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Photography Question 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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Are there fewer EFPs lately?


Just curious what happened to the previous thread. Did someone report it as malicious or something?


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1/12/2008 7:00:17 PM

 
Sherry K. Adkins
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/13/2006
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  I can't find it either.


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1/12/2008 8:13:22 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  I'm pretty sure it was removed. Hope it wasn't something I said :o).


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1/12/2008 8:24:46 PM

 
Ken Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/11/2005
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  I've seen alot worse threads...unless there was something said early this evening..cause nothing was earth-shattering as of this afternoon.


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1/12/2008 8:30:09 PM

 
Sherry K. Adkins
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/13/2006
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  The last time I read it, there was nothing on it to warrant it being removed. Sharon, I admire your willlingness to express your opinions. I'm not as brave. I do believe there is something new (atleast different)going on with the EP's. I have had a significant drop off in them in my gallery and don't believe my work has fallen off. Kinda discouraging....but I keep on plugging.


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1/12/2008 9:27:52 PM

 
Michael Skelton  . 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/16/2006
  I dont see why it would be removed , If someone didnt agree or was offended with what people were saying , well just dont read it.

I found the thread funny and interesting . There dosen't seem to be to many people interested in the cash contest . Maybe BP felt it was due to the thread . Either way don't expect an answer.

More fuel for the fire. Sorry just couldnt help myself ;o)


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1/13/2008 1:53:06 AM

 
Melinda F. Schneider
BetterPhoto Member Since: 8/14/2007
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  My experience: I joined BP in mid-August. Started entering the free contest in September. New to photography, I didn't expect much. With sporadic entries, I got 4 Eps in Sept, 5 in Oct, 5 in Nov. In December, entering daily, I got only 1 EP. So far, 2 for January. I'm pretty sure my skills and photos are improving. I'd like to believe there's been a change in BP policy around assigning EPs (rather than my work stinks). It would be nice to know.


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1/13/2008 5:24:57 AM

 
Michael Skelton  . 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/16/2006
  I was able to access the old thread from the link below .It allows you to respond to the thread but it doesn't show up in the discussion group. It must some how be disabled. O well , thats life.

The plot thinkens.

threadhttp://www.betterphoto.com/forms/qnaDetail.asp?threadID=30752


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1/13/2008 6:10:02 AM

 
Michael Skelton  . 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/16/2006
  ooops

http://www.betterphoto.com/forms/qnaDetail.asp?threadID=30752


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1/13/2008 6:13:05 AM

 
Michael Skelton  . 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/16/2006
  Oh where, oh where has my little thread gone

Oh where, oh where can it be

With itís responses cut short and itís conspiracies theories cut long

Oh where, oh where can it be?


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1/13/2008 7:43:28 AM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  Weird! Oh well, just so everyone knows I do like to voice my opinions but we all know what they say about opinions LOL. Everyone's got one ;).

I'm with Michael, most of the time the opinions expressed in these forums are funny and interesting.


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1/13/2008 7:49:41 AM

 
Raymond H. Kemp
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/2/2004
  I normally don't participate in contest threads, but this one caught my eye.

It appears as Sharon pointed that the original thread was removed for some reason. I did glance at the thread and it is mostly people scratching their heads and theorizing as to the apparent reduction of EFPs and all in for the most part in good spirit.

But why hasn't BP responded?? I never could understand why someone from the management side of this web site doesn't chime in and help stifle on-going questions and concerns such as this one.

I think this is a great site for beginning photographers and advanced to share their experiences. I do think the EFPs seem to get more attention from the community than the actual contest winners which is a shame.

The EFP is nothing more than a nomination of the BP judges for serious contention in the monthly contest.

Again, I do feel that over the past few months, at least in the BP threads, the final winners seem to have been over-shadowed by the EFP winners.

Anyhow, just my own thoughts folks. Maybe BP will offer up some thoughts on this as well?

Ray



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1/13/2008 8:24:35 AM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  Hi Ray and welcome! I have a confession to make. I'm a bored housewife. Not a good think in forums sometimes :o).

I agree it would be a shame for the EFP to overshadow the winners. I hope that is not the case. I think most of us are just addicted to the contest and really enjoy the new addition of the EFP. It kinda keeps the fires going while awaiting the results of judging for the previous month. I always look forward to the next crop of winners!


