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Photography Question 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini
 

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  Almond flowers
Almond flowers
f11, 1/3000, 300 mm, Sfax_ tunsia, 26 Jan 2007
© Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini
Fuji Finepix S9500...
 
  Almond flowers
Almond flowers
f11, 1/3000, 300 mm, Sfax_ tunsia, 26 Jan 2007
© Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini
 
 
How can read these shots?


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1/28/2007 10:08:16 AM

 
John Rhodes
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/24/2005
  Rafik, both shots are really underexposed due to the very short shutter speed. Try to reshoot with the correct exposure as indicated by your camera. Shooting in RAW gives more room for recovering detials lost in the shadows, but the shot should be captured as close as possible to the best exposure possible in-camera.

John


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1/28/2007 10:49:53 AM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  ah rafik,
you may be asking a question that only you have an answer.
I may see a start in the life cycle of an almond tree,or a part of or just a flower.
now as john said he thought they were underexposed.now I believe you are not worried about exposure to a point,but yet to a point in time or something close to it.
is there a way,,as I think your trying to do,capture time?i guess I would have to say yes.but it is only that the individual photographer that takes the photograph would understand why we took the photo.but to convey that message is only what a few strive for.
I could never capture the caring and companionship of my last dog.
many capture the suffering of a community after a tragic event,the killings between different religious sects,or maybe just a disagreement between two brothers who may not speak again for years.
I don't believe through your photography you can deliver a message without some hint as to your goal.without at least a story,by-line or poem to reflect your intent.
people don't see the same message in a photograph,time or otherwise.
as we don't see their message.and yes I agree ,some really have no clue as to a message or intent to convey an idea.
but,is that a fault?i can't surmise or agree with that.
am I even close,sam


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1/28/2007 7:05:20 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  How can I read them as in how they look? Too dark as everyone else said.
How can I read them as in what do I get from them? Don't get anything from them. It's just a regular snapshot of a flower. Didn't portray it in anyway that would bring out any feeling about how it's shaped or looks.
Looks like you walked up, took a picture, walked away. Like documenting evidence that there was a flower there.


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1/28/2007 11:46:14 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  i even wondered if that they were shot at 300mm might be a clue?
a little more info rafik,sam


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1/29/2007 12:32:35 PM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   Hi Sam,
Yes you've got reason when you noticed that I'm looking for "Time". It's here when the spring will begin.
About these shots, I use 300 mm (in classic lens = 135mm: it's marked on the lens) and may be + macro. why I say "may be"?: Because when I'm trying to shoot I don't need the LCD of the camera , however, I usually use the view-finder. In fact, I don't verify if I've touched "Macro buttom". All what I remember that flowers are further on my lens.(ther is a big distance between flowers and lens. I'm sure for this.)
I'll try it again and I'll verify the macro option, but I'll never obtain the same "time".
Now I can ask an other question: If these shots become in grayscale mode, can we read the same things? And what about transform, especially when we make some adjusments by photoshop? try to imagine. Friendly Rafik.


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1/29/2007 2:46:09 PM

 
Kai Eiselein
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/21/2003
  I think Rafik may be asking if there is any way to adjust the photos. I think he was trying to capture when the flowers were at the height of their bloom and won't be able to try to get a better shot.


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1/29/2007 4:29:39 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  no kai,he was not looking for the correct exposure.he is asking about the capture of time,and that other photographers have a great interest in it.
well,that's my take.


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1/29/2007 7:50:42 PM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   Hi Kai, getting a correct exposure with digital camera is too easy. Making adjustements with photoshop is even easier. Sam has understood very well what I'm looking for.
When we shoot, we can stop "time". It's the end winter refered to by the flowers for instance. It's 26 January 2007. It's about 9 AM... But who can prove that? And if we turn it to grayscale mode, are we keeping the same indices refering "time"? also, when we make any other adjustements: Can shot keep the same expression related to this tense?
This is a big problem with this philosophy!


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1/30/2007 3:56:08 AM

 
Bob Cammarata
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/17/2003
  In order to demonstrate a sense of time, the images need more "information".

If your intent was to convey "the coming of spring", maybe a close-up of an early spring growth pushing up through a frozen earth would be more effective.

