 Dawn P. |
Auto Setting ok for Weddings? HELP! My friend is having a shotgun wedding at the end of this week, and has asked me to photograph the event. I am a better-than-average amateur. I know all the posted advice says not to do a friend's wedding, but I'm stuck now. I'm not getting paid, and I have informed the couple that I may not deliver what they want. The wedding will be at a fancy hotel. It is a 6 pm outdoor ceremony with time for posed shots before and after. I am not being asked to photograph the dinner. I will be shooting with a Canon EOS Elan IIE (regular film) and a Canon 5D (digital). I don't really understand enough about f-stops, shutter speeds, etc, to do a good job. If I just shoot in auto mode, can I get some decent shots? Any advice would be appreciated.
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W. |
"If I just shoot in auto mode, can I get some decent shots?" If you (and they) are lucky, you can.
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Dawn P. |
I know that I am completely out of my league, and I am quite nervous about the event. Please reserve your sarcasm. I was hoping for some reassurance or helpful guidance. The Canon 5D is a decent camera, so I thought perhaps the auto setting would be better than most. Is this true?
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W. |
"Sarcasm"? Far from it, Dawn. Imo, my statement is a realistic appraisal of the situation you find yourself in. I'm dead-serious! Yes, the 5D is a "decent camera". A quite good camera, actually. Don't know if the auto setting is better than that of most other cameras, though. I doubt it, don't think there is very much difference. But the camera doesn't take the pictures. YOU do! The most expensive camera in the world is not gonna get you any photos worthy of that name if the photographer doesn't "really understand enough about f-stops, shutter speeds, etc, to do a good job.".... Take a trip on reality, Dawn! If you can't get out of this gig, then use the 5D, set it on Auto, and pray! BTW: I didn't see you mention a flashgun. Bring one and use for fill-flash. Good luck!
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Joan Bellinger |
Dawn, the previous poster was not being sarcastic. Sure, you may get lucky and the sun is in the right place, everyone is wearing about the same colors - no dramatic differences such as one person in black and one person in white, and you don't have more than a few people to photograph at one time. You can move people around to get better light, but you can't change what they're wearing and will need to adjust within the camera. Also, if you have more than a few people in one photo, you will need to adjust the camera to have everyone on the ends as focused as the people in the middle will be when set on Automatic. You didn't mention what type film you would be using with the Elan. With the sun setting later now, 400 ASA should work. I use Fujifilm Superia. And bring more than you think you will use. The fill flash would take care of the shadows. With the 5D, you didn't mention what size memory card, but just like the film, make sure you have memory than you think you riwll use. If you have any more details on the shoot, please let us know.
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Samuel Smith |
dawn,your thread double posted.if nothing else go to the top left of the page,hit the new questions link and when new questions come up scroll down till you find the other one. you'll be fine,sam
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Matthew A. Bamberg |
Hi Dawn, candid photography is my favorite and you almost have no choice but to use an auto setting, cause actions happen fast. I'd say follow these guidelines (of course they are biased, cause they're from my point of view). 1. Find people having fun and zoom in to get portraits of people smiling or laughing.
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anonymous |
I shoot all my weddings in Manual mode (not even AV or TV mode), but if I was you, I would shot in AV or TV mode and shoot RAW images, that way you can fix any exposure problems (to a certain degree) as easily as possible.