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1/13/2008 9:37:35 AM

 
Michael Skelton  . 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/16/2006
  Correct me if Im wrong .But I think one the main concerns about the EFPs was not that they are gathering more importance then the winners but that because photos are not receiving EFPs they are not even getting a chance to be seen by the judges that sellect the winners.

This has people wondering about the fairness of the contest. As I said , I may be wrong but that is how I was understanding the concerns.

Feel free to correct me .


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1/13/2008 10:12:26 AM

 
Raymond H. Kemp
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/2/2004
  Nothing to correct. My post was an addendum to this thread and I mearly added my point of view about the EFPs receiving more attention than the actual contest winners.


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1/13/2008 10:35:08 AM

 
KV Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2005
  I made a comment on the last thread that BP did not have permission from me to email my thumbnails to others. The thread was deleted right after.


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1/13/2008 10:36:30 AM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  Mystery solved I guess. I was hoping for something more dramatic LOL.


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1/13/2008 1:22:17 PM

 
Erin Appelbaum
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  I've been reading this thread for a while and thought I'd check in. I am encouraged and discouraged at the same time. I am encouraged in that I'm not the only one who has had a drop off in EFP's. I used to get them fairly often. Not so many since December. I was discouraged to learn that the EFP's were the picks for the next round. That means my chances of winning has decreased by more than half. I guess there would be no point in keeping the entries once the judges has passed them over. I really enjoy this site and will continue to participate. But, knowing that the EFP's were the first round picks kinda took some of the fun out of the whole deal. Like Sherry A. said, I, too, will keep plugging away.


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1/13/2008 2:51:00 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  Peter, it can be discouraging. I was getting them pretty regularly too and now I probably only get one out of every three or four entries. I think I'm to the point where I won't worry about it anymore, at least I hope so.

Here's where I plug microstock :o). You can submit as many photos a day in any category you wish and get paid a little for the effort. I'm having fun making a little money with my photography.


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1/13/2008 4:00:20 PM

 
Erin Appelbaum
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  Thanks for the advice and the tip.


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1/13/2008 5:10:59 PM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  Hello,

I posted this on the earlier thread, but apparently it has been removed. Probably because of my joke about the cat (which really was a joke by the way). After this post, I will probably never get an EP again.

Regardless, As for EPs, I still have a few questions and concerns about this site feature. I also have to admit from the get go that I am getting frustrated-- indeed, frustrated enough to close up shop here at BP. The problem is that I rarely receive EPs anymore! Maybe this means that I am a bad photographer. Maybe this is something that I have just got to admit and that I should move on with my life (maybe taking up paper cutting or something). This is a crushing thought for me and it gives me stomache pains even to think about it, but there is the possibility that I am simply not good enough.

However this being said (or ranted), in skimming through the editor's first picks I noticed 3 that were so bad in terms of focus and noise that I could not help but email the BP powers that B. I can deal with an image that I simply feel is mediocre-- that's just my opinion. However, these images were technically flawed. While I noticed these images were removed from the editor's first pick feature, they did not favor my question with the curtesy of a reply. This caused me to feel that perhaps there is some truth to someone's claim that the awarding of EPs can be based on commercial merits as well as on photographic merits (sorry if I offend anyone here-- but really please understand how upsetting this is for me to work hard and to not even get one EP over the course of a month).

Okay this is my question. If I do not get any EPs in a month does this automatically mean that I am no longer in the contest? Also, how does one go from winning 1-2 finalists a month, to not even hitting the mark with a few EPs? I have thought about entering the paid contest, but really do not think that I will do this until I am confident that my images are getting a fair shot. Also, I do not want to waste my money. How do others feel about this? Thank you, Christina

P.S. I am not saying that the EPs are generally bad, far from it. I just want to know why some images are picked while other equally meritorious images are completely overlooked or why if the competition is so fierce images that have even slight flaws or universal focus issues make the cut.


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1/14/2008 6:09:02 AM

 
Erin Appelbaum
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  I feel your frustration. I haven't a clue as to what the judges are looking for. It does seem kind of pointless to keep entering a contest when you feel you don't even have a chance. I believe they should do away with the EFP's altogether. I believe the judging of a contest should be a secret to the judge's until the winner's are announced.


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1/14/2008 8:52:41 AM

 
Deb Koskovich
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/9/2007
  "While I noticed these images were removed from the editor's first pick feature, they did not favor my question with the curtesy of a reply."

