 Brenda D. |
another guestion about a copyright release Ok so we all know about copyrights and releases, but I recently came accross a situation that I dont understand. If your feel the need to slam me or make me feel stupid for asking please dont respond to this question. thanks. but thanks ahead of time for any helpful info. I currently work in a 1 hour photolab and have for 5yrs, I recently did maternity shots of my sister,gave her a release to print them( at my lab) so the employees there give her a real hard time calling in management questioning my release to her and this is what they did . they kept the release and a copy of the photo, and told her if she wanted more she'd have to bring another release any time she wanted prints AND one for each photo she does!!! there are 25 on the CD. this release was written for the WHOLE CD. since she is my assistant I put in the release she is to be alowed to do any photo that I have a copyright on since she is working for me and will be doing a lot of leg work like getting proofs for customers, she has been given as as much rights to print them as I have, My questions are does the store keep the release and a copy of the photo printed > and can I give her an open release to print all the photos we will be needing? is it legal for them to keep a copy of the photo? thanks again for any help Brenda
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Todd Bennett |
Brenda, If you work their, you should know the company's policy on these types of things. Having said that, mind you this is just my opinion and others may disagree and I may stand corrected; but: 1st - she should not have given them the actual release and told them they are welcome to make a copy of it. 2nd - if this is the lab you work at, which you stated it was, sounds like you have a bunch of idiots working there. The release had to have your name on it. All they had to do was pick up the phone and give you a call. I do understand them wanting to keep a copy of the release and photo/photos printed to cover their butt. However; a lot of these people working in these places don't use the good sense God gave them. An example of this is a few years back I was in WalMart getting ready to check out and was behind a black couple. It was night and the guy was wearing sunglasses and carrying a white cane with the end painted red. The lady with this guy had to fill out the check, lay it on the counter, physically help him put his hand on the signature line so he could sign his name. After he finished signing he held the pen up for the lady to take it, she picked up the checkbook and tore out the check and handed it to the cashier. The cashier then asked for an I.D. so the lady hands her the man's MILITARY I.D. which is accepted world wide as a form of identification. Most people would have picked up on the fact that the guy was BLIND! The cashier then looked at the I.D., which did have his picture on it, looked at him, looked at the I.D. and then back at him again. She then said; and I quote............."May I see your drivers license?" I was beside myself and can't tell you on this site what came out of my mouth. Well, the cashier was told he was legally blind and didn't have one. She then called the manager over and told her what was going on. If I remember correctly she left out the fact that the guy was blind and the above scenario repeated itself. I reached into my pocket to get the cash to pay for the guys $29.00 worth of stuff when the manager finally came to her senses and approved the purchase. Sorry to get so long winded. I just hate stupiddity like that. I would suggest she take them somewhere else to have them printed. Just my opinion for what it's worth.
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Brenda D. |
ToddI do KNOW the policy! and it has never been that they keep a copy of the photo in question, and yes you are right about thier stupidity,I have taken a leave of absence for 6mos and was informed that policies have changed since I left,(which I doubt )there seems to be a question of a new manager knowing his job,and employees trying to show thier authority or lack thereof, or just downright being a B*T*H, I was given a phone call and gave them written and verbal permission to the lab to print the photo,and still was given a line of crap, not only did they keep the written release but stapled a copy of the photo to it, not having my permission to have a copy of the photo. and yes I have got another lab to do my photos from here on out .and my original question was do they keep the release and a copy of the photo attached to it?
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Todd Bennett |
Sounds as though these people may have a beef with you and are just trying to make your life difficult. I really can't answer that. I always have my prints printed myself. I know it's a hassle; but, I use Mpix.com and when I am printing for someone else, I'll order and have them shipped to me or, if it is just a couple of photos, I just ship them straight to their door. I can only tell you what I would do, which is, simply change labs as you did. I believe this issue would depend on company policy though. And, just because a company has a policy, that doesn't mean that that policy isn't in conflict with the laws in your area governing copyright and intellectual property issues. I am not trying to be a butt when I say this; but, if it is that big of a deal to you, you might want to contact an attorney in your area that specializes in intellectual property rights.
