 BetterPhoto Member |
Fluorescent light reflections Hi, new on forum please go easy ! I have started a business selling cars on eBay. I'm renting a warehouse type unit and have tried to build a photo area in one corner. I'm having problems getting decent images, the unit is lit by rows of fluorescent lights (4 rows of 6 lights) and there is only 1 switch so they are all off or all on. When there on I get horrible reflections of them from the car i'm shooting. I'm thinking it would be better to keep them all off and light my car myself but not sure what lighting equipment to buy as i'm quite inexperienced. I'm using a Canon Powershot S70 on a tripod. Any advice would be appreciated on this. Thanks
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Mark Feldstein |
Welllllllll, your first problem is going to likely be color shifting from the flourescent fixtures. You can minimize it (assuming they're true flourescent tubes and not sodium vapor), by getting an FLD or FLB filter to wear on your lens. The rest you can clean up in photoshop but don't ask me how. I'm digitally impaired and shoot all my work on film. Next, the background problem. You'll probably need to rig some muslin or seamless (and avoid shooting the seam). I suggest muslin, probably gray or even black for that matter to emphasize the color and paint jobs. Depth of field will probably be a problem because flourescents don't put out a lot of light. If you're working at f 5.6 or so, and can't seem to go to f-8 or f 11, then you either need to shoot close-ups to eliminate the need for the entire car to be sharp, or perhaps supplement your lighting or shoot with a higher ISO. That in turn can cause digital noise which adversely impacts the quality of your images. OR, increase the horsepower of your lighting. Look at Chimera.com's web site as to how the commercial car studios, like the ones in L.A., rig giant softboxes and strobes overhead and all over a set that has a revolving turntable for the cars. Pricey set-up you betcha. But you can actually rent those spaces on a daily basis which might be worth it to you. Now THAT's the way to shoot cars !!! Yes, you could go with hot lights, but unless you're shooting sectionals, or close-ups, you'd probably cook under the amount of watts you'd need to get bright lighting for depth of field. Plus your utility bill would go through the ceiling, literally, as well. Now, if you happen to live or travel along the Northern Calif. or Central Coast and close to Bixby Bridge in Big Sur or Yankee point (where lots of car shots are made). For that realistic on-location look. Now, I happen to know a photographer who could help you out there.......(I admit to periodically engaging in shameless self-promotion ;>) Take it light. Good luck Ben. This is not an easy task you've chosen.
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Mark Feldstein |
"Turn on the blue light, the man wants a blue pinto !!!!" (Sorry, I couldn't resist)
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Alan N. Marcus |
Since your not making photos to be used to make brochures for the boys in Motown, your countermeasures are easy. Since your images will be viewed mainly on computer screens and occasionally printer with inkjet or the like, I don’t think color balance is all that important. Your problem is unfavorable reflections, so let’s talk about that. For openers, get yourself a Polaroid filter. This accessory is the thing that will give any significant improvement. A polarizing filter is made from the same stuff found in sunglasses of the same name. You can buy one in any camera shop. You may find difficulty mounting same on your camera but with the camera on a tripod you can mount it with tape if you must. If you can’t get one that fits, get one too big and make a mount with cardboard etc. The polarizing filter looks gray but it has a special molecular structure that works on light in a special way. It is used to absorb light reflected from glass and other polished surfaces. It does not work on matte surfaces. You’re in luck because the automobile is polished and then polished more. To work, the filter must be rotated for effect. Stated another way, you mount the filter and look at the image formed on the LCD screen of your Canon. Next, while looking at the screen, you rotate the filter. Amazing and Kowabunga – reflections are minimized and maybe, if you’re lucky, that’s all you need do. You can see this effect with polarized sunglasses, break out one lens, hold in your hand and rotate. Sheets of polarizing filters are cheep from Edmund Scientific. You can use the sunglass lens but it’s not flat enough. It might be impossible to make a studio lighting situation out of a brooder warehouse with strip florescence. You could turn them off and use cheap reflector clip-ons from Ace Hardware or Home Depot. Use ordinary service lamps and practice where to place them for effect. Don’t worry about color, for your needs the auto white balance built into your camera will take care of that. If all else fails, buy white sail cloth and lace it below the fixtures making a tent. Tent photography is a good start when it comes to photographing shiny objects, big or small. If that works, and you like the results, add 50 or 60 watts of standard service light bulbs above the tent for each 4 foot tube. This mix will give you a CI (color index) of about 85-90 which should take the green cast produced by fluorescents way. Check each tube to make sure they are the same. If not replace them. Best for least money will be T12CW (cool white) or SCW deluxe (cool white). Don’t invest in full spectrum tube as the standard bulb mix will do the trick. Good luck Alan Marcus
