 Mindaugas Rackaitis |
Better photo etiquette Hi there, let me introduce myself, since I am more or less new here. I am an amateur photographer with interest in developing better technical and artistic knowledge of taking breathtaking photographs. I really enjoy this site and like to watch photos published here. I was here for some time trying to understand how it works here and I see some really beautiful photos though some could be better in one way or another. However when I did write my constructive critiques on the photos, they either disappeared or no one even bothered to notice. So I would like to ask what type of critiques are common in this community. Thanks
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Sharon Day |
Welcome to BP! Speaking only for myself, I do not offer critique unless someone specifically requests a critique. Even then I am very likely to pass up the request. I have found from my own experiences that most people asking for critique do not really want one. You can point out things you see in the photo that could be approved and they might thank you but ignore what you offer. It is not worth the trouble for me. There are many members here the just enjoy sharing a photo they enjoy and do not want critique, but rather want to see their friends mentioning that they enjoyed their photo. If you really wish to help out folks visit the area of the site where the photographer requests a critique. I think they are a little better received if posted under Constructive Critique. Here is a link where you will find them. Be sure it is the photographer requesting the critique or you will likely run in to more disappearing critiques.
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Mindaugas Rackaitis |
Thank you Sharon for clarification.
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Sharon Day |
You're welcome!
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Samuel Smith |
well mindaugas,honest critiques are just that.sure it's your opinion of that critique,yet still a critique. once you fell your actual opinion may incite a negative response,is it or will it be an honest critique? I believe this to be a great website where opinions should be just that.then if a majority of opinions swing one way or the other,maybe a personal reasessment might be in line. sharon is absolutely right about miffing members off,but the concern should be aimed at photograpghy and the goal of becoming better. there is no real clarification,yet,what one is truly comfortable with and if real honesty is intended,it would seem nothing wrong was done even if percieved in the wrong way. I worry about dissappearing opinions,as you brought up,and could not care less about dissappearing critiques. hope your well,sam
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
if someone asks the critique, if not, either just say its a nice photo or dont say anything... alot of folks seem to just like to give a critique on stuff that is sooo minor that its not even worth mentioning and some like to critique on stuff that they really have no clue on what they are doing or saying.. others still will just say negative stuff just to look cool.. or funny.. its like this every where. if I like a pic, I will say so, but, I will never say something like "oh wow, great shot, except, the lighting is wrong, the shirt is blown out, its a tad soft and the colors are off." I'll leave that to the "cool" folk who give opinions when the photographer isnt even asking for them.
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Mindaugas Rackaitis |
Sam, thanks for response, though being not native English speaker I had to read it several times in order to understand what you meant. I am not talking about the critiques that are dishonest nor about negative opinions, though only very positive opinions oftentimes might be dishonest too and an impediment for further learning. Don't you think so ? Hope you're well too. Craig, thank you also for answering to the question. After some time I thought that it's as you described - either say good or nothing, but I imagine that there are a lot of folks that concede with nothing more that with something, at least a direction for improvement. I found this site after some time spent on another site which boasts as a critique site, and I do not notice there that there would be "cool" people that say negative stuff, surely there are some but in my opinion absolute minority.
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Todd Bennett |
Mindaugas, Sam and Craig are both right. To add a little to what they said, it seems as though a lot of the people asking for constructive critiques are actually asking for a "thataboy" or a "good job" from their friends and when they get a truly constructive critique they get mad and bash the person that gave the critique. Therefore people tend to shy away from giving them or they just give the "good shot" so as to avoid confrontation. Then you've got the people that just "critique" or "ask for a critique" to get a war of words started. As Craig said, they pick the shot apart over little items that make little to no difference. A lot of people do have trouble with Sam's comments and I've even had a little run in with him; but, after reading more of his posts there is definitely something to gain from what he says. It's somewhat cryptic; but, none the less, usually on target. IMHO, it is hard to give a constructive critique without knowing what the photog was trying to accomplish, which is usually not given when the photo is posted. What I mean is that there are many rules in photography; but, any one of those rules, or, all of those rules can be broken in the try to be different and creative. So, who is to say what is right and what is wrong? Just my 2 cents worth.
