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Photography Question 
Andrew Laverghetta
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/13/2004
 

Saving and uploading, still a hassel


Well, I've been here for a little while and since I've gotten better at working on the computer with my images, I'm not sure what I should do next. My pics always look really crappy when I upload them and sometimes when I save them too but they look great in photoshop.

An example, check in my gallery. The first two pics of the sun coming trough the treetops. Both look great in photoshop but look really bad after I save them and upload them. Specifically with these images, they became very unsharp. How is it that just saving the photo makes it so unsharp? ...I save it as either a 12quality jpeg or a tiff and I open it up to look at it and it's already unsharp. It stays that way when I get it uploaded into the gallery as well. What's going on? I've got a Dell 15" LCD and when I open up a raw file, I always use Adobe RGB(98). Normally I haven't noticed experiencing this too much but I have no idea why this specific picture is as unsharp as it is. Any help or idea probing would be great. The totally black and white one is 4x6 @ 72dpi and the second one with a warm tone is 8x12 @ 72dpi. Both were saved and uploaded as a tiff. Also, in photoshop the shadows around the bottom half of the image are considerably lighter but when I open the image in image viewer after saving or after I upload it to the net, it's dark and murky.

HELP! haha

-Andrew


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5/29/2006 3:03:17 AM

 
anonymous A.    Adobe does use different display settings and algorithms to Windows and other operating systems, and that may be part of the problem. Your choice of Adobe RGB is the right one for print and geberal colour accuracy, but sRGB is designed for screen display and might serve you better in this case.
Nearly all your images are monochrome (and very nice, too!) but the method of converting to monochrome may be adding to your woes, Andrew: Photoshop will often leave even a simple desaturation or Greyscale Conversion looking sharp and crisp, but the loss of channel information when it is saved and then reopened can result in images that are flat and lacking in sparkle and therefore apparent focus. Since I don't know how you achieve your conversions, I don't know if this is a culprit.
Hope this gets the discussion started...there is so much experience out there that I'm sure you'll find solutions


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5/29/2006 3:29:04 AM

 
Andrew Laverghetta
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/13/2004
  My square images were actual darkroom prints and I didn't do anything really to them because they had been selenium toned so I was wanting them to still have their cool purplue/blue look in the shadows so I didn't mess with desaturating or such on there.

In light shining through the trees...the warm was was desaturated and then I used the photoshop photo filter, warming 81 I think. Like I said, it looks great when I have it open in photoshop but opening it somewhere else and online, it looks kinda muddy and unsharp. Also, you can notice that in the two that I have uploaded, I haven't adjusted the shadows at all in between the two so the smaller one seems to be a lot darker than the warm, larger one.

Is it possible to convert Adobe RGB to sRGB? I shoot raw for most of my stuff so I know that I can convert it there but I don't want to have to go back to the raw file all the time. Why can't some just be saved as it looks! lol

So what I normally do when I'm making black and white in photoshop is desaturate and see how it looks and then adjust from there. Sometimes I'll use channel mixer in monochrome mode but often I get unreal results. I know that certain colors wouldn't show up that dark or light if they had been on black and white film. Then sometimes I'll actually convert to grayscale but not too much. Mostly to save space for certain things. I'll try to see what I can do with a color image in a little bit here, sometime after I post this. Not remembering how the time thing works here, it's 6:04 here EDT I believe.

-Andrew


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5/29/2006 3:05:07 PM

 
Jagadeesh Andrew Owens   Well Andrew, first off, don't spell hassle the way you did because it makes me yearn for the digital anniversary Hasselblad camera that I will never have (cause it retails for $15000)!!! The only thing that I can offer is to change the dpi to 300. I save all my raw files as TIFF and resize to 300 (from 240) and resample it (bicubic). I don't know if this helps, but good luck....


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5/29/2006 4:56:41 PM

 
Andrew Laverghetta
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/13/2004
  Haha, yeah I know what you mean. But, I'm talking about when I save photos for web use, so 72dpi. Thanks though!


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5/29/2006 6:13:45 PM

 
anonymous A.    I feel a bit better now I know you're happy with the square format picrures, because, with one exception, I thought they were the way a monochrome should be.

If I understand the principle properly (and I am happy to be corrected) you need only apply the sRGB standard to your workspace, not to your images. That should allow a consistent appearance between Photoshop and Windows...it won't fix the pictures, but it will let you see them in Photoshop as the will look in Windows, OSX, Explorer, etc.
People have a thousand favourite methods or converting to B&W; the one used by most pros (according to Digital Camera World in a recent edition dvoted to Mono) is to open the Channel Mixer, tick the monochrome box then tweak the red, green and blue channels. You said this gives you unreal results...make sure the total of the 3 channels is close to 100 and you should be fine. If you want images with lighter and more open tones, you might try the Lab Colour method instead: Image/Mode/Lab. This discards the colour information, but retains the Lightness Channel.
Desaturation (Image/Adjustments/Saturation) is much less subtle; it eliminates colour without altering the brightness, so there is no way to differentiate the colour variation and you finish up with flat, lifeless images despite the fact that you still have RGB data.
My very favourite monochromes are not made with any of these techniques: I apply photo effects/infrared (in Paintshop Pro) and adjust the density.
I also like Virtual Photographer, a plug in with many, many monochrome options and controls.


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5/30/2006 2:26:37 AM

 
Jagadeesh Andrew Owens   I think you jinxed me! I just uploaded a tiff @ 300 dpi, and before uploading, it was sharp as hell; now, it's blurry as all get out! What the problem IS?


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5/31/2006 7:48:14 AM

 
anonymous A.    Didn't know I had the POWER. I had a look at the red shoes...real impact, but, as you say, blurred: looks out of focus. Since it isn't, the explanation is not in the original picture or in the upload process (or evryone's pictures would suffer the same way). I checked the image data and the online version is the same as my own photos on BP (24 bit, jpeg, about 500x800 dpi) although your file size is a bit smaller, but nt enough to be the problem.
What progam are you using to edit? A version of Photoshop, wasn't it? Is there something in the Save dialogue that's mucking you up? Seems unlikely (especially since the last was a tiff file) but worth checking carefully. I'll do a bit more research and get back to you.


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5/31/2006 3:44:22 PM

 
Andrew Laverghetta
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/13/2004
  I tried uploading a tiff because I figured it'd be better for keeping info but apparently not. For some reason, I still think it's the way that it's uploaded here. Trying to save space probably? Isn't there a new thing that says you don't have to make your pics a specific size anymore? I guess what I don't get is how so many people can have photos that are so sharp and I know mine look awesome in Photoshop CS but then junk happens and they don't look the same. There's one person specifically that always has sharp pics on here. I don't remember her name but I did what she said, apparently there's something else to it? Oh well. It's really discouraging. How about some help with this official people? haha


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5/31/2006 9:00:44 PM

 
anonymous A.    I'm not getting any joy with this, Andrew: how about sending me a photo at practicaps@optusnet.com.au (like those red shoes) and let me see how it looks on my system... if the same problem occurs, then the problem is in your system, if not it's somewhere on the BP server ~ or so it would seem to me... what do you think?


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6/1/2006 5:59:42 AM

 
Jagadeesh Andrew Owens   I'm thinking that the degradation may have occured when I transferred the file to my thumb drive from my laptop. I looked at the photo on another computer and it's also blurry there, but the original 8 bit tiff file is crystal clear on my laptop. I'll send it to you.


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6/1/2006 9:24:20 AM

 
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