BetterPhoto Q&A
Category: New Answers

The purpose of BetterPhoto....

I've been a member for a while now (years) and up until last month never submitted anything into my gallery. I'd used the site in an effort to take Better Photos. I've had a look at some fantastic images over the years and it's spurred me on to take similar, or learn new techniques. I've frequently asked various members questions like "Wow, how'd you do that?!" and have found their answers extremely helpful.

Then I treated myself to my first ever digital slr and some photo editing software. That took a little justification in my own head, but boy it was worth it! I've uploaded a few images onto my gallery and that got me to wondering what motivates everyone else to do the same.

My gallery is a way to show my very far away friends what pictures I take. My photos also really delight me and it's nice to see them as part of a website. Although I've now entered a few into the competition I don't ever expect to win anything, and just think "well, why not?!" It thrills me to pieces that fellow members bother to take the time to comment on my pictures and seem to take some enjoyment from them. But ultimately they're for MY pleasure.

But, if you read commments in the forums lots of people seem to use BetterPhoto as a competition-only site and are more interested to know about what they can do to win or why they haven't won in the past. Isn't photography an art that's terribly personal? What appeals to the judges isn't to my taste a lot of the time, although I can see merit in the pictures themselves. So I don't mind if they don't like my pictures because I do!

I wonder how many fellow members feel the same. Do you use the site to improve your pictures, chat to like-minded folk and share pictures or is the competition the primary interest for you?

Just curious.....

Regards to all, keep up the photography!

Donna

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May 15, 2007

Speaking only for myself, I came to BP several years ago in search of online classes that would help me build my image making skills. I saw the contest info, but thought nothing of it and went straight to the class info. I’m now in the middle of my seventh BP class and feel, strongly, that the classes offer a great deal to anyone willing to put in the time and effort. I still see the web site as a learning resource and enjoy participating in the different forums, exchanging ideas and critiques and the occasional mild argument.

BP has changed a lot over the past year and, in some ways, not for the better. There are some very competitive people who submit wonderful images and who take it in stride when their image is not placed among the winners. There are also some who get upset and angry when their image is not chosen. I have yet to enter a contest, so cannot speak to what I’d feel if I entered and did not win – I hope that I would be one of those who take it in stride. Even though I am (finally!) selling some of my images to accompany the writing that I do, I am forever finding fault with my work and am always surprised (and delighted) when someone offers a positive remark. I am also somewhat surprised when someone gets really upset when their images are not among the winners. Like you, I believe that most art is subjective. Yes, there are some rules that help to define the quality of an image – composition, exposure, sharpness, etc. However, beyond these, the definition of a good image becomes subjective. What I like may not be what someone else likes. The judges deal with huge volumes of images and sometimes they select images that I do not find pleasing, but then what I like someone else might not find pleasing.

The short answer to your question is that I see BP as a place to learn, share and to “talk” photography with people who share my passion. For me – and just for me – the contest is a very minor part of the site.

Irene

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May 15, 2007

Hope the horse is well - I've just recently taken up horse-riding and have to say I find the animals totally captivating. Hopefully the ache in my thighs will decrease as I progress with the lessons though!

I'm glad I'm not alone in my opinions. I'm also glad that there's a place I can come to and talk "nerdy stuff" (my husbands words, not mine...)and even learn a little. I hope to do some of the courses one day as everyone seems very positive about them.

Perhaps people are taking the competition a little too seriously - we can't all win. But those who don't shouldn't see it as a personal insult on their pictures. There are some beautiful pictures that don't win anything - ones that I'd be proud to hang on my wall.

It's a huge comfort to know that while you've been doing this photography thing for a while and producing stunning pictures - you still find fault with them! I ALWAYS find fault with my pictures and they can't all be rubbish! So there must always be a little something else to learn, a new technique to try or a new gadget to spend money on!

I'm not sure what changes BP have made over the past year, I've really only been dedicated since I got my gallery going but perhaps if we all moaned in the right ears things could improve. Or is that wishful thinking?! You can't please everyone I suppose!

Anyway, I'm off out with my camera,

Donna

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May 15, 2007

I also joined BP in early 2004, but illness kept me away from photography (and everything else) for a long time. It wasn't until late last year that I was able to get back into it.