Quite often, story-telling images will mean more to the photographer than to the viewer. The person taking the shot was THERE and knows exactly what he or she was thinking or feeling at the instant that shutter was depressed.
What the viewer sees is a crafted collection of colors and shapes that need to be examined and analyzed to descern the intent of the phographer.
A truly effective photograph will convey the same "story" the shooter intended and will stand alone...without a title or caption.


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1/30/2007 5:14:34 AM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   Thank you Bob for your ineterest.I think the images that convey "the coming of going differs from one region to another in Tunisia we do not witness cold weather. As for the rest I totally agree with you.


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1/31/2007 12:51:47 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  my interest rafik,is the chasing of light.
where are the colors and the timing so much,as you say time,so much a critical factor,as the capture of a scene?
some say I was just there once.this is what I came up with.can I do better?
how can I fix this?
I can't appluad you for your goal,or even say I agree with it or denounce it,but I can chime in and say I respect your goal.
yet a question?before I respond to a question I check galleries and bio.
that my basketball team has won 3 straight games should mean what?after the game I ask about their grades.
and after I photograph?could i,i have done better?
never make it easy on yourself,sam


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1/31/2007 7:12:17 PM

 
Stacy L. Robertson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  wow, I am confused, I was very nice and tried to help Rafik with his questions about his images and even sent him an e-mail. He responded and said his english was terrible, I couldn't even understand what he was trying to say "type" to me. But on this thread his english seems more than perfect. Hmmm, I wonder??????????


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2/1/2007 7:03:24 AM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   Yes sam, light is a capital element in photography. Sometimes can give notion of "Time" especially when the subjet move or play. We'll certainly stop this. But when we fix it can we read date as a piont in year (for instance)? however we can read the part in that day such as: "morning, afternoon, night... " but in covered stadium can't read exactly this periode of day because there is an artificial light. Are you agree with me? and what about b/w photo in this case? In your galery Sam, there is many interesting things related to this notion, but try sam to convert some shot to the b/w with photoshop and make some adjustements if you and than ask the same questions. In fact can you do better with each part of "time"? every shooter can ask himself : what's our goal when we are looking for better shot? and why do we fix shot in color mode or in b/w one? rafik


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2/1/2007 2:18:16 PM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   Hi Stacy, I've usually some problems to explane my request and need help especially my wife is an english teacher, However I'm usually trying to discuss in this forum because I find it very helpful to my english and knowledge in photography.


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2/1/2007 2:32:09 PM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   Stacy, can you usually think for "time" when you shoot?


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2/1/2007 2:36:55 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  hello again rafik,
I do not see in b/w.
stark in nature to me,easy to cover up mistakes and exposure.
to me it is a close to death expierence.why rape a photo of color?
to steal a bit of color,to try and change the light,to lessen or enhance soft or harsh light.of course I don't know a photo program or have a clue as to my own developing of my film.
on a cloudy day I see a bleak sense of my surroundings,to me only,maybe,that is b/w.frozen at maybe 10 degrees or even less,and things perish.
many things have a great influence on a photographers,say,outlook or perception,of capture.
I enjoy your take on this.sure my brain hurt for a while to figure some of this out,but it wasn't about equiptment or photo program,but yet an idea.
more of what I think this site should be about,sam


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2/1/2007 9:42:22 PM

 
Stacy L. Robertson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  Cool, I am so glad that was cleared up cause I really was interested in your photography! You have a neat sense of it. I do think for time when I shoot, I just shoot when I want. Thanks for understanding.


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2/2/2007 8:52:49 AM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   Yes Sam, what you say is very interesting especially when you see this conversion into BW that it is a violate. Of my share I see that the numerical photograph is based on the final improvement since its birth. indeed the traditional photograph (silver) is a true image as certain philosophers say it because it immortailse the trace of time forever, however that the numerical one allows the modification constantly and anyhow and therefore I always put myself the question keep us to it even truth during this conversion into BW. photoshop with my direction evoked several questioning and problems in the notion of time. be you of acord with me? Have to be noticed that certain photographs which gain the contest of betterphoto.did COM lose the notion of time? I have twists?
(translated by http://traduction.translated.net)


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2/3/2007 8:03:49 AM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   It is true Stacy whom you shoot when you want and every photographer also make the same I think, but the problem are we giving a big importance at this "crucial" moment what we call in term of photography instantanious?
Are frame, composition, blur, depth ... all our occupation in shooting?


