 Kerry Drager |
Update: June Contest Finalists & Winners Hi Everyone, Just a note to share with you from the contest judges: "We are running behind ... so many great images to go through! We plan to announce the June winners by the middle of this coming week (July 26th or 27th), with the finalists announced a day or two before. Thank you for your patience." Also, BetterPhoto has a new contest policy: Beginning with the current contest, winners will be announced by the last day of the month. Thus, for the July contest, the winners will be posted by August 31st. We certainly understand that the wait isn't easy, but we appreciate your patience! Thanks, Kerry Drager
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
Kerry, thanks so much for the status update... saves a group of us from pulling out our hair and/or getting plastered on "just one more glass of wine while I wait tonite" ;) Hopefully the new last-day policy will give you all some breathing room for awhile!
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Kerry Drager |
Hi Christopher, Thanks for the nice comments ... much appreciated! Glad we've saved you from the hair pulling out and/or getting plastered! :-) Kerry
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- Bob Cournoyer Contact Bob Cournoyer Bob Cournoyer's Gallery  |
Well, Adolph Coors will certainly benefit from this....:-) Bob
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Kerry Drager |
Hi Bob, :-) LOL !!! Kerry
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Margie Hurwich |
Well, even with this news, I still enjoyed a couple tonight!!!
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- Sherry Stricklin Boles Contact Sherry Stricklin Boles Sherry Stricklin Boles's Gallery |
Thanks so much for the announcement! You have single-handedly improved world health by preventing many anxiety/stress attacks as we wait...lol! :)
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- Linda D. Lester Contact Linda D. Lester Linda D. Lester's Gallery |
I think it is a great idea to have a set date like the last day of the month so everyone knows when they are coming. Be sure and pick mine, Kerry! LOL!
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Kerry Drager |
Hi Margie, Sherry, and Linda, Thanks so much for checking in ... I enjoyed your comments!! :-)lol Kerry
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Cathy Stancil |
Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated Kerry !
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher  Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I guess that means we can all go out and actually shoot something new instead of playing with the refresh button! Now if I can just remember where I put my car..
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Charlene Bayerle |
Hi Kerry What is the monthly theme going to be for August?
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Barbara Helgason |
Thank you for the update, it is very much appreciated.
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- Shelly A. Van Camp Contact Shelly A. Van Camp Shelly A. Van Camp's Gallery |
Hi Kerry: We all appreciate the update. Thank you! Shelly
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Kerry Drager |
Hi Cathy, Carolyn, Charlene, Barbara and Shelly, You're welcome, and thanks so much for the nice words and the support!! Kerry P.S. to Carolyn: Yes, a great idea :-)... and I hope you find your car! lol P.S. to Charlene ... Hmmmmm, an excellent question! I shall find out, and post soon ... thanks for the reminder!!!
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Kerry Drager |
Hello again Everyone, And here it is ... a verrrrry appropriate August theme (at least for around my home in Northern California, with a high of 110 degrees F. predicted today): Keep Cool Thanks!
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- Bob Cournoyer Contact Bob Cournoyer Bob Cournoyer's Gallery |
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Kerry Drager |
Hi Bob, Yes, I agree: a "good theme" ... and as for your photo: terrific and fun!!!! :-) Thanks for sharing! Kerry
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Diane Dupuis |
Thanks for the update Kerry. I'm sorry to hear it's being postponed another 10 days though. I actually have a photo in the July contest which would be perfect for the August theme but I wouldn't want to re-submit it until I know it doesn't make it in July. We actually had a 10 day opportunity for resubs if we wanted. I know there are way too many entries to handle the contest in a week or two, but I find 4 weeks is a little bit long. (Please don't strike me with the no more finalists for you for speaking out not in favour of our new policy!!!) I still love BP and the people here - I just don't understand why it takes so long. I know there are several stages of the contest - and there are twice as many entries as when I started here a few years ago (when the finalists were announced by the middle of the month)... Anyhow, hope you're all having a good day. D.