Like many others, I've been following these contest threads like a car wreck. You don't want to see it, but you can't look away. Anyway, I haven't felt compelled to post until I read the comment above. Christina, what did you mean when you said the photos were removed from the EFP feature? Are you saying that EFP buttons were removed from these photos that originally had buttons? Or did you mean you are not seeing them as you page through the "Reload" feature under the Photos / Editor's First Picks feature? I would be surprised if they actually removed buttons from photos that had initially been awarded one. Just curious...

To answer your other question, you are correct that if you go the whole month without any EP's, your photos for that month are not in the running for the contest. Only photos that make it through the first round (ie, Editors First Picks) are sent to the judges for evaluation.


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1/14/2008 8:58:27 AM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  I sincerely believe that they were removed from the reload feature, but still probably have medallions. I tried to refind them, but simply could not no matter how many times I used the refresh buttons. As for removing medallions, I had one EP mysteriously vanish from an image never to return.--It really stinks that I no longer even have a chance to be in the contest. It definitely confirms my decision not to contribute to the cash contest! Oh well, there can be no illusion that BP is above all else a business.-C2


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1/14/2008 9:09:46 AM

 
Deb Koskovich
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/9/2007
  Ok, I see what you mean about the reload -- well to be honest, that feature is majorly wonky anyway. You can page through that thing a million times (and I have) and not find your own EP's, yet you'll see the same ones come up over and over. Very strange. I imagine it's a truly random search, but odd how many of the same ones show up repeatedly.


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1/14/2008 9:13:48 AM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  --Just one more thing.... While I am frustrated by my own lackof success in this regard, my frustration is tempered as I surf through the contest entries. There are scores of images that represent outstanding efforts that do not have that EP label. Maybe I should petition BP to give me my own C2P medallion because there are lots of wonderful images that I like that go unacknowledged. I have also decided that this in turn makes it more important to let others know when their work is appreciated.-C2


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1/14/2008 9:15:10 AM

 
Deb Koskovich
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/9/2007
  I agree 100% -- which is why I make an effort to comment on as many as I can, and add the great ones (in my opinion, that is) to my Favorites. At least the photographer will see that someone marked it as a Favorite, if they know how to look for their shots that have been picked. For those that don't know: if you go to My Member Center, then click on Favorites, then click on View My Gallery, and page through each photo individually (not thumbnails) you'll see a notation above any photo that has been picked by at least one person as a Favorite Photo. It absolutely makes my day when someone picks one of mine.


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1/14/2008 9:19:32 AM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  Anyone have time to kill? Why not go back a day or so in the contest and just look at each entry one at a time and mark off the technically adequate photos against the poor shots. Check them just for sharpness and exposure. Nothing more. See how the ok shots stack up against the awful ones. I just did a few pages and what I found was about 50/50 split. The first round shouldn't be rocket science. Just get rid of the bad ones and move the ok ones to the next round. No doubt there would still be room for complaint but I have to say it really bothers me to see an EFP that is not sharp or properly exposed. The rest I'll leave up to subjectivity, but those two things should be absolutes.

As an example, I entered one the other day that I happen to like but know it would not be a good contest entry. I forgot to resize it for the new dimensions before uploading so it looks soft. I would not expect this shot to get a nod.


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1/14/2008 11:34:41 AM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  Has anybody looked through the unhappy people's galleries and seen a picture they wouldn't have given an efp to?


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1/14/2008 11:40:18 AM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  I think that I should make myself a bit clearer here and agree with Susan that the EPS have to be questioned on purely technical merits. While I may think that an image is mediocre, uninteresting or stereotyped, this is purely my opinion. Personally, I think that many of the winners and EPS are a bit too cute or sweet for my liking, but again-- this is my opinion. I do not even know whether or not it is valid for me to comment on compositional issues because again what is bad cropping for some may be an interesting abstraction for others. What I am talking about has to do with execution--for example, noise that is clearly the result of an overtly high ISO or over cropping, pixelation due to overcropping or low file quality, universally unfocused or soft images-- perhaps where the photographer was a bit too close to the subject, photos that have been oversharpened in PS, exposure issues. Anything else is simply a witch hunt and is thus unfair. Personally, I would much rather look for images that deserve EPs but have been overlooked. However, Gregory, if you would like to surf my gallery and criticize my work feel free. The vast majority of my EPs as displayed in my gallery were from the bad old days when such things were handed out more liberally. However, if this is something that you would like to do, it won't ruin my day and nor will I take it personally. Regards-C2


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1/14/2008 11:59:33 AM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  Also, as a consumer, I do reserve the right to ask these sorts of questions. I think that BP can only win by being a little less opaque in expressing their policies, expectations and procedures. Also, in response to Gregory, if I can dish it out, than I can certainly take it, and encourage reciprocity in this respect.-C2


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1/14/2008 12:05:38 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  You're running late, Greogry. Where have you been???


