 Mike Carpenter |
Logo Design I am looking for some help on coming up with a logo. Does anyone know a good logo designer or somewhere to get help? I want to make some business cards also but need a logo first. I am just drawing a blank on this.
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Richard Lynch |
Good logo design is a process. I have seen many people claim to be logo designers, but they just slap something pretty together and call it a day. Good logo design is very conscious of the variety of ways a logo will be used (print, web, stitching, etc), and will work with specific limitations to cut the number of colors, provide vector design, and maintain a sensibility about how much things will cost to use. A 6 color logo might be cool, but I wouldn't want to have to pay for that all the time. I know some people starting out who have used this service (http://www.elance.com/). Because many there are starting out, you might get a good price, but be aware of what you want to get in return. All logos are not alike - and some are just beautiful... but poorly executed. Hope that helps! Richard Editor's Note: Don't miss Richard Lynch's exciting new online course for spring: Photoshop Elements Workflow .
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anonymous |
Yadda yadda yadda. Just create your own, it isn't that hard! Now if you were Coke Cola trying to change, then I can understand paying big bucks and getting a pro. But if you have Powerpoint, Photoshop or anything else, you can create your own. Just keep it simple.
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Mike Carpenter |
Natalie, I saw the thread when you asked about the new or old logo. I really like those but I cant figure out hows you make the name at an angle. I have elements 3.0. I've tried to use a picture on the background but it seems the words just kind of get lost in the picture. If I'm using just words I would really like some typeof design like yours not just straight lettering. Mike.
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Justin G. |
Lol Richard, I noticed on another thread or critique or somewhere that you didn't mention your Course and now you mentioned it in the third person! Is it a requirement of an instructor to plug all of their courses? (I've noticed this with other instructors as well). lol i'm just giving you a hard time but am generally curious if its mandated. Have a great day! Justin
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Richard Lynch |
Justin, I edited my post, and the system stuck that in there...I didn't even see it till you pointed it out. Natalie, I happen to work daily with logo issues, and I take it pretty seriously. It might not be hard to create any old logo, but it is extremely difficult to create a multipurpose logo. If you have aspirations for whatever your startup is, buying in to a logo (even if it is free) is a serious consideration. I didn't mean to suggest big $$ were necessary, and I don't believe I have. If someone doesn't know where to start, simply saying "keep it simple" doesn't seem like enough. Richard (in first person)
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Randy Cabell |
Here's a different suggestion. Ask people for help by explaining to them what you want the logo to suggest and asking them to submit any designs they might feel inspired to offer just to help out. You may find someone has an idea that they would simply let you have. You may find that you can take from more than one idea to design something that suits you better. You might simply learn what you don't think works and why. (I myself would enjoy playing with the idea and sending something to you.
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Michael Bailey |
Another excellent resource is the website http://www.bluegelmedia.com. They provide templates for a great number of design elements, and logos can be obtained for a low price. Keep in mind that the low price means they might sell that same logo to another company as well, but you can just use the template as a starting point for your own custom design.
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Karolyn R. Moltzan |
I'd love to give it a shot for you. I won't pretend to be the top graphic artist in the industry or anything like that. But I've just started my own business and would be willing to do this at a very reasonable price to get some exposure and more experience under my belt. My site is www.maxlayne.net or email me at kary@maxlayne.net.
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Roy Blinston |
What a varied array of answers to your questions we have here. Some are helpful and state many truisms (ie: Richard L) and some are a downright insult to the industry and complexities involved in the whole process (ie: most of the others, especially Natalie and Karolyn). Firstly, I am a Graphic Designer of some 30 years experience. Some logos can be done in 20 minutes, and some can take a month and involve lots of meetings and drafts. As for going to a website and downloading something quick, cheap or free (and nasty) ... all I can say is that if this mentality was transferred to Photography all hell would break lose on this forum. In simple terms... overall you get what you pay for (providing you are using a professional who has a reputation to uphold). This doesn't mean to say you are going to pay big bucks. Most professional designers are also experienced people in business and understand you are small, just starting out, and will most often point you in the right direction and come up with something that is reasonable for the money. There are so many shonks out there with no understanding (or appreciation) of what is involved with Logo design. That last comment of... "I'd love to give it a shot for you" made me fall of my chair laughing... and the comment .... "there's nothign to it, do it yourself". What a joke. I could write an essay on this subject but what's the point? Here are some simple tips. 1. Decide on a budget (in your own mind) 2. Go see a pro (not someone doing it for fun) 3. Give him a brief of what you are thinking 4. He will give you a price and tell you what is involved (ie: extra costs if you change your mind, etc or want heaps more drafts). 5. Be certain about what you want..... but don't be stubborn when your designer tells you why certain designs were created in a particular way (ie: there are some real technical issues involved here that he will not have time to explain to you). 6. Keep the meetings short (time is money). In short, the best designs are the simplest designs.... but try telling that to a client who wants 6 little men holding hammers sitting on a tractor in the dessert with a real long business name underneath it. In conclusion: More is less.... and less is more.... but always always always use a pro.
