 Craig m. Zacarelli |
film types and slide film Hi, I shoot mostly digital but have a canon Elan 7 so id like to shoot some more film. My question is... I hear allot of people useing Velvia or provia and was wondering if I might try a roll to see what it looks like. so... A). where to get it? im sure Walmart or Walgreens dont sell it. B) Is it 35mm film or slide film (is there a difference and if so, what is it?) c) how do you get it developed? walmart or the local drug store drop off or send it out? Thanks... Im getting tired of useing regular Kodack 35mm color film and was wondering what the big deal was with the fugi stuff. Craig-
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Justin G. |
Velvia is world renowned because of it's excellent contrast and superb sauturation in blues and greens (hey those are common in most landscapes! lol). anyways the big deal is the fact that the colors are just so rich and "poppy". they really jump out at you when you get a perfectly exposed shot. I think wal-mart can send it out. go to wally's world and grab one of those envelopes. call the 800 number and you can ask them if they do e-6. beware: don't ask the lab techs though, they don't usually have a clue. I asked them one time if they sound out 120 film and the lady said that they probably wouldn't because it's all outdated. I said "what?" she said yeah that stuff is really old and probably ruined by now. I told her that I just bought a brick the other day from B&H and doesn't expire for a few years and she said that, that couldn't be, ..i'm confused. well I didn't argue, I didn't want to make a scene.. lol. anyways there's also great places to send out to. I hear The SlidePrinter in Denver is great. That's just hearsay though, I can't tell you off hand. Order off of B&H or Adorama, really good prices. If you're going to mail order, I'd do it soon before tempatures start going up. Who know's how long it'll be in a hot warehouse or in a hot truck. Hope this mumble-jumble helps a bit. But just a side note. The two coolest things in photograhy (in my opinion) is seeing those beautiful slides on a light box (I shoot MF so it's great! I'd love to see a 4x5 Velvia!) and also seeing my print appear from nowhere in the developer when I'm working in the darkroom. It's awesome. So shoot some slides, I'm sure you'll be happy. Oh yeah: bracket.. you have an Elan which I believe works in 1/2 stops (I had a 7E). Shoot at +0.5, 0, -0.5, & -1. Shoot I'll shutup now!
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Bob Cammarata |
Fuji Velvia and Provia are both transparency (slide) films and are available in 35 mm and larger formats. They both require a lab which does E-6 processing...which can be found easily by doing a search for "E-6 processing", along with the name of your town. Both films are sold at most real camera stores...(probably not at Wal-Mart or Rite-Aid), but you can save a lot of money by getting your film in boxes of 20 rolls from places like B&H. Their turn-around time is very quick and you can save almost half the price of bying retail.
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
ahhh, so it is a slide film... does it cost more to develope a roll of slide as opposed to a reguler roll of 35mm 4x6? also, do they have to print it in slides? or is it better because I plan to scan them in my computer? Thanks guys, for clearing that up.. I dont know much in the way of film stuff but wanna learn. So? what about black and white? whats being used for that? Craig-
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Michael H. Cothran |
A. The Fuji films you inquire about are labeled as "professional" film, and need to be refrigerated until use. You can buy this film at most decent camera stores, or from a gazillion mail order camera stores online. Reputable camera stores will have their own refrigerators in-house where all "professional" films are kept until purchase, and reputable mail order companies will advertise that the film is kept refrigerated. This is one reason you won't find these films at a department store. Once you have the film, you will also need to keep it refrigerated until you are ready to use it. B. These films are available in a variety of sizes. Since you have a Canon, you will buy it in 135 size (which is 35mm). "slide film" is a kind of film. "35mm film" is a size. Most professional films come in 36 exposure rolls. I'm not sure if it's available in 20-24 exposure rolls. C. It requires a process called "E6." Take it to a good local photo lab for delivery/pickup, or to the camera store where you purchased it (in which case they will probably mail it out for processing). I would recommend taking it to a local photo lab where you can drop it off, and pick it up. Be sure to ask for "Normal" processing, numbered and plastic mounts. FYI - Velvia comes in ISO 50 and 100. It used to come in a 100F version. If you buy the 100 speed, I recommend that you NOT get the 'F' version. My favorite has always been the ISO 50, but I recently began shooting the 100, since it is actually finer grained than the 50 speed, which has been around for over a decade. Provia only comes in 100 speed (to my knowledge). Provia's colors are more natural, where Velvia is known for its bright color saturation. Either film, in my opinion, is as good as it gets. You will have to calibrate your meter, as slide film such as these do not have nearly the latitude of negative film. Your exposures will have to be extremely accurate, and you can only do this to begin with by bracketing. When you first shoot a couple of rolls, just bracket like crazy. Shoot the same scene @ EI (ISO) 64, 80, 100, 125, and 160 (for 100 speed). Once the film is returned, choose the one image of each set you like the best. Hopefully, they will all be from the same EI setting, or at least the majority of images will be. From then on, this should be your shooting EI (ISO) for this film. Normally, you will want detail in the highlights, and the shadows will darken as they may. When choosing the best exposed image, it is often one a little darker than what you would normally choose. It will contain the most detail for printing, especially in the highlight areas.
