 Collette Photography |
Should you ever give a client the digital files? Hi, I have a lady who wants to hire me to shoot her wedding, but she wants me to give her the digital negatives, so that she can get them printed herself, she says that she should get the pictures that she paid to have taken, so she wants to know if I could come up with some way to do that. So Originally I had told her that I didnt give people the files to be printed, because if they get them printed badly than that reflects badly on me when they show them to other people, but I have never done a wedding before so this would be my first client which is always the hardest to get, so should I come up with a price for her to pay and give her the files, just so that she will hire me, since its been really hard to get my first client? and if so what do you think I should charge? Thanks for all of your input!
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Jagadeesh Andrew Owens |
My first reaction is "HELL NO!", don't give them to her! My sister paid her photographer (who did film and digital) $6,000 for her wedding pictures, and he kept all the negatives. Have you ever heard of a film photographer giving his clients the negatives along with the shots? I certainly haven't. Explain to her that they are your property and she can have as many prints as she likes, ordered through you, as she would if she had gotten a film photographer to take them. Ask her if she'd schlepp down to Wal-Mart with some 35mm negatives and have them blown up and printed??!!? She wouldn't even know what to DO with medium format negative film!!! Just my humble opinion,
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Jagadeesh Andrew Owens |
In my tirade, I forgot to give my opinion on your other questions. I think, (without having seen your photos) that if you are good enough to get that first client, you're good enough to get one ON YOUR OWN TERMS! If you compromise what your instincts are telling you, and then let your work be compromised by her taking the shots to a Kodak machine in Wal-Mart and showing the results to other people, you will never build a good client base. Again, Most Humbly Submitted,
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
There's nothing wrong with giving the files. But, it would make sense to up the price. You charge for your time, your quality, and for what they get. If they get prints, that should automatically be less than if they get the files, or negatives. The point about if they get printed badly reflecting on who took them. That's not really any more detrimental than if they didn't take care of the photos and people saw them later. She's not going to not look at the files before they get printed. Charge more for the files, keep a copy for yourself as a portfolio.
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Kerry L. Walker |
Sipho, (Anyone who would change their name to Sipho belongs in the nuthouse. If you're interested, the room next to me is vacant. LOL) you would be surprised at how many film photographers are giving away their negatives now. I am not one of them. Collette, I know you are young and trying to get that first client, which isn't easy. However, I don't think you should compromise your principles. Explain to the bride that they aren't her pictures as you own the copyright. They are pictures OF her. In the interest of getting that first job, you might want to make some type of compromise with her and tell her you will just charge her to shoot the wedding and then sell her prints at your cost (including any postage, etc.) That will give you what you want (sole possession of the files) and will give her what she wants (cheap prints). Explain to her that you will be sending the files to a professional lab to get professional results - not Wal-Mart results and that she will be out about the same amount of money but with better results. Let us know what happens - and good luck!
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Autumn Todd |
Hi Collette! I am a fairly new to shooting weddings, and have done five so far. I gave the negatives to couples for the first three, but I'm not outright giving them away anymore. First of all, they WILL take them to Wal-mart. Also, I shot my friends son once and gave her the negatives, she scanned them, then applied all kinds of silly, horrible looking filters and effects to the pictures, which I think reflects badly on me when she runs around showing people ( I don't give negatives to friends anymore). Second, giving them up is eating into further potential profit. You could use some sort of online site/program such as pictage, candid 2000 and post the pics so family can purchase prints. However, since I am a newbie, I need to build a portfolio. I have been offering negatives for an additonal $150.00, but I'm letting the next two weddings have them for $50 as long as I have rights to show the pictures off. I probably won't keeping doing this for long because I'm hopping to eventually benefit from online reprint sales.
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Jerry Frazier |
Printing is so good now, the "my prints are better than yours", is not really valid for 99% of what is done for wedding photos. Also, IT'S A WEDDING. The files have virtually no value once the client is "over it". So, strike while the iron is hot and sell them. Don't "Give Them". One thing your client needs to understand, and I would make this very clear with them, THEY ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE FILES, they are paying a creative fee for you to shoot the wedding. The files have a price. The prints have a price. The album has a price. Everything you do has a price. The fee they are paying is a creative fee, and it allows you to show up and be creative with the wedding. After that, you will present your creation, and then they buy what they like. There are so many variations of how you do this, but to keep it simple, just add a fee for the files and be done with it. A normal fee is anywhere between $500 and around $1,500 for all the wedding files. However, this is for proof quality. That's it. No finished files. What you do is when they come pick up the proof products, you show some finished prints, and post them on-line too. Then hand them a price list for those. They wont be able to duplicate what you can do and will lust for prints like that. No finished files, and the prices for finished prints are thus. Also, I save the proof quality JPEG's at level 10 in PS. They are great to print, but they can't go crazy on them. No RAW files or TIF's or PSD's. No way. If they want RAW files or something, I would probably only sell those to other photographers who knew how to deal with them.