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Derek J. Gordon |
wow...well, speaking of things out of left field, I hear the Mets are picking up a pretty good outfielder... Anyways, despite the ranting above- the others had all good advice: Yeah, you did probably get in over your head, but you'll learn more doing this than any other situation. If you want to try to do a little more than just point and shoot in auto- get a copy of Understanding Exposure by petersen or Perfect Digital Exposure by Zuckerman- either one is relatively short and can give you at least a basic understanding of aperture, shutter speed and light. (Although both are great books, Understanding Exposure is what I learned on and so did many people I know- that would be my choice) Use the next few days to crash course yourself on the basics and you'll at least arm yourself with some basic building blocks and an understanding of what you are looking to do. You may still find yourself shooting in auto, but at least you'll have a better chance of catching great shots by understanding what conditions you are looking for- and possibly branch out a little into aper priority or shutter priority. (Definitely shoot in RAW and bring plenty of memory cards too). D
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Sharon Day |
I see Sam is in rare form tonight :o)! I am a nature photographer. It's all I care about but occasionally I'm pressed to shoot an event at church. I have the Nikon D200 and the SB800 flash. I put them on auto and it does a good job. If you can get a flash bracket and off shoe cord you'll be able to avoid red eye, but if not you can fix it in PS. (sorry Sam) I've taken outdoor shots with the D70 and SB800 in auto as well
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anonymous |
Sam - you are the one that is down right RUDE!!!!! I have never seen something so rude on this message board EVER. Dawn asked if she would get decent shots in auto, I have never shot a wedding in auto, so I wouldn't know. I suggested shooting in AV or TV, which means she doesn't have to deal with too many manual settings, and if she has problems, can fix it in CS2 if she shoots raw - what is wrong with that answer? Now, as far as I am concerned, and I didn't bring it up (as I didn't want to sound negative), but if Dawn doesn't know how to use TV or AV modes, and only auto - then she probably needs to learn quickly. Or risk the quality and exposure of auto. Obviously Sam has had a BAD day......as we all didnt' deserve to be spoken to like that.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Since it's outside, avoid the empty background of darkness when it gets late after the sun goes down. That way your built in flash won't make the mistake of attempting to light up the night when all you wanted was to light up some people standing 8ft away. That would be number 8 to the other 7 that I would add.  Later dweebs
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
 Picture didn't come up.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
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Kerry L. Walker |
I don't think Sam was being rude, just being Sam, LOL. However, he does have a point. Dawn is shooting a wedding THIS WEEKEND, not six months from now. She doesn't need, and doesn't have time for, a course in shooting a wedding in anything other than full auto. Sure, I shoot weddings in manual but then I am so danged old that I had to learn to shoot in manual. That's all there was when I was a kid. Dawn, you have to do what you are comfortable with doing. Shoot in full auto. You won't get the same kind of results a pro shooting in manual and varying his/her aperture to suit the desired depth of field for each shot but you will come a lot closer to getting decent to good shots than you would in trying something new. A wedding is no place to learn how to shoot. As far as which camera to use (I know you said you would be using both) I can give you two options and how each will benefit you. The digital will allow you to check each shot after you shoot to see if you like what you shot. The film will give you a greater exposure latitude. As most folks here know, I am one of the few who prefers the film for that very reason. It makes it a lot easier to get both the black tux and the white gown (if those are the colors they are using) in proper exposure. The suggestion to use a flash is a good one. Believe it or not a flash is often more useful outside on a sunny day than you can imagine, especially when it is really sunny and there are a lot of shadows - less necessary when it is cloudy. Good luck.
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John P. Sandstedt |
Many of us, in any number of threads, have recommended that folks like you decline shooting a friend's wedding. It's the best way to lose a friend. That being said, I've shot weddings with my Canon EOS 620 and EOS 3. I had purchased a 420-EZ flash for the 620; I found it wasn't fully compatible with the EOS 3. Accordingly, I shot in Program mode - and got wonderful results. Do not use Auto with your 5D. If that camera works like my 30D, you'll be unhappy with the focus point selected by the camera. Use Program or Av - especially if your flash is E-TTL. Be careful of ISO 400 film with flash. I found I often got ruddy complexions due to too much flash power [in the Program Mode.] If you're going to use flash, use ISO 100 or 200 Fuji Superia. After all is said and done, plan on using the 5D only. Use the Elan II only as a back-up, if you run out of memory card space or the camera fails. And, as one of the other threaders said, set the camera for high res JPEGS and RAW.