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2/3/2007 8:20:53 AM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   Hello again Stacy,
I visited your gallery and I find what you are making is just in term of photography. Nevertheless, this could have a relation with the notion of "time" little present thing(matter) in your photos. To my opinion you can always photograph the subjects simple as you say it in your bio but by hunting(by chasing away) more and more the unpredictable moments which never occur second time.
Are you agree with me? friendly Rafik.


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2/3/2007 9:47:20 AM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  i am in accord rafik,
but don't alienate a specific gallery.
i know it's not your intent,but offense may be taken.
I don't consider the conversion of a photo to b/w a violation.just a change I don't understand.the same as with photo programs that add color or whatever.not really my call.i have an opinion,and most know it,but it is just that.
so maybe you say I need to voice my opinion on all shots as the changing of time?oh boy.all have the liberty to change their photos.
even if the actual photo wasn't as captured,and I know those settings aren't going to capture the scene?i am not the photo police.
maybe it's that only when we grow older do we question such things,sam


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2/3/2007 5:41:51 PM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini  
 
 
Hello Sam,
Admittedly, I do not intend to align a specific gallery. Indeed I want just that you reflect on this phenomenon and these problems of “time”.
It ya of criticisms of art which considered that the final improvement of the digital images is a violation of instantaneous photographic and I believed that you announce those which say it because for me I share their opinion to them although any photographer is free of what he wants to do and I usualy respect them with any sincerity.
I believe Sam that my much interested subject of photographers. I owe him all my respect. I thank speaker very on this subject because I what is called needed the assistance on “the collective intelligence” as Pierre Livy sees it and who binds it with the numerical practices and the communication outdistances on the Net. It is a French writer and a university professor. I invite by this occasion all shooters if they can read the same things in new joined shots?
I found the idea of forum is most effective for my thesis thanks to the open discussion which was a little hard because of my English and the ergonomics of the Betterphoto site.Com. Thanks, Rafik
french version:Bonjour Sam,
Certes, je n'ai pas l'intention d'aligner une galerie spécifique. En effet je veux just que vous refléchissiez sur ce phénomène et cette problèmatique du "temps".
Il ya des critiques d'art qui ont considéré que la retouche des images numériques est une violation de l'instantané photographique et j'ai cru que vous faites part de ceux qui le disent parce que pour moi je leur partage leur opinion bien que tout photographe est libre de ce qu'il veut faire et je les respecte avec toute sincérité.
Je crois Sam que mon sujet interésse beaucoup de photographes. Je lui dois tout mon respect. Je remercie tout intervenant à ce sujet parce que j'avais besoin de l'aide sur ce qu'on appelle "l'intelligence collective" comme le voit Pierre Livy et qui le lie avec les pratiques numériques et la communication distance sur le net. C'est un écrivain français et un professeur universitaire.Par cette occasion je profite de poser la nouvelle quetion avec les nouvelles photos ci-joint si on peut relire la même chose avec ces nouvelles fleurs?
J'ai trouvé l'idée de forum est la plus efficace pour ma thèse grace à la discussion ouverte qui était un peu dure à cause de mon anglais et l'ergonomie du site Betterphoto.com. Thanks, Rafik


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2/4/2007 2:04:18 AM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini  
 
  folowers (2)
folowers (2)
© Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini
Fuji Finepix S9500...
 
  Flowers (2)
Flowers (2)
© Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini
Fuji Finepix S9500...
 
  Flowers (2)
Flowers (2)
© Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini
Fuji Finepix S9500...
 
 
Can we read the same with these new shots?