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BetterPhotoJim.com - Jim Miotke Contact Jim Miotke Jim Miotke's Gallery |
Diane, you can speak your mind but, in response, let me just ask, Have you ever tried to carefully consider almost 30,000 photos? It takes a lot of time. Sure, we could cut corners by letting a computer program randomly select images to go into the finalists (several other contests do just this, but we would never allow this at BetterPhoto). The other option is to send us lots of money so we can hire more expert photographers to judge :) We also accept Ben & Jerry's :) (Bob, I love your photo.) Thanks for all of your support, BPer's. "Keep cool" and have a great time with our fun contest. I wish you the best and hope each and every one of you WIN!
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
HEY! You could get a lot of us to work for ice cream about now! It's been 108 on my front porch this week! I could even be bribed with CHEAP ice cream!
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BetterPhotoJim.com - Jim Miotke Contact Jim Miotke Jim Miotke's Gallery |
;)
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- Bob Cournoyer Contact Bob Cournoyer Bob Cournoyer's Gallery |
I'm also enjoying/appreciating the personal touch......Kerry/Jim responding! 108? The dog wouldn't be getting anywhere near the icecream at that temperature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did a little simple math...at 25K entries, 30 secs given to each photo, it would take 8.6 days for one person to look at all the photos...not including eating/sleeping/pit stops/technical malfunctions/mouse finger massage/etc....
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Erin Tyler |
ROFL! Hey I'm willing to share my ice cream. The hilarious thing is I don't even remember what I submitted for last month's contest. Hopefully I didn't delete it, lol. Have fun, all!
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Kay Beausoleil |
Bob, having been to many public judgings, I can't imagine anyone, even the BP judges, taking 30 secs a photo. From what I've seen, anything over 5 seconds is long in a first round. Sorting out prizes and mentions in the stuff that survives is longer and gets longer at the top, but I doubt it's anywhere near an average of 30 seconds. Unless Ben and Jerry's has an overriding influence ...
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Diane Dupuis |
Hey Jim, thanks for the response. No I haven't tried judging that many photos. Or any for that matter. But I would hope that with the extra traffic the contest has brought - it has also brought in more revenue - and hopefully one day enough to hire some extra help to do the judging... I know it was great of you guys to offer the free galleries - and I'm sure it's brought a lot more pics to the contest - but as a paying customer - don't kill me for suggesting this - but maybe there should be some kind of limit of entries on the non-paying BPers? Or maybe the galleries could be free for the first month or two or three and then they'd have to buy a premium gallery (which is a steal by the way at the price you're offering...!!!) Anyhow - did someone mention ice cream? Ben and Jerry's half baked perhaps!? YUM!
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BetterPhoto Member |
Thanks Kerry for the update! I'm glad I popped in over here. I was wondering what next month's theme was going to be. I really enjoyed the funny one. I'm fairly new so I didn't even realize this was unusal. Love the dog with the Ben and Jerry's up there!
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
Diane, I think you may be opening a can of worms there ;) The Premium Gallery fee of $22/year, when factored against just the contest entries, works out to about 6 cents per photo entered (assuming you enter daily, as the maximum allowed to everyone.) Not too much more as a paying customer, compared to the 0 cents for a free gallery owner ;) A bigger concern to me would be to continue that line of reasoning about paying customers vs. non-paying; it sets up the status system where paying is better than not paying, so by extension, paying more should be better than paying less. What do you do if you've paid $359 to BP for your own pro site, and you enter the contest regularly? Now, not only are all those free gallery entries inflating the numbers each month, but so are the Premium entries, who of course paid far less than the Pro folks! As a paying customer, the Pro's are the biggest per-customer revenue of them all; could BP also need to limit the Premium entries after awhile? Also, regarding the photo you want to resubmit--I'm sure you realize you still can. You can submit it now (to July) and find out later if June's entry garnered an award. Or hold it to resubmit in August (to give the judges a month inbetween seeing it twice; I've encountered many folks here who suggest that 1 month delay on resubmits.) The worst that happens if you re-enter right now, would be that it shows up in July's entries for judging with a June badge on it already, and therefore you've "wasted" 1 daily July entry slot by repeating a winner. Although there is the chance it could garner a higher-level award on the resubmit... Anyway, all this rambling is just my 2-cents worth, thinking out loud. (Or should I say 6 cents? ;) The extra 10 days wait for me is also mildly maddening (more in an obsessive kind of way than anything serious) but having it spelled out is so much better (in my view) than for BP to keep missing their 21st date, due to the growing volume of entries. I still worry that after awhile, those 10 days may not be enough buffer for the judges... when BP hits 50,000 entries per month, for instance, which would be a bit more than twice the amount in the contest when I joined 10 months ago! (PS--the earlier comment that a judge would need 8.6 days I think is misleading; even more dramatic is assuming you allow a judge the role of a traditional employee, ie, working an average 8 hour day M-F, and if they spent those 8 hours JUST judging non-stop... 30,000 entries, even when accelerated to 15 seconds per image, requires the single judge to spend 15.6 work days getting through them!) Good luck to everyone in the June entries!!
