 Jerry Frazier |
A Post About Wedding Photography Pricing... I get carried away with the topic of wedding photography. But, just understand that it's because I am absolutely passionate about it. And, there is very strong downward pressure on pricing that is the result of many new entrants. What is frustrating, only from a business perspective, is that it is not sustainable over the long term. But, it will take all those new people a few years to figure it out. In the mean time, they have put a whole bunch of full-timers out of business. It's a very tough situation, and why I have a strong passion for the topic of wedding photography pricing. I just wanted to explain myself, and apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings. I am not here to make you feel bad about what you are doing. I am just trying to provoke a little thought. Sorry, again, if I offended someone with my thoughts.
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Kerry L. Walker |
We appreciate your thoughts.
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Brendan Knell |
Yes, they are very informative thoughts Joe! Please don't stop.
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John P. Sandstedt |
Joe - I think I agreed with you in another thread. Digital hurts the professional photographer.
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Jerry Frazier |
John, It hurts and helps at the same time. I think the myth of digital is about to bust. It might be a few more years, but there are alot of people out there who are starting to "get it" about digital. What I mean is that the avg photographer out there using their P&S is beginning to get over-taken with the burden of archiving, and what to do with all their images. Also, they are beginning to understand that it still requires time and money to dial in a good print. It might be a few more years, but I do feel an awakening occuring overall. Of course, I am merely an observer of the market. I only affect a small corner of my world. I was recently talking to a non-photographer friend who asked me what I do with all my images. I told him that for my family P&S snaps, I simply print what I like, and trash the rest. The ones I keep go on a HD, and I make a back-up Cd. That's it. We almost never go back to get anything. It's right there and then, I decide to print or not, and that's pretty much it. And, that's exactly like it was with film too. He thought that was a pretty good idea because he has 12,000 images, and hasn't printed any of them, and doesn't know what to do. So, I think many are getting overwhelmed and wonder how all this stuff works. He was even asking me how to print. I thought, all those images and you don't know how to print? What the heck are you taking pictures for?
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TERESA J. SWEET |
It's great that you're so passionate about it, Joe, but I agree that one needs to price what others are asking for as well, and compare how well your photography is to them. If anyone advertised $7 or $10K in my area with $100 for a print, they would be put out of business in one hour. But more power to you if you can make that kind of profit! LOL. Everyone has their own opinions on how much to charge for what and they should just go with what they think is best and what their work is worth. They can find out thru trial and error what works and doesn't work for them. =)
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Jerry Frazier |
Brady, That's a very rare talent. It is possible, look at Mike Colon. He's been in business like 5 years and gets around $15 to $25k per wedding. But, he is a rare exception and is a dynamo salesman and has huge cahones to do what he did. Basically, he started at around $1000. He wasn't happy, jumped to $3k. Still wasn't happy. year 3, went to around $8k. Around year 4, 10K. Now, he's where he is. He said it was really an experiment more than anything else. But for every one of those, I can tell you stories of people who get up to the $3k level and the weddings dry up. There is more that comes with the territory than just knowing how to take a nice picture. You have to walk the walk, as well. And, you have to deliver what that level of client expects in terms of service, offerings, treatment, and everything else. I wouldn't suggest doing what Mike did, that's a little nuts, but he explains that he wanted to work less and make more per wedding, and that was why he did it. And, what happened was, he was able to spend more time with each client, pamper them and make them feel special. So, from him, you pick, 8 weddings a month (which is huge, by most standards, more realistic would be 4 to 6) at $3k each, or one or two a month at $15k? But, I do understand your point. I know that everyone has to start somewhere. Teresa, You'd be surprised what people will pay for stuff. I totally disagree that you can't get what I get. I will bet you big money, that there is someone in your area getting huge amounts of money from weddings. If there are people here getting $20k, there are people in nowhere, America, getting $5k and $10k for weddings. I know they are, because I talk to photographers from all over. And, they are getting huge rates in the small little towns all over the place. They are actually way better off than me because my cost of living is huge in comparison.
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Brendan Knell |
"Met a photogrpaher in Utah, yes Utah that makes 6 figures because he is the only good photographer in his town and does many destination weddings." Brady, I believe you. I know of a photographer up in rural Idaho that I'm wanting to apprentice. He does weddings and sports(I think it's like the little league pictures), and he made over a million dollars last year.
