 Marissa D. S |
Lights I would like to purchase my first set of lights. I would like them to be somewhat portable. THe problem is that I don't know wether to get tungsten or strobes. I'm new to the whole lighting game. Most of my portfolio is lanscape, & industrial which requires no lighting. I would like to get into portraits. Some say hot lights & some say strobe. Price is not the issue. I would like to be able to use my lighting for just about everything. HELP ME PLEASE!
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Mark Feldstein |
Greetings Marissa: This is an entirely new subject around here, never been raised before so I'm glad you asked. ;>) So, here's the thumbnail scoop. If you buy lights, buy good ones, not cheap, preferably with a warranty of some kind from a reputable manufacturer. I started in this biz about the time Moses was still wearing short pants. I started with hot lights which were basically hardware store bought reflectors that had a clamp and a light bulb. about 100 watts, 200 on a good day. These days, most of the portraits I shoot are with a single light, usually in a softbox. Every portrait on my website was done with one light. Usually that's just a Bowens 1500 W.S. monolight (or mono bloc light) run at around 1000 w.s. or maybe down at 750. The more power output you have in terms of genuine watt seconds, the more flexible you can be in handling various lighting problems. Light modifiers like softboxes and umbrellas help you control the light to do what you want it to do. Remember, I said SINGLE light. I don't need 2 or 3. I don't need to produce a halo on people like they were done by Michaelangelo. I use a fill reflector panel sometimes to bounce some stray light back into the subject from the strobe. I don't subscribe to the ratio lighting schools of thought although I learned them when I was in school. I also don't like hot lights unless I'm working on a motion picture. They make the subjects uncomfortable if they're in close and when you're working on film, which is what I do about 99% of the time, they color shift as they burn in, which is pretty ok in b&w, but not when you're doing transparency film. Besides, if you start with just one light that has a modeling light, you can practice with it and a fill card of some kind to learn what to do to control it AND what it's going to do when you move it around the subject. :>) Manufacturers? Photoflex has some swell lights coming out soon, this month. My arsenal includes Bowens which are quite powerful, portable and durable but run on AC power; Speedotron, and Norman pack systems. Elinchrom is good. Chimera is great for softboxes, Eclipse makes nice umbrellas (good for light, lousy for rain). Also, as far as shooting anything else goes, like group portraits or things like products or architectural interiors, whether you're working in small or large format, you still need a lot of light. You just can't have enough horsepower so more is better even if you need to crank the output down a bit. Start with that and see if that helps you out. I'm sure Jess and Denyse will be along to bail me out at any moment. I hope.
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Marissa D. S |
thanx for the info and the laughlol I'm going to be doing mostly people and pets. I've been saving so I would like to buy something that I can use for at least the next two years. I really appreciate your time.
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Denyse Clark |
Hey Mark, here I am, right on cue, lol. BOY studio lights is the topic of the month for sure! All of us northerners??? The weather has turned pretty ugly already up here, and we're heading inside for shoots!. Hello Marissa! I just purchased my first set of strobes, and am waiting for them to arrive. We hashed this subject out just a bit ago, here's the tread, you might find it helpful- we get into some specifics! http://www.betterphoto.com/forms/qnaDetail.php?threadID=25035 I went with a set from Photoflex, and although I don't know how practical the portability of it will be, it comes with this nifty travel bag, as IF it will be portable :) I went with strobes that have modeling lights, b/c for me it seemed like the best of both worlds. I knew eventually I'd want to upgrade to strobes if I went with continuous light, so I thought my investment was better just starting off there. The modeling lights are supposed to give you the ability to see what the heck you're doing before you click the shot. The photoflex stuff is a brand new line, and they told me they won't be shipping them until later this month. I can't wait to get them & start playing! I know Jess also bought a set from them. BTW- if you haven't checked out Mark's work, do it. You'll be amazed what he can do with ONE light!!
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W. |
OK, guys, my cue: Hi Marissa, I have yet another approach that's worked for me for years. It's according to the K.I.S.S. principle: it's my 'portable studio'. It basically consists of 3 wirelessly slaved 5600D flashguns on tripods, a 3' and a 4' silver/white reflector. Gives me plenty 'oomph' and endlessly variable possibilities, including faking 'softboxes' and balancing shadows. Easily fits a medium-sized suitcase.
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Marissa D. S |
Thanx guys I really value all your input. I would love it if you e-mailed me Denyse when you get your lights in and let me know if you like them or not.W.S how much did your system cost? Let me know K? Thanx all
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Denyse Clark |
Marissa, Happy to report back when I get my lights!!