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Dorothy Neumann |
WTG DDK! I don't care how many entries they get, people deserve the results quicker than 30 (or 31 days, depending on the month). You can't persuade me that BP isn't making enough money to hire enough judges. Not with all those people buying premium galleries, websites, courses, books etc. Every other line at BP is a pitch to buy something.
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Diane Dupuis |
Thanks Dorothy. Hey Chris - even before BP offered free galleries - you didn't have to be a paying member to be able to enter the contest. You just had to sign up with an e-mail address and you could enter a pic a day for free. That's always been the way at BP. The main disadvantage was you couldn't find your pic before except in the contest entries. I guess it's just me who figures that having the free galleries it has brought more people to the site (which is good of course) but also brought a lot more pics to the contest - not all good unfortunately - almost doubling the number of entries from 2 years ago.
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BetterPhoto Member |
Thanks a million for the notification, and good luck with such an undertaking. All the best!!)
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Mike Rubin |
So it takes a month, What's the rush. It's not like any of us are leaving anytime soon. I don't know of any other contests which receive a lot of entries that are any quicker. Didn't mama ever tell you to be patient. Now just go out and shoot something. ;)
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Tamera S. Phillips |
As soon as I read this I decided I would take a drive to Napa Valley and take new pictures. Little did I know it would be 106 by noon...Keep Cool is perfect for August. Where in No California are you at Kerry? I just moved to Foster City from the Seattle area where they too are breaking records with near 100 degree heat!
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Kerry Drager |
Hi Everyone, Oh, wow, send some Ben & Jerry's my way! :-) Hi Tamera,
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Kerby Pfrangle |
It has been in the 90's here in Wyoming and I thought that was hot. Kerry I am glad I am not in Sacramento where it 110. That is way to hot. Stay inside where it is cool. Kerby
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Kerry Drager |
Hi Kerby, Nice hearing from you! 90s in WY. is definitely hot too ... but, yes, 110 is waaaaay too toasty. Thanks for the note! Kerry
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
Tamera, the trick to summer heat in Napa is just to pick one winery and stay in their air-conditioned tasting room all day. Granted, they don't like loitering, so you may have to drink a wee bit of wine... I suggest Vine Cliff or Beaulieu! ;)
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Patrycja Adamowska |
It is great I just read this post. :-)Couse I was checking every day to see winners and finalist from last month.(I still will be comming every day just to see new photos entry or read some discusions!).But How great that now there will be some date to announce winners. [pick me!pick me!] hahahaha ;-) stay cool all!
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LoveTheNature.com - VISHVAJIT JUIKAR Contact VISHVAJIT JUIKAR VISHVAJIT JUIKAR's Gallery |
Today is the day to see the list of Finalist? or we need to wait some more ???