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1/14/2008 12:11:11 PM

 
Mick Burkey
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/19/2005
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  I personally like to see this debate and questioning of BP process continue. What a shame that Jim and/or BP staff do not partake. Really tells you something.

Christina, I have to say you have no worries about your work. I know your images from here and from Digital Image Cafe, and salute both your commitment to photography and your spunk.

And I must say Gregory makes me laugh. Monday-morning, armchair quarterbacking is so much easier to do when you don't really partake in the game. Unfortunately, I probably miss some tidbits of insight since I have a tendency to dismiss the ramblings of people who have so much to say from outside the arena.

Fun and thoughtful thread, though.


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1/14/2008 12:26:18 PM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  Hi Mick! Good to hear from you. Also, Gregory and his can of beans doesn't bother me in the least! I just want him to know that while I value his suggestion, I also expect the curtesy of "putting one's money where one's mouth is...." even if that mouth happens to full of chili.... Warm regards.-C2

P.S. I have noticed a huge jump in the EPs today. I was only able to find one real bugger. Maybe my email paid off after all.


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1/14/2008 12:42:06 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  Anybody with a registered log-in is inside the arena. Anybody with a few tidbits of knowledge of photography can get a spot on the team.
If the contest is stacked or if it's selected based on who took the picture, no one seems to say their own efp's are based on who they are, or based on generating gallery sales or class enrollment. And not on being a good picture.
What is it about a first round that says a photo can't be noticed on aesthetic reasons. It was spelled out for everybody that efp was to let people know about a photo that was found to be interesting, that there was something about it that made an editor take notice. That's not something that is confined only to things of technical merit. If that had any money to put anywhere about it, there would be no pictures with any amount of blur that would make it to any round. So much for the vertical blur to the forest pictures.
Mick, you miss other things too. But that's your right.


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1/14/2008 4:47:44 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  I used to have good luck with the contest. Whatever reasons I only get the occasional EFP now I still know what I did back when I did win so here's a couple of pointers.

#1. Enter every day of the month.

#2. Cover every category if possible. I never shot people so I never entered people but when I used to win I always had at least 3 photos in the other nine categories.

#3. As one of the instructor's said in another thread, study the winners. Not to copy but to see what the winners have in common that attracts the judges eye. As an example, if you'll look at the N&L category there are a lot of sunset/sunrise photos. Not too many landscapes place that were taken during the day. I see a few daytime shots sneak through but for the most part the judges seem attracted to early morning or evening. Additionally, study some of the instructor's galleries. I'm sure the judges (after the finalists are announced) are probably instructors.

If I think of more I'll post them but if I could narrow it down to just one suggestion that would be cover all the categories.


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1/14/2008 5:19:20 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  "That's not something that is confined only to things of technical merit. If that had any money to put anywhere about it, there would be no pictures with any amount of blur that would make it to any round. So much for the vertical blur to the forest pictures."

Gregory, even vertical blur shots of forests have technical merit. You can take a dozen of them and maybe only one will look like it was done with skill. BTW, some people hate them. I've seen them called BBR (blurred beyond recognition). I personally love them.


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1/14/2008 5:23:49 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  That would be something like panning in straight lines without showing any deviation. Straight across and level, or straight up and down.
But it's not only those kind of blurred photos. Blur from the wind or subject movement is not linear.
And like you said, sometimes it doesn't look right. And that also means that sometimes it does look right. And something that just looks right isn't confined to technical merit. That's aesthetic stuff.


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1/14/2008 5:47:45 PM

 
KV Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2005
  I just wish BP would fix the servers so you can get into the site regularly. Not sure if they changed hosts but gotten bad lately. Getting to be REAL pain. I swear the 2 times I get times to come on a day, I am constanly waiting for the site to respond. I waited 10 minutes this am and a half hour last night, 2 times. Having problem uploading, the website off line, you name it. It is also logging me off during uploads. (didn't want to talk EFP's, we have beaten that dog to death) :) AND would someone borrow me 25.00 bucks to enter the cash conest?


