BetterPhoto Q&A
Category: New Questions

Photography Question 
Hank M
 

Plagiarism


I am new to BP and after looking over the many great galleries and always searching the web for photgraphic sites, I have come across some possible plagiarism on BP, I have notified the BP staff in hopes of uncovering this/these people but have not heard back from any staff member and I am just wondering how the membership feels about this. I would hate to see a person win anything by using anothers picture.


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2/21/2006 5:19:26 AM

 
Carolyn  M. Fletcher
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/6/2001
Contact Carolyn
Carolyn 's Gallery
PickYourShots.com
  Sometimes it takes them a couple days to get back to you, but I'm sure they will.


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2/21/2006 6:40:51 AM

 
Hank M   Just Impatient I guess


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2/21/2006 7:03:57 AM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  ought to tell the person who's photo is being copyright infringed upon. If that's the case. This very similar photos you talking about, or outright using somebody else's photo?


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2/21/2006 8:30:42 AM

 
Hank M   OUTRIGHT use of someone elses picture right down to the pose. No mistaking it.
I have sent the BP staff all the information.


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2/21/2006 9:14:33 AM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  Which photo is it?


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2/21/2006 9:17:18 AM

 
Justin G.
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/13/2004
  If someone is using someone's pose I don't think it's quite plagarism. Are they using the ACTUAL picture or the idea? I don't think you can copyright an idea or pose in photography. I mean portrait photography has been around for a couple hundred years (correct me if i'm wrong I HATE history so I couldn't even tell you when the first cameras were being used). anyways think of how many poses there could possibly be. I mean there's no way to be 100% original.

I personally am inspired by Michael Tarasoff and frequently try to copy a photograph or pose but not to try and outdo him (I don't think I ever will!) but I personally just do it for practice. I'm trying to mimic his posing and lighting so that in the future I have the experiences to understand all aspects of the light. IS this kinda what you mean or are you talking about copying and pasting?


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2/21/2006 9:29:45 AM

 
Hank M   I wouldn't say a word if it was trying to copy but I believe it is the actual pictures.
The old copy and paste trick, easier to use someone elses then go get your own.
I search the web all the time looking for an idea.
But even on the frappr map I believed he used a fake picture, the one he used looked like porn star Kris Knight.
I am waiting to see what the staff thinks, I have sent them all kinds of information and the web pages.


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2/21/2006 9:37:00 AM

 
Christopher A. Vedros
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/14/2005
  Okay, Hank, you've hooked us. Are you just going to leave us hanging on the edge of our keyboards? Who doesn't love a good scandal?

I think if you have concerns about someone, you should go ahead and say who it is. If they are legit, they can defend themselves.

Justin - I've heard opinions that there are copyright issues when copying someone's idea for a photo. For example, setting up a shot of the same scene in the same way, etc.

I think there must be a great deal of "gray area" around this, though, especially with portraits. How many times have we seen the "baby-in-a-bucket" photo? (baby, washtub, rubber ducky, etc.) Who can claim that as an original idea?

Chris


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2/21/2006 10:58:30 AM

 
Justin G.
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/13/2004
  Yeah Chris that's exactly what I'm thinking. Or your typical Sears/Walmart Portrait. Dad in back tall, mom to the left and two kids all making a diamond figure. That's probably the most "basic" pose used so does walmart have the patent? lol. but then again if I see a picture of hmm downtown Indy where I'm from and I like it and I try to go do the same exact thing I could see the controversy. But the will never be identical so I also agree on your gray area. Example: I shot this shot on a bridge over the canal in indy. it's my favorite cityscape shot. one day i'm looking around being bored, come across John Lind's website. He's got almost the exact same shot..copyright? nah pure coincidence. I mean if it ended up in court, somebody could just say nope I didn't steal it, see that pebble, that's missing on his. just a thought.


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2/21/2006 11:07:19 AM

 
Hank M   I do not want to post to much because being new, I want to see how the staff handles stuff but as I see they have not contacted me after many emails.
So is BP for the people to copy and paste?


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2/21/2006 11:07:40 AM

 
Justin G.
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/13/2004
  No they want everyone promoting their own work, not stealing others. I personally frequently post sample photos from other people but I dont' copy/paste them and I clearly label the intention and who's work it is and not my own. but they are purely samples of a point somebody asked about. I haven't heard any stink from it and would quit if I was asked but I would feel good if someone used my work as a sample so that's how I approach the situation. but also the images are only links to the artist's site.

Here's a thread where I did that. Lemme know what your honest opinions are, do you think its bad? just curious.


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2/21/2006 11:14:18 AM

 

BetterPhoto Member
  Copyright and patent laws are hard to follow. For instance, Harley Davidson sued Kawasaki over the sound of the exhaust on a Kawasaki motorcycle. The US supreme
court said that you can NOT patent a sound. Harley Davidson then got a patent on the 45 degree Vtwin engine, thus making it impossible for any other motorcycle manufacturer to achieve the exhauts sound of the Harley.
Perfume is another example. You can copyright a name, but not a smell. This is why you can buy the same perfume for your wife under seven different names.
You can copyright a photograph, but I don't think you can copyright the pose.


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2/21/2006 11:14:19 AM

 
Hank M   Something is being done, I just looked and some of his pictures have been pulled, I hope the staff sends him/them an email advising them the purpose of this site.


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2/21/2006 11:17:01 AM

 
Christopher A. Vedros
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/14/2005
  Hank,
By not telling us who the person you suspect is, you haven't helped any of us. This may be someone whom we thought we could trust, but if the photos in question are just removed, we won't be any better off. We will have no way of preventing this in the future.