As a beginning photographer, I find the contest is a way for me to challenge myself to learn and improve.

The first year here, I took a class, and I'd really like to take more, but $200 is way over my budget. Instead, I read the articles and forum questions, the betterblogs, and the BP radio programs.

But I find the best way for me to learn is to study the work of better photographers. And the easy way to find better photographers is to look at contest winners.

Sure, art is subjective, but art also follows rules, and the old art school adage that you can't break rules until you know them applies. So, by studying the winners, I've learned more about design, composition, technical skills, etc. Virtually all the winners exhibit great technique, and follow basic rules of design and composition.

Since I can't afford a class, I find that submitting to the contest forces me to try to produce the best quality photograph that I can--because I know that not only the judges, but scores of other contestants will be examining it carefully. I just like that challenge.

I've told all my friends and family about my gallery, but they don't keep up with what I post. Why? Because it's not a family scrapbook or travelogue, because art is subjective--and because so far my gallery is limited to one subject, LOL!

In the future, I expect to be more confident of my skills and more sure of what my own preferences are regarding personal style/subject/technique. At that point, I'll probably enter the contest less often, but I'll still participate in the site.

Hope this all makes some kind of sense. ;) Irene, I hope your horse gets better soon!

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May 15, 2007

I do enter the contest, but if I never get another finalist, I won't change my style or approach. I suppose I post because I do like others to see my work. I post so family and friends can see what I have been up to. For myself, if the contest went away, it wouldn't be a big deal. But there are plenty who love the contest and look forward to the results every month. If it gets people shooting and trying to improve their skills....great!

The object is to have fun and hopefully better our skills. I have made a lot of friends through BP and hope to make more.

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May 15, 2007

In speaking for the staff at Betterphoto, I wanted to reiterate your
sentiments of this being a site to share photography. We really hope that the many aspects of Betterphoto (newsletters, forum, contest, articles, blogs and much more) support fun and inspiration for all members of our photography community. We truly hope that our members find Betterphoto to be the foremost site in approachable education and resources for all photographers who want to improve their skills, share their photos, and learn more about the art and technique of photography.

I hope you continue to enjoy Betterphoto. Thanks again for your post.

Heather Young
Heather@betterphoto.com

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May 15, 2007

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May 15, 2007

Very true Colleen! When a new member asks about the rules of composition someone invariably responds that there are no rules. I am always surprised by this. There are rules and while art may be subjective, knowing and understanding the basic rules is part of becoming a better photographer. Slavish adherence to rules may lead to uninspiring images, but ignoring the rules without first understanding them leads to poor photography. Every few weeks someone complains that their images are never chosen as finalists in the contest and claims that the contest must be rigged. They ask for feedback on their gallery. The gallery features images where the subject is centered; the horizon is crooked; the main subject is not sharp or some other obvious flaw. If you then respond honestly pointing out the problems the original poster often gets angry and states that s/he wants to create something “different” and no one here has the sense to see his/her creativity. Learn the rules and when to apply them and when not – and know that some rules should never be broken.

“Perhaps people are taking the competition a little too seriously - we can't all win. But those who don't shouldn't see it as a personal insult on their pictures”

I think that people take their art/craft seriously and that this is not a bad thing. Unfortunately, there are people who will always interpret critique as personal attack. As a writer, one of the first things I had to learn was not to let my ego get ahead of my skill. That is, if an editor wants changes to an article or a client wants to shift a piece into an area I have resisted, it is in my own interest to listen to their ideas. Perhaps it is a function of age or perhaps because I spent 26 years working with children affected by trauma, but despite my desire to succeed in my new career, I just can’t get all that upset when someone critiques my work or when I fail to sell a piece of writing or photography. I take pride in my work, but it does not define who I am as a person.

Gregory is right; I have noticed that there really are just a few –albeit very vocal – people who routinely get hot about the contest. Even in that group there are very few who regularly complain about the alleged unfairness of the contest or who get angry that their image has not placed among the finalists. I think the majority of people are here to learn, share and to socialize.

