 Janessa L. Taber-Webb |
Large Group Photo Okay-Someone called me today about portraits. They want them on Christmas Eve at 11 in the morning. There are 30 people, and they are wanting a big group photo. I am not quite sure what the going rate for 30 people is, but maybe somone could give me some good advice on sitting fee's for 30 people. Also, the fact that it's on Christmas Eve, and I wanted to take it off! (but I will do it!) Does anyone have any suggestions on taking a group photo of that many people? I have taken large group photo's before but none that large. So if someone has some great expert advice I would really be forever greatful! Janessa
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Debby A. Tabb |
Janessa, Lets start with what should you charge? well,To tell you the truth-this is totally up to you. you can charge what ever working on Christmas eve is worth to you.My sugestion to you -would be to call some local studios and see what they would charge you for the same thing-then go with what ever your cofortable with. most studios would not want to mess with it. However it can be in most cases one of the funnest jobs you will ever do. these types of sittings are usually so gratefull to have you there, they will talk about it all year long and usually have you back the following. so is the referrance of 20-30 people worth doing the job on Christmas eve?? only you can answer that. I would and have. As far as the sitting fee-personaly with a group this large-I put a price and hour amount on it. *example:say 200 for 4 hours-that gives them 4 hours to take all the images you can. ( prints ,CD's etc. are extra) * You should Treat something like this (and all family reunions ) like Weddings to a extent-they are a lot of work(but fun) you will need to do the group shot and many approvel sets. my suggestion to get all you really want to get is to build towards the family group shot. grandparents are always first. then them with all grandkids. then them with their adult kids, ect. You are welcome to give me a call about all of this and I can walk you through it. To help you through a holiday secene of 30 persons, it would help to know what you have available: stools, benches, posing blocks. don't worry-not as scary as it all may seem, really- you WILL have a lot of fun! and the quickest way to swim is to dive right in! also some help may come from the thread" Studio Photography..part 1-8" also, I do need to know what lighting you have available also. I do hope some of this helps you get started. Now hurry, you don't have much time to prepare.
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
I would charge a typical 'holiday' pay. That is time and a half of what you would normally charge. Just remember there are thirty people so your print order on this could be very large. :) It will most likely be well worth your while for you to do the shoot. I agree with debby, you should do the individual families while you are there, that will add to your print sales tremendously! You might already know this but 11:00 can be pure witching hour for photographs. Hopefully you can do it inside with some major studio lighting. If not you might have huge issues with shadows at that hour if you can not find a large enough 'shade' space. Just some thoughts! It sounds like a blast!! :) Let us all know how it turns out!! :)
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Mark Feldstein |
Greetings Jasmine: You know, this deal is not as easy as you might be led to believe, unless of course, your intent is to go and shoot a snapshop of the group without regard to whether any of them are recognizable in the finished image. So, before quoting them a price, you need to first actually look at the venue (or a diagram of it) and consider the degree of difficulty in both orchestrating / coordinating 20-30 people and actually photographing them, i.e., angles, lighting, exposure, equipment necessary, rental and any assistant fees. If you're shooting indoors, what kind of lighting do you have available both at the facility and in your bag of tricks to make sure it's uniform and no one is left in shadows. Beyond that, consider travel time to and from the venue, time spent meeting with the client before and after the shoot including preparation and planning, set-up and strike time, your actual costs multiplied by whatever factor(s) you use, rights of usage fees, print costs, etc. $200 bucks?? I think not. You also probably need an angst factor. If they're going to be serving guests booze, chances are that some of them are going to be hammered and you're going to have to deal with them. Also, you're going to have a very limited time frame to make the actual photo, including staging the group so you can actually see all of their faces regardless of the angle you're at. While it's a nice thought, thus doesn't sound like it's a photo to be done with models and used for advertising. So, providing posing blocks, stools, chairs, etc., for 20-30 people is pretty much out of the question for you and your prospective client, unless of course you want to go into the staging business with a truck load of props. You