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Robyn Gwilt |
AAAAAArrgh I was about to pose a question when I saw this thread, and my bum is burning!!!! I was asked to do my colleagues daughters wedding, as they were cash strapped, and it gave me experience. I said yes (and my fault, didn't lay out the rules!!!! i.e. my work for free, but PAY for the prints!!!) I spent about 10 nights or more editing and making them look great, did collages the works! My colleague saw them, and said, wow they didn't expect all that work, they just wanted the disc. I explained that it would compromise my name, and I do it properly or not at all. I then gave them a low res disc, with a price list - showing my normal charge for prints, and their special price - which was like less 50% - the silence was deafening!!!! He (the colleague) then explained again they thought they were getting it all for free, and I was so gobsmacked (not usually lost for words). I said I did not want to hand over the disc, as I felt I was entitled to make some money to cover the editing at least - he asked how much and I gave him a price of approximately R500 (divide by 6.5 to get USD - no calculator on hand). The mother in law ordered a miserable 30 prints, which I charged her full price for - its not her bladdy wedding, and I'm not prepared to give her the discount, right? My colleague has now deposited R500 into my account to pay for the disc (which I haven't handed over yet), and I've not heard a peep from the bridal couple - not even a thank you for the 2x 8x12 inch prints I gave them as a gift. I guess its my fault for not setting the rules, I just never thought I'd get taken for granted (by the way, I'd never met the bridal couple till she stepped out the car!!!!!) - so I certainly would NOT be contemplating giving strangers a full coverage, and then hand over a disc, which to me, is probably worth about R5000.00!! I'm so ticked off I'm beyong peed off. I think the idea of a slightly lower res cd is a good idea - then if they want enlargements, I'll just have to say its their lab's fault. So in a nutshell, SET THE RULES right up front - but in my case, no more favours for friends/colleagues/friends of friends or any other lame dogs!!!! THanks for letting me off-load - now I'll go post my other question on PSE 4!!!
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Jerry Frazier |
Rule 1: As Robyn has said, always get your money upfront. ALWAYS. If you decide to sell the files, get the money upfront. If you decide to sell an album or prints, get the money for it upfront. Rule 2: Make it very very very easy for them to give you money if you want sales afterward. Put the photos online and give them easy access and an easy way to buy. Don't make it difficult, they should be able to look and buy right on the same website. Take credit cards. This will be a big money maker for you. I am baffeled why so many photog's in my area don't take CC's. Rule 3: Shoot killer images that compel them to buy. Of course, rule 3 is the tricky part. Rule 4: Shoot the wedding and move on. Always assume you will get nothing from them once you deliver the proofs; because 50% of the time, you wont. Lastly, just understand that no matter what you try to do, people will shoot at the wedding, no matter what your contract says, or how hard you try to stop them. Forget it. Just do your job. Also, people will try to download, scan, or basically steal and rip you off all over the place at every opportunity. This too, you just have to let go. This is why I say sell the CD. It just makes life easy. I would rather they print a JPEG off my CD, than a scan from a 4x6 print. Never tell a client no, just tell them how much. You don't have to work with every client that wants to hire you. If you don't gel, or they disrespect you, you can tell them that you are not a good fit for the job and they may be better suited hiring someone else, then give them some references of others in the area. NEVER LIE TO A CLIENT. Don't tell them you are booked, if you aren't. They have ways of checking on you, and they will. if you don't want to work with them, be upfront and honest. That's it for now.
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Collette Photography |
Thank you everyone for your suggestions and feedback! So if I decide to sell her the proofs on a lower res. CD, does that mean that I shouldnt do any work on them in PS before giving them to her? And should I give her the option of one price if I dont work on them and then another price if I do work on them in PS before giving them to her? I really just want to get my first client so that I will have a wedding portfolio to show other potential clients, so normally I would say NO, but I was thinking of making an exception for this one case. Thanks again for all of your feedback!
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Jerry Frazier |
Colette, My experience: It pisses people off when you offer a proof CD for $500, but a finished product for $2,000. I never get into that. I wouldn't do that. Just offer a CD with no work and that's what they get at $x price. Any finished work goes through you. I made the mistake of offering finished files. But it creates problems that I wont go into here, but has to do with cropping and proper treatment by the lab or client. In short, it is impossible to provide a finished file unless you provide every possible size imaginable, and all they do is pick the size and go have it printed...oh, and you would have to provide that in every possible color combo too, every shade, etc. It's a nightmare. Proof quality files only.
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Collette Photography |
Thanks Joe for the response, I was thinking of just telling her that I would give her the proof cd for like $200 extra, but I feel like if I dont edit them before giving them to her that Im providing poor service. 'Cause she has seen my protfolio online and thats one of the reasons she is hiring me, and all of my pictures online I do some sort of special effects with, so she would know If I didnt do that with hers. So thats where I am having my delema, but I hadnt thought about what you said as far as when she goes to have them printed, that would be a mess with the sizing differences and everything! Should I just tell her that she can have the proofs on CD for the $200, but that they wont be edited or have any special effects aplied to them? Thanks again for all of the help!
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Jagadeesh Andrew Owens |
Collette, What I got from what he said is to sell her the unedited photo disc for set amount of dollars, letting her know they are unedited. Then show her one or two shots that you edited and improved and tell her these effects can be applied to the pictures she chooses for x amount of dollars.... Stay sexy,
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Jerry Frazier |
Yes. Tell her that any of the work, like what's on your website, requires that she orders through you. That's just how it is. But, she can have THE SAME IMAGES YOU USE TO GET TO THAT POINT ON CD, IF SHE WANTS.
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