 Ariel Lepor |
HELP! Who to order prints from? What's the best company to buy prints from? I want to start selling professional and high-quality prints and poster prints (and maybe some kinds of "gifts") from my pictures, but it's difficult to find a good company. I've heard Snapfish/Costco, Shutterfly, Mpix.com and Winkflash promoted by different people who've used their services. I've heard, though (from some, not others), that Snapfish doesn't produce high-quality prints. Mpix.com and Shutterfly may be a tad expensive, and I don't know about their quality. Winkflash has an unsatisfactory record with the BBB. Other choices are: Anyone use any of these services (or others) and like it? Anybody know if a company is fairly priced, produces excellent prints, and has stunning customer relations? THANKS! Ariel
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Mark Feldstein |
Try: http://www.gammaphoto.com and http://www.isgophoto.com Their b&w work, resin and fiber based is flawless and their color prints from negs and chromes is perfecto. I've used both of them for years, particularly Gamma when I'm working in Chicago. They're top shelf labs that cater to professionals. You pay for it...but you get what you pay for, yes? Take it light Ari ;>)
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Erin Tyler |
I have to say my favorite is whcc (www.whcc.com) :)
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Ariel Lepor |
That's right, Mark. I'm willing to pay a few extra bucks if the quality is really noticeably better. But I do digital photography, not film. Also, I don't do B&W (I mainly do nature photography). So would those sites still be good? Erin, is whcc reliable and do they make really good quality prints in lots of sizes? Thanks, guys. Still waiting for all the different opinions to pile in, so if you know of a good service, anyone, please mention it here! :)
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Ariel Lepor |
Erin, whcc seems very complicated. I'm not sure if it's what I'm looking for. I can't even figure out how much they charge to make a 5x7 or if they store my images there for future use! Any help there?
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Nobu Nagase |
Last week someone who visited my photo gallery and wanted to buy my landscape photos. (This doesn't happen very often.) He wanted large size prints. Since the photos are of waterfall, I recommended 20x30. I ordered the copies from Mpix.com for $25 each. I don't know if you consider this expensive but considering the quality of prints and shipping & handling, I am totally satisfied with them. I wouldn't cut corners in print cost because it's always covered by the overpriced selling price anyway. The important thing is to deliver quality prints.
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Ariel Lepor |
Yes, you're right, Nobi. If I'm going to sell a 20x30 for $150 or whatever, an extra $15 isn't really much to worry about, if it means they will keep coming back. So, Nobi, is their site easy to use?
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Ariel Lepor |
Also, has anybody used winkflash for a long time without a problem? How's their quality? And does anybody know if SnapFish or Shutterfly is good quality?
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Ariel Lepor |
I'm thinking about using Shutterfly because you can just upload the full picture and you can crop the picture in their web site for different sizes. Does anyone know if Shutterfly is a good company that produces professional prints? (What DPI?) Does any other site have this feature?
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Ariel Lepor |
Oh, also Shutterfly lets you add notes and things with your order. Do others? Hey, what's up with Smugmug? I've heard people like it, but it's not nearly as professional as a site as .ifp3 (though it's cheaper), and I'm not sure on how the photos are priced. Anyone know? What about their print quality and ease of use?
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Jagadeesh Andrew Owens |
You puzzle, me Ariel... Here you are asking about where to send prints but in a thread I just left, you're advising people on which lab to use!! Why would you give advice to people when you yourself don't know?? There's your slap on the wrist...moving on.... I have to agree with Erin, I also use whcc.com, and they are fantastic. Also, simple to use, maybe just seemed difficult at first glance. As I respect Mark F.'s opinion due to all the good stuff he offers, I'll be trying out what he suggested. Mark - are these pro services?
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TERESA J. SWEET |
Hi Ariel, Just my two cents....I've ordered from both Snapfish and Shutterfly (just for candid shots, nothing professional). Their quality is good for smaller prints but anything larger than a 5x7, the paper quality is very thin and they don't use professional paper at all for the larger prints. I wouldn't go with them for clients. JMO though. =)
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Jagadeesh Andrew Owens |
Correction: I will NOT be trying Mark F.'s suggestion, as I couldn't turn that many tricks (I hook at night) to pay for a print....LOL... Dear God, Mark!! You couldn't possibly use that lab for anything other than corporate clients, am I right? I might treat myself a couple of times a year to a few prints for my own home, but sheesh!!! Gamma is expensive!!! Will they send you a test print?
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Ariel Lepor |
Sipho, I gave advice based on information I got from someone else. After I saw in that thread and in others that Snapfish may not be good but others may, I asked the question here, and I pointed the people in the first thread here. Thanks, Teresa.