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W. |
The 5600D's are Minolta's. There is currently no re-badged Sony-version, as far as I know. So if I had to start now I'd look at the Metz mecablitz 58 AF-1 digital (http://www.metz.de/en/photo_electronics/digital/mecablitz_58_AF-1_digital.647.html) or similarly specced flashguns. One sturdy 15-year old Manfrotto field tripod, 2 lightweight Velbon tripods. The reflectors are the snazzy flip-out type from Lastolite (http://www.lastolite.com/originalreflectors.php). I'm sure you can do the math. D-I-Y relectors work just as well and will cost you only a buck and some elbow grease each but they don't fit a suitcase of course.
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Jessica A. Eiss |
Here I am, a little late than never! I'm with Denyse on this one, and Mark too. It's all his fault we bought Photoflex lights. When you really start comparing true watts/second light capabilities in different manufacturers, you're going to come up with the idea that lighting isn't cheap. Unfortunately, it's true, but you get what you pay for, and I want these lights to last, and to make me some money! At this point, I only bought a single 650ws light and softbox. MArk's gallery is awesome, and if he can get those results with one light, hopefully we can too, with practice! Denyse splurged, and I'm envious! Anyway, the Photoflex sale ends tomorrow, Wed, and I ordered mine from CA, and don't have them available right now. Hey Denyse, they are out already, because Canoga Camera has already had them and sold them, they just don't have them right now. Jess
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Mark Feldstein |
Mark <<<<<<<======== Shopping enabler. You know Marissa, if those pets are rapidly moving, as some are I guess, even kids for that matter, if you want something more along the lines like on-camera flash, kind of like WS is using but more powerful in terms of W.S. output or guide number, let me know. I've got some thoughts along those lines but they ain't got as much horsepower as the Photoflex lights Denyse and Jessica scored or the Bowens lights I use. In a studio environment, btw, when you put a modifier on a light like a large softbox, you appreciably drop the actual light output. So, if you want to maintain the light a comfortable distance from your subject in an indoor situation and at the same time be able to work at a higher f-stop like say f11.0 or depending on where the sweet spot is on your portrait lens even upwards towards f 16 (or just f8.5) and shooting at ISO 100, then you need the extra oomph. It's really handy.
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Jessica A. Eiss |
Mark, you're right! ENABLER,ENABLER!!! Hey guess what, we are getting a bonus this yr, but it's going to be too late for this sale, I need to make a list of what else I want. That light meter may work out yet, but I really want a reflector and stand! I spent all night loading pics to Mpix, and had to do another one all over, when I realized I didn't size one correctly, and the file size was too small. When finished, it ended up being a 40MB file!
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Mark Feldstein |
Thanks kiddo. You're too kind. I'm blushing. :>0)))))))))))
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Jessica A. Eiss |
Mark, can you answer my other question I posed about cropping/sizing for uploading pics. It's another question on this forum.. Thanks
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John H. Siskin |
If price is not an issue you can by Broncolor lights. The finest in Swiss technology. My students have had good experiences with the Alien Bees. Personally I have about 20 lights now, but one I use a lot is the Calumet Travelite. Get at least 600 watt-seconds, and not some strange thing like a 20 watt-second light gives as much light as the other guy’s 300 watt-second light (Alien Bee has some of this language on their site). Watt-seconds are a poor way to discuss strobe power, but at least they have some comparison value. Photoflex makes good products, but I wouldn’t want an early version of a new product. I used to have a Norman P4000D that was a pretty new product when I bought it. Before I got rid of it I had memorized the strobe repairman’s phone number. I have a lot of strobes, and I like it that way. For most studio projects I use 3 lights, for architecture I use many more lights. You can check out my article on one light portraiture at http://www.siskinphoto.com/magazine3a.html. You can check out some of my other articles and stuff on the site www.siskinphoto.com.
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Denyse Clark |
Hmm, well I'm already in line to be a guinea pig on the photoflex! I'm sort of a gambler :) Jess, great news on the bonus, you thought it might be coming. Too bad it wasn't just a bit earlier! I was fortunate that my gramma left me some money for my business, otherwise I'd be out of luck. Reallllly, the lights are out already?? I called photoflex directly and they said nothing would ship to anyone until mid this month. I'll have to call the place I ordered from & get the scoop.
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Mark Feldstein |
Hey Denyse !!! 30 days has September...etc. Today is November 15th. Looks pret-ty mid-month to me. Mark
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Denyse Clark |
Hmm, it IS pretty mid-month now isn't it! I'll have to give them a call to check in when I get a minute. They haven't charged my card yet, good & bad. Good b/c I'm not getting screwed. Bad b/c it means they haven't shipped yet, lol.