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Joyce Baldassarre |
Thank you for letting us know! I appreciate the info and will be patient (chewing acrylic nails). lol
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Sarah J. Thexton |
I read through this and it really makes no difference to me if the results come out on the 21st or the end of the month. I had no idea that there were over 30 000 entries and goodness knows how long they take to go thorugh. I would hate to see the format changed to limit pictures for certain categories or for people who use free space - I must clarify here that I have a paid for gallery - or for a pc to randomly choose finalists. I think we are all here to learn and to enjoy the lovely pictures. Most of us went the "free" route when we first found this site and then upgraded to a Premium Gallery. If there had a been a million restrictions on those free sites maybe some of us would not have stuck around and become regulars.
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Tamera S. Phillips |
Thanks for the suggestion Chris. I did manage to loiter for quite some time at Beringer which is my favorite winery so far. I moved around the grounds a bit, drank some wine and sat in the shade. I even ended up joining the wine club!! I'll have to take a look at the two places you suggested though. I don't think I saw either of them.
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Marie Fields |
Thanks for notifying us of the delay. It's so nice to be informed about what's going on. I am so disappointed to hear that the "turn around" time is going to be even longer. I do realize that there are 30,000 entries to go through but just wish there was some way to get the results out quicker. The contest was so much more fun to participate in a couple of years ago. I guess everything changes and as it gets bigger and bigger if the judging system isn't able to adapt then the time frame will just keep getting prolonged... 30 days for results is a long time and for the images submitted at the beginning of the month, it's almost 2 months before you get any feedback ... Diane, I think your idea sounds like a viable option... at least a springboard for ideas...(and I know what you mean about that 10 day window for resubmitting as well.) There has to be a way to either reduce the number of entries or increase the number of judges! :) How much ice cream should we send? lol!
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Barbara Helgason |
I for one would love to see the number of entries reduced. I enjoy going through the most recent entries and commenting on the ones I like but sometimes the sheer number of snapshots (great for the family album, but not really contest material), are a little overwhelming.
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Sarah J. Thexton |
I know what you mean about snapshots but a lot of us here are beginners and the only way we learn is by entering and comparing in situations like this. Something that may be a snapshot to you might be something I am proud of. I would hate it if BP were to turn into a "professional" site and I would probably stop coming here. This is a site with courses for all levels of photography and surely we should encourage everyone to compete and feel able to show their work. It really is the only way that you learn.
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- Bob Cournoyer Contact Bob Cournoyer Bob Cournoyer's Gallery |
And exactly what is wrong with my family?!?!?!?! It goes back to that clay ashtray I made in grade school...mom said it was the best clay ashtray she'd ever seen....the man at the corner clay ashtray store looked at it and threw it in the trash. I entered "snapshots" when I first started at BP. Then I learned and grew. Now only half my entries are snapshots....I'm still learning...:-) (There's a message in there somewhere, I think) Bob
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Don Williams |
I guess I'm a little more dense than others. What is the difference between 30 days ending on the 22-26th or on the end of the month? Thirty days is thirty days (except for this transition period). I think the key is simply for the managers of the contest to keep its entrant/members updated as to the status of the announcement. Look at the postings of "relief" from that simple act of communication.
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- Bob Cournoyer Contact Bob Cournoyer Bob Cournoyer's Gallery |
Ya beat me by 16 seconds, Sarah....:-) Bob
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Sarah J. Thexton |
Great minds think alike .............. and fools seldom differ?
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Marie Fields |
D. Byron, it's not just 30 days... When I first entered the contest the finalists were announced on the 12th of the month...then it got moved to the 15th, then the 21st, and now the 31st. So initially if I had entered a photo into the contest on the first day of the month it would have been about 42 days until notification if it had made finalist...now that has been extended to 60 days or so... and as the contest continues to get bigger, the time will undoubtedly be extended again. It's just a very long time to wait for feedback is all I'm saying and I just wish it didn't have to be that way. I wouldn't mind even paying an entry fee (I know... everybody wants the contest to stay free) but if it would improve the quality and eliminate the overwhelming burden on the judges then maybe that's what we should do....?
