :)
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Sarah G |
No Colleen (and Mary), you just told us to get lost. That is not the way to show us that you don't care either way. You are displaying quite the opposite opinion of the "I don't care either way" statement. WHAT I REALLY FIND SAD IS THAT THERE ARE STILL THOSE LOGGING INTO BP AND JUST NOW FINDING OUT THAT THEY NO LONGER CAN DO WHAT THEY USED TO DO. That is the shame of it all. MORE THAN 20 DAYS AFTER THE CHANGES AND BP HAS YET TO REALLY INFORM ALL OF THEIR CUSTOMERS OF THE CHANGES.
I'm tempted to do so, however I do have a couple of BP friends and would like to be able to share with them despite the new and improved policies of BP.
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Luca Diana |
>LOL ... Ok, whatever you say, Luca. >Whatever you say, you. You certainly lack logic skills. >For the record, I didn't say I'd Did I dream the part where you said "if you're that annoyed with BP, why stick around?" - That doesn't sound like someone who doesn't care. People who don't care just shut up. As the old saying goes: if you have nothing to say, don't say anything. >I've spent more than enough time on >this thread, so I'll leave it to you >to continue. :) Good. Hope you keep your promise. I'm sure you have more important things to do :)
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