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2/4/2007 2:15:13 AM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  well rafik,
are these even the original shots?
anymore we can have no trust as to even that.
as far as these photos,i would have to say I am trying,but I can read nothing into them.even knowing your goal I can not say I understand.others may.
but I question everything.because someone is a professor or art critic or scientist,does it influence my opinion?not very much unless it's just a technical aspect on a very particular point.
in general,each moment a photo is taken,it is a capture of time wether the photographer has the intent or not.
yet you ask if your photos convey this message.i know those same flowers will never bloom again.i know that you have to be there to capture that moment that they achieve full bloom.the emergence of the buds may be captured,and yes,only at a certain time.
then ,will that light ever again appear to shine the same way on that object at that time.
and will you ever be at that place at that time?
I think only through expierences can we even come close to understanding someone elses photography,or as you say,time.
sam


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2/4/2007 8:57:54 PM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   It is very intelligent Sam, As you notice, for this time, I do not put any indications on these shots. Nevertheless you could usually read the indices of time so that I understood. They are buds and flowers of an apple tree and shoot them by 300 mm + macro but without tripod. Is what you could note it too? As for the originality as of the these photographs, Sam cheer. Seriously I awaited this question of you but not someone else because you are almost the only shooter who connects deeply with the drafting of this subject. Indeed, at the end of the originality they are not original because I carried out a redimensioning (resize) to be able to download them on the site, then a light adjustment on the level of the automatic colors and on the level of automatic contrast with the program photoshop (this is equal to an adjustment on the level of pulling with the silver method) but, all the same compared to the trace recorded on the sim card of the camera it is always a modification but I think that it does not arrive at the level of the violation, because numerical technology; to my knowledge; try to simulate the traditional one either in photography or in the other fields of production. Are you agree with me, Rafik.


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2/5/2007 12:32:31 AM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   French answer to Sam:
C'est très intelligent Sam, Comme vous le remarquez peut être, pour cette fois-ci je ne mets pas des indications sur ces photos. Néanmoins vous avez pu lire les indices du temps à ce que j'ai compris. Ce sont des bourgeons et des fleurs d'un arbre de pommes. Est ce que vous avez pu le noter aussi? J'utilise 300 mm comme objectif + macro et sans trépied. Quant à l'originalité de ces photos, Bravo Sam. Sérieusement j'attendais cette question de vous mais pas de quelqu'un d'autres parce que vous êtes presque le seul qui se branche profondément à la rédaction de ce sujet. Effectivement, au terme de l'originalité se ne sont pas originales car j'ai effectué un redimensionnement pour pouvoir les télécharger sur le site puis un léger reglage au niveau des couleurs automatiques et au niveau du contraste automatique avec le programme photoshop (ceci est égal à un reglage au niveau du tirage avec la méthode argentique) mais, tout de même par rapport à la trace enregistrée sur la carte sim de l'appareil, c'est toujours une modification mais je pense qu'elle n'arrive pas au niveau d'une violation car la technologie numérique; à ma connaissance; essaie toujours de simuler le classique soit dans la photographie soit dans les autres domaines de production,Rafik.


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2/5/2007 12:42:26 AM

 
Stacy L. Robertson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/26/2006
  Well, I don't really know how to take this thread so I am getting off it. Your question is confusing and I don't know how to answer the one about my gallery. So...good luck and I hope you have fun reading your own shots.


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2/5/2007 7:25:02 AM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   Hi Stacy, Concerning your gallery, I find that there are interesting things, but I'd like you to think with me about the questioning related to "time" . That does not mean that you must do anything on your photographs. Quite simply if you think of stopping the moment during the shot, what will you do?knowing that you have to keep your focus on the which you are photographing?This does not devalue your photography which is notnot my intention, either.
As for the reading of my photographs, I am not entertainig myself by inviting my friends photographers to read them, but quite simply: can we read the same signals of time in the same way? This what Pierre Levy calls the “collective Itelligence”: it is a work in French language.
I hope Stacy that there no misunderstanding this time. friendly, Rafik.
The french text:
Hi Stacy, Pour ce qui concerne votre galerie, je vois qu'il y a des choses assez interessantes, mais je veux que tu reflechisse avec moi à propos un questionnement sur le "temps". Cela ne veut pas dire que vous devez faire quoi que ce soit sur vos photos. Tout simplement si vous pensiez à arrêter l'instant lors du déclenchement, qu'allez vous faire tout en gardant votre interêt avec les sujets que vous aimez photographier? ceci ne dévalorise pas votre photographie et ce n'est pas mon intention.
Quant à la lecture de mes photos, je ne suis pas en train de m'amuser en invitant mes amis photographes à les lire, mais tout simplement : Pouvons nous lire les mêmes signaux du temps et de la même manière? Ceci entre dans ce que l'appelle Pierre Levy l'"Itelligence collectif" : c'est un ouvrage en langue française.
J'espère Stacy qu'il n'y a pas un mal entendu cette fois-ci. Amicalement, Rafik.


