 Who Me? |
What would you do? I was booked for a wedding that would happen this year on July 19th (THURSDAY) 2007. Well the bride got pregnant and was advised that she should postpone the wedding and not fly which she must to get to the destination (England to the US). They had already paid the deposit (half) to save the day. So the bride wanted to change it to July 19th 2008. By the way July 19th 2005 is when they met. First thing is that she had already talked me down from my weekday price, which was alright because weekday weddings aren't very common. Well now she wanted the same price for the next year on a SATURDAY!! I was not willing to give up a SATURDAY for a talked down weekday price, so she snapped and said that she thought my customer service was great up until now and wanted a refund of the retainer. I said well "if you're cancelling then you don't get the retainer, its in the contract. Last words were "you'll here from my lawyer".
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Jerry Frazier |
I have a $500 date change fee, if I am available, and the retainer will be applied to the new date. If I am not available on their new date, tough luck. No refund. This is all in my contract, which they sign. Send her lawyer your contract. Nothing more to do.
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Willie L |
I believe if you are a professional photographer that makes a living taking photos, then you might have to stick to your guns. If you are an amateur, trying to get a portfolio going, or trying to get your name "out there", I would cut her some slack. I guess that's what I would do as a photo hobbyist who has done a wedding before. Good Luck
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Who Me? |
Well the original package for a weekday wedding would have been $1,900 total. $2,900 for a Saturday. She talked me down to $1,400 for a Thursday. Then she wanted to change it to the next year for the same reduced price on a Saturday. July is high season and Saturdays are the most common booked. Another thing is that every year my prices go up on every package $500. So in 2008 the weekday package cost $2400 which she would be getting for 1G less. But she wanted it on a Saturday when in 2008 would have costed her $3400. Which means I'm losing alot of money for alot of experience.
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Todd Bennett |
Hey Justin, I don't make a living with photography. I woked in the construction industry for over 20 years now. People are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and get very testy when things don't go their way. The "you'll hear from my lawyer" threat is something I've heard and read more than once from a home buyer. I think even one of those threats ever came to fruition. If they do contact their lawyer, they either find out from him that they don't have a leg to stand on or they find out the attorney's bill is going to cost them more than it's worth. I think you have to stick to your guns.
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W. |
Tell the lady politely to go take a flying leap, and don't waste anymore time or energy on this one. She's forfeited a cancellation fee on THIS July's wedding date. If she wants to book you for 2008, on a Saturday, that is a separate commission (separated by 12 months!), and SHE owes YOU a separate retainer for that. Failing that, your business with the lady is now concluded (because you're not gonna get the 2008 wedding anyway). Have fun!
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Pete H |
Justin, Each situation when dealing with the public is unique and dynamic. Is this person someone who could give you future referral business? Are you in a small town? Do you generate serious income from wedding shoots? There is an old saying "A happy customer is a happy customer, a unhappy customer is 100 unhappy customers." Weddings are often far reaching for a professional photographer when it comes to future business. All the people associated with the wedding know more people. Mom knows 50 people, Dad does also, the bride, the groom, the grooms parents and friends..and on and on... My advice: If you are new to wedding photography and trying to get new business; I would give her every dime back cheerfully. Work today for tomorrow. Hopefully reschedule. As I said, each situation is different. You have to weigh the cause and effect of your decision based on the questions I wrote above. Customer satisfaction is EVERYTHING if you wish to succeed in business. This does NOT mean we let people take advantage of us. My motto when I deal with ANY client; "Under promise & over deliver." All the best, Pete
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- Dennis Flanagan Contact Dennis Flanagan Dennis Flanagan's Gallery |
Send her the full refund and politely tell her you are not available. This is an unusual circumstance, not simply changing their mind on a lark. Life is too short.
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Jerry Frazier |
I would never give away my price just to book. That's a mistake, as you are finding out. Also, your assertion that you go up $500 every year, OK. That's fine if you want to think that, but it's not really that easy. When you increase, you havve to provide soemthing more than you did before. The market determines how much you can increase, not you. This is just a little solid advice. I wouldn't give her a refund. If you do, she'll go walk all over the next photographer thinking that she can get her way if she pouts. Stick to your guns. If you are going to be a professional, act like one. I don't know any pros who would refund in this situation. There is a cost to booking. Look at all the time you've put in to this situation. That's WORK time, whether your client understands that or not. Also, that date has been blocked since she booked. There's value in that too.