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Ariel Lepor |
So now I'm thinking: maybe Winkflash? How are they? Maybe mpix.com or whcc.com? Any more information on how simple whcc really is, guys? If I can't find out how to use them, why use them? Any ideas, Teresa or Erin?
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Ariel Lepor |
http://www.betterphoto.com/forms/qnaDetail.php?threadID=25259 John says here that Pro Lab Express is totally great. Anyone else know about them?
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Nobu Nagase |
Arie, Mpix keeps your photos online for 60 days even if no orders are placed. If you continue to place an order within 60 days, the photos will not be removed. On Pro Lab Express's packaging in the thread above, I thought I was reading about mpix shipping & handling. It's very similar.
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Ariel Lepor |
Hmmm... Both are great companies? Both great quality? For Mpix.com, what exactly did you mean. They keep all of your photos if you make at least one order every 60 days? The keep a single photo online if you used it for an order within the last 60 days? Do you get like a personal gallery or something where everything is organized and easy to find?
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Nobu Nagase |
Hi again, Yes, it's a personal gallery of sort. 2. any photos that have not been used for prints for 60 days will be removed. But you will receive a reminder message prior to removal. Sometimes, I upload some photos just to see if they are good enough for various size prints. (they have an edit/crop tool to properly trim for certain dimensions.) These photos stay online for 60 days. You can also invite your friends and family (they also have to register for login, btw.) to view and order prints. If any photos are used for print, they will remain online, and the ones that have not been used for 60 days will be removed.
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Mark Feldstein |
Hey Sipho, yes, I do, for all my work whether it's corporate or for individuals or just my own. I also get a discount on their retail prices but then I've been using Gamma since Mickey Palace founded it in 1968 and Isgo Lepejian's lab for about 15 years. Once again Sipho, you get what you pay for and also, in terms of service, you DON'T get what you pay for, like headaches, lost film or negs or chromes, scratched emulsions, yellowing prints, etc., etc., etc. M.
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Bridgette B |
I use dotphoto.com. They have great prices and the prints are amazing. I have used shutterfly, snapfish, walmart and cvs in the past...but nothing compares to dotphoto!!
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Ariel Lepor |
Really? Can you tell us more about their services?
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Ariel Lepor |
Sorry. [...services], please?
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Ariel Lepor |
I took a quick look at dotphoto. Bridgette, do you have to pay for an account or do they charge per print? Do they have good customer service? What sizes? On site cropping for different size prints? Do people buy your photos from their site? I sell photos on my own site, and am looking for a reliable place to get good prints to send out. Is dotphoto for me? Thanks!
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Erin Tyler |
whcc does not do an on-line gallery or anything like that, but their quality definitely surpasses places like snapfish. It really isn't hard to get set up w/them, the reason for the test prints is to make sure your monitor is callibrated right, so you get the exact colors on your print that you expect. Something you could do, for those places that do test prints (like whcc, I think mpix does too?), is to get your test prints done and compare. As far as pricing goes...whcc has a downloadable "catalog" on their site that tells you all their products and pricing, I think its very reasonable and it includes 2 day shipping. From everything I've hear from my Announcement Business friends, mpix & whcc are very comparable in quality. HTH! :)
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Ariel Lepor |
Okay. I saw the "catalog" and it's not so clear. You pay per print? I think my monitor is pretty close to print color (I tried a few quick online calibration things and didn't have to change anything at all), but I guess I could just adjust the gamma of the different colors if it's exactly the same as the test prints. Thanks, Erin.
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Bridgette B |
You can have free galleries and they have print programs where you can pre-pay for 500 prints (49.00 for 500 4X6 prints). They also have other pre-paid price programs for 5X7, 8X10 etc... the quality of the prints is FANTASTIC! You also have the option of selling your prints to customers through your galleries.
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Ariel Lepor |
Hey, Bridgette. Thanks for the info. So do the pictures come with white boarders? Also, how do you have to size the pictures before uploading? A different crop for each dimension? Do you also have to size it at 300 DPI for each size? (That would take forever on a dial-up connection!) The prices are a bit high (not too high, though), but if it's professional quality, I guess it's worth it. How do they ship the photos? And how is the quality of their different gifts? Also, what do you know about their photo contest? Do they get rights to your image if you win? Also, for selling through them, do you choose the price, and they subtract the printing price? Thanks.
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Ariel Lepor |
Bridgette, I don't want other people to buy prints of my photos just because I use them to print. Is that imposable to work out using dotPhoto?
