 Vincent Montalbano |
Compare Canon 30D with Nikon D80 We've been shooting with a Canon 20D, and our flash, and fill flash results have been very erratic at best. Typically, we shoot in P, or AV mode, and our wide shots are often very over exposed. We will also have shots that are very under exposed. My wife does children's photography mostly outdoors /available light. Because of the nature of her work she will use the camera's metering system, usually set on evaluative, and will often use fill flash with her subjects. We are now considering the purchase of a second camera and the obvious choice would be a Canon 30D. However, we are also considering a Nikon D80 based on what I've heard about their flash technology, and that it is better and more consistent than Canon's. Now I know there are Canon and Nikon fans out there that might be a little subjective with their replies, but I would really appreciate some very objective opinions please before we make this purchase decision. Thanks
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William Schuette |
Vincent, I am a Nikon shooter and the SB600 and SB800 speedlights are great but WHY would you consider ading a camera when none of your existing lenses would be compatible? just a thought. Bill
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Vincent Montalbano |
Thanks Bill, we're ready for our second DSLR and as I mentioned, I've heard a lot of good things about Nikon's flash technology and the many patents they have for their process. I certainly understand the issue of moving to a new platform, but I'm also tired of trying to fix bad flash shots in Photoshop. We will not stop using the Canon, and if the 30D handles flash better than the 20D that will be the body we buy. But if Nikon comes out the winner, getting the starter kit with a lens, and probably a shoe flash will be my choice. Price of the two kits is probably very close. The only incremental charge will be for a good Nikon flash unit.
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Michael A. Bielat |
I actually just made the switch for my business to go from Nikon to Canon! Regarding the Switch: Nikon does have an amazing creative lighting system and when you throw 2-4 SB-800's in a photo job you get amazing results! I switched because Canon is always coming out with new stuff for the pro shooter (Nikon is making cheaper and more stuff for the beginner), Canon uses the CMOS sensor in their cameras (Nikon offers it only in their D2Xs), Canon has some models which offer full frame sensors (not Nikon), and most importantly, Canon's stuff is always available (Nikon has backorders left and right and they discontinue great products like the external speedlight battery pack) ---------------------------------- Go back to your basics and you will find the answer to your issues. You are shooting in digital. Check your histogram & preview the image and adjust from there when in doubt. Take test shots and practice... Shoot more around sunrise and sunset for the best natural lighting when possible. P and Av are great but are not the say all, be all. They do not work magic and only estimate based upon what the sensors tell and average in. Only when in Manual mode can you truly get what you want out of the photo! You should try to stay in the same spot when shooting. If you get close and far with the same settings then the light simply is hitting too hard or too soft at different distances producing a vast array of different looks! The fill flash technique works like this in essence: Flash light has a knack for falling off very quickly and for not being to span long distances. Use Manual mode. High speed sync on the camera and flash (so you can take photos with the flash at shutter speeds higher than 1/250 of a sec.) Great tool to have if needed! Now: 3.) Now for the flash: Fill flash usually works great when turning the flash's power from 0 to -1ev. I start at -1/3 when in the ideal outside lighting and take test shots and look at the histogram to base the rest of the shots from there. Set the flash to TTL mode when doing this BTW and the manual has all you need to learn how to set the flash's output. In rough overhead lighting, you will want to go -2/3 to -1eV for the best results. The goal is to not take away from the background light! You want to preserve the background (your backdrop) while still making the subject properly exposed and not making them look washed out from the strong flash! You want to diffuse the light and make for a very eye appealing look! Now do you see why you are unhappy with the camera?