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Justin G. |
you asked about black and white. my favorite! (besides velvia but I suck at color for some reason!) lol. sorry. ahh lets see well there's some places that do mail order black and white but most of them are just "general" processing, like Tmax or D76 and you often don't get the creative control that is available with black and white. if you ever want to get into black and white, I suggest you try and find a lab or pro store where maybe you can find a darkroom class. then once you get the basics of reeling your film, developing, watching the time, agitation, fixing, washing, etc. you can then plunge into the vast, never-ending world of film/developer combos to your liking. black and white is so fun in my personal opinion because you are 100% involved in the creative process (yeah yeah you are as well with digital but I like the film better! nah nah.) anyways they also make chromegenic B&W but it's just C41 process and you don't have that control as with true B&W.
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
great advice thanks but I have to say, now im a bit afraid to try this stuff....lol it seems there is allot of room for error. Ill see if I can score a roll or two from the camera store when I can get there (45 mins away!) and try it. thanks for all the great info. Craig-
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Mark Feldstein |
Hey Craig !! I wouldn't get too wrapped up in what Michael mentioned in terms of latitude, refrigeration, processing, etc. The best thing you can do is just get a mit and get in the game. Picking a transparency film is a lot like choosing a camera. Based a lot on personal preference and experience with one or more different brands and types. While it's true you should keep the film refrigerated until a day or so before you plan to shoot it, it still travels quite well and handles reasonable temperature variations although doesn't do well in extreme heat over long periods. B&H sells the gamut of transparency films and also processing mailers which are handy. A&I is/was their processing lab in Los Angeles and they do an excellent job. Problem going to a local camera store is you're not really sure where they're sending their e-6 work until it may be too late. Walmart, k-mart, forget it. Stick with a good lab. You'll be happier with the results, preferably a Kodak Q-Lab for E-6 work. Most larger cities have a Kodak Q-Lab around, at least one. STick with those and your processing results will be consistent. To find other Q-Labs, go to the Kodak site and you'll find them listed under professional services. Exposure? You just gotta play around with xyz emulsions to fine tune them to your camera and shooting technique. Usual rule of thumb is that transparency film gets better color saturation at 1/3 to 1/2 f-stop under where the meter indicates. A circular polarizing filter will help darken a lighter blue sky but not without perhaps blocking up shadow detail in the foreground of a scene. An 81B or warming filter does a lot to enrich color saturation, even with the more heavily saturated films like FUJI. There are lots and lots of e-6 emulsions to chose from these days. My own preference is Kodak Ektachrome EPP or EPR. Why? Cause I know exactly how to shoot it to achieve exactly what I want to get, i.e., what to filter it with, if anything, how to expose it, how to open up the shadows and how to get details in the highlights. It's not magic, it's just that after a long time using the same types of emulsions, you begin to know how the film will record a particular type of scene. Oh, and here's one for ya...try a roll of Kodak Kodachrome 200 or 64, (also available at B&H). Nice stuff. Oh, one last point: Since you seem to plan on scanning your own film, before you send it in for processing, decide if you want the film mounted as individual slides like for projection, or just processed and sleeved in strips of 6 shots each. Sleeved is less to process than mounted...less labor ya know?
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Somebody confused 120 film with 110.
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Justin G. |
That's what I thought but I couldn't remember that it was called 110. Mark, I just mentioned the Wal-mart send out because they send to the Fuji lab, but I do agree with you whole-heartedly on your choices and advice.
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Bob Cammarata |
Mark mentioned Kodachromes (64 and 200). These are both great films. KR-64 of course has finer grain. It's worth mentioning that Kodachrome requires special processing, which only a select few labs are set up for these days. When you take this film to get processed it will likely be sent out to a Kodalux facility. The turn-around time can be a week or more.