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Michael Bailey |
I suppose I find myself needing to clarify my earlier response. Mike, when you are saying that you are drawing a blank, are you wanting to come up with your own design (and drawing a blank on ideas), or that you are wanting to hire someone and drawing a blank on where to find such a person? If you are looking to design your own, I must reiterate that there are sites out there that can provide a wealth of ideas (like the site I suggested earlier). Stock logo designs CAN be very much like stock photography (or site designs, or resume designs, or anything else that has been templatized). Not every aspect of starting a new business has to be a reinvention of the wheel. There is something supremely efficient about picking up where others have left off to get that solid head start.
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Karolyn R. Moltzan |
Wow, thanks Roy. That's one of the rudest things I've ever seen anyone say on one of these boards.
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Mike Carpenter |
WOW! Thank you everyone for your help. I did not know this would start such a debate. I guess I mean I'm stuck with where to go. I have some ideas and I'm willing to work with someone's idea's. I have played with a couple of sites that you can get cards made on but they just don't give you enough control over what you want. I do believe that sometimes less is more. I want it to look classy but cool. I've tried to put an image on the card and the lettering over it but it seems to busy. I'm thinking that I should find someone local so I can sit and meet with them. So if anyone knows where to go in the Portland, Or area that would be great. Thanks again everyone. Mike.
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Vince Maggio |
Mike first of all there are many opinions on this subject, I feel in my opinion that Roy is right on the mark.I would never put down the opinion of others but his main 6 step idea is really good business sense. In business you are out to become sucessful not just make it. If Paul Rand a true American Legend in Logo and Graphic design read this conversation he would turn in his grave. Paul Rand once said, “Design is the method of putting form and content together. Design, just as art, has multiple definitions; there is no single definition. Design can be art. Design can be aesthetics. Design is so simple, that’s why it is so complicated.” Mike if you are serious of branding yourself truely creating an identity take the lead from other successful companies. Listen to Roy's process and make this truely a business decision. By the way if you do not know Paul Rand by his name you will by his work, he was the creator of logo's like UPS, IBM, Next Computer, Westinghouse just to name a few.
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Leon Walter |
Roy - You may make some very good points...but it is clear that 30 years in the graphic desing industry have done nothing for your people skills. That was incredibly insulting to those people on a personal level. There are definitely better ways to offer good advice. Everyone has to start somewhere. The people you insulted might not have your experience, but that's not to say they can't learn. Certainly Karolyn never suggested anything regarding how she was going to approach this. You know absoultely nothing of her business practices or skill, and very little about her experience. Perhaps one should keep their comments to what they know.
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Justin G. |
While Ron might have been rude on how he stated the point, I believe he is correct. The logo design process isn't just making something cute and going with it. There's all kinds of psychology involved and a logo can really hurt a company. I mean lets say you have two computer companies. One logo is a simple stock graphic of a guy sitting at a computer, and another is a very simple yet very strong corporate logo i'm probably going to investigate the strong one first. if somebody doesn't have the effort to put into their logo, then how do they treat their business. i'm sure ron has great people skills, it's probably just a touchy subject for him. I mean we all need cars but why go with fancy schmancy ford or chevy, just build one yourself! see the point? there's more to logos than a cute design. it's one of the first impressions you give to customers and it has to PERFECTLY represent you.