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Vincent Montalbano |
Thank you Michael for your in depth answer, and it is interesting that you are now switching from Nikon to Canon. Over the years we have always been Canon fans with an AE1, an Elan 7E, an Elan IIe, and my first venture into digital with a Canon G2 that I still use and love to this day. However, with the dreaded shutter lag, this camera is all but useless for my wife's work of children's photography. (I prefer shooting stationary objects like antique cars, etc, and for that work the G2 is a pretty good little point and shoot platform) So when it was time to get a DSLR the Canon 20D seemed to be the obvious choice. Let me preface by saying that although my wife is a very good photographer with a gifted eye and a lot of patience,(a requirement for children's portraiture) she is not at all technical. And I will say that people love her work, and on a part time basis her little business does very well. As I mentioned earlier, we do not have a studio, and everything is basically done outdoors with the exception of some very nice window light occasions. Unless otherwise impossible, we will always try to schedule her jobs for early mid morning, or late afternoon when the natural light is more forgiving. Whenever possible I try to assist her on her jobs with my job being "reflector boy". I try to evaluate the histograms to make some realtime judgements, but my wife will typically peel off 8 or 10 shots before I can grab the camera for a look. Because of the nature of her work, it would be very difficult for her to shoot in manual mode with chasing kids all over the location, ever changing backgrounds, and ever changing lighting conditions. So, for the most part it's shooting in Program or Aperture mode. I wish the 20D had better spot metering capability..I believe it's a 9% spot. I think the 30D has a better, and more useful spot meter. So, in reply to your comments: 1)When shooting moving targets (like 2 year olds) manual mode is not easy or practical 2)It is definitely a "jockey" situation with my wife...and she kids about being born without a left brain...lol (but I will say a very creative, and gifted right brain) 3)Her work does not allow for staying in the same spot 4)We've never tried high speed sync..I might need to play with that 5)I've done flash adjustments (both up and down with some degree of succes) but again, not always conducive when you're dealing with moving targets, and changing backgrounds and lighting conditions. Now,getting back to my original question, considering all that I've told you, and in your opinion, do you think Nikon's flash technology will handle these situations better than Canon?...or is a 30D still a better choice for us? Thanks again
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Michael A. Bielat |
Hey again, I see what you mean about the moving subjects and whatnot. I take it by what you wrote that she does a sort of natural, candid photography that captures the child's true self. On that note, she may have to take a little different approach to her portrait sessions. Instead of capturing the moment when it happens, she may want to start coaching the children more and give them guidelines or tell them to start doing something (like playing on a swing set and so forth). From there, the children are kept busy and forget that they are even being photographed(but we know that it is hit or miss when dealing with children!) That is when I dial in my settings, get my angle and distance and fire off some test shots and modify from there. I did some research for you and found a website that may be helpful to you: That will pretty much give you more info on how to fix your issue. Now in regards to your Nikon D80 vs. Canon question: I think what will happen is that the new camera (either the Nikon or 30D) will end up getting used the same way by your wife and she will still be unhappy with the results of fill flash on either body. All in all, the Av and P modes aren't going to do it for her because: P: does its best to keep the shutter speed high enough for you to hold it and to eliminate any camera shake from a slow shutter speed. It is dependent on the ambient light for it to use its brain to make the flash fill (fairly bright ambient light) or (less ambient light) full blown! Av: You pick the aperture and the camera decides the shutter speed. The constraint here is that the shutter speed will only really go from 30 to the highest sync speed of the camera. Granted, Canon will automatically put the flash to fill in this setting but it will fail to go any higher or lower unlike in manual mode. The secret really is to use Manual mode and set your aperture and shutter speed to properly expose the ambient light (ie. the background). From there dial in your flash to about -1eV in TTL mode and stay within the bounds of the flash unit. The LCD panel on the flash should give you the approx. distance as to how far away you can be until the flash starts dropping off. The technology is there in both cameras. See where the problems lay with those settings? It's tough to say but with what you are saying and without seeing samples of her work and of the fill flash issue then she will have to simply get more technical and do more research. The technical aspect of the digital cameras has been known to eat up or take a huge hit on some reluctant photography studios who will not make the switch. The way I see it is that Canon is being blamed for taking the poor photos and that Nikon may be the answer. Granted, I do prefer Nikon's flash technology, but I like it for the reason of being able to easily have 6+ flash units working on a set with a couple quick settings. I just got married and my wedding photographer was using a Canon 20D and a 580ex flash the whole time. A great photographer can take great shots with whatever is in front of them. Don't take any of this as disrespect, I am simply informing you both on what you can possibly do to make that little "part time" children's portrait business into something more profitable and so you both can be the best on the block! Good luck and as always, PM me if you have any further questions or comments.
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