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Jessica A. Eiss |
I was going to call photoflex myself soon to find out when they're going to be getting more lights out. I also know they didn't have enough bags for the lights, as that's what the Canoga CS rep said. It would take longer to get if I had ordered the light with a bag. I hope JOhn isn't right about getting into a new line. The store exchanged their last light, replacing a defective one....not a good start?
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Denyse Clark |
Oh sure, I had to go & order the set with the bag!! I suppose some mishaps are to be expected on a new line. I'm just hoping we're some of the lucky ones that skate by without trouble!! Glass is half full over here kids, lol.
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Jessica A. Eiss |
Denysem what part of Western Ny are you in? I just saw you asked someone else that yesterday. I'm in Herkimer Co, CNY.....
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John H. Siskin |
I would really like to have first hand information about the Photoflex strobes. I would also like to hear from someone who has the Interfit units by Patterson. I get a lot of questions about the Interfit units in class and the only reports I have had are from Europe or Australia, where they are very popular. The pricing is much lower than other European strobes. Thanks, John
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Mark Feldstein |
Hi John !!! I've been meaning to get back to you all week. In the meantime, here's a Photoflex light link for ya. http://www.photoflex.com/What_s_New/New_at_Photoflex/StarFlash_Introduction/index.html Photoflex is just south of Santa Cruz in Watsonville and I'd guess when they're not out chasing waves and surfing you can probably reach their sales guru at either their e-mail C'mon up this way, I'll buy you a beer or cup of coffee. Oh Denyse, don't fret about the quality of these things. I'm sure that even as a kind of long shot that something goes wrong with them, Photoflex would be quick to make it right, likely with a new replacement light. Take it light gang.
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Denyse Clark |
No prob, I'm not sweatin it!! I'm sure it will be fine and I just can't wait to get my hands on them! Where have I been, I missed the last several notes here....
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Mark et al, I know where you are. They asked me earlier this year what it would cost to get me to move to Santa Cruz, that was the last I heard from them. I used to use Photoflex soft boxes all the time, but unfortunately they all color shifted too warm to use. I should say that they did work for about 10 years before they shifted color. I still have 60inch Photoflex umbrella I just love. I should also say that strobes use a lot of power, that’s what watt-seconds are. I have had bad equipment, the Norman P4000D, and it is important to be careful with strobes. Given that they do produce terrific light for photography. Everyone who wants to make photos rather than take photos should get strobes. Thanks, John
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Jessica A. Eiss |
Denyse, I'm about 3+hrs east of you. My daughter goes to Herkimer CCC, she's in her second yr, and due to graduate in May. We're only 20 min north of the college. Did you call ohotoflex yet? I'm going to call as soon as I post this. J.
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Jessica A. Eiss |
Well, Canoga Camera has great customer service, but it's all bad news right now. Photoflex orig air shipped an order in from Korea, but the rest are coming in by freight ship, and are due to get there next week, which is a holiday week, then there's customs.... they're looking at early Dec for me, without a bag, and unfortunately for Denyse, mid Dec, because of the bag. I asked for you whether they could just ship the light kit w/o the bag, and can't. It's all packaged together in a "pretty box". BUMMER...mpix's holiday cutoff is the 16th!
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Denyse Clark |
I'm on the phone w/ them now... I called PhotoMark in Arizona who I ordered through, and they said they just checked on it a few days ago with Photoflex & were told they'll have them before the end of November. But they also told me the original ship date was Sept, then it was Oct, now it's end of Nov... so I'm seeing a pattern here, lol. Thanks for checking on your end Jess. We'll keep each other posted!! Hey, my car is Korean and it's 13 years going strong without any problems, let's hope for the same with these lights :) 3 or so hours, not too far! But too far to meet for coffee, darn!!
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Jessica A. Eiss |
goodluck, maybe this spring?
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Mark Feldstein |
I wanted to get some Japanese lights once, but then I found out that I really had to have the yen for them. ;>) M.
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Marissa D. S |
All right I've found a few but I'm soooooooo confused!!! Bear in mind people I know verry little about how strobes work so basically I would like to buy an all inclusive package that is portable and I've decided I must have a soft box. I'm just not sure what to buy and my options are limitless so can anyone narrow down the search a little? Everyone I talk to says everything is great so I'm not sure where to start. I think I need to take a class or something but I'm hands on so I'd need to buy the lights and then educate myself. Wow this stuff is comlicated and I thought that carpentry was complicated. I'm almost tempted to use my construction hallogens!!! Any thoughts??? LOL
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W. |
DO it! USE those construction halogens: 1) it'll work (up to a point), 2) you'll learn a lot about lighting, 3) it's cheap! After a few sessions you'll know much better what you will want from flash/strobe light so you can make an informed decision.