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Jerry Frazier |
Who's Joe Bussink? There are many others, as well. The thing about them, is if you ever go talk to them, they are all so different in their approach, that you can't figure out what to do. Each one approaches everything differently. It wasn't until last year when I was like, DUH! That's why. None of them do anything like anyone else, which makes them unique, and desirable. Mike's a cool guy. But, he's a marketing machine. How many photogrpahers hire a publicist? He is kind and humble on the outside, but it's kind of funny to me. Anyone charging $15k for a wedding is not all that humble. Just my opinion.
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Bob Chance |
I can agree on two points. Word-of-mouth and quality of work. I have never had to approach anyone. They always approach me. And they know about me either from word-of-mouth or they have seen my work and like it. And I'm not ashamed to say that I don't charge high dollars. In fact, the reason most people look to the little known guys like me is simply because they really can't afford the 15K photographers. I just shot a wedding in NJ and the brides father, without ever even seeing any of the pictures, paid me an additional $150.00 over and above my price. Be yourself. Be honest. Be realistic in your pricing. And give your clients the best work you are capable of. I've never been the type to pretend to be something I'm not and I don't put on aires to impress people. To me, people who require that from others aren't real people to begin with. I don't try to sell myself because it's not me clients are buying, it's my work. And apparently, that work is selling itself.
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Brendan Knell |
Brady, didn't you admit a while back that you were just a bored kid? And that you were also going to stop bragging?
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Oliver Anderson |
I love reading these posts and learned today that if I'm really good looking,am a smooth talker and study Mike Colon I can make some good wedding bookings.HAHA just had to say it.
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Christopher A. Vedros |
Notice how he completely ignored the fact that he previously admitted making up everything about being a big-time wedding photographer named Craig Paulsen (or any of the other names he used). Some things never change.
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Jerry Frazier |
Threads Gone Wild (TGW). Anyways, it's the whole package. A wedding is emotional. If you can connect with the couple, but especailly the bride, you win. The work comes after that. It's like a job interview. Studies say that managers make up their minds very quickly (within the first 30 seconds of meeting you), whether or not they are going to hire you. Wedding photography is similar. If you understand this concept, your greeting, and your initial approach needs to be 'ON'. After that, you show some work, and let them make up their minds. I have a very high booking ratio, so it means two things. My value is far higher than my price. And, I'm pretty good and making a connection with my couples. I try to come off as just a friend with a camera, not only in the meeting, but in all the shooting and everything. They view me as one of their friends...at least for those who book me. Now, as I age, I'm not sure how that will work out in the long-term, but it's good for now.
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Jerry Frazier |
So now, you are arguing with yourself?
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Brendan Knell |
Joe, he loves to do that. It seems he really is reverting back to some old bad habits.
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Christopher A. Vedros |
"If I told you I would be at the next BP summit, you wouldn't even have a clue by meeting me , until you saw my company tag."
You have absolutely ZERO credibility with me. If you said the world was round, I'd do a Google search to check your facts. You can't convince me that you have this normal "nice guy" personality that clients would trust and like. You're a pathological liar. You don't just turn that off and become normal.
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Brendan Knell |
"How would you forge a certificate?" Recipie for Success:
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Oliver Anderson |
Brendan, you're a genius!!! I told my GF I graduated from Stanford U. so does anyone have a Cert I can borrow for the day, I'll FedEx it back. I tried to create my own and spelled it Stamford University...
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BetterPhoto Member |
Jerry, why would you try to kiss a$$ on a forum, when you don't do it in the real world. Unless its in your favor and you have something to gain.
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Mark Feldstein |
John, I'm wondering, for a guy with so much to say and who's been a member here for so long, where's your gallery here with some of this work you shoot in Miami? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm? I think a lot of us are waiting. M.
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BetterPhoto Member |
Its the American dream Mark, its called freedom. I can do as I please. Since you are a part-time lawyer, correct if I am wrong.
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Jerry Frazier |
Hey John, I'm just trying to help. That's all. Who said anything about kicking ass? That's not what I'm talking about. I'm trying to raise the bar a little. It's a mistake to look at the market, see all these photographers charging $500 with a CD, and mistaken think, that's the market. it's not. That's my main message. You have to really look around at what's going on and talk to real photographers who work everyday. No need to be a starving artist.
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Mark Feldstein |
OMG, another one. Where do they all come from??? M. --------------------------------- Thus begins yet another episode of "Life at the shallow end of the gene pool".
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Jerry Frazier |
...all the lonely people...
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