 Jerald Seely |
Tripods at sea I am serving in the navy and have many chances to get great shots at night but I have one little problem. Long exposures and a rocking ship don't go well together. Is there a tripod that has a movement isolation mount,umm, if you understand what I am getting at? A tripod that will keep the camera steady even if the surface you are shooting from isn't. I will greatly appreciate any help.
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
Sounds like you'd need something gyroscopic, to counter the ship's motion. I've read of gyroscopic stabilizers for camera mounts (such as in-flight photography) but don't have any hands-on experience...
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Jerald Seely |
Thanks! I am currently searching around to see what I can find.
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Linda Buchanan |
Jerald, is there an "official" Navy photographer you can consult with? My son was in the navy and I often checked Navy News, etc. for recent photos. There was always a credit to the Navy photographer. Good luck and thank you for your service.
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Mark Feldstein |
Greetings Jerry: So, you need some help with your sea legs eh?? (Sorry, I just couldn't resist that one). ;>)) Yep, there are gyroscopic stabilizers that Christopher referred to. They mount on your tripod legs in lieu of a standard head and use a portable power pack. As the gyroscope gets up to speed, it's essentially self-leveling and responsive to movement of whatever it's secured to by leveling the camera platform. While they work great, they are very very expensive. So much in fact, that even motion picture production companies don't usually buy them but rent them from various shops around Burbank CA. I know in their entire inventory for example, 20th Century Fox only has one of these gems. In lieu of a stabilizer, there are a couple of other things you could try though . First, you should do alright with a regular tripod without a gyroscope while your ship is in port, right? And, you could always bump your ISO up a bit (or shoot with a faster film something in the 400 range (I recommend Fuji-Press 600) color negative film. You can work at different ISOs on the same roll. Nice stuff with reasonable grain structure for the speed. Of course, a faster lens might be of some value to you as well. Or, assuming you're in the U.S.N., drop an e-mail to the fleet photographer and see if they have one or could get one that they could loan you for a day or two from time to time. Take it light.
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Peter K. Burian |
Some good advice; based on my experience on cruise ships, you want a lens with an Image Stabilizer or Vibration Reduction system. And use high ISO; 400 in daylight and 800 in evening; even higher when necessary. The combination works great except in rough seas. Peter Burian
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Mark Feldstein |
Hey Peter: Would you mind explaining what a lens with an image stabilizer or vibration reduction system is (are) and perhaps how they works? Pricey? Digital only right? And, why use 400 ISO in bright daylight? Just for the sake of a slightly higher shutter speed? I don't think the grain is worth it, although slightly more speed is why I recommended the Fujipress. Course, in a typhoon.... Mark
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Peter K. Burian |
Mark: Sure; it contains a mini gyro that determines the type of camera shake. A microcomputer then shifts lens elements to compensate. Works particularly well with the newest Canon IS and Nikon VR lenses (these have the latest version of the technology.) I don't know how rough the seas are on your ship. If the IS or VR lens is adequate, then you don't need an ISO 400 film. But the faster shutter speed should guarantee sharp photos. I don't find the Fuji 400 color print films grainy at all. Even the ISO 800 films are quite smooth. (I thought you were using a digital camera but the concepts are identical. Higher the ISO, faster the shutter speed, less risk of blur from camera shake or subject movement.) Some IS and VR lenses are not too expensive. Do some searching for LENSES then CANON or NIKON at www.adorama.com Their prices are great and this is a very honest store. Or www.bhphotovideo.com Peter Burian
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Jim Macino |
Hi Jerry, I'm a little slow on the uptake here. I've taken 100's of night shots of AirOps, launches, landings, etc. I used a regular tripod. Are you attempting to take pictures of another ship like during a replenishment or something? You and your tripod are going to have a stable relation with everything on your ship. Can you be a little more specific?
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robert G. Fately |
Jerald, while IS (or VR) is a lovely technology, I don't think it will help with what you originally described. VR is a system where the lens contains micro-motors and optical elements that can move a minute amount in tiny fractions of a second (Peter, there are no gyros involved at all) - it is designed to counter the blur you would get holding a lens at too slow a shutter speed - the motion being due to your own blood pulsing through your veins and other microscopic movements your body makes in a fraction of a second. VR can give you perhaps 3 stops worth of benefit, meaning that if you shoot with a 50MM lens (on a film camera) and normally consider 1/60th second as the slowest speed you could handhold, that you could instead shoot at 1/8th second (3 stops slower) and the VR mechanism will eliminate the blurring due to your body movement. Of course, it won't prevent blur if your subject is moving, but that's another story. Anyway, from your original post, I imagine you're not interested in 1/8 second exposures, but more like a few seconds or more - most folks don't consider 1/8th of a second a "long exposure"). The gyro type stabilizers, which are hideously expensive, could be of some help, though they are primarily made for movie camera use where any blur on individual frames in invisible anyway. That is, I don't know that even these would really help, particularly because I imagine the ship roll to which you refer is more than a few inches. Bottom line, short of shooting from a helicoptor with a stabilizer I don't know if there is a way to get a long exposure shot off a rolling vessel.