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1/14/2008 5:57:34 PM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  Sorry to beat you to death with my concerns Vicki, but this morning I felt authentically bad (and so try to be sensitive:)). Also, there are other threads. Maybe you should start one on site access issues.-C2


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1/14/2008 6:19:20 PM

 
KV Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2005
  Please, you are not the only one in the contest, not the only one not getting EFP's. I am, along with you and the others. I am being a heck of alot more sensitive that you are the other 1000 members that don't get a EFP every day. Everyone feels bad sometimes about it, you are not the only one, although after your last comment I do believe you think you are. Sorry your photos aren't getting EFP's.


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1/14/2008 6:28:46 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  I'm getting very many either :D.


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1/14/2008 6:56:36 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  Where's my head??? I completely forgot tip #1 if you want EFPs and to win...Don't gripe about BP in the forums :D.


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1/14/2008 6:58:39 PM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  Hello,

Vicki if you read my earlier comments, I do acknowledge that there are many images that deserve but do not get EFPS, which is why I think that we need to make a greater effort to acknowledge each others work. Also, I really do not have any great illusions as to the limitations of my own talents. I know that I am a good photographer, but I am by no means at the top of the pack. I simply work hard and do what I do, and admittedly my photographs do not really have that BP look anyway.

I can not say what other people are thinking, I can only say what I am thinking. This is why my rant was a personal one. I understand that everyone gets in a funk. Lets support each other. If I could give out some EPs than you would certainly deserve some!

I also understand that after this series of posts I will never see an EP again. So much more for the rest of ya!-C2


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1/14/2008 7:47:03 PM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  All I was really trying to convey is that like the 1000 other people on this site, I am also allowed to express my disappointments (regardless of consequence). This is all. -C2


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1/14/2008 7:52:25 PM

 
KV Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2005
  I don't think BP has ever held bad will on members voicing their frustation or opinions. They won't hold it againest you. I am sure they are frustrated with trying to reward images on a lower level and getting beat up about it. I personally don't like them, never have. If I could turn them off I would. I wish BP would award some without giving the whole first round one, hold some of the fun mystery of the finalist. That has kinda been lost and everyone really enjoyed that.

Love your photos, what they mean to you, what you have tried to express in them. No one can take that away, it's an achievement only you can give and receive. Tony stated it well I think from a Pro (famous one to boot) side of things. It's very subjective, not all positive and very competitive and not fun all the time. It maybe tomorrow someone will really be in awe of a photo of yours. You will take 10,000's of images in your life time that are remarkable and speak to you. Like the rest of us, not all speak to everyone, and when that one speaks to a large crowd and there is recognition , it's priceless. They say there is only one, once in a life time photo, keep trying to acheive that for you. It's the only real goal there is in photography. I have not had mine, but I will. I know I won't have one everyday, or every month. Create, express and inspire.


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1/14/2008 8:09:19 PM

 
Susan M. Campbell
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/6/2004
  I find this discussion very interesting. Just this morning, I e-mailed a BP friend to ask her if she noticed that the EP's seem to be less frequent. I'm not saying all of my photos deserve one but I have gone into several galleries of members who usually get a lot of EP's and even their last 3 or 4 pictures don't have one. I'm just curious as to what has changed.


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1/25/2008 11:48:47 AM

 
Lisa J. Boulden
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/2/2006
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  Hi, guys! I'm new to the discussion boards. Came to see if others had noted a steep drop in EP's over the last 2 weeks. Not to seem whine-y or anything, but after a particular good start in January (14 of 15 entries got badges), I've gotten only 1 since the 15th (and I've entered each day :( ). I'm kind of relieved to see that others are noticing this, too. And, Susan, like you, I've noticied this in other's galleries, too, like you describe.
I'm getting a little discouraged. Granted, in all honesty, I don't feel that all of my recent images deserve EP's, but there are a few that I really thought were pretty nice. Many were treated with the Fractalius effect. I thought that, perhaps, the judges were getting a little sick of that popular plug-in. Could the BP judges possibly be the same judges as the cash contest; busy judging the OTHER contest? Maybe it's a good thing that I'm getting a little discouraged... It's helping to ward off my BP addiction a bit. LOL.