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Samuel Smith |
are you saying their chronilogical age exceeds their emotional age?just..trying..to help out? some are just plain offended mindaugas and I don't think even they can justify their response.with your intent,i say welcome,sam
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
i have a shot, its of a farmer, sitting on a bale of hay resting while his cows are standing in the BG... it was taken at a country fair in the early morning, inside one of the building.. I saw this scene while walking throough and couldnt ass it up, it was like street photography, it just was what it was, a moment in time and it conveys a strong message to me.. it depics how tired the old farmer is and how much he loves his animals as it looks like he has spent the night with his cows. Anyhow, I have entered it and entered it and entered it in soo many contests I lost count, not one finalist, winner, nothing.. I have posted it on several sites and got nothing but "great shot" "powerfull image" awesome shot" Blahh blahh blahh... then I posted it for honest critique.. I got nothing but, "lighting is a little hasc=sh", the BG is too distracting, next time choose a less cluttered BG" stuff like that..lol to me, none of that matters as the shot wasnt staged, its real, it was where it was.. was I supposed to ask him to move out of the sun? go to a different location? lol anyhow, I entered a print into a local fine arts competition and it took 2nd place in portraits... so, I guess what im saying is, most critiques need to be taken with a HUE grain of salt because you never know who it is doing the critiquing.. could be a 40 year pro or a 14 year old with his first point and shoot camera!
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Todd Bennett |
Yeah Sam, I guess I am. Craig, a lot of people can't see the forest for the trees.
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Mindaugas Rackaitis |
Todd, thanks for responding to this thread. From your response I have the same feeling as Sam has - immaturity of people. That is, of course, difficult to deal with and I would guess needs full time moderator, who would be constantly alleviating conflicts. That might not fall under the business plan. On the other hand you say that there is no way to say what's right what's wrong. However I did look through the pictures of couple of photographers and noticed that one of them constantly had pictures tilted to one side, the other was shooting flames and was getting pictures out of focus. I did politely told that most of the first photographers pictures are tilted and could be easy fix in photoshop. Besides I did considerable shooting of flames and I was interested in the pictures published here, though I wanted to share how to take the pics of flames since they are really tricky (especially when the flame is from outdoor fireplace or campfire). One of my pics is uploaded as "head of a dragon". But shortly after my posting both photographers removed their pictures, first all tilted ones, the other all flame pictures. I really feel that I just spent some time trying to help people though for nothing. But I can understand that some pictures could be more sentimental than others. Craig, I looked up your picture and it's really nice and powerful, however on my crappy screen and the size it is posted here I cannot see much more. I do believe that it is very dear to you as some of the picture to me and everybody else. As Todd mentioned it's very difficult to guess what is right for the majority. You are also right by saying that some critiques could be written by very experienced pros other by very beginners, and you yourself have to critique the critique (oxymoron ?). Though sometimes even beginner could notice things that are not pleasing to the eye, though might not be able to express that in exact technical terms. Does photography have to be pleasing to the eye ? I think mostly yes (except maybe PJ photograhy).
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David A. Bliss |
Mindaugas, welcome to the site, and also, welcome to the wonderful world of (any) photo site critique! These are my feelings on the matter. Could be right, could be wrong... ;-) Don't give unsolicited critiques. They will not, for the most part, be well received. Unfortunately, most people don't want to hear what they are doing wrong. This is not conceit, or even poor attitude. It has to do with putting your heart into something, and then have others "tear it down." Once they can move past this point, they can truly make strides in becoming better. Sharon was correct. Go to the Constructive Critique area. Give thorough, thoughtful critiques. Say what is wrong with it, and what is right. Of course it is your opinion, but that is what ALL critiques are... opinion. I feel strongly that critiques are important. Not only does it help the photographer who posted the picture, but it helps the one who critiques as well. On a different site of which I am no longer a member, I became a mentor, and helped a number of people improve, and in the process, was able to apply much of it to my own work. I found out I know a lot about photography, but for some reason was not using that knowledge in when I was shooting. I am still working a lot of what I learned into my own work. So, I say yes, go to the critique section and critique away!