have to make do with what's immediately available at the venue and particularly in the room or facility where you'll be working. Also, 20-30 people get restless and tend to drift after a few minutes, talking to each other, turning their heads away from the camera, etc. You need to be able to control the group and you've only got a few minutes to do it. Notwithstanding Debby's suggestion, insofar as you've said, this is NOT a wedding and you have no clue as to the familial relationships of these folks. Nor do you need to know. One of your tasks is to arrange them in a way that they're all recognizable in the finished image. Calling local studios is going to be of little value unless you've got the time to interview them and find out what their experience is doing this kind of stuff. Event / P-R photography is kind of a specialty. As far as print sales, your mission is to do a group photo, not individual portraits unless your client approves that in advance and compensates you accordingly. If they do, you need to plan for that as well. And, from experience, I can tell you that at corporate or office parties, some people may not want their candids shot for a lot of reasons, some of which should be obvious to those who've attended these things. Lastly, I can safely tell you that the fun for the photographer doesn't begin until the shot is finished, the equipment packed up, and you have a chance to sit down and relax after it's over with. As far as talking about you all year long, remember that if you are really holding yourself out as a professional, if you blow this assignment, you don't want to hear what they'll be saying about you and what your reputation will be after-the-fact. Seewhatimean? Sure, just dive right in, give them an off handed price, then either sink, swim or. . . drown. And as a professor once told us: "Fear is the beginning of wisdom." ;>) Have yourself a merry x-mas eve.
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Debby A. Tabb |
I have been working in this venue for 12+ years, and You can not develop the best of compisitions with out knowing the relationship between the different parties- if they are just friends-you can feel free to pose them with out concern of trying to hold some family groupings together. *Any good protrait artist , will do their job with the utmost of skill- and providing a client with approvals of a group and the Group product itself is a large part of YOUR job.These would be Portraits( not candids ) of the individual families, and Grandparents, as well- see the reason of knowing the realationships of people in a group setting- again if just co-workers or friends these may only apply to those who want to partisapate- but in a family group , you should concider them a requirement. as I stated, If you would like to email me with a number I can help you as I have many others (see thread: studio Photography) by phone to develop and then we can graph out this group a bit in a few different ways . this is a LOT easier then some would have you belive-a lot of work yes, but easy in the way that as you do it -it will be fun and exciting for you. After 12 plus years of this Professionally doing FAMILY Portraits, I can say honestly that large family groups and events thrill me to know end- they are always enjoyable. * also, it is sad to say that some here on BP would rather cut down on their compition by deturing and even intimidating other Photographers from going on to experiance event photography for themslves-it's to bad. Why do I share so much here on BP, because a truly artful Photographer, who values the customer service they put forth, should never and will probubly never be affraid of compitition. Unfortunately some would rather you fear the negitive , then Look forward to CREATING a possitive. * and lastly, I have done groups of 30+ with nothing more then 3 stools and a small bench and some assorted posing blocks( again these can be seen on thread 6-7? and are easy to make) this type of equiptment should be part of any studio of mobile studios equiptment. Again I offer my help to many here, and will be glad to do so with you as well- the phone is easier for me as I have my own company doing Christmas events an dI am a consultant for another as well.So most of our talks are done late or very early CA. time or when I am driving. Wishing Success in your endevores, Debby tabb
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Debby A. Tabb |