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Marissa, You can learn a lot from construction halogens. In one of the classes I teach here at BetterPhoto I encourage students to start out with clamp lights so that they will get some understanding of what lights are for before they buy. But strobes are the real deal; they give you options and controls that no continuous light will give you. There are many fine products on the market. I think that the steps to making a decision are to make a list of the things you want, decide on a budget, find what fits your budget and find some one who has used that gear. Experience with the product is very important and one of the great things here at BetterPhoto is that you can find someone who owns a particular product. If I was starting out, knowing what I know now, the list would include 3 strobes, at least one with 600 watt-seconds; 3 good light stands; 3 reflectors; 2- 45 inch umbrellas, 1 60 inch umbrella, 3 light panels with 3 white, 1 silver, 1 gold and 1 black covers; Chinese radio sync from EBay. Personally I wouldn’t include either a soft box or a location battery pack. The key is to predict your needs as well as you are able. Now take a deep breath and go for it. John
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Marissa D. S |
ok it works but it's a little raw dont ya think? I think i'd prefer to learn on the tool i'm going to use all the time. When I first learned to use a skillsaw it was old and had to compensate to the left to get a strait cut. THen when I bought my own I was cutting crooked for about a month. See my point? I think it would be bad to teach myself to compensate for bad lights. I just don't want to buy and then discover I need to get extras just to make my system work. Because I don't know enough about what it is exaCTLY I NEED I don't want to make an uneducated buy. Sides const lights are HARSH
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Marissa D. S |
Thanks John I'll keep ya posted! I really appreciate the help. You teach any classes on Adobe Photo??
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Justin G. |
Well if there's any constellation I studied, shopped around, and learned about what I thought I needed/wanted in lights and after months and months of trying to decide, I finally got a 4 light set from Alienbees. After I got everything I played around and didn't like a couple things so I think them back under their 100% satisfaction guarantee and replaced them with other things. Shot for a while and thought it was perfect but now I'm wanting a couple more small additions to it to hopefully get it to about where I want to be. Personally against what John said (not saying he's wrong) but I would LOVE to get the location battery pack. There's places in Indy that I want to shoot people that don't have 110V electricity access and it would be hard to get the light I want without the power to run them. But that's me personally. I'd also like as well to get the wireless triggers. If I'm out on location I don't want to mess with wires connecting my camera and lights. The point to this story is that I thought I knew exactly what I wanted, only to get everything, shoot and practice with it, LEARN from it and decide there's only a couple things I'm lacking. I haven't been following this thread much but I just read your last post, along with John's and it seems like you want to get the perfect, life-long kit right now. Well that's probably not going to happen. Here's what I'd recommend. Depending on how big your budget is, maybe start off with 1 light (2 max) and a stand and a diffuser (either umbrella or softbox) and play around for a few weeks with that. Then once you start to develop your style with artificial light, then add what you think. In a month you could be saying..."man I wish I had another light, with a barndoor attachment." Then with your leftover budget, grab that and practice. Then you might be saying "okay I'm all set except for the wireless, but i'm content with my lights". then you'd just get the wireless (or whatever you decided you want) and your kit should be what you want for now! (until you start making 6 digits and realize that you need 30 lights and 30 assistants, then just get whatever you want!) hope this helps at least a little.
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Justin G. |
marissa, what's your budget? like the MAX amount you would willingly spend on a GOOD light system, if it was good/great quality?
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John H. Siskin |
Buying strobes shouldn’t be as hard a problem as it seems to be. The reason is that most of the gear is good and the differences are minor. If your primary goal is to work on location, with out access to electricity, you should look at Lumadyne or if you want a lower priced option buy used Norman 200B strobes. You may have to go through a few of the 200Bs to get a good system but they are very portable and comparatively cheap. I have them, which is why I wouldn’t be interested in a battery back for a monolight system. If you want flexibility and can get to ac power buy one of the Monolight systems. I usually recommend Calumet Travelites (I own one of these) or the Alien Bees. If you expect to use a lot of lights mostly in the studio c buy Dyna-lite, good price and very light weight. If you want to keep the costs down buy the Norman 900 series equipment on EBay, fantastic deals. Look for the Norman P800D or the P1250D and the LH2000 or the LH2400 heads. I own a pile of this stuff, purchased both used and new. This Norman stuff is probably the best deal in used quality lighting. You don’t have to buy the best stuff. You need to buy good stuff and get started. The reason for using the construction lights is to frustrate you enough to go out and buy lights. Good luck. John Siskin Ps. I was on BetterPhoto Radio today talking about lighting.