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- Dennis Flanagan Contact Dennis Flanagan Dennis Flanagan's Gallery |
Personally, I am all for critical critiques. I agree will all the above comment though. If you want a critical critique, ask for it and take it graciously. My word of advice when receiving critical critique, either good or bad, is go to the gallery of the person offering advice and see if their work supports what they say. If you admire their word, send them a personal message thanking them, or asking questions. My experience on BP is that most are more than willing to share their "wisdom".
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David A. Bliss |
Dennis, I respectfully disagree with your point about checking their portfolio to see if they are "good enough" to be giving a critique. First, step back from your work, and let go of any preconcieved feelings of how good the shot is. Look at it with a critical eye. Does the critique make sense? Would the image improve with the suggestions? Do the suggestions fit with your convictions (if they suggest to clone people out of a shot that you were using to show the impact of people on an area, as an example)? Once you have gone through these steps (and hopefully others I didn't mention), then I think it is appropriate to view their work. If there work isn't "good," in your opinion, does it matter, if the critique was correct? And if their work is awe inspiring, look at what they have done and use it to learn.
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John P. Sandstedt |
The Heretic speaks again: In reading this thread I became appalled at the dialogue and the fact that so little addressed the issues as asked. The most significant deficiency of the images uploaded to the site lies in the fact that many makers don't critically assess their own work in the first instance. The second lies in the fact that members are able to upload one image each day into the contest - thereby creating an enormous pool of pictures that our erstwhile judges must wade through. In my opinion, most should be deep-sixed before uploading. And, if the Editor's First Picks are valid, any passed image should be deleted so that we only need to view the real otential candidates for a medal. Third, by entering the contest, too many folks comment with a "Great Shot,' or some other inanity. There is very little in the comment after comment appearing in the "discussion" pages. In general, it's extremely difficult to provide constructive critcism and, no one should ever offer "critical critiques," as suggested above. In the first place I shudder at the descriptive and second, I don't know what a critical critique really is. I've offered my suggestions to folks that have asked for critiques in any number of threads. I guess, in some cases, I've done something right as a number of folks have corresponded with me directly, asking me to similarly critique their work. There are any number of members who can effectively critique an image and, Gee, even the BP Judges sometimes get into the act - although they, too, often don't offer suggestions for improvement of a given image. Judging, critiquing, evaluation - whatever anyone calls the process, it's tough. And, it should begin with the maker's assessment of his/her own work. Once a person can impartially assess his/her own images, and only then, should that person offer any kind of critique.
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Todd Bennett |
John, I don't mean to split hairs with you; but, we did answer his question and we even went further to explain why we answered the way we did. His question was the very last sentence of his post: "So I would like to ask what type of critiques are common in this community."
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
I see his "appalled", and raise him a "thunderstruck".
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Todd Bennett |
Is that an AD/DC "Thunderstruck" or a regular "thunderstruck?"
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Adjective, not the verb.
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Sharon Day |
Fold :o)!
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Samuel Smith |
i still believe any,yes any photo posted here on bp should be open to critique. yes there are those that trash photos,and those that say great photo..what?ya can't sort through the crop.as suggested,visiting a gallery? I will say there are young adults,kids,viewing our so called adult actions,responses,making judgements. the question was,can I make a comment,critique,without offending a member.it's still yes and no. next question,though help is offered,is it going to be accepted? chip on the shoulder,pre-concieved notions?bad day at the hair salon? more members should be involved and voice an opinion.then we best know where we are? sam
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
There's plenty to choose from in the discussions, contest, and the q&a. Ones that are only in the galleries seems akin to just openly saying what you think of somebody's outfit as they're walking down the street. If you like it you may say so. But if not, you don't say anything. The judges are still the judges, so they wouldn't be erstwhile, they would be subsequent. According to the thesaurus.
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Samuel Smith |
i still say something,given,with a smile on my face.gawd,ya got a tatoo? I hadn't heard it's not legal. even if you tease the youth,being an oldie,you still interact,yeah the wisdom and tact thing,humor.. I say mindaugas,you have the right,as we all should,to regulate ourselves.to make comments and try to understand the intent when a comment is made. I suppose at times we pride ourselves in our work,yet in some photos fledglings surpass pros.probably luck and just being there,yet captured..so. I was always a stegasauras kinda person,sam
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