I really don't mean to come across as whiney. Just curious...


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1/30/2008 7:13:06 PM

 
Ken Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/11/2005
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  Lisa, I doubt BP is judging the cash contest just yet. They have most of February to do that...no different than what they'll do for the Jan contest. I've noticed EPs are like a pendulum, momentum swings left and right.. perhaps now they're in a lull with handing out a bunch...but it could change soon. Heck, if you have 15 for the month, then you're doing pretty good I think.


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1/30/2008 7:21:38 PM

 
cheryl casey
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/23/2006
  Add me to the list of folks that came to the forums looking to see if there was a thread about the change in EP's. I have submitted a pic to the contest pretty much daily for the past year and definitely have noticed a change in EFP's. The drop started many weeks ago but seems to have really dried up the past many days. I was curious about the change for me personally, but clearly the drop seems to be pretty much across the board. Good to know!


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1/31/2008 7:23:05 AM

 
Sarah G   Reading this has been fun. I've done so without saying anything all month. I too used to get more EFPs, not that I've been here long. (I also KNOW that I am a David WITHOUT a sling in this world called BP.)

Can you believe that I actually got "mad" the other day when BP gave me an EFP. It was clear, had good POV, was some what artsy and I had gotten some comments on it other than the usual people. However, it is also one of the most useless pictures I've taken. (It isn't up on my gallery now. Most of my EFPs aren't.)

Have you thought that perhaps there's a chance that BP is still giving out TOO MANY EFPs.

It's their business what they do. If they want to give out even fewer they can do it. In the end it is all rather irrelevant.

I had a long time BPer, who still gets all the EFPs she used to, tell me this...

"Please don't define your wonderful work by BP's attention, or lack of attention! You are producing some fabulous work and getting better all the time!"

Take her words to heart too...

"Don't define your work by BP's attention, or lack of attention."

In the end it isn't worth it.

Try defining it by how far you've come instead.



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1/31/2008 12:04:17 PM

 
Susan M. Campbell
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/6/2004
  I hope this doesn't sound petty, but I find myself wondering sometimes if more EP's are given to the people who sign up for classes. I want to believe that BP wouldn't do that but in all honesty, I have seen some pictures that were given EP's and they were pretty bad in my opinion. I'm not expecting EP's on all of my shots but as someone else stated earlier, I'm confused as to what the judges are looking for. I am a bit discouraged but will continue to keep trying.


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1/31/2008 12:40:46 PM

 
Michael Skelton  . 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/16/2006
  No Susan , I don't believe people who have taken one or more classes have any more chances of getting noticed then people who haven't , I have taken a class and you have 2 more finalist then me.

I think the biggest problem is that the workload is just to overwhelming. The best advice I can give is just keep developing your own vision.Dont let the EP's make you a prisoner from your own developement.


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1/31/2008 1:22:43 PM

 
Sarah G   Guess discouragement comes from veiwpoint. I'd be glad to have your finalists AND Second Place win AND POTD. I have none.

Then again maybe I don't want them...it appears that they make one discouraged.


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1/31/2008 1:27:10 PM

 
Kai Eiselein
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/21/2003
  Well, I'm 0 for 6 so far this month. Three images to go.


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1/31/2008 2:38:14 PM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  I did not get a single EP last month despite the fact that I entered everyday. I saw plenty of EPs that were not all that good, and more than a few finalists that were mediocre. What does this mean? NOTHING!

When it all boils down..... It really is not worth caring about, and all of this score keeping is getting a bit old for me. This after all is not why we take pictures. I do not think that I will rejoin BP. In the meantime, I will let my own stubborn eyes decide the worth of my work. Happy shooting-C2


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1/31/2008 5:19:47 PM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  I still have not gotten even a single EP for three months despite daily enteries. I definitely think that sending and email to BP asking why certain images were selected (images that were definitely bad in terms of technical concerns) has hurt me in this way... They are completely unresponsive when I inquire as to the selection process. I am getting pretty disenchanted actually! I will not enter the cash contest until they are more transparant as to what this selection process is. It just doesn't make sense to throw money out the window.-C2


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2/9/2008 1:01:12 PM

 
KV Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2005
  Your not alone Christina, I have no idea why they pickw what they do including the ones the pick of mine. I do think its totally unprofessional of them not to respond. Just promise Jim you won't buy his new book coming out until he responds :)