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Peter K. Burian |
With all due respect, Bob ... "Gyro sensors detect unwanted vibrations, triggering the corresponding movement of a correcting lens group perpendicular to the optical axis. This alters the light path, returning the image to its correct position on the sensor or film plane."
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Peter K. Burian |
" that will keep the camera steady even if the surface you are shooting from isn't." Jerald: Can you clarify what you are shooting and how? It sounds to me like your concern is about the fact that the ship is vibrating (motors), bobbing and rolling (due to waves) etc. And that you're NOT shooting at very long shutter speeds at all. (You questioned the need for an ISO 400 film.) The latest IS and VR systems are great for *exactly* this type of situation. The new Nikon VR system would be ideal for your purposes: "Nikon’s second generation VR technology offers users two modes to match different shooting conditions. First, the VR Normal Mode, which compensates for camera shake and includes automatic panning detection, as well as automatic tripod detection. And second, *VR Active Mode*, which compensates for pronounced or regular vibration, for example when shooting from a moving vehicle. VR II system offers the equivalent of using a shutter speed 4 stops faster" http://www.dpreview.com/news/0511/05110103nikon18-200vr.php Regards, Peter Burian, Contributor, Shutterbug, Photo Life, Here's How and Australian Photography magazine
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Peter K. Burian |
Jerald: For more specifics on how these systems work, see my 2004 article Image Stabilizers And Anti-Shake Systems - Do They Do The Job, And Are They Worth The Premium Price? Peter K. Burian http://www.shutterbug.net/features/0804sb_imagestab/index.html The newer IS and VR systems are even more effective. Regards, Peter Burian
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Jerald Seely |
I want to thank you all for your input but it seems as if my question has been a little misunderstood. I am trying to take night time shots of say a starry sky for example but when using a standard tripod, long exposures(30 seconds) at a higher ISO setting with an open f-stop the side to side motion of the ship( approx. 3-5 feet sometimes less) this setup will not work. My question was if there has been a counter balanced mount that due to the effects of gravity maintain a stable shot. I hate to miss these night skys away from all of the light pollution.
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Jerald Seely |
Also to inform you I am using a Nikon D50 dSLR camera with various Nikon lenses however no internally stabilized lenses.
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Jim Macino |
Ahaa! So you are looking for a device that takes into consideration, pitch, roll, yaw, and forward speed. A miniature SENS. I think that'll be out of your price range. It would cool if you could somehow mount your camera to something that the GM's or MT's(if they still exist) use for FC. If only roll and pitch were the issue, you could probably jury-rig something together. But the yaw and forward movement will kill the shot. Crank that ISO as high as you can, and take multiple shots, you might get lucky. Congrats on the shellback. Jim
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Mark Feldstein |
Thanks Peter, for the explanation about the lens etc. . a mini gyro inside the lens that controls a microcomputer shifting lens elements. I LOVE it !!! This is why sometimes I feel as though the future has left me standing in a cloud of dust along the infobahn. Thanks again.
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John G. Clifford Jr |
A 30 second exposure on a moving ship at sea, to get a photo of the stars without blurring them, is going to be VERY difficult, if not impossible. A ship at sea has six different types of movement; roll, pitch, yaw, surge, heave, and sway. There is a center for the first three types (roll, pitch, and yaw), because these are movements around an axis of the ship, but the second three (surge, heave, and sway) describe the forward/backward, upward/downward, and side-to-side movement of the ship as caused by waves, and there is no (and can't be) center of movement for these forces. Most ships do have the centers of yaw, pitch, and roll, very closely aligned to one particular spot, and in relatively calm seas, a camera positioned on the outer deck of the ship and vertically aligned with these centers should be the most stable place on the deck. Of course, this spot is usually inaccessible; on a carrier, for instance, it is in the middle of the flight deck and during night ops you are likely to get run over. In short, capturing the full beauty of a moonless, clear sky while far at sea away from air pollution is most likely impossible with affordable current technology. However... I'm sure there are some gyroscopically-stable gun, radar, and/or optical mounts on your ship, and if you could get permission to temporarily mount your camera on one of these and have the mount operational, you could maybe come pretty close to capturing what you want. Good luck, fair seas, and tailwinds.
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