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Photography Question 
Lani L. Ho
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/5/2004

Printin 8x10/11x14 from Reble xt

I am still purplexed on how to print an 8x10 and a 11x14 from an 8mp Reble XT. I want to be able to print the whole picture without cropping...and not lose quality...what do I need to do? I gave a full file to be printed for me as a 8x10...when I got it back, it was cut down and did not even fill the whole 8x10...why...what do I need to do to print the whole photo...or is it not possibel...? Thanks...

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12/14/2007 9:45:30 AM

Bob Fately   Lani, the fact is the ratio of length to width of an 8x10 or 11x14 is not the same as the ratio of your imaging chip.

As with 35MM film, the ratio of length to width is usually 1.5. If you o the math, you can see that an 8x10 is not wide enough - to have a full-frame image 8" tall you need to make a print that's 12" wide.

You see, there is no one standard ratio in the world of photography - from the 4x5 sheet film (which of course bcomes a "full frame" 8x10) to 6cmx6cm (Hasselblads) to 35MM (24x36MM frame size) and a bunch of others, various cameras have different ratios of width to height. Thus, you have to make do with what you have to work with.

So, you can get a full frame image on 8x10 paper by printing a 667x10 image, or use different paper to get the entire image onto an 8x12.

Hope that helps

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12/14/2007 10:20:03 AM

Alan N. Marcus   Hi Lani H,

The common paper print sizes we use predate photography. Photography came along from the brains of Joseph Nicephore Niepce who took the first picture in 1826. His first measured about 10 inches by 11 inches.

The paper sizes you known and love mostly are born out of the European paper making business. The Dutch perfected making paper in sheets in the late 1700ís The sheets measured 44 inches wide, the comfortable reach of the outstretched hands of the man operating the Hollander paper making machine. Now it was important not to waste any paper when cutting this sheet into smaller sizes. One popular cut was 8 x 10 inches. This maximized the yield as the edges of the sheet were deformed and trimmed away. For a long time this size was applauded for drawing and letter paper. Cameras used a glass plate negative, not film. The glass used in the 8 x 10 picture frame was readily available. Cameras were made to accept this size, glass plates were the forerunner to film.

As films improved it was possible to make enlargements. One popular negative size was 4 x 5 inches which could be blown up to 8 x 10 without cropping.

Your camera spots a chip that replaces film. This chip images a picture 14.8 mm by 22.2 mm. Converting this millimeter size to inches, your cameraís chip measures 0.5826 by 0.874 inches. When we enlarge or blow-up we must enlarge both dimensions exactly the same. If we donít the resulting picture will be distorted (warped).

Now some numbers blowing-up both sides equally:
Blow up 6 time (6x) print size is 3 Ĺ x 5 ľ
Blow up 6.8x print size is 4 x 6
Blow up 8.6x print size is 5 x 7 Ĺ
Blow up 11.44 x print size is 6 ĺ x 10
Blow up 12 x print size is 7 x 10 Ĺ
Blow up 12 x print size is 7 x 10
Blow up 13.7 x print size is 8 x 12
Blow up 17.16 x print size is 10 x 15

You canít get an 8x10 no matter what unless you will settle for a lopsided print. To do this the height 0.5826 must be blown-up 10.11x and the width 0.874 must be blown-up 11.44 x.

You canít make an 11x14 because the height magnification must be 18.89x and the width magnification must be 16x. A disparity!

Trying to think of an analogy...
Tom weighing 140 pounds, is twice as big as James who is 70 pounds, You measure Jamesís pants and attempt to make a pair for Tom by multiplying Jamesís waist and leg length by 2. Sorry, Jamesís legs are shorter by proportion than Tomís. The pants you make fit Tom at the waist but the paint legs are too short. You see, Tom is fat but has short legs.

Alan Marcus (insignificant and marginal technical stuff)

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12/14/2007 4:07:16 PM

Christopher Budny
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/3/2005
  Lani, one other thing to consider as you deal with 8x10 and 11x14 and any other print sizes that are likely not the same ratio of length-to-width as your camera's file...

The best thing for you to do, in my view, is crop your camera file yourself, before submitting to print, specifically cropping to an 8x10 -or- to an 11x14 format (but do this on your large, full-pixel file.)

For instance, my Rebel XTi's untouched file is 2592x3888 pixels---a 2:3 format; it will make great 4x6", 6x9", 8x12" prints without cropping, right out of the camera. But for all other print sizes, something must be cropped (or, you live with those white borders appearing along 2 sides of your print).

So, in your editor, first set the Crop tool to an 8x10 format (for vertical, portrait orientation images; otherwise, use 10x8 if it is a landscape orientation shot.) Drag out the largest crop box possible on your image, then move that crop box around, deciding what you want to remain in the cropped image, and what gets cut. Make the crop and save that as a new file (perhaps with "8x10" in the name). Repeat this process on the untouched original file, for an 11x14 crop, saving as a new file name.

The reason I suggest this method, is that you eliminate the white borders that the lab must otherwise use, if they are not going to crop your image to run edge-to-edge, and if a lab DOES crop your image to eliminate white borders, THEY will choose what to eliminate---YOU should be in control of what gets cut out; you can position the crop box to preserve what is most important in the image, before you send the lab a file for printing.

One last note, then, thinking about all of this. When you use this method, you will quickly see onscreen just how much of an image must be cut out, to fit certain favorite print sizes---always keep that in mind when composing your future shots, if you know "I'm gonna want an 8x10 of this!"---that way you can be sure to zoom out, back up, or recompose, just so you leave enough space in the original composition for cropping without cutting into the subject matter at crop time.

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12/15/2007 6:03:14 PM

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