 anonymous |
Photography - just born with the ability? All I've been thinking lately. Are really good photographers created or are they born with it? I really think you are born with the ability, the creative flair etc, and that you build on that with courses and trial and error, practice etc. Especially if you already have an artistic side. What about people who don't have a create bone in their body, can they be taught how to create wonderful, photographs? Or would they struggle? They may end up with all the technical ability, but would they still be able to be creative? I think with the "creative" side of things, you either have it or you don't. I was told once, that only a small % of photographers can naturally compose a photograph without any prior training. If these photographers actually get taught how to "compose" it is difficult for them as they do it by "feel" not by a "text book". But if you can't compose naturally, then you can easily be taught via the "text book" (for example). But can you be taught the things that some people are born with, the natural ability? What are your thoughts? I may not of worded my feelings above clearly, but hopefully you will understand my questions!
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Samuel Smith |
hi natalie,confidence,is that what you just described?eh?
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doug Nelson |
Making a competently composed photograph, properly exposed and focused, is learned behavior. College professors teach us to write by giving us competently written passages and books, and inflicting pain on our egos when they catch us writing badly. Finally, we know when we write badly, and know when a photograph does not communicate what we want it to, because we remember our failures, but also the good photographs we've done and the good pieces we've written. We are also aware of the good work of others, and emulate it, whether or not we are conscious of it. Cartier-Bresson mastered the basic elements of making a photograph. His incredible talent for capturing the decisive moment came from complete mastery of the tool he used, but also a love for what he was doing. I can photograph for bucks, doing competent weddings (actually, I don't), photograph for contests, to get the approval and accolades of others, or I can photograph for myself, becuae I like what I am seeing through the viewfinder. I have to believe that my work pleases or at least stimulates an emotional response in some others. Maybe its an affirmation that I am not alone in appreciating the way light falls on thing, or the beauty of a moment. Others are much more creative, doing things in Photoshop I would never think of doing. Is it art? Of course it is. Is it learned behavior? I am far less sure. We can learn to manipulate shutter speeds and apertures, and we can learn Photoshop operations, but the creative side is elusive, and, compared to mere competence, rather rare.
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Irene Troy |
Hey Natalie – great topic, I’m glad you started this thread! I have these type discussions with people all the time – talent and ability; learned or born with? I got my first camera; a Brownie Box when I was about 5 years old and always took pictures at family events and at school. Nothing great or even creative, simply snap shots recording these events. When I was about ten I published my first piece of writing, a piece of fiction in a regional magazine. I always liked to write and excelled in any class project that involved writing. (About all I excelled in when still in school!) When I went off to college my writing improved when I took writing classes. I graduated and started work as a clinical social worker – something I did for almost 25 years. During that time I wrote and published a number of articles that were serious and, looking back, boring to anyone who was not in clinical work. Always there was something missing in my life – the urge to create, to capture the essence of our world and the desire to spend much more time exploring and having adventures was really strong. I left social work about 3 years ago to pursue this dream of writing and traveling. I also once again picked up a camera and began taking pictures of things. After trying to sell some of these images to accompany the travel and nature articles I was selling I quickly learned that I knew almost nothing about serious photography. I saw the beauty all around me and wanted to share this vision, but my photos failed miserably. So, I started to read everything I could find and, eventually, found this site. I’m finishing up my 3rd BP class and feel that, finally, I am able to capture what I want with my camera. Of-course there is still much to learn and I do not consider myself an expert by any definition of that word. I see images here that are amazing and yearn to produce images of that caliber. So, do I believe that talent can be taught? Absolutely! However, the drive to create is either in us or not – it cannot be taught, but it can be encouraged or discouraged. I could go on for hours about how education so often kills creativity, but… Bottom line: I think there are 2 equally important elements for success (no matter how that is defined) in any art: technique which can be taught and learned; and drive which cannot be taught but, is either within us or not. Drive is what pulls me out of bed before the sun is up so that I can try to capture the incredible light of sunrise. Technique is what makes it possible for me to capture this light.
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Samuel Smith |
the military has been taking kids for many years and teaching them to kill,not sure if anyone is born with that ability.kinda extreme? both of your answers were well worth reading.
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anonymous |
Samuel ?????? not very relevant. Killing is not art and not creative. Irene I totally agree! I think you can be taught technique, but you need the passion and the creative flair to be able to really achieve wonderful photos. Technique makes you excel what you already have. I was thinking about this, cause there are some students in my Tafe class, who want to make photography their living, so they are learning the "technical" side of things, but although their photos are exposed well etc, they lack the creative side, photos are not composed properly, no imagination, and I just think to myself "how are you going to make it as a photographer, if you just don't have those creative skills that good photographers are just born with". They also stubble around a camera, not very confident with it. So it got me to thinking, "Are photographers born with it". Any more comments?
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- Bob Cournoyer Contact Bob Cournoyer Bob Cournoyer's Gallery  |
Personally, I see Samuel's point. Learn the technique and with repetition you get more creative about how to accomplish the task. I am mechanically challenged, yet my son came out of the chute with a box of legos in his hand (his mother wasn't much pleased...:-))and built a superb space station without instruction.....Yes, I believe some are born with