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anonymous A. |
I'm sorry to contradict, Alan, but polarising filters will not help with metalic surfaces, including painted metals, any more than they can remove the reflections from a mirror. To reduce the reflections in this situation, Ben, you need to put a difuser between the lights and the cars. the simplest way is to rig a piece of light coloured material on scaffolding or similar so the cars are in a sort of open tent. Your Canon will automatically correct for the colour temperature (the colour caste produced by the fluros) but if necessary, you can remove any remaining colour shift easily in any decent image editing software.
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Michael H. Cothran |
Let me offer different advice, being a studio photographer with experience photographing reflective surfaces. Since you are working with shiny surfaces, they will always reflect their surroundings, including your lights. The idea is NOT to eliminate the reflections, but rather to make them attractive, as these reflections are exactly what defines your surface, and its shape. The way to do this is to have a very large transparent light surface (in the neighborhood of 20' x 20') hanging from the ceiling. Buying one (Chimera makes the best in the business) is probably too pricey for your budget. Constructing one would be the way to go, if you're up to it. Imagine a large white sheet, like a shower curtain or bed sheet stretched out 15-20 feet wide, and hanging a couple of feet below your fluorescent lights. This is what you need to accomplish. Look at some commercial pictures of cars shot indoors, and study the reflections. Most professionals use large softboxes that are several feet wide by 2-3 the length hanging from the ceiling, and THEN use smaller, similar softboxes and large reflectors at ground levels to emphasize a certain aspect of the vehicle. I would also strongly suggest looking for an appropriate area OUTSIDE where you could use natural daylight. Again, since you are shooting a highly reflective surface, you'll need a place where nothing too distractive will show up in the sides of the vehicle. Good Luck, Michael H. Cothran
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Alan N. Marcus |
Polarizing filter subdues reflections from materials that are non-conductors of electricity like glass – paint – plastic – water – polished wood . etc. Sunlight and scatter light outside are sorces this filter works best with. I would give one a try - it might not be so hot indoors with fluorescent but .. Alan Marcus Try one – you’ll like it. Alan Marcus
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anonymous A. |
I have no idea where the idea about conducting electricity came from... polarisers work with glass, water and even non-metalic paints: water is a conducter, of course so, is most paint. It works best at 90 degrees to the light source, and it is the highly reflective surfaces that beat it, because the light waves reflecting from them tend to be parallel and in the same plane...they all pass through the filter.
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Alan N. Marcus |
This is a simple request for help from an amateur. All he wants to do is make low resolution images of automobiles for viewing on the small computer screen He’s not making brochures for Motown. As to polarized light reflected from nonconductive surfaces, don’t blame me: To understand, you need to look at the surfaces of objects. Light doesn’t just bounce like a rubber ball. When light strikes a surface its electric filed shakes billion of tiny charged particles (electrons), inside the material. These excited electrons produce new electromagnetic waves. These spanking new waves radiate out and as they do, they interfere with each other. Thus the nature of the material’s conductivity of the material (dielectric or not) determines the nature of the reflected rays. All covered under Brewster’s Angle which in a nutshell states: Also check out – Focal Press “The Focal Encyclopedia of Photography” third addition under Filter Types Polarizer. Glass – water – snow – asphalt – most paints – plastics – rubber etc. are examples of non-conductors. Alan Marcus
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