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Kerry L. Walker |
"Do you actually READ that gibberish, arrogantly devoid of punctuation? Our Sam apparently hasn't yet grasped the concept of language as a system of rules designed and evolved to communicate. So he ain't communicating." Communication is the passing of a thought from one to another, regardless of the method. Faulkner became a famous author using less punctuation in a book than you will find in one of these threads. I guess what I am saying is that yes, I read it and yes, I understood it. LOL
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W. |
Gibberish is NOT "the passing of a thought from one to another".... Gibberish, especially if it's intentional, is specifically meant to cause confusion. Confusing ? communicating. Quite the opposite.
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Rom A.G. |
Since it's a 6pm wedding, I am sure everyone will arrive by 7pm. The Sun will have set, and you will need a real powerful flash, not the built-in one. Try not to go above ISO200, as noise will increase on enlargements. It's always better to underexpose as you can brighten the photos later rather than over-expose.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
The pot and the kettle?
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Irene Troy |
Hi Dawn – first a very real disclaimer: I do not shoot weddings! I primarily shoot nature and wildlife; therefore, I am not in a position to offer you specific advice for this wedding. However, I do use the Canon 5D and can offer you some very specific camera advice. This is – in the opinions of some really top pros – one of the best cameras that Canon has ever released. But, I have found that when shooting in low light situations – such as you might encounter in early evening – that the camera tends to overexpose just a bit. You might want to try shooting a few frames in a similar setup (or, if possible where the wedding is being held) prior to the actual wedding so that you can get a feel for how the camera measures light. Use your histogram as much as possible and you may be able to get enough of a grasp so that you can set exposure compensation accordingly. BTW: one good trick may be to set auto exposure bracketing so that for every shot you automatically get three shots – one at the set exposure; one under by one stop and one over by one stop. This can save a shot if the exposure happens to be off. You can use the exposure bracketing in auto mode. Oh – you really need to get hold of a flash gun so that you can shoot in low light; however, be aware that shooting with flash in auto can be difficult, so make sure you bracket. All of this means that you want a really big (2-4 gb) flash card. If you live in the US you can order one today from B&H http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ and get it by Thursday or Friday. I wish you luck – and keep in mind that the folks who have asked you to do the photography have a choice; they asked you even after you told them that you might not have the skills to give them great images. Just do your best, that’s all they can expect.
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Michael A. Bielat |
Dawn, first off best of luck this weekend. You will need to do your research though if you want to be confident... Look at wedding photography company websites and search and get inspiration from their images... Heck even try to replicate some... Your camera should have matrix metering. I am a Nikon guy so forgive me for not knowing Canon's features too well. Get a 1-4gig memory card, Shoot in RAW and try at least getting comfortable with aperture or shutter priority settings... Make sure your subjects are in FOCUS! You can not photoshop something to fix a ton of blur! Even trying to fix a little blur is problematic! Set the proper white balance as well... Just my 2 cents on what could make your life a little easier.
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Dawn P. |
Thank you to everyone who has given advice. I am pretty good at the artistic set-up of a shot (placing people in good places, framing the shot, eliminated distractions, etc). I shoot thousands of photos a year, mostly photos of my 2 young kids (most candids but some portraits) and nature shots. I shoot lots of pics, and everyone who looks at my albums always compliments the photos. Albeit, the ones looking at my albums are not professional photographers. That is how I got roped into shooting this wedding. All that being said, my technical skills are lacking. I do know the basics of shutter speed and aperature, but I don't use them enough to feel confident about doing it quickly at a wedding and getting it right. For posed shots, I have time to think about it, and I should be ok making camera adjustments. I did take a photography course years ago, but I mainly shoot in auto mode, so my skills with the adjustments are lacking. One of my biggest concerns is the candids because, of course, there is only one chance to get them right. For the bride walking down the aisle, first kiss, etc, I'm worried that auto mode might not be good enough. To answer some posted questions, I will be using a Canon Speedlite 430EX flash. This is new to me, so I'm not too versed in its use. Do I need to use the diffuser? I bought three 2GB memory cards, and I will shoot in RAW. Do you think that'll be enough cards? I also plan on having at least 5 to 10 rolls of film also. Thanks for the recommendations on brands. I think I will do the auto-exposure bracketing. Good idea. Will this use too much memory though if I am shooting RAW? I do plan on going to the wedding site the day before (at the same time of day) to scout out the setting and the light. The wedding is out of town, so unfortunately I can't go any earlier in the week. I have my tripod packed, but do you think I will need it? I don't remember the professional photographer at my wedding using his. It seems like there is too much action to bother with it at a wedding, but I do see postings about bringing it. Again, thank you so much to everyone who has posted. I have the utmost respect for people who do this for a living.