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
Thanks Bob...I had forgot about the kodachrome...Didnt even know if it was still around! I think I will try some side films and see what happens, This could turn into quite an Interesting adventure... You all make it seem so fun yet hard at the same time so I will give it a shot and see what happens. One thing im kinda fuzzy on, Michael C mentions to "Bracket like crazy" using "EI (ISO) @ xx xx xx xx xxx... for ISO 100" Whats that mean? I know ISO 100 but what is ment by EI (ISO) 64 80 100 125... Im a little confused by this? are they ISO settings? if so I thought if you used ISO 100 film, thats all you got was 100 speed..i dont think my cam will let me change ISO speeds like on my 350D...at least to ny understanding. Craig-
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Andy |
Hi Craig, Michael just saying that you should bracket 1/3 and 2/3 in each direction (64 = +2/3 EI of ISO100, 80 = +1/3 of 100, 125 = -1/3 of 100 and 160 = -2/3 of 100). He used the ISO settings because your Elan 7's exposure compensation is in 1/2 stop, not 1/3 stop. In fact, you can change the ISO setting on your Elan 7. In the back of the camera, there is the "MENU" button. Keep pressing it until the arrow on the top LCD screen is pointing at "ISO". Then you turn the main dial to change the ISO setting. Of course this is assuming you want to use a fixed aperture and want to do 1/3 stop bracketing with the Elan 7. Bracketing by changing the ISO is cumbersome. You can also use the M mode to lock the aperture and change the exposure time. Better yet (that's what I would do) just bracket 1/2 in each direction with your camera's automatic exposure bracketing. It's right between the 1/3 and 2/3 stops. It saves film and it's hardly distinguish between 1/3, 1/2 or 2/3. Hope this helps.
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Samuel Smith |
i just wanted to mark this thread so I can read it again.the left side of my brain keeps locking up. i'm on dial up and sometimes I think my brain is also. good info,sam
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
I know how you feel Sam, There is quite allot of great infor on this thread and I m thinking of printing some of it out. im glad I asked the original question...lol
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Bob Cammarata |
Craig and Sam, ...Just so you don't get too overwhelmed, you can comfortably shoot most slide films at their recommended ISO rating without worry. As long as you are familiar with the basic principles of metering...and if your film is balanced (or filtered) for the light in which it's being exposed...,the way slide film reacts to light is very similar to how a properly balanced digital sensor records it. The primary difference between the two is that with slide film, you must develope the skills to anticipate how your resulting image will appear after processing or it's money for nothing...and therein lies the challenge. If you were to calculate what each frame of slide film will cost you, it would formulate to something like this: Assuming that you've bought your film in bulk packs of 20 rolls of 36 exposure slide film from a reputable wholesaler, your cost would be around $4.75 per roll (including shipping). Realistically, you can get up to 38 or 39 frames out of a standard roll of 36 exposure film but for the sake of accuracy we'll assume that you've gotten 37, As Craig pointed out,..."This could turn into quite an Interesting adventure... You all make it seem so fun yet hard at the same time..." It can be fun...and it can be challenging but it will also be truly satisfying when you view that perfectly exposed, tack-sharp, fine-grain slide on your light table.
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Samuel Smith |
hey bob, i thank you for the time you spent just responding to our querries. i shoot so many things as an amateur that it took me several years to figure out how to shoot 400 speed film and alter my settings to photograph so many things with acceptable exposure. well they are decent,or even pretty good.i actually compose a scene with 400 speed film.i took so many pics at first,and the result was crap or so so. i go from truck pulls to r/c aircraft to birds to family to landscapes I just had to adjust my settings to compensate for light levels and action. i have viewed the slides of which you speak,awesome. myself?i am ok with what I get.prize winning?ahhh no. but the help i've gotten here has immensley helped me with my settings. knowledge is one of those things I crave.whether I will use it or not. some of the settings I have seen here on pics i've seen are questionably.yet I endure. even after seeing posts here that suggest that you should not set a prime lens to it's max aperture.i do. stupid?ah well. it's just my interpretation of what results I want.but yet I am not wanting to take away from your great info,i may need it some day. now craig may feel a bit different,don't know.it's going from digital to film.and wanting to jump into slide film?whew. thank you so much for your time,sam
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
well I admit, the reason for my question was so Id be able to shoot slide film for ease of scanning in the shots to get them on my computer.. Scanning in a regular photograph just doesnt do it for me but I have seen scanned in slides that to me look to have been shot on a digi cam and downloaded into the computer. Plus the fact that I could always drag out dads old projector and look at them in huge blowups on a screen....lol And then theres the fact that a bunch of slides take up less room than a bunch of 4x6 prints (i hope) Thanks all. Craig-
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