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Bobbi Agens |
OK, I'm going to be a pain and add a question to this question. I have an odd sized print, (I think it's in my gallery) that I ahve wanted printed for a long time but it's definitly a "custom size". Like not 8X10,4X6, etc. Everyplace that I've looked to get it printed crops some of the photo...what to do about that? heeelp... Thanks!!
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Ariel Lepor |
Maybe ProlabExpress or whcc.com?
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Ariel Lepor |
Well, guys?
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TERESA J. SWEET |
Hi Ariel, I actually just ordered prints from ProLabExpress and I spoke with their customer service, and they were wonderful to speak with. I can update you when I rec'v the prints to let you know the quality and what I think of them, HTH! =)
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Ariel Lepor |
I'm kind of against ProlabExpress because of some of the images they display on their homepage and because I can't figure out how much they charge for prints. I'm kind of leaning towards dotphoto or mpix right now, but I'm still thinking about the others. Any more info on the different services?
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TERESA J. SWEET |
When I first went to ProLabExpress, I was confused too. But after looking at it and researching it, it was easy. MPIX and ProLab's prices are similar. But I remember you saying you were looking for an online lab that had photo gifts and since both dotphoto and mpix both offer that, try them. Order a couple prints from each company and see what you like for quality and service the best. =) Good luck!
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Ariel Lepor |
Thanks, Teresa. "By logging in at http://www.prolabexpress.com you will be able to see just how competitive we are. Don't pay an arm and a leg!" - ProlabExpress. Same prices, huh? Mpix and dotphoto (and, I guess, ProlabExpress)'s prices are higher than many services. I wonder why they say they are so competitive.
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Jerry Frazier |
I will apologize in advance for this comment. So, let me understand. You WANT to sell professional level pic's, but you are talking about places like snapfish? Mark F. gave great advise, and you guys just pooped on it. If you are not going to pick your game up and act like a pro, stop trying to ACT like a pro. That's all I have to say. Your lab is muy importante. There are 2 types of labs that you should consider as a pro: 2. A lab that provides 'service'. The service would NOT be providing a front-end ordering service. That's silly, and a pro lab would not do that, because a pro lab DOES NOT want to deal with Aunt Martha and her one 5x7 print. That's YOUR job as a photographer. There are some steps that people are trying to sidestep, that really can't be side-stepped. First, you have to take the order. That's your job. Then, you have to prep the file. Then, you have to send to your pro lab. Then you get the photo from your pro lab and you inspect it for quality. Then you package it up and send it out to YOUR client. These are the steps that pros take, and side-stepping these are less than professional work. You should host the images, not someone else. You should have a business acct that takes CC charges. Look, this is a business. So, set it up like one. Snapfish is one of the worst quality prints I have ever seen in my life. I would be embarrassed to call myself a professional and use something like snapfish. As a hosting solution, try http://www.pickpic.com/ Both these solutions are very good. Combine this along with a pro lab, and you will be on your way. And, please don't say this is too expensive. I am getting tired of hearing this from new photographers. The business of photography is VERY, VERY, VERY expensive and difficult to maintain. 60% of every dollar is spent on the business before taxes. This is pretty much published and well-known. So, after taxes, you maybe get to keep 25% of the money you take in, if you are lucky and smart. This is why most fail. So, like I said, I apoligize for the harshness of this reply. But, really, don't scoff at pro level stuff. It is your reputation, your images are all you have. Learn about the paper and the chems. Don't just assume that it's all the same. Pro labs make prints that will last a lifetime. Spend the time and energy to build your business using professional quality tools. Trying to side step the process will only result in lowering client expectations. Lowering the value. And, overall, resulting in your failure. You can take this any way you want. Usually in BP.com, proper advise is not taken the right way. Anyway, look at the solutions I provided. Think about what I have said, and if you want to be a Pro, act like one. If nothing else, remember this, ANYONE can buy a Rebel, a kit lens, call themselves a photographer, do location shots, and set themselves up on snapfish or something else. What is going to set you apart? How are you going to be different from every other yay hoo with a camera? Think about it. Being a Pro means you are a Pro, not a consumer with a credit card and more time than sense. Cheers,
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TERESA J. SWEET |
Ariel, Yes, ASIDE from the harshness of Joe's reply, he's 100% correct. =) I haven't researched those companies he's listed for hosting, but take a look at them. Quality is definitely not something to skimp on and although everyone has a budget, there are companies out there that do great quality and are not outrageously priced. I'm sure you know most of this, and just want others opinions on what they do...and that's ok. It's good to get other insights. Just try a few different things and see what works best for you and your company. Good luck =)
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BetterPhoto Member |
amazingly enough Costco has gotten alot better since I discussed with the manager, about how photos were up and down on the quality. Someone must have trained them because I haven't had a problem since and it is so much cheaper then a pro-lab.