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Brenda D. |
Todd I think your right about them having a beef against me, although I dont know why I was given raises based on my excellent customer service. I have changed to MPix,and I am very happy with thier ..everything accutally they're great! I do feel that making a copy of the photos that my customers are printing and keeping a copy in the lab as reference is an infringement on my customers privacy. I just dont know... I dont mean to sound like a Bitch but this whole situation is frustrating to me ,especially since not only are these people my co-workers but most of them have been to my house on social occasions and I considered them friends. I guess you find out who your true friends are when it comes to business. thanks for your advice and letting me vent :)
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Todd Bennett |
I understand how you feel. Maybe Mark F. will chime in here. He's very knowledgable about this kind of thing. Yeah, we go through life and have a lot of aquaintances; but, very few are true friends. I do believe they are violating your rights; but, another concideration is whether this thing is worth the time and effort it takes to fight it. A call to an attorney might be worth it if you really want to know. It would probably cost you very little if anything at all. Give it a day or two to settle in and then decide how far you want to go with it. Good luck and if you do decide to go with it, I'd be interested in know what the outcome is.
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Todd Bennett |
By the way, have you tried Mpix's metallic paper? It gives and awesome almost 3D effect to images.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Photo labs do keep a copy of the release. It used to be a release was required written on something with the company letter head. Maybe you don't have official letter head or not. But it's quite possible that nowadays labs want a copy of the photo for further protection and specificity. In fact, copyrighting with the government office part of the step is providing print outs of digital files. And also, since a group of work can be copyrighted at once, providing a thumbnail printout is acceptable for a body of work. So with lawsuit paranoia the way it is, they probably want a release and some copy of each picture that's released. So thumbnail size images directly on the release, or attached and signed together would probably work for the lab. As to the blind guy, they probably wanted a drivers license for the license number to validate the check. There probably was a machine next to the register that stamps it on the back of the check. Hey, protection against bounced checks. But that's the way lots of places do things now. With so many people going to portrait places, then bringing the pictures to those kodak machines to make reprints instead of ordering from the portrait studio.
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Todd Bennett |
Thanks Gregory. The protection you mention is what I was getting at; but, I wonder if it is within the realm of the written laws. In this litigious society we live in, everybody is covering their collective butts. As far as the blind guy it was simply stupidity on their part. You had to be there.
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Brenda D. |
hi , I dont want to get anyone in troubl with this I just feel these people are mis-informed or just being overly dramatic for attention, really the only thing I want is for them to get rid of the photo they are keeping, when it doesnt really have to be there, needless to say my sister doesnt want her pregnancy photo to be there,these photos were to be for her and her husband, not to be on file in thier lab where anyone can have access to them. I have just made my first order with metallic paper, it is one of the maternity shots,she wears a belly ring so I cant wait to see it!!! I love cemetarys too and have a great photo of a giant headstone hand carved in 1813, I plan to do it in the metallic paper also, I saw how great the rocks look when I ordered samples of thier paper. Im very excited about using MPix,they have a lot to offer, that I can pass on to my customers.Its a plus to me that Im the only portrait studio in my little town. I think my customers will be pleased to be getting more options, and I dont even have to raise my prices. (we are a Very small town,not a money town) I try to keep my prices low but enough for me to make a profit, Heck after this I may not even go back to work with that lab after my leave is over. I have till Dec to make a decision.but I'm leaning toward not going back.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
If you don't want to leave a print on regular paper in place of the photo, then back the photo along with the release. The blind guy, they could have typed something on back of the check with the register, like "ok manager". Some registers are even made to not complete the transaction until something is stamp with the validation machine. But you never know what some district manager might say to a store manager whenever an unvalidated check shows up.