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Samuel Smith |
dawn,if your not familar with bracketing,you'll miss other shots.do you set it at 1/3 1/2 over under.yeah it's a 3 shot sequence,wanna spend that kinda time? I had the idea you had left the building and your friends would be left with no photographer.at least 10 rolls of film,might even want to stash another 3 rolls in your ride.under the seat in an oven mitt or a cooler,not the glove box. help is one thing.passion,emotion and compliance?i really ain't good at that. rude/honest.i'll leave that to the judges.well they deleted my post,which is usually the result of a complaint,not the content or it's intent. I suppose there are times i'd rather eat maggots off a paper plate than dine on lobster in the wrong company.this is photography,i painted a picture. maybe some of you are scared her results will rival yours.on auto.would'nt that be a hoot. i'm just glad ya did'nt run her off. sam
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
If you use auto bracket on everything with raw files, that'll be just like using one of those gig cards. I'd say forget about that. You'll bury yourself in 66% of duplicates or throw aways. Since you have a flash, read the manual about how it works, works with the camera on auto, and get used to it. If you have decent pictures with what you've done before, take the same approach. Despite what people will tell you, different subject matter doesn't have that profound a difference in the fundamentals of getting pictures. Because it's a wedding, people tend to apply this ultra focused specialization to shooting one. If all you have is a paint brush, then don't freak out about not being able to paint a house with just one paint brush. You won't have to, just do what you can do that one paint brush allows you to. Getting a record of the people there, and getting a record of what went on and how everyone was feeling should be what you're after. And that's what they'll probably wanting because don't sale the bride/groom so short thinking they're not aware of your experience, lack of it, or qualifications. Relax, take it easy. 
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Bernard |
Even though emotion was mistaken for sarcasm, the response to the emotion was so funny, and entertaining. most importantly the question was answered.
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W. |
"Canon Speedlite 430EX flash. This is new to me, so I'm not too versed in its use. Do I need to use the diffuser?" Only if you shoot wider wide angle than 24mm (35mm equivalent). If not, a diffuser will cut your flash range. "I bought three 2GB memory cards, and I will shoot in RAW. Do you think that'll be enough cards?" Yes. "I also plan on having at least 5 to 10 rolls of film also. Thanks for the recommendations on brands." I left film behind 5 years ago. Can't recommend current films. "I think I will do the auto-exposure bracketing. Good idea. Will this use too much memory though if I am shooting RAW?" Yes, it will use a lot of memory, but you have enough. "I have my tripod packed, but do you think I will need it? I don't remember the professional photographer at my wedding using his. It seems like there is too much action to bother with it at a wedding, but I do see postings about bringing it." Bring it for the formals.
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Deborah Liperote |
Dawn, If your friends saw the quality of your albums and really like your work than don't worry about. They saw your "product" and feel you are competent. Spend time at this point going through wedding shoots here at BP get a book or go to borders and get a cup of coffee and look through some wedding photography books to get some creative ideas on composition. make the day as sentimental as you can. pictures of everything sweet and warm and romantic. don't be shy about telling people where to stand what to do.i'm sure you know this but people aren't always going to comply with you - take the bull by the horns to get the photos you want. they may get a little tired of it but... they will love you when the wedding is over and all they have are the photos. Then even if you did mess up a little on the technical portion hopefully they don't even notice it because you got so many wonderful shots! Shoot alot photojournalistic style. Keep eyes peeled for tender moments that they don't even know you capture. Just my suggestions in this thread to add to the others :-)
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Entertaining is right.