With all due respect, I have been working in this venue for 12+ years, and You can not develop the best of compisitions with out knowing the relationship between the different parties- if they are just friends-you can feel free to pose them with out concern of trying to hold some family groupings together. *Any good protrait artist , will do their job with the utmost of skill- and providing a client with approvals of a group and the Group product itself is a large part of YOUR job.These would be Portraits( not candids ) of the individual families, and Grandparents, as well- see the reason of knowing the realationships of people in a group setting- again if just co-workers or friends these may only apply to those who want to partisapate- but in a family group , you should concider them a requirement. as I stated, If you would like to email me with a number I can help you as I have many others (see thread: studio Photography) by phone to develop and then we can graph out this group a bit in a few different ways . this is a LOT easier then some would have you belive-a lot of work yes, but easy in the way that as you do it -it will be fun and exciting for you. After 12 plus years of this Professionally doing FAMILY Portraits, I can say honestly that large family groups and events thrill me to know end- they are always enjoyable. * also, it is sad to say that some here on BP would rather cut down on their compition by deturing and even intimidating other Photographers from going on to experiance event photography for themslves-it's to bad. Why do I share so much here on BP, because a truly artful Photographer, who values the customer service they put forth, should never and will probubly never be affraid of compitition. Unfortunately some would rather you fear the negitive , then Look forward to CREATING a possitive. * and lastly, I have done groups of 30+ with nothing more then 3 stools and a small bench and some assorted posing blocks( again these can be seen on thread 6-7? and are easy to make) this type of equiptment should be part of any studio of mobile studios equiptment. Again I offer my help to many here, and will be glad to do so with you as well- the phone is easier for me as I have my own company doing Christmas events an dI am a consultant for another as well.So most of our talks are done late or very early CA. time or when I am driving. Wishing Success in your endevores, Debby tabb
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Debby A. Tabb |
And do remember that one of the worlds greatest leaders, over came all his obsticals and said: " There is nothing to fear but fear itself..." Franklin Delano Roosevelt
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Mark Feldstein |
First Debby, and with all due respect to you as well, nothing in Janessa's question indicates this is a family gig. So, unless you know something we don't, I'm going to continue to assume it's not. Even if it is a family deal, any above-average photographer who is really good with people can connect the people in their images without having seen the subject's family tree. Besides, in a lot of situations, you may be better off not knowing their relationships. LOL ! Although it's kind of you to offer a phone consult, why not just drop me your e-mail address and I'll drop you my own credentials. And, your implied assertion that I'm somehow trying to discourge Janessa is way out of line. My suggestions to her are based on real world experience of shooting countless corporate group portraits ranging from a few to over 200 individuals in one shot, on film, published for an annual report and without a single bit of photoshopping. Also, I haven't the slightest clue as to how you could possibly "graph out this group in different ways" without knowing anything about the venue size, shape, lighting and ceiling height. Regarding props, I didn't know Janessa had a mobile studio with all that paraphrenalia. If she did, $200 bucks to send a mobile studio with all that equipment for a 2 hour shoot? Yikes !!! As to your comment: "*Any good protrait artist , will do their job with the utmost of skill- and providing a client with approvals of a group and the Group product itself is a large part of YOUR job.These would be Portraits( not candids ) of the individual families, and Grandparents, as well- see the reason of knowing the realationships of people in a group setting- again if just co-workers or friends these may only apply to those who want to partisapate- but in a family group , you should concider them a requirement." To clarify what I said earlier though, sometimes people attend corporate functions with people they DON'T want to be photographed with, especially in a candid situation since their spouse or significant other might get wind of it. I also submit that there is a vast difference between a well thought out, properly illuminated and well-executed photograph vs. a Kodak Moment knock-off with flat or uneven lighting, blocked faces and highlights, detailess shadows, and more concern paid to propping arrangements than to the real subject matter of the photograph. I'm pleased, however, that you thrill to doing family portraits. There's certainly a need and market for that kind of work, especially using a cookie cutter approach that one finds at Sears portrait studios, among others. but you also need to recognize and acknowledge in your replies to people from time to time that there's a great difference between that type of work vs. commercial / illustrative work. I forgot who said it but sometimes Debby, "Sharing less... is more." :>) Oh, and one other adage: "You get what you pay for."
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Janessa L. Taber-Webb |
It is actually a family portrait!! I am trying to figure out how to pose them now, and what lense to use! I have a 18-55 mm, and an 85 mm!