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Todd Bennett |
Greg, You missed the point! THEY ASKED A BLIND MAN FOR HIS D R I V E R S L I C E N S E!!!!!!!!! Do you not think that is stupid concidering the VISUAL clues with him wearing dark glasses at night, carrying a white walking stick with the tip painted red, and his companion doing all the writing except the signing of the check? My point is people don't pay attention to what is going on around them and don't use common sense. There would have been a better way to handle that situation just as there was a better way for the lab to handle Brenda's situation.
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Mark Feldstein |
When I read Brenda's post early this morning before any replies set in, my first reaction was exactly the same as Todd's; what did you do to piss these people off? Of course they may keep a copy of the release as a business record although I think that's pretty unusual for an employee to do to another employee. I've never heard of it. As to keeping a copy of the work? Iffy at best. You want to pursue it, hire an attorney who specializes in intellectual property law at may $250 an hour. Doubtful they'd take it on a contingency basis based on the facts as you've stated them. OTOH, this looks like a clear cut case of "Me thinks thou protests too much". That brings me to my second thought about this which is simply you either need to find another place to work or have your photos processed. Next thing you know is they'd have you bringing in a copy of your copyright registration certificate to prove the images are yours, passport ID and a W2 or 1099 form along with a tax return, to prove your sister is your employee, a business license to demonstrate you're really a business, ad infinitim. Don't waste your time Brenda. It seems pretty apparent they want you to take your business somewhere else. So, do just and live without the employee discount or talk to whomever owns the place and either enlist his/her support or as I said, find another place to work, have your pix processed or both.
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Todd Bennett |
Mark, I love the last comment.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
I did get the point, blind men don't drive. I'm saying the habit they have of asking comes from what they always do, and it's probably from some managerial person saying "no exceptions!!" Like if a guy in a wheelchair can in to a business and an employee see "walk this way". Common sense is a paradox, rare sense is more like it.
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Brenda D. |
I hope I did not start an argument,I did not mind leaving a COPY of the release,I do however mind leaving a copy of my photos and my customers photos. I will be asking for a copy of the policy from them that states they must keep a copy of the photos also. I respect my customers privacy and feel that the lab should too. IF it it required that they have a copy, (thanks Greg for the suggestion of a backup) I will either use a CD with very small images or an index print,Thanks to all of you for your help. I will know on Monday if any one wants to know the out come I will post here on this thread. Todd, have you ever recieved the email "they are among us?"its all about people like the cashier you mentioned.(example) at a check out counter my total came to $25.50 I gave the cashier $30.00 she handed me back $25.50 I told her there was a mistake, and she hissed at me " I know my job, now please keep moving your holdong up the line!" theres no accounting for some people!! thanks again guys.:)
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Todd Bennett |
No arguements here. I've seen that email. It is amazing what people do. I know we all do stupid things, I'm just thankful I haven't made the list.............yet!
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Brenda D. |
heres the results, I went to the head manager of this store,we went over the policy with a fine tooth comb, NO WHERE in it does it state they are to keep a copy of any photo, and only a copy of the copyright release is required, incase the customer needs it for future use. so the photo was shredded (by me) which is all I wanted any way. thanks again to all of you for helping ,making great suggestions and letting me vent. oh yeah Todd, I belong on the stupid people list, I keep forgetting my friend Cora is deaf, she speaks so well, her deafness didnt come until adulthood,and she reads lips very well , I'll ask about a new Kenny Chesny song, and she tells me nope I didnt hear it ,but it feels good when I put my hand on the speakers!! shes a doll and a wonderful person. too bad she has a ding dong for a friend!!!
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Todd Bennett |
That's awesome. I'm glad it worked out. I'm hope when the manager gets through with the people that did this you see some new faces there.
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Brenda D. |
Todd I got my photo from MPix today and I am so excited and VERY impressed with everthing! the metallic paper is beautiful,and i'm loving the way they protected my photo when it was packaged and sent to me. they are awsome! I wish I had listened sooner when I had read other people recomending them! as for the faces in the photo lab, even if theres no new faces there they sure as heck wont be seeing mine! :) (maybe when I go back in Dec to tell them I wont be comming back to work for them) LOL
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