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2/21/2006 12:04:13 PM

 
Hank M   Matt Nathaniels http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/free/gallery.asp?mem=130939
All but one picture has been removed and that is probably a fake also.
I wonder if he is really Matt Nathaniels he looks more like Kris Knight a porn star on google.com


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2/21/2006 12:31:32 PM

 
Hank M   Thank you BP Staff for pulling this fake from the site.


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2/21/2006 1:16:10 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  That's Harley's attempt to stem the competition of their market share. There's so much more than configuration that plays a role in engine tone.


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2/21/2006 1:58:35 PM

 

BetterPhoto Member
  It was just an example of patent law. It was an example of how you can not patent a sound.


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2/21/2006 3:59:28 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  welcome hank,
i see smoke but no gun.you yourself could have set up that gallery,or me,or the Dr..
so far no real evidence that bp is actually involved or that they removed the photos.
a coincidence;the same day you become a member you spot a fake gallery?
i'm just playing perry mason here and going by the lack of evidence,which so far is here say,there is no way to point a finger.
scenario;i jump in with a juicy thread,stir up some bp'ers with accusations,and slide in under the smokescreen.i get accepted as a member of the flock even though i'm a wolf.
time for my medication,sam


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2/22/2006 9:05:16 AM

 
Hank M   The pictures in question were these.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northwest/sites/inpictures/pages/snowfeb04.shtml?17
Snow Fence
http://www.alanandsandycarey.com/Domestic/Horses/ “Wild Horse in Winter”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/3525009.stm
“Got Butter?”
http://www.vitalita.com/foodpicts.html
“Chocolate Pie”

I might have just join but have been looking at pictures in galleries for a while.
But it is funny that I contact the BP staff about it and now his pictures are now pulled and he has failed to respond to any of this.


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2/22/2006 9:14:26 AM

 
Debby A. Tabb
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/4/2004
  Sam,
Don't take those meds yet!,lol,lol
I really agree as well.
and would ask, why would you want your first contact with others on this site to be like this?
You haven't even set up a gallery of your own yet.
not that his actions would not be wrong, but why would you want to join here with accusation's (spell it right Sam?lol)being the first step you take?
I do hope things go better.


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2/22/2006 9:35:28 AM

 
Craig m. Zacarelli
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/3/2005
  Porn star? whats a Porn star? am I missing something here...?
lol

(just trying to imply that I dont know what "porn" is... as I dont look at such thing)
lol
c'mon, tell us who it is.
Craig-


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2/22/2006 9:53:30 AM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  thanks for the laugh debby,and yeah you spelled it right.i guess I have been slipping on my nit picking.
i wasn't accusing anyone,i even said I could have done it.i love a good mystery,my script just took a different path.
hank,there is an ongoing game here at bp of cat and mouse,i think i'm a mouse,and without a rule book,it's like playing the ol game of clue.
lead pipe,library,but who?
i say take care and join the game,sam


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2/22/2006 10:16:49 AM

 
Debby A. Tabb
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/4/2004
  LOL,LOL Spell Check Sam! I knew youu would catch it again,lol
Thank you for explaining that to him-I was off doing something else and trying to get back, because I thought that only fair.
not saying you,
but it sucks that some are just trouble here . really we uaually all look forward to new comers and the high energy level they bring.
So that in mind I for one look forward to your gallery appering and moving on to some more possitive subjects.
thanks again Sam, hope life is being good to ya.
and Craig,what? now I have to re-read,lol,lol.


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2/22/2006 10:25:48 AM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  well you sure didn't use spell check on that post.oh i'm about to cry.thanks for the entertainment debby.
i was so stressed out about an hour ago working on a game plan for my teams basketball game tonight I thought i'd take a break.thank you for taking the edge off and all who put up with me around here.
sam


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2/22/2006 11:02:02 AM

 
Debby A. Tabb
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/4/2004
  AAH shoot, I sure didn't,lol,lol

have a wonderful day Sam!
and best of luck with your team!


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2/22/2006 12:21:01 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  well,they did win.they sit on top of the league with one loss.i am so proud of them.next up,tournament.
so if I chew anybody's head off in the next few weeks,please forgive me.i wish not to let my team down or allow any let up.
i am still so wired,i need to get off here and settle down.
i thank you all,sam


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2/22/2006 8:50:03 PM

 
Christopher Budny
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/3/2005
chrisbudny.com
  Interesting thread... I think if you spot 100% undeniable pliagiarism, you should report it to the member and to BP, so it seems you've done the right thing.
Guess we'll never know---that BP gallery link still has 1 photo (Icicles) in it, but not apparently the ones you identified as fakes. (What an unusual assortment of images to steal--2 food shots and 2 winter shots (none of which I thought were fantastic.)
And his Frappr entry still exists, but no photo is attached there either, so we'll have to take your word that he resembles Kris Knight. (Dare I ask what ideas you were looking for online, when you found Kris Knight? ;)


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2/23/2006 12:44:15 PM

 
Kerry L. Walker   "Porn star? whats a Porn star? am I missing something here...?"

Well, it sure ain't me! (Too old and out of shape. lol)


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2/23/2006 2:36:09 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  hey justin,i couldn't find any other way to contact you so i'll put it here.
the photos you use is wll noted as to who the photographer was.that person also gets some publicity.i see nothing wrong with it at all.
sam


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2/26/2006 11:05:16 AM

 
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