Irene

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May 15, 2007

Of course my favorite is the pies :-)~

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May 15, 2007

I do enjoy the contest cause in a way, it allows me to try different things. But I don't live/die for the contest. When I first joined BP, I only took landscape pictures. Now, I enjoy other styles of photography, all because of learning from others on BP.

I've been fortunate to meet many BPers in person and hopefully will have life-long friends. When I first joined BP, I only saw mini-pics. Now, I've gotten to know the real person behind the mini-pic. That's more important than living/dying for the contest.

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May 15, 2007

The ache in your thighs is caused from using muscles you don't normally use for other purposes. The ache will stop when you do one of two things. a: ride enough to build up your muscles: b: quit trying to hold on with your legs. This is a common problem with new riders. Learn to just balance yourself. (It will take time and by the time you do your muscles will have stopped aching anyway. LOL)

Donna, BP is many things to many people.
To Jim and the others on the staff, it is a source of income. There is nothing wrong with that as they provide a service (premium galleries, websites and classes) that many find quite useful.
For others, it IS all about the contest. For many of them it is a fun game to try to win recognition. For a few of these folks, a win of some sort is all important.
For some of us, who never enter the contest, it is about learning and/or imparting our (or should I say my?) limited knowledge to others and to have fun shooting the bull with others who like photography.

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May 15, 2007

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May 15, 2007

"It's something everyone wants to do well"

Gregory, I think you're right--to an extent. Photography is something most people enjoy doing, but I think most don't care if their photos are technically or artistically exceptional.

I'm just guessing, but I think that because photography is a visual art and many of us have exhausted our relatives and our own walls with our photos ... competitions offer a way to ensure our work gets seen. (If you bake a pie and nobody sees it, you can still eat it.)

Other visual arts would be the same ... but then, taking up painting is not as easy as picking up a digital camera.

Just some random thoughts ...

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May 15, 2007

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May 15, 2007

And Donna, as far as the horse-riding, I took lessons years ago ( English tack ). Just when the pain started to subside, I switched to a different horse---different size and temperment, and a whole new set of pains. :( Actually, I even had a few lessons where we had to ride without sturrips. I wasn't able to walk down stairs the day after! Those lessons saved me, though, when on my way to a jump I dropped a sturrip. While trying to recover, I dropped the other. I ended up lifting myself out of the saddle by sheer strength of my legs and successfully made the jump. A wonderfully satisfying experience.

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May 15, 2007

Back to the topic: just to be really clear about my thoughts; I have no problem with competition and can be competitive myself. I agree that competition can serve to push us forward into new territory and to improve our skills. There seems to be no point in entering a contest unless it is with the hope of placing high in the ranking – at least with the idea that someday you may place first. I only wonder about those who do not place and then become bitter, angry and resentful about the manner in which the contests are judged. That, to me, is rather futile and a good way to simply make yourself miserable. Any contest, by definition, includes those who do not win or place. There is no shame in trying and not winning; there is shame in not doing your best and heartache in blaming someone else for your not placing. Now, let’s go make some pictures – of horses or whatever.

Irene

Oh, and Stan - that's quite a feat! Cool!

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May 15, 2007

"mmmmm ... Pie"

LOL Homer Simpson--I mean, Dennis--you've definitely got your priorities straight!

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May 15, 2007

I learned early on from reading some of the threads that the contest could become a trap for those who depended on it for validation. Still I love entering the contest each month, getting comments on my photos and being inspired by what others are doing. I agree that it helps to keep me motivated to keep trying to improve. I am still amazed and delighted when I get a finalist, it's like the icing on the cake, but it isn't my main focus.

Participating in all the various areas of the BP site is a great learning experience. And it keeps me sharp. I live in an area where there are many, many artists working and displaying their work. Lately, when I browse through shops and galleries I am surprised at the poor quality of some of the photos offered for sale. I have come to realize it is because I am exposed to such fantastic photos on a regular basis by some of the very talented photographers at BP.

So I guess, for me, BP is just a terrific place to learn, share and be inspired to do my best.