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Anna N. Spruill |
I say jump in and enjoy the experience instead of stressing. It's your friend- She knows your not a professional, Your doing it for free with no expectations. What a great learning experience this could be. You have to start somewhere! Though you may not capture every shot I'm sure you'll get some great ones! My first wedding was a friend that knew I didn't have experience in the wedding field. We sat down decided on the formal shots she would like included. I made a list of must have shots, had another friend to come and assist me with the organization and carrying my extra equipment. It was a great learining experience. I captured a lot of great memories. From this I gained confidence and a little experience. Also booked 2 other weddings from her guest that viewed her photos! Advise: Use the digital as much as possible because you can check to be sure you captured the shot! Take lots and lots of pictures. If the lighting gets poor you may want to switch to tv mode to avoid a slow shutter speed that may cause blur. For hand held shots I generally set the shutter no lower than 80 and let the camera choose the aperature. Let your flash take care of the rest. (This is a starting point not may not be perfect for all situations so don't forget to check your pictures on your screen and make adjustments.) Start using your manual modes when taking photos of your kids and eventually it comes second nature and you will not have to depend on the auto mode. Don't forget extra batteries, and you should have enough memory! Good Luck and Have fun!
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Joan Bellinger |
Dawn, depending on the time people have, you may be able to re-stage some shots after the ceremony if needed.
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Samuel Smith |
thank you for reposting W.a complete 180 from the original,yet I think bracketing might ruin her time.i thought your original post was an embalming technique,but your last may be truely helpful.my thanks. I looked up moron in the dictionary tonight.yeah it's not really a good photo of me,but I hope to update it soon. values or vanity,sam sam
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Irene Troy |
Sam – I’m a bit confused by your post about bracketing (I actually understand your writing, which is sometimes a feat in itself lol). As you already know, I mostly photograph wildlife and nature. I bracket a lot and cannot understand why you think that bracketing would slow shooting. I bracket when the light is odd or very contrasty. I use a Canon 5D which shoots at 3 fps with less than .04 seconds between frames. I think, but may be wrong, that even a slower camera will still shoot fast enough so that bracketing will not become a time issue. I recognize that in post-capture editing that it is possible to adjust exposure, but I prefer trying to get things right while shooting. The less experience one has, the more important bracketing can become. Dawn admits to a lack of experience in this particular field of photography. By bracketing her shots I think she might have a better chance of capturing the images she wants. Now the issue of storage on the CF card is another issue altogether – if this is a problem because the card is too small, then I would eliminate the bracketing. Anyway, this is not meant as an argument, but rather a question to clarify my own confusion. Irene
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Debby A. Tabb |
I hate Questions like this , not because you asked it Dawn but what it stirs. no matter who it is and what thier level of readiness is, my answer is the same: you have already been put in a corner with this, you are not going to let your friend down. you have proven that by Not charging her for it. So, Go Do it dispite what anyone else thinks. Yes, shoot on Auto I have choose SP and jpeg with great results. Know your poses, this is importrant. and if possible get some fill light. have enough battery as you should use your monitor to check your capture. but no matter what, don't let anyone make you feel inadiquite, go in there to make a difference to a couple who are obviously close enough to you that you took on a challange. and remember they had a choice as well, and they chose you. I hope this helps, Debby
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Deborah Liperote |
I second that emotion Debby, From one Debbie to another.