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Karolyn R. Moltzan |
Justin, I agree with you. A logo is a very important aspect to a business. A well designed logo can make all the difference, because first impressions are everything when it comes to choosing a business or service. For everyone, when I said I am starting my own business, that's what I mean - I just started my own company, not that I just decided "well, I have a computer, I'll design logs now". I worked as a graphic designer for 3 years before I chose to stay home with my children. I have continued to do design at home, and recently decided to make it a more serious venture. I never meant to make light of the design industry or to make it seem as though any Joe Schmoe can do it. But you have to start somewhere. You don't break into the business with 30 years experience. Mike C., I hope you do whatever works for you and I apologize that this discussion thread took the turn that it did. As with ANY business investment a plan such as Roy suggested is a good one. But this is a personal thing and you need to find what works for you and someone who will work with you. Good Luck.
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Raymond F. Bohac Jr |
Mike C., Mike, after reading all of the responses I believe you have been given good advice. I might like to suggest that you have one side of your card printed with your contact information and the other with some examples of your work. I believe that will give you the best of both worlds. Your work will speak volumes of your skills.
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Randy Cabell |
What bullshit it is to say that you start making a logo by planning a budget. Design is not rocket science. It can come simply from the existence of pure native talent and a good eye. Those who don't have talent can also have a good eye for the works of others. A generous spirited suggestion with good will and a belief in the creativity and intelligence of other people was met with a pompous, arrogant, nasty and self-serving response. Do you feel like a big man now that you've dissed everybody else who doesn't have your superior years of training? Do you believe that big dollars mean big talent? Wake up.
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Lorraine Smith |
Mike, This is a shocking discussion over a rather innocent querry. www.bamagazine.com (Before &After - How to design cool stuff.) You must go on-line and download their free ideas for just about any graphic design you need - logos included. Enough said.
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Kath Dewsbery |
Look, I haven't read all the responses, because I have won awards on design. I've created many logos for free with the business I had. Talk to me if you are still having probs. I can design a logo for you at minimal cost. We just need to talk, so I can see what you require. Contact me at dunbar@aapt.net.au
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Kath Dewsbery |
Look, I haven't read all the responses, because I have won awards on design. I've created many logos for free with the business I had. Talk to me if you are still having probs. I can design a logo for you at minimal cost. We just need to talk, so I can see what you require. Contact me at dunbar@aapt.net.au
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
SHONKS!
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Richard Lynch |
I hope I can try and douse the flaming here... The original post was innocent enough, asking about how to go about designing a logo. I jumped in because no one had said much, and because I have some experience in working with branding...which I have seen from individuals, to mom 'n pop shops, to large corporations. If someone is serious about starting a business and wants it to succeed, there are steps in the process usually following a business plan. Business planning requires budgeting, professionalism, and having targets and goals. This is not to say someone can't start up a business without a plan, but from my experience, I wouldn't recommend it. If someone has gone to the trouble to plan, and has done that because they want to appear professional and worth what they charge, they will likely want a decent look/presentation, and along with that goes their logo. While anyone can slap together a logo, whether it fits the purpose or not may be beside the point...I approached this as if the original poster was serious about having a successful business with a plan. From that vantage, if one wants to proceed knowing nothing about design and potential pitfalls, they can, but eventually they will see the problems. If by chance they luck out and design the perfect logo...it is luck. If they don't, it can cost many hundreds of dollars in increased production costs...even for a small business. Lets all step back from this for a moment. The idea here is to help, and perhaps the most important question was never answered: What is the logo for? If the logo is just for fun, a simple home business where someone wants to sell preserves at a local flea market once a year, with no great aspirations, any old design might do, created in anything from Word to the Adobe suite. But if the aspirations are to develop a recognized brand, the elements of that branding need to be taken more seriously, and should be more seriously considered. Mike C., What were your plans for the logo and your business? What programs do you have on hand? What type of business is it? Are you looking for professional design, or do you think you can do it yourself given a little direction?
Richard
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Mike Carpenter |
I would have to agree with everyone on a certain level. I do see the points of everyone. My goal is to create a logo to have on a business card for my photography business. NOW, I have just begun to get the business started and I do have some plans and budgets in mind but I am open to different things. I do want it to look professional and I do want my business to succeed. I am very cautious about the money I spend and I take things slow when it comes to trying to grow. I just thought I could be pointed in the right direction for some simple help to design a card. I hate to see people get all worked up over an easy question. Remember this is a fun thing everybody. Mike.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Try this guy in California. Craig Paulsen.