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Marissa D. S |
Justin Nice advice.. John S where do I listen?
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Marissa, You can find the link to BetterPhoto radio on the front page of the BetterPhoto site. The show is #0008, I came on in the second segment. Thanks, John
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Marissa D. S |
Hey guys I finally did it I bought Alien Bees!! Wow I feel all tingly!!! I'll let ya know when they get here!!! Thanks for all the great advice guys!! Hey Mark whered ya go???
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John H. Siskin |
Congratulations. Welcome to the place where you make pictures as well as take pictures!! John Siskin
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Jagadeesh Andrew Owens |
I challenge you all to lay down your strobes, halogens, construction lights and all that evilness. The devil is a lie! I rebuke Lucifer's light in the name of Jesus! You see how the devil's craftiness has made this poor woman crazy and she went out and bought some unidentified flying insects!! I'm a follower of Mr. Maisel myself. I am an up and coming natural available light (see - natural - as in God) genius. If God had wanted us to use flash, he would've put a big ol' Bowens up in the sky flashing all the time. What would we have then - the world would look like one continous disco dance floor. Lay down those flashes, I say, and go toward the light....
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Justin G. |
Sipho do you have any lamps or candles in your house? lol. Or how bout a TV? lol... Marissa congrats on your Alienbees! So what all did you get in your kit?
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Mark Feldstein |
Steady Sipho, I think your glue is melting.
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Annette Leibovitz |
I have mono lights for my film Minolta cameras that do not seem to work with my Canon 20D camera. I just bought 2 more Speedlight 580EX flashes to put on the old tripods. The umbrellas should work too with an adaptor. Do you guys think this is a silly set-up to bring on location. I love outside group shots but with the weather changing I will be indoor at different hotels and synagogues. Another photographer gave me this tip to use three of the flashes. Or shoudl I return them and do something elese? I have three parties coming up. Thanks, Annette
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Justin G. |
i don't see why a monolight wouldn't work with a certain camera. what's not working about them? maybe we can dissect the issue with the monolights that you already own and are used to to save you some money. describe the problems with them and maybe we can help.
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Jessica A. Eiss |
MArk et all: I reneged on the Photoflex! I cancelled it yesterday, and went with Photogenic instead. I want some lights, and now if poss. But at least I know they'll be her next week. I have an umbrella and softbox coming. SORRY DENYSE!
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Denyse Clark |
Hey, if I was in a hurry I'd do the same thing!!! I mean yeah I want them, but my studio isn't ready yet anyways, so I'm going to give Photoflex another month, then if they've pushed the delivery out again, I'll bail. Well Jess that's exciting and I can't wait to hear your experiences! I got your email a few days ago but just haven't had time to respond, sorry about that. I'm just now trying to clean up messages before the holiday weekend. Everyone have a good one!!
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Marissa D. S |
I'm with Mark on this one Sipho you are nuts man. Sides did you look at my gallery? Not one of those shots is with any kind of light except what God has already up in the sky. Besides with the cost of electricity these days; even if God did put bowens in the sky who would pay the bill? Justin I got the biggest package they offer.. I figure I should go for broke. I went to Edmonton to see a friend and she had a set and I fell in Love. Jessica sorry to hear about the wait, I'm a little impatient as well but my Bee's only took 7 days to get shipped and I'm in Canada and they came from Tennessee. Almost didn't get them though because my husband didn't figure that the call from US customs was actually for me LOL. Let us know when your light's arrive.
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W. |
If God is for real, he gave us the gift of flashlight. If God is for real, it is arrogant blasphemy to NOT use his gift...
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Annette Leibovitz |
"i don't see why a monolight wouldn't work with a certain camera. what's not working about them?" What I have been told is that the Canon Flash has a pre-flash? I take a picture and it comes out dark with the mono lights. I used them with my Miolta film cameras and they were fine. I tried using 1 Canon 580EX flash on camera and one off camera with an umbrella last night for a group shot. B&H forgot to ship the 2nd flash. The group picture came out great. My uncle is trying to convince me to shoot all raw. I shoot L. I mainly shoot at parties with 150-200 people on average. I think raw will be too overwhelming?
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John H. Siskin |
The Most High, blessed be the Name, did put strobes in the sky. This phenomenon is called lighting. Perhaps some of you have experience with it. Unfortunately I do not have access to the sync cord for this light. I have seen images that lead me to believe that Jim Zuckerman may have access to the sync cord. There are no unnatural photons, once created they all act the same. There are photons that have been created for fruitless missions. The key is to understand how to control the photons not just capture them. Thanks, John Siskin
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