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2/5/2007 10:43:54 AM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  your explanation is very clear rafik.
I wish to tell a story.but even in my gallery it is unclear,random photos,some match some don't.the light wasn't right on some,although I still at that time had my only chance to capture the shot.not a choice.and not a capture of a sense of time.
but yet in some I have captured a scene,the light,and something that will never be there again.
those are the basic result of the help I recieved here at better photo.kinda before digital and photoshop.
but I had to look and search out galleries that posted settings,so I would gain a clue as to settings.and to sort through those that were bogus.
and eventually I found my light/time.
but collective intelligence?sam


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2/5/2007 8:31:42 PM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   No Sam, all shots are right & very good too and nothing must be touched in your gallery. But if you want to try any conversion to B/W mode and to interpret it within my subject -in this forum ("Time" of course)-, the question will be : can we (betterphoto.com's members)find out the same clues of "time"?
You'll notice (and only you in fact)that the interpretations will differ from what you meant. So if You agree, you can test shooters for the slelcted shot.
If we interpret the same thing as you that will probably mean that we've the same intellgence. Pierre Levy said this, in his french book, "Intelligence collective".
Some don't like to enter in this discussion . I don't know why. If it isn't very important to think twice about this subject, tell me Sam and I invite all shooters too.


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2/6/2007 4:32:17 AM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  i again must say that b/w to me is a dream or vision of a future death,a stripping of color and a sense of a netherworld.a journey into a world of a bleak future.
but I have visited galleries,b/w,that have such a vision of perfection,shadows and light,beautifully captured,at night,i was awestruck.amazed.but it being so real,since there is really no color of night,superb.
and their search is not the sense of time,but a great sense to capture the light and shadows,details.
then the question may be,if it is converted to color,is their more of a sense of time?
I guess I don't believe in the capture of time,only a capture of a time,or that time.but in the same sense,the seed from a flower could be grown again in the following season and with the same light be captured in close to the same or identical light.
so then time is immortal or does history,or time,repeat itself?and only if a photo was taken,did it actually happen,or does it continually happen and just wasn't recorded?
well rafik,i guess I must conclude that a time may be recorded,but time itself is an elusive unattainable goal.that time yes but time itself,no.sam


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2/6/2007 9:14:36 PM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   Yes Sam, you are totaly right when you say "elusive" but sun sunset,flowers can give a few time informations both in colours or in B/W shots. But when we have to compare some shots we can also read that "time" is nearly to sunset for example or at morning or at night etc... and if we try to read flowers without any information about the tree, we can't pricise the season such as a piont of time.
Well Sam, I don't understand why you said "vision of a future death"? If you have any explanation!
I guess that Stacy misunderstood my intent because She has gaving up the discussion!I hope that she isn't angry about my observances to the shots.


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2/7/2007 1:32:07 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  hello rafik,
I have never really enjoyed black and white photography,except like I said,at night.many admire and say it's more pristine.i am not one of those.many convert their images to b/w,and I guess I just don't get the point.
to me b/w strips a scene of color,of course,but also the subtle hues,soft colors and shadows,how the light changes the tone or glow of the color.this evening it may be a soft red but tomorrow evening it may be yellow or a soft gold.so to me it rips the life(color),(vision of a future death),from the scene.
i'm sure stacy is fine and took no offence to your comment.i really think she believes we are just weird for discussing such a remote topic.
be well,sam


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2/7/2007 6:13:16 PM

 
Rafik B.Mohamed Ksontini   Hello Sam,
I agree that B/W photos strip a scene of color and often hide time indices.
Thank you for your patience and help. Rafik


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2/10/2007 11:23:13 AM

 
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