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Sarah J. Thexton |
After reading this I am starting to think that I have come to a site without understanding who it was aimed at. I found this site and came here as it enabled me to learn and to enter a monthly contest for fun. It is cost effective and there seemed to be all levels here. After rereading this thread it appears that this is probably not the case as a number of members are looking for more than that. Is this infact a professional site. If so then it would probably be fair to assume that a payment should be charged for entries and the competition could be run along strict rules. I was under the impression that this was a fun site and that it encouraged people of all levels to pick up their camera and shoot. If I do have it wrong than I am probably in the wrong place for someone like me. Charging for competitions will drive a lot of folk away. I think this site is very lucky to have people who sit down and go through all the entries and waiting 30 days after the close of the contest is a small price to pay. If any of you were to enter a magazine contest you would wait a lot longer than that for results.
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
I know I'll sound like the defender of the status quo, but I don't like the idea of a contest entry fee. I like the "democratic" feel of a free-to-all contest, and I can already picture the discussion threads from unhappy entrants who pay that fee, but then fail to ever receive a Finalist. (For some folks, it would be so easy to complain that your fee should entitle you to SOMETHING someday... vs. taking a hard critical look at what you're submitting. Even as a free contest, there are people here today who finally "give up" on the contest (in anger!) because they've entered many months in a row with nothing awarded to them.) It seems to be a simple matter of resources; from what I've learned, BP's employees are not hired in a solely-judging capacity. All the judges in the process have some other BP job, and perhaps jobs outside of BP, not to mention families, and their own interests in photography. Yet I personally wouldn't want to see any change in the judging process that would reduce the *quality* of judging. (That idea mentioned earlier of a computer program... yuck!) I'd much rather know a person (with a connection to photography) is evaluating my entry. As I'm a fairly constant entrant in the contest, the new timeline doesn't really phase me... D Byron's comment of "30 days is 30 days" is right... before this change, the announcement date was scheduled for the 21st... it is then 30 (or 31) days until the NEXT scheduled "21st announcements"... now, it will be 8/31 for the July winners announcements, and then, 30 days later, 9/30 for the August winners announcement. So the wait between monthly announcements is not changing. Just the "I want to know about last month's results asap" time frame is changing, in terms of the user community. And yes, it could likely need to change again, if the contest keeps this growth rate... however, anything over a month of evaluation time will bring new challenges to the judges, as they would be wrapping up judging on 1 contest, when the period of judging the next contest goes active! If staff cannot be expanded at BP to increase the judging pool, and the alternative is entry limitation of some sort, I would hope to see it take the form of a single limit applicable to all users... such as no contest entry on weekends (or some other 2-day window); at about 800/day, that would cut down 8,000 entries in July!) It would only be a stopgap measure; the Mon-Fri numbers would still grow. But it seems like a fair limitation, applied universally. (But I already know there will be someone who says "I can only access the internet on Saturday afternoons!" So perhaps rephrasing it to 20 entries per month, per user, submitted over a calendar month. ;)
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Diane Dupuis |
Lots of good discussion going on. We've rehashed most of it over and over again in past Q&A threads though. Sarah - as for your comments about beginners and pros (and everything in between) being allowed to compete together - I don't have a problem. Gee we've all been there! But from experience I can tell you that you learn way more from practicing, getting help from other photographers (by asking questions), search out photography chat groups (ask Kara Hendricks - she's the moderator of one that has many BP photographers) and studying about photography, check out some books in your local library - and check out free internet sites (google anything you'd like and you'll find at least 10 sites with great info) and last but not least taking courses. Then go out and practice some more! Entering the contest may get you a few comments on your work - but also from experience most people will give you a "good job" rather than a real critique. OK - gotta go jump in the lake now...
