 Dinene Wolf |
selling limited and unlimited rights to my images I took images for a lady who is recording a CD and wants to use my images on her CD jacket and website. She also wants to use an image for a promo shot. I have no idea how to charge for this type of work. So far, I've only done work like senior pics and weddings. Now, I am venturing into the unknown. She wants unlimited rights to the images she purchases from me. Can anyone give me any advise? If there is anyone out there who has experience selling this type of work, I would appreciate any advise you can offer. Thanks so much Dinene Wolf
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Bret Tate |
Dinene: Are you selling the rights to the image or unlimited usage? If you sell the rights you giving away your ownership and any use or future use that you may have for the images. If you are selling usage rights you retain the ownership of the images. The price would not be the same in both cases.
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Dinene Wolf |
I am selling unlimited usage of the image. I will still retain ownership of the image. Thanks so much for responding.
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Mark Feldstein |
Well Dinene, if you're selling ALL the rights, you're basically surrendering all rights you have to use the images in any way, including for self-promotion, stock, or someone who just wants to use them for the same or similar purposes as the lady who hired you. It sounds to me as though you shot first and got around to discussing usage after-the-fact. That's always problematic, especially AFTER you've been paid. If you DID agree to usage rights beforehand and all this is is a modification to your previous agreement, then you first need to agree on whether you both can have co-extensive usage of the work, i.e., she uses it for what she wants, you get to use it for what you want, including retaining the right to resell them for stock, etc. Remember, that if you sell her your copyright and all your rights. You're granting her an unlimited license for the life of your previously held copyright, to use and publish, sell and resell the images in any way she sees fit, and probably without evening giving you photo credit. So, if she turns around and let's say sells your image to an ad agency that buys your image from her to use in an ad for Volkswagon or a national brand of some kind, like Downey Fabric Softener, or to a drug company to illustrate an ad, you get nothing and are entitled to nothing because you sold the rights. So, in that respect, Bret is quite right in saying the price isn't the same in both cases. But what prices and how do you determine them? The basic starting point to making that determination is what the total value of all the images are worth to her now, and potentially what they'll be worth to her for any purpose later on. While you can't really know future value, you need to measure her present value against what they may potentially be worth to you in the future. In terms of now, they may be worth little or nothing to you. But if the work is that general and can be used as stock, consider what you might earn with those images reselling secondary publication rights to some outfit over the next 10 or 20 years or so at say the right of $10.00 or $20 per image per month X 20 years or so. See how it adds up pretty fast. That could be the starting point for your negotiations, assuming you don't have to renegotiate a previous usage agreement. And make sure any agreements you enter into are written and signed and dated by you and the client. Take it light.
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Dinene Wolf |
In this situation, the young lady is working on a Contemporary Christian CD and wants to use the images on her CD jacket and her website. However, she wants unlimited usage. I want to give her unlimited usage of the images but not ownership. I want to maintain my copyright ownership. I don't like giving up ownership of my work. I want to be able to use it to advertise and promote my photo art business. I am stuck on what do I charge for something like this. I know I need to go to my lawyer and have him draw up some type of contract for me to use in these situations. I am new to this business and have no idea what the market value is for work like this. I know I can never expect to get what people who have been in the business for a long time gets but I need to try and figure out what people like me who are just starting out and have a small business on the side are getting. Do you mind me asking how you handled this type of work when you first started out? I just need a few examples to get an idea on what direction to go in. Any advise is so much appreciated. Thanks for the input so far. Dinene Wolf
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Mark Feldstein |
No, you shouldn't need a lawyer to draft a usage agreement and they're ill-equipped to determine what the value of a particular photograph is. I suggest you either look on the net for photo usage contracts, or contracts for photography. Or get a book by Allworth Press called Business Practice Forms for Professional Photographers. http://www.allworth.com The time to start setting professional rates isn't after you've been in the biz awhile, but when you're just starting out. One reason for that is so you don't get a reputation as low balling professional shooters, the others is to avoid underselling the value of YOUR work to others. So, I wouldn't wait on that one. I'm not going to suggest any fees beyond what I already have said. I will, however, strongly recommend that if you're doing this as a business, that you treat it accordingly, and join a local chapter or two of a professional association like Professional Photographers of America PPofA, American Society of Media Photographers (http://www.asmp.org) Or even as an associate member of ASMP or APA (Advertising photographers of America) http://www.apa.com. When I first started out, I joined ASMP and National Press Photographers Assn. as I was a photographer with the Chicago Sun Times. When I was in school before that, I established fees by talking with local pros about what they would charge for similar types of work.
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Dinene Wolf |
Thank you, Mark, for all your advise and encouragement. I will definitely look into joining some type of photographer's organization and look on the net for a contract I can use. Take care, Cheers to the New Year!!
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Mark Feldstein |
You're welcome Diene. Anytime. And HNY to you as well. ;>) Mark
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