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Samuel Smith |
hey irene,well dawn also, familarity with your camera.ever used the bracketing feature before? it's right here in my functions button and I misplaced it. non familiarity breeds mistakes.was it that long ago irene you said since you went manual,you would never go back?you learned,got comfortable,and confident,of course maybe a trial and error period,yet not in a few days. in dawns last post she said I think I will use,already a lack of confidence.can't even be sure she understands the concept. I think she's already scared to death she will fail her friends.yet even to try to push one more bit of knowledge or info into that hectic world,boom. you and I can say it's so simple,many can say it's so simple,but without the knowing and doing of things past and present,it's a jungle. the cameras ability isn't in question.many old cameras are more than capable to record the festivities.and in this case,so is the operator. my thinking was,the hair that broke the camels back. ok troublemaking irene?ah,ya know i'm laughing. hey cookie,i take it you missed my post bp deleted.i said the same thing as you,guess I wasn't as nice.censorship ain't so bad,as long as it applies to all and is not dictated by individual complaints and is a direct result of guidelines and structure.also notification should be given as to the guideline infraction or complaint assessed against said individual.even a monopod has a leg to stand on,sam
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Debby A. Tabb |
Hey Sam, I did miss something, I skimed this thread as I saw some .... but I did see referance to you, but thought something had been mis understood. You no trouble maker, are ya Sam. Hope your having a great night.
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Samuel Smith |
a reference to me,and it was allowed to be posted! welllll,i wasn't misunderstood.some did't have their steel toed shoes on and I stepped on some toes. ok,in reality I snapped.postal.well the sheriff of nottingham was passing down new laws and,i disagreed. but yes,having a great night,sam
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Bernard |
Sam you started this.... you must be a genius, Dawn all the attention! don't you feel special, or are you just amazed, and don't forget these are the pro's of the world.
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Debby A. Tabb |
Wow! I am really confused !and I don't think it's my meds. I think i'a out here, it is to thepoint where I hate these "new to BP " threads as well, you just don't know what is real or ment just to cause disturbances between members. It's a real shame that is how some get thier kicks. and the only solution is for all of us to have tolorance for each others opinions. and over look the urge to strick in irritation. Debby
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Debby A. Tabb |
Wow! I am really confused !and I don't think it's my meds. I think i'a out here, it is to thepoint where I hate these "new to BP " threads as well, you just don't know what is real or ment just to cause disturbances between members. It's a real shame that is how some get thier kicks. and the only solution is for all of us to have tolorance for each others opinions. and over look the urge to strike in irritation. Debby
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Bernard |
Hey Deb read my last tread carefully, you'll notice compliments, especially for a nervous Dawn. pass the champagne
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Josh Henderson |
Hey Dawn don't worry, did you know that Joe Buissink shoots on program. Just make sure that your shutter speed doesn't fall below your focal length and your golden. If you see blinking inside your view finder that means you most likely need to change your ISO. 200-400 for outside, 400-800 inside, 1600 for grainy shots, fill flash when you absolutely need it. Have fun.
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Samuel Smith |
welcome josh,yeah,name drop joe.world famous joe?my best regards. and bernard,i will accept I started this,and all is my fault.if dawn has less than great results,my fault.she was a student in my ignore the bs of photography class. and well debby,i made a strike.i still don't think I was wrong,and i'll do it again. I am fine debby,your contribution is amazing.let the rest go. thank you for being a friend,traveled down the road and back again.your heart is true your a pal and a confidant. but did WE help dawn? sam
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Josh Henderson |
I was just trying to make Dawn feel a little more at ease, that a great wedding photographer uses program. Dawn if your subject is heavily backlit, spotmeter the eyes up close, lock the exposure or remember it and set in the manual mode. Shoot away, just remember if the light changes spotmeter again. Wedding photography can be easy if you aren't playing with all your buttons. Your LCD is your best friend, if you can't see the detail its not there. Because you have so little memory I would rather you shoot JPEG and bracket. Don't rely on PS to give you an excellent exposure you only have 2 stops to play with. With your film you'll have more play. I would shoot B&W's with the film. You'll do a great job, we all have faith in you. Josh
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Josh Henderson |
Hey Dawn, Is your wedding shoot today? Let us know how the pictures turn out.
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Samuel Smith |
i suppose. josh/slick/knowledge. I post with sincerity,shots and humor. ok,sam
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