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Sharon Day |
Where have I been??? LOL Christopher said, "Even as a free contest, there are people here today who finally "give up" on the contest (in anger!) because they've entered many months in a row with nothing awarded to them.)" I would hate this site to become as many of our public school systems. If kids can not cut it these days they pass anyway. I think they call it Outcome Based Education??? When I started entering here I had a lot to learn and I've learned a lot, but I didn't learn it by getting mad and quitting. I am sorry if this sounds unkind but not everyone has the talent or skill with a camera to win. Anyone entering for a couple of months and not going anywhere in the contest needs to evaluate why this might be so and maybe take a course or two (or get some books). I don't seem to have what it takes to win in the N&L category with a scenic. Does this make me want to quit? No, it makes me want to try harder and read more books. Sorry, I can't afford a course or I'd try that :o)! I get a little tired of so many really horrid "snapshots" I see entered on a daily basis. Aren't people studying the craft of photography at all??? Sure I have duds and even enter a few :o) but when I put the camera up to my face it's usually on a tripod and I'm doing my best to compose through the viewfinder before releasing the shutter. As for limits...I just have this to say :P! Charging to enter???? Digital Photography Contest charged and they aren't around anymore. I'd like to see BP around for a good long while! Where's the ice cream?????
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- Bob Cournoyer Contact Bob Cournoyer Bob Cournoyer's Gallery |
Ask my dog! I can't find the ice cream anywhere...:-) Bob
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I agree with the staus quo group. We are here to learn, and we do.(Well, most of us do). I'm sure many of you started out as bad as I did and keep improving just by constant exposure to good work. If I want to know how something is done, I ask and usually find out sooner or later. You can learn a lot just by reading the QnA and the articles section regularly. I think a lot of the snapshots get put in the contest just because that's the only place that they will be easy to find. I'm guilty of that myself on occasion. It doesn't do much good to complain about the finals, they get done when they get done, and I doubt if that will change no matter what is said here.
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Sharon Day |
Carolyn, We all enter shots from time to time we simply want to share. I think everyone here knows what a horrid photo looks like and none of yours ever fits that category ;)!
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
Well, they used to, and that's my point!
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Tamera S. Phillips |
If I have a snapshot type photo to share then I do not enter it into the contest. You are right Sharon. Some of us are friends here and we like to share moments in our lives through pictures. I vote for no charging to enter the contest and would suggest patience. We can do it. I know it's hard but in my mind still worth the wait. I'll take Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough~
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Sharon Day |
Carolyn, I see you didn't get mad and quit :o)! They're looking good now! The thing I was trying to point out is it doesn't do anyone any good if photos that do not meet any kind of criteria for excellence are awarded finalist status just so someone doesn't get mad and quit. Sure it's discouraging when you're passed over month after month. I went through that phase as well and who knows, I might again. They can't give finalists to everyone! I bet Kerry is wondering how his announcement lead to "how to fix" the site LOL.
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- Bob Cournoyer Contact Bob Cournoyer Bob Cournoyer's Gallery |
These "go where it may" discussions are fun every off and again. Great for occupying "that time of the month"...:-) I'm off to the store...Kibble Sorbet anyone??
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I didn't quit, but I sure did threaten to a lot! LOL. Bring me some of that Kibble Sorbet! My dog says that sounds pretty darn good about now!
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Kerry Drager |
Hi Sharon, You made a reference to an announcement that I had made ... hmmmmmm, now I'm trying to remember just what that announcement was about :-) Kerry
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
There was an announcement? When?? Hmmm.
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Pamela Shane |
I like the last day of the month idea - I know we all get anxious; but the suspense is part of the contest fun for me. Sometimes I get a little bummed out if I don't get a finalist, but @ 30,000 entries that's the way the cookie crumbles - it makes me even more motivated to improve my work. I have never wanted to quit because I didn't receive a finalist. I enjoy looking at other's photographic art, & learning. I think no matter how long, or what level one is at - we all learn something new everyday. I am just happy to have made friends on this site, who share the same obsessive passion for the art of photography. Best of luck to all contestants! :)
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Sarah J. Thexton |
I think persevering in a contest is a nice goal to set. I dont see myself giving up soon. No one takes up an interest and expects to win or be a finalist in the learning stages. People who are that naive would not stick out the interest anyway.
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Rob Zuidema |
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