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Melissa L. Zavadil |
Jenessa, I just thought that I would tell you my husbands family just had this done. There were over thirty people in the photo. It was done indoors and the lighting in the photos were absolutely terrible. Some of the members did not even put their shoes on for the portrait. We all had major shadows and there was not one picture that had all the people looking in the same direction at the same time. With that said, the photographer STILL made a KILLING off of the shoot! :) The thing is when there are more people involved -- the problems increase, people not looking, eyes closed, shadows, etc etc, with every person it increases the difficulty with getting that perfect picture. But, because these people really are just wanting a photo of everyone together people will give you a little slack when it comes to the technicalities. So, relax and do your best! :) It will be fine! :) I would bring both lenses because you do not know where this is going to be shot at. You might not have the space for the 85...... just a thought.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
also, it is sad to say that some here on BP would rather cut down on their compition by deturing and even intimidating other Photographers from going on to experiance event photography for themslves-it's to bad. Intimidating?
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Debby A. Tabb |
yep! just read through some of the wedding posts. Mark, you really should re-read what I posted-several thing misread, the biggest one being that I said to qote 200.00---that was a "lets say..." and it says prints and Cd's etc. are extra. and I never offered for you to email me for anything, that offer was put forth to the one doing the event. Janessa, feel free to contact me if any more info. is needed.
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Michelle Andersson |
Hello Janessa, You were asking about a lens. Be careful of wide angle lenses. If you need to use one, make sure to keep people away from the edges or else their bodies will be distorted. No one likes to look distorted! :) I find that a 50mm focal length is just perfect. As for having everyone looking at the camera two things to keep in mind. Take lots of pictures!! Also, I find that when you've got so many people that the "counting to three" method works well. What I do is count to three and then yell something really unexpected. Instead of saying "1,2,3 smile", I might say "1,2,3 Perogies and Pickles" . This will work to yet everyone looking at the camera and you'll get nice smiles. When people start to expect the unexpected then I'll count to three, laugh and say smile. You'll get a couple more shots doing that. Oh and be sure to take your time, no matter who's pressuring you. Postioning lights and so many people always takes a bit of time and there always seems to be the one person who complains about wanting it to be overwith. Don't let that get to you. Sometimes I just smile and wink and let them know that the torture will be overwith soon. Whatever you say to address their comments, just keep your cool. Taking an extra 30 secs sometimes can be the difference between getting the shot and messing something up. Debbie helped me with lighting my first large group and her advice really helped me out. Thanks Debbie! Well hope this helps you out.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Perogies and pickles sounds too intimidating.
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Debby A. Tabb |
Jenessa, thank You for your contact, an dkind words. I wrote you a reply, but it came back when sent. so maybe your box is full- let me know and I will resend the info. Have a great day, and thanks again, Debby
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Mark Feldstein |
Excuse me Debby, but to quote your post directed to me, you said: "Again I offer my help to many here, and will be glad to do so with you as well- the phone is easier for me as I have my own company doing Christmas events an dI am a consultant for another as well.So most of our talks are done late or very early CA. time or when I am driving." That's why I responded by saying "Although it's kind of you to offer a phone consult, why not just drop me your e-mail address and I'll drop you my own credentials." So, yes, I offered to send you an e-mail rather than talking with you on the phone. As for being intimidating...moi??? intimidating???? If you're referring to me, I'll let you know when I begin to approach intimidating. But thanks for your input. Now...CHECK PLEASE !!! LOL !!
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Janessa L. Taber-Webb |
HEY! This is MY post! Knock it off!
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
©Mine Not anymore.
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Janessa L. Taber-Webb |
HAHA, lol, very funny! BRAT! You got a loud laugh out of me! how funny!
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Glenn G. Gliponeo |
Wow, this thread was (and still is) VERY interesting! I'm very neutral in this and as a matter of fact, respect you all because I'm still learning to be the best photographer I can be though each and every one of you. You may not know it, but people like Janessa and myself look to all of you for help. You all are the experienced ones. I've seen everyone's work and am very impressed with Mr. La Grange and Debby's. Debby, you have a HUGE heart and possess the giving quality that all artists need to have. Janessa, that's something you need to remember in becoming a photographic artist. The caveat to that is that you can also learn from Mr. Felstein. So far, from this, I've learned that.
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