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2/9/2008 2:25:24 PM

 
Debbie E. Payne
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/21/2006
  Wow, I didn't realize that so many people are asking the same question that I asked in my Critiquing club just this past month. I just had a "feeling" that this was so. Anyhow, reading this thread has been both frustrating and at the same time comforting that so many people feel the same way. Not to mention, disturbing -- that we are putting so much store in the "little gold stars" that we are failing to see the big picture: EFP's are here to make us work harder at our art and serve as an occasional recognition for a job well-done. For my part, they have nudged me along in my photographic journey over the last year and a half and make me work harder. And by working harder, I am learning to work smarter. As a result, I am beginning to become the photographer that I want to be. Do I still get excited when an EFP comes my way? Of course I do. Do I get frustrated when I don't get any for a couple of weeks or longer? Yes, I do. But not as much as I used to. I guess it's finally dawning on me that getting EFP's,however nice they are to get, does not measure my photographic ability; nor does it take away from the pleasure I get in taking photographs.

Actually I think that BP is doing a great job with their selections. It must be a very difficult job considering there are so many entries each month. Remember that the judges are people and people, by nature, are subjective. An image can be technically perfect but if it doesn't tug at someone's heartstrings, it probably won't make the cut.Period.

As to the judges responding - don't hold your breath. Why would they have to defend every decision they have to make? Where else in life do you see this happening? If the judges are BP instructors then they are employed by BP and they will follow BP's guidelines for selecting images. Those guidelines are there for all of us to read in black and white in the Contest section. As someone in the thread said so succinctly: BP's running the contest, we're entering it. BP is a business and a major part of that business is helping us become better photographers and that is certainly happening. As we become increasingly better; the contest is going to become increasingly more difficult.



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3/28/2008 11:35:23 PM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  Hello, I do think that I have the right to say what I have said, but do respect your opinion. In reality, I do not much care about the EPs anymore and this is certainly not what motivates my photography. If it were, than I would have put down my camera months ago. Also, I have noticed that there has been an improvement in the selection process. While I would argue that some truly fine images are going unacknowledged, it is more difficult to find an image that is overtly mediocre (or even bad).

I do think that BP does have a certain burden to defend their decisions. If I am going to pay for something than I want to know that the product is worth buying. I will not pay for any more courses or for the cash contest until there is more transparency in the selection process. This is just my opinion.-Christina


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3/29/2008 8:35:22 AM

 
Judy Williams   I have noticed that since the paying contests were introduced, my little badges have gone completely by the wayside, since I have chosen to only enter the free ones. I guess that is their prerogative but I do find it disappointing. Oh well, it is just a "virtual ribbon" of sorts, so it isn't going to matter at all ten years from now. LOL


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3/29/2008 8:40:42 AM

 
Kara L. Hendricks
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/18/2004
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  I was wondering why there have been no comments at all on the EFP watch thread... Does anyone know what happened? Was there a fight going on or something? Seems a strange thread for BP to end... I only chime in to say what my EFP are up to... So maybe I missed some heated discussion??? And hey, is anyone going to start another??

Just curious..:)


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3/29/2008 9:49:41 AM

 
Kara L. Hendricks
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/18/2004
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  OK, I just read what Vicki said about not giving BP permission to email her thumbnails... I don't get that...

What am I missing?


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3/29/2008 9:54:38 AM

 
Ken Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/11/2005
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  Kara, this is an old thread that got bumped to the top when Debbie added her comment. The normal EFP thread is still out there..


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3/29/2008 10:14:44 AM

 
Kara L. Hendricks
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/18/2004
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  Ahhh.. I see.. Thanks Ken!!!


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3/29/2008 10:55:36 AM

 
Aimee C. Eisaman
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/13/2007
  You go Debbie Payne! Bp does have a section in the free contest area that gives tips on how to win and also talks about how they make their decisions. This site is for everyone......even the point and shoot moms. They may get an EP on the cutest face you have ever seen and it may be a little blurry. EP's like this are to encourage beginners and help them to grow. I have had some decent shots that didn't get EPs and some technically questionable ones that did, but they must have had something about them.....I try to look at my photos post EP (or lack of) and see why or why they weren't chosen. Since I have many EP's and no finalists I see that most of the time I have great ideas, but technical problems that hold me back. I now know that I'm on the right track with my eye, but need to work with my camera skills. This is learning....this is what BP is all about! As for not getting as many.....have you thought about the number of people that have joined BP even this month.....I bet the numbers are staggering and with more people the competition goes up. Also you can resubmit your photo another month and maybe it will pass by a different editor that will see that special something that you see in it. Just gotta have understanding that we humans (BP included) are not perfect and each see this world in totally different ways! I do however think that BP is making a mistake in not responding to your questions. Even a short note pointing you to the free contest section where some of their "ways" are layed out. I wish everyone luck and understanding!


