 Herb |
camera & lens for High School basketball & baseba My interest in phtography is taking action pictures of my grandsons' High School indoor basketball and outdoor baseball teams. I want to spend up to $2,500 on body and lens, more or less. What equipment would serve the purpose best?
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robert G. Fately |
Well, Herb, first of all you'll want to use a digital SLR (I'm assuming you want to take digital pictures - if not a 35MM SLR will be fine). As for particular brand and model, the most important factor is how the camera handles in YOUR hands - so go to a store and try out a few from Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Sony (nee Minolta) and Pentax. You may find some models more to your liking - forget the technical specifications - at a given price point, they are more similar than different. The more important aspect is the lens, and here you have two rather different issues. For hoops, where the use of a flash is distracting and sometimes not allowed, you will want to use a very fast lens (that is, one with a lot of light gathering power, as shown by a smaller f-stop number). Of course, every gym has slightly different lighting, but when I shoot indoor basketball I use an 85MM f1.4 telephoto lens and at ISO 800 am able to get about 1/350th second shutter speed. If I used an f2.8 zoom, I'd need to either go to ISO 3200 (too noisy) or shoot at 1/125th or so (possibly too slow, allowing for blurry images). Also, since gymnasium lights are often mercury vapor or some other exotic type, their color balance is often greenish or otherwise weird, so you'll want to color correct the shots either with an Expodisc or using a gray card and post-production software to correct shades. Baseball, however, is both outdoors and involves longer distances than basketball. SO you'll want a longer telephoto lens, but the maximum aperture is not as much of an issue. One of the popular 70-300MM zooms would probably do the trick. If you could get a 70-200 f2.8 zoom you would be able to get faster shutter speeds (useful on cludy days) but more importantly at maximum aperture have shallower depth of field so the subject "pops" while the background becomes a nondistracting blur. Have fun shopping and comparing!
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robert G. Fately |
Well, Herb, first of all you'll want to use a digital SLR (I'm assuming you want to take digital pictures - if not a 35MM SLR will be fine). As for particular brand and model, the most important factor is how the camera handles in YOUR hands - so go to a store and try out a few from Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Sony (nee Minolta) and Pentax. You may find some models more to your liking - forget the technical specifications - at a given price point, they are more similar than different. The more important aspect is the lens, and here you have two rather different issues. For hoops, where the use of a flash is distracting and sometimes not allowed, you will want to use a very fast lens (that is, one with a lot of light gathering power, as shown by a smaller f-stop number). Of course, every gym has slightly different lighting, but when I shoot indoor basketball I use an 85MM f1.4 telephoto lens and at ISO 800 am able to get about 1/350th second shutter speed. If I used an f2.8 zoom, I'd need to either go to ISO 3200 (too noisy) or shoot at 1/125th or so (possibly too slow, allowing for blurry images). Also, since gymnasium lights are often mercury vapor or some other exotic type, their color balance is often greenish or otherwise weird, so you'll want to color correct the shots either with an Expodisc or using a gray card and post-production software to correct shades. Baseball, however, is both outdoors and involves longer distances than basketball. SO you'll want a longer telephoto lens, but the maximum aperture is not as much of an issue. One of the popular 70-300MM zooms would probably do the trick. If you could get a 70-200 f2.8 zoom you would be able to get faster shutter speeds (useful on cludy days) but more importantly at maximum aperture have shallower depth of field so the subject "pops" while the background becomes a nondistracting blur. Have fun shopping and comparing!
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Herb |
Hi Bob - I have been perusing some discussions a year old, or more for advice. I feel they are obsolescent by now. I am most concerned with the indoor basketball since this presents the more difficult conditions. The discussions have not discussed Nikon D80 (has spot metering) vs Canon 30D or Canon EOS Rebel Xti specificly for basketball. Forlenses, one respondent recommends Canon 70mm-200mm f4.OL without IS saying IS causes blur in action shots while another respondent says the Canon 70-200 (IS) f.2.8 "L" is the best. He would avoid wide range (35-350mm) lenses.Popular Photography likes Nikon D 80 and Nikon 70-300mm f 4.5-5.6G VR ED AF-S for sports but doesn't say whether its good for indoor shooting. What's your take on all of this? Herb
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robert G. Fately |
Well, for indoor use the slower IS lens would likely be a mistake - IS only assists in avoiding blur caused by the camera's movement - it has nothing to do with the subject's movement causing blurriness. So even if an IS lens gave you 4 stops of "virtual tripod" quality - and you could shoot at 1/15th second instead of 1/250th second, the athlete's motion will cause the image to blur. So, the 2.8 lens is better as it will allow a higher absolute shutter speed. But again, 2.8 is the fastest of the zooms, and you might find that an 85MM focal length (with whatever crop factor is involved) might be long enough for most b-ball shooting while affording you a higher shutter speed. For baseball, the 70-300 was the one I mentioned - the advantage of a higher speed lens (like a Sigma 120-300 f2.8) would be that shallower-DOF situation, which can make for some nicer shots.
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Herb |
Bob -If you don't mind I need a little more clarification. For basketball the Canon 70-200 f4.OL is inadequate and I need the 70-200 IS f2.8 L. This rules out the Nikon D80 and leaves the Canon 30D or Rebel Xti. Which of these would you choose, again, for basketball? Also, is the f2.8 fast enough for the majority of the action or do I need a faster f1.4?
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robert G. Fately |
Herb, just so you know, Nikon alsomakes a 70-200 f2.8 VR (same as IS) lens - they are equivalently excellent optics. No the Nikon/Canon decision is still up to other factors. What I was suggesting about basketball, though, is that the even faster possiblities of a prime telephoto lens like an 85MM f1.4 or f1.8 would enable you to use higher shutter speeds and/or lower ISO settings indoors. Again, you can see for yourself, but I think that the extra length of the 200MM zoom is not so critical in the relatively small space of a basketball court.
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Herb |
Thanks Bob. Now I'm beginning to understand your 1st reply which is to buy 2 lenses; an 85mm f1.4 for basketball and a 70-300 f2.8 for baseball. I'll get the basketball lens first. Which is your favorite? And which camera body do you favor for basketball, Canon 30D, Rebel Xti or Nikon D80?
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robert G. Fately |
Herb, I think the three bodies are pretty similar in the important aspects. The real issue is which of them balances better in your hands - which viewfinder is easier for you to read and focus through, etc. These ergonomic issues are not addressed by specifications - you need to go and handle the cameras to see which you like better. There is a school of thought that you need the highest possible "motor drive" speed (i.e. - 5 frames per second is 'better' than 3 fps) but this is facetious logic. Really good sports shots are a matter of timing - and that's the skill you can acquire by taking lots of shots. As for the prime lens - like I said, the 85MM focal length at f1.8 or 1.4 (or in the case of Canon, f1.2 for about $3K) might be the best choice.
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Herb |
Thanks for staying with me, Bob. I need a few days to take all this in. Bye for now. - Herb
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Samuel Smith |
very nice bob.but nothing under 200mm. and the body is less important.yes.capture,digital or film. ok.
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robert G. Fately |
Er, Samuel, you are not being very clear. If you think that anything less than a 200MM lens is not useful for basketball shooting, then I daresay you have not done any. Since the crop factor of DSLRs makes 200MM the equivalent of 300MM (or more), this would imply requiring a minimum shutter speed of 1/300th second just to avoid blur. But more important is that the narrow angle of view would preclude anything but face shots if the player is within halfcourt of you. SO perhaps you could clarify your enigmatic (and rather useless on its own) statement.
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