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Ariel Lepor |
Hi, Joe. I very much appreciate your lengthly and professional answer. Now, do recognize that some services are for some, and others are for others. Not everybody is looking to look professional while selling their work. (But I am. :) If you have a site you host and sell your images with, I'd love to see it. "First, you have to take the order. That's your job. Then, you have to prep the file. Then, you have to send to your pro lab. Then you get the photo from your pro lab and you inspect it for quality. Then you package it up and send it out to YOUR client.... You should host the images, not someone else. You should have a business acct that takes CC charges." That's exactly what I intend on doing. There are different options for uploading with Snapfish, so maybe the prints you saw from them were uploaded the wrong way. I know a professional who uses Costco and Snapfish and is happy with their quality. Also, as a nameless individual mentioned, Costco (which is a service of Snapfish) may actually produce better quality prints than you think. I'll check out the hosting services you mentioned. I'm using ifp3.com right now, but I'll still check out the others. Also, just because someone gets a good deal on hosting, it doesn't mean that it's not professional or good. Smugmug may be good for many professionals, and Shutterfly may be good for many people who are new to selling. Again, thanks for your reply. Great information.
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Jerry Frazier |
One thing to know, is MPIX is actually Millers, who is a pro lab. They use the same equipment, but supposedly, when it's a Miller's order, the technitians are better trained. When it' sMPIX, they bring in the lackey. I find that hard to believe - how inefficeint is that? - but, that's what I am told. So, MPIX is supposed to be very good because of that. If you can get into Miller's, they are supposed to be a great lab. But, they have requirements and they look at your sales, and if you are not high enough, they will not allow you to work with them. As far as Costco goes, they actually use very good equipment. The problem is usually related to their expertise. However, for proofing, it's fine. I would not use Costco for final prints though. Too many variables. It is NOT a pro lab and they don't have the quality inspection that a pro lab should have. Look, pretty much any lab with a machine can get you prints that look pretty good. But, if you want pro quality, you have to go to a pro lab that understands your needs.
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BetterPhoto Member |
Hi Everyone, Thanks for this informative thread. I have just uploaded some images and ordered prints from Mpix as per many of the suggestions on this thread. I will let you know how they come out once they arrive. I did like how simple the uploading and ordering process was though...excited to see how they turn out. Thanks,
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Ariel Lepor |
Okay now, so what's the price and quality difference between MPIX and Millers?
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Jerry Frazier |
mpix $=cheap, quality=ok millers $=pricey, but not too bad, quality=excellent
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Ariel Lepor |
So: ok=very good and excellent=unbeatable?
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Jerry Frazier |
That's about it. ok=good, not very good excellent=unbeatable.
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Ariel Lepor |
For some reason millerslab.com isn't working.
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Jerry Frazier |
yeah, maybe it's down right now or something.
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Ariel Lepor |
Here's a quote from the front page of mpix.com right now: The order confirmation and customer service emails will be delayed for a few hours due to technical issues. Thank you for your patience. Well, if mpix.com is the same as millerslab, then that might explain it.
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Bobbi Agens |
Yikes....yikes again. I'm JUST a pure, pure hobbiest that wants to improve (and has a LOT of that to do) my own photos just for my own gratification and walls. I'm a raw beginner and not even a very "good" one at that. I would love to get even 1/16 as good as some of the photos I see by some of you on this site, that's why I'm here. Hope my question on odd size above didn't sound too stupid! I've really wanted that printed, and it's not even a "great" photo by any means, but it's special and an odd size. Every place that I've gone (not pro for sure) crops the print. Maybe my local camera shop???
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Ariel Lepor |
Hi Bobbi, MPIX might do custom sizes, also whcc. Check out their sires.
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BetterPhoto Member |
Hi everyone, I just received my images printed from Mpix and I think they look great! Ariel- thanks for the reminder to let you know what I thought. I love the matte finish and the color in the photos. Of course I am just ordering copies of family photos and also flower images, (not pro quality photos). I enjoyed the ease of ordering and the format of the site. I have a couple of photos that I would like to have enlarged, so I will get back to you on how the larger prints look. Thanks so much,
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Patsy L. Bocook |
Mpix.com is an excellent source and offer a wide variety of products. Their service is outstanding, quality is fantastic, and I personally don't think their prices are all that high.
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Ariel Lepor |
Thank you, Heather and Patsy. I'm strongly leaning towards Mipx now.
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