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3/29/2008 12:13:07 PM

 
Debbie E. Payne
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/21/2006
  Christina - We are all justified in our opinions. I will have to agree that like a few of you, I have had a couple of EFP's revoked for no apparent reason and I quite frankly don't have a clue about the entire selection process and am just happy when one comes my way. I, too, have been surprised that some of my images got as far as finalist while others didn't and IMO were so much better. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and each "beholder" is unique! Best of luck to you with March's process!


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3/29/2008 9:45:02 PM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  Sorry, but the idea that EPS are awarded to technically poor images for encouragement value seems a bit odd to me.... How can such a thing be subjective? Who do you encourage? If so, than one must remember that BP is a business like any other and so any encouragement value that an EP has is inherently fiscal in nature. Also, this idea leads to an inverse, does this mean that EPs are not awarded for discouragement value? How can this sort of thing have any basis in empiricism? I am just throwing this out and do not really want to cause controversy. Nor do I believe that the fact that I do not receive that many EPs is meant to discourage me (except maybe if it means that some marketing guru at BP thinks this will make me pay for more services).

Also, as for March's process, thank you Debbie for the encouragement, but I am already out of the game. I guess this is why I do not really like the EPs that much. It ruins the fun of entering the contest. To speak quite truthfully, it does not excite me anymore. Getting an EP for me does not provide even the slightest charge, nor does not getting one lead to any disappointment. For me, BP has lost its anticipation value, and I no longer get a charge from it. I simply have become apathetic.-Christina


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3/31/2008 12:46:46 AM

 
Aimee C. Eisaman
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/13/2007
  Christina,

You do have some ideas a that make a person think, but I guess we will never know what exactly the BP powers have in their heads. I'm sure they will not be telling us their marketing secrets anytime soon. Sorry the fun has beeen lost for you! Hope you find a place that you feel better about! As for me I'm still happy here at BP!


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3/31/2008 4:39:31 AM

 
Aimee C. Eisaman
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/13/2007
  Christina,

You do have some ideas a that make a person think, but I guess we will never know what exactly the BP powers have in their heads. I'm sure they will not be telling us their marketing secrets anytime soon. Sorry the fun has beeen lost for you! Hope you find a place that you feel better about! As for me I'm still happy here at BP!


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3/31/2008 4:42:40 AM

 
Christina C. Moore
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  There are things that I still like about BP. Also, I am glad that you a great love for creating art via your photography and that BP helps to foster that.-C2


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4/1/2008 1:33:11 PM

 
Aimee C. Eisaman
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/13/2007
  I'm glad that I'm not shunned by the others here because I do a lot of DD work. Many other sites frown on that sort of thing and that is something I just can't give up! I'm addicted to PS!


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4/1/2008 2:14:06 PM

 
Susan Jane Allen
BetterPhoto Member Since: 8/20/2005
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  I generally don't read much in the forums unless I have a technical question to ask, but went searching tonight and zeroed into this thread because since March 23rd I have suddenly had no EPs at all. If my memory isn't flawed, I used to have about one in three or four. I mean it was such a complete and sudden drop to nothing, I was thinking perhaps something happened at BP, like staff shortage. I'm not that great, but compared to what I was doing before, don't think my quality has gone down that drastically... For the past couple of nights, I looked through the EPs and though there were a lot in March I didn't see any uploaded before March 23, so I was almost sure something had happened at BP. But then I got the bright idea to look at Ken Smith's gallery as he always gets them---and lo and behold, he's getting them. Really strange---and even stranger, didn't realize how much I counted on those badges for encouragement!


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4/3/2008 1:02:07 PM

 
Susan Jane Allen
BetterPhoto Member Since: 8/20/2005
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  Really strange. I just wrote a comment here and it didn't take. Just trying again, for curiosity sake, though don't have the energy to write my comment all over again!


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4/3/2008 1:06:32 PM

 
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