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Karim Abiali |
Justin, I totally agree with Pete…He is thinking business and by keeping her happy you might get lots referral and compensate for her pricing. Unless you are a well known photographer and you have lot of business going on and you really don’t care. Having said that, things shouldn’t have reached at point where she tells you that you are going to hear from her lawyer. You could have negotiated with her trying to increase the fees and retain her. By doing this, you will be satisfied; she will have a happy wedding, and no harm done.
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Mark Feldstein |
People can sue others for anything, Justin. Whether they have sufficient legal and factual grounds to prevail is an entirely different story. You had a contract to perform a specific service on a specific date for a specific price. Changing the date changes a specific term of your agreement. In doing so, that allows you to do one of two things: Either modify the original agreement one way or another, like by charging more money, or not performing and notifying her of that, in writing by some type of certified mail. Personally, I'd bail on the whole deal.
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Mark Feldstein |
BTW, I agree completely with what Todd said earlier here. This gal, by her own big mouth, is nothng but potential problems. If she's posturing now, based on whatever frustrations she's got, you can bet she's going to be nothing but headaches both at the time of shoot and thereafter like picking prints, etc. She has more than ample time to mitigate any damages she may have by finding another photographer. Bow out of this one. And if you're looking for an additional legal basis to bail out, you can always cite "...an irreconciable breakdown of the wedding photographer-client relationship" which along with the change of date, would sufficiently serve to get you off the hook.
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Who Me? |
Thank You for all your time.
I'm thinking since my contract is solid (written by a lawyer), that I'll keep the money to pay for legal assistance. Heck, who knows, if I send the money back they might still sue me and then I'll have to dip into my own funds. I think from now on I might call it the deposit to reserve the day (services not included). This sucks, I just want take nice pictures. I can't afford an assistant and now I might have to pay for a Lawyer!! Sheesh
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Amy JACKSON |
Justin, Sorry to here about what you are going through. I agree that you should not give her the money back, especially since that was your retainer. You may not want any of the clients that she may have sent to you anyway because they would all want special deals. It does not sound like she was willing to negotiate any. In many situations I agree to make the customer happy but here I would stick to your contract. You don't want clients like that.
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Mike Rubin |
Do a search of major corp. and you will see pages of complaints to the BBB, It does not mean that all are legitimate. Send the BBB a copy of your contract and send the "bride" a copy to refresh her memory. Then tell her that you may take leagl action because of false statments.
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Mark Feldstein |
Before you don't refund her money, read about the refund policy in your own contract. And, even if it says deposits are non-refundable (which may be contrary to your state laws) it might be in your best interest to just give her the money back and be done with it. In other words, you mitigate your damages by trying to find another gig for that date and let her mitigate hers by finding another photographer who is available on whatever new date she wants. Be done with her. Take it light.
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Samuel Smith |
don't slander the pigs.bacon and poke chops. scenerio,i think your talking to slick.
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Who Me? |
talked to a lawyer today, the contract is in my favor. I can keep every cent.
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Pete H |
"talked to a lawyer today, the contract is in my favor. I can keep every cent."
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Who Me? |
My friend is a lawyer and I tried to save myself some money by sliping it into the conversation. Not the right kind of lawyer to ask, but he talked with one of his "lawyer buds" and said that the if the contract is for that one day then that is all they get. It is up to the photographer if they want to credit them for another day. Simply put, they voided the contract.
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Mark Feldstein |
Actually, as I think I said earlier, they essentially "breached the contract" or advised you of an "ancipatory breach" by changing a material term of the agreement. "Void" and "voidable", in this instance, are legal terms that have a different meaning. If someone "voids" a contract, then the parties are required to restore one another to the position they were in prior to entering into the contract, which in your case means refund the money. A "breached contract" is one that entitles the non-breaching party to damages while they move to "mitigate" or lessen the damages they actually may have incurred from the breach. Allowing them credit for another day is to "reform" the contract, by essentially rewriting the original significant terms. M.
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Who Me? |
OK,OK, don't make me throw up. Maybe I should hire you to write my letter to the BBB.
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Mike Rubin |
Mark, Thinking of changing careers, again ? Architecture can be more fun than law. lol
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Mark Feldstein |
No thanks Mike. I'll stick with photography and architecture for now, oh, and construction. ;>) Well, OTOH, I can be bought. Ok, you convinced me...at $250 bucks an hour, I'll be glad to write them. :>) Let's see...a $500 non-refundable retainer fee should cover it. LOL !!!
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Who Me? |
hah!! that was classic you ol' coon.
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