Judyann <><

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May 15, 2007

Now when I come it's not so much the competition I'm here for,(nor was it before since I don't remember entering any contests before) it's to share my photos, and sometimes the stories that go with them with others who have a love for photography, to see the photography of others, and improve my photography skills.

I guess in a way it's similar to the reasons I go to church, I go to church so I can enjoy the fellowship of other believers, share the things the Lord is doing in my life with them, and hear about what He is doing in their lives. and not only to encourage others, but to be encouraged by them as well. And the list goes on....

Same principle with this place, I enjoy the fellowship of other photographers, sharing my photography with them, as they share theirs, when others comment on my work it is encouraging, and I hope that the comments I leave on others photos are an encouragment to them.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has improved their photography skills as a result of participating on this site, is a winner. Even if they never win the contest.

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May 15, 2007

I know you didn't say "technically or artistically exceptional" -- I did, because I was referring to why people enter contests/competitions.

I don't think most people who take photographs enter contests, because most don't aspire to any publicly-recognized (or "expertly-judged") level of skill or artistic expression. They just want to record things/events they find of interest, and to share them with others.

For those of us who are more passionate about photography as a hobby/part-time job/career/etc. etc., the issue of contests comes up more often (as it does in a thread like this), whether we choose to participate in them or not.

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May 15, 2007

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May 15, 2007

I attended a workshop in October and it was the first time I had ever heard of BetterPhoto. One of the other students showed her work from the site.The first things I did when I got home was sign up to be a member.

Not only does it give one an outlet to shows ones work ,but it has been a way to keep up with family and friends. To show them what I have been doing with my life.

It is a wonderful learning tool .I have had scores of people write to tell me what they like and don't like . Things to try or things to eliminate from my photos. Most have been very kind and helpful.There are so many beautiful galleries to look at and study ,one cant help but get better by scanning them.

I use the same approach viewing the photos here that I use when Im in the field . How do I see it? What would I do different? What makes sense to me?Its a great tool for developing one's own vision.

I do enter a few photos each month .The feed back being as important to me as the photos themself. One can't take the contest to serious. Art is subject to taste. Go to any good book store and look at the photos by the world's best photographers.What you will find is that some will rock your world.( Joe Cornish's Work does it for me.) Other will not excite you as much.Does this mean their work isn't great? No it just shows that everyone has their own taste and their own vision.Which may or may not be the same as some one viewing your work.

My work isnt great(Im hoping for at least good at this point ) but with the help of BetterPhoto and the members here I hope to improve with each day.BetterPhoto is a great tool to use to advances ones creative spirit.A tool that is free of charge .

Wondering about why your photo didnt win is a good thing.Worrying is a waste of time.Look ,Learn and work harder. Do that and some day you will find your efforts are rewarded.

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May 16, 2007

Best of light!!!

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May 16, 2007

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May 16, 2007

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May 17, 2007

I have been on BP now for three years. And I see some super BP'ers have all ready made comments here.

If found BP by looking for a free contest site. And I am very glade I found BP. I have meet so super people here, alot of them have been great in helping me get better at my photography.

I enter the contest but I really do not care if I win... My only 2 finalist came about this year. If you check out my gallery you will see that most of my shoots are to make people smile.

I have see people cry about the different changes BP has made. But I think in the long run there are not alot of people that would leave because of the changes because this is really a great community of people here.

And the people who run things do a good job. And I think people should thank them now and then for the job they do.

Doc

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May 18, 2007

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May 18, 2007

I'm glad there are so many like-minded people out there! I think it's great that there's a site like this that will teach us all so much and allow us to show off our images.

Despite my initial comments about photography being about pleasing myself and if it pleases other folk then that's a bonus I've recently heard that a pic of mine appeared on Editor's Picks! I have to admit I nearly fell off my chair! unfortunately I haven't been near a computer of late (I broke my ankle...too busy feeling sorry for myself!) so didn't see it for myself.

But wow! I'm totally blown away by the comments that photo got! I can't wait until I'm mobile enough to get back out to those horses and take a few more!

There's a definite buzz to the competition for me now - maybe that's all I needed to get a bit more interested in it!

Thanks for all your comments to this question and my pics,

Keep up the good work,

Donna

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May 29, 2007