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Alexis |
Dear Mike, I am a graphic artist of 10+ years, and have paid thousands of $$ for my education. Please do not go to one of these online places we call them in the industry "logo mills" and they exploit many many designers and pay them next to nothing for their craftmanship. I also have a client that paid $500 for their logo through one of these places and a couple of years later he contacted the company to get a copy of his logo and lo and behold they were no longer in business. I am a member of the Graphic Artist Guild and also a residing board member on our local chapter. I would suggest that you contact your local Graphic Artist Guild and there is one located in Portland and go that route www.gag.org You will be able to work with a real live person, which is really important people put more thought into the color of the car that they are driving than their business logo!! Many thanks Alexis
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Josh |
Hello Mike, Not sure if anybody has mentioned this or not (too much other stuff going on with this thread) but I would recommend that you have the logo done in black and white first then add color. The thinking behind this is that if the logo doesn't work in B&W it won't matter how much color you throw at it, it still won't work. What I mean by "work" is that a logo must useable for EVERY occassion. It needs to be able to go on a coffee cup, letter head, the side of a bus or in a newspaper... wherever. Some logos that are done only in color do not convert nicely to B&W. (also, B&W is not grayscale, it's just that, Black and White, nothing inbetween) Also, make sure that the logo will reproduce nicely at anysize. Look at the logo when it's printed the size of a postage stamp and when it's printed full size on a piece of paper. Good luck
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Richard Lynch |
Josh said: "What I mean by "work" is that a logo must useable for EVERY occassion. It needs to be able to go on a coffee cup, letter head, the side of a bus or in a newspaper... wherever." That is what I meant by 'multipurpose'. Good design will allow that. Good design will also work in one color (black), and perhaps in 2 or 3 color so you have options (working with imprint items). Some of these things are learned (sometimes the hard way) and may not be a concern for people who don't have much design experience. Richard
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Kathy F. Nash |
I am amused at how such an innocent question has created this long of a thread! I am an owner of a 9 hole golf course, as well as have my own custom art and photography business. I was also in the office products industry for 14 years. In the latter case, I set-up many business cards and letter-head for customers. The companies we dealt with had a large variety of logos, and we would occassionally design one ourselves. Everyone had a valid point - to go to college to earn a degree as a graphic designer would compel that person to design a logo for you. After all, that is what they went to college for! As for the golf course, known as Indian Creek, we used to have a profile of an Indian in full Head-dress, ihn 5 colors. It was extremely expensive to reproduce, and not all machines could embroider or engrave such a busy patter. Each logo required over 5,000 stitches. We abandoned the indian for a wavy line - a simple zigzag that resembles a creek. It takes up less room, is one color, and our name Indian Creek GC appears over it. It is used on all our visors, towels, cart tags, etc. As for my little business, custom art and photography, I tried the graphic artist way, and paid dearly for it, yet was not happy with the design AT ALL, and abandoned it for a simple photograph of a painting I had done. Voila! I was able to submit a CD to the printer, and all he did was add the type face to the card. Now anyone can see the quality of work I do as both a photographer and an artist. Keep it simple!
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Kathy F. Nash |
I am amused at how such an innocent question has created this long of a thread! I am an owner of a 9 hole golf course, as well as have my own custom art and photography business. I was also in the office products industry for 14 years. In the latter case, I set-up many business cards and letter-head for customers. The companies we dealt with had a large variety of logos, and we would occassionally design one ourselves. Everyone had a valid point - to go to college to earn a degree as a graphic designer would compel that person to design a logo for you. After all, that is what they went to college for! As for the golf course, known as Indian Creek, we used to have a profile of an Indian in full Head-dress, in 5 colors. It was extremely expensive to reproduce, and not all machines could embroider or engrave such a busy pattern. Each logo required over 5,000 stitches. We abandoned the indian for a wavy line - a simple zigzag that resembles a creek. It takes up less room, is one color, and our name Indian Creek GC appears over it. It is used on all our visors, towels, cart tags, etc. As for my little business, custom art and photography, I tried the graphic artist way, and paid dearly for it, yet was not happy with the design AT ALL, and abandoned it for a simple photograph of a painting I had done. Voila! I was able to submit a CD to the printer, and all he did was add the type face to the card. Now anyone can see the quality of work I do as both a photographer and an artist. Keep it simple! I find that the most effective logo is concise, and represents the company. A wedding photographer might use a wedding ring. Another way to go is just initials, artfully placed. A stock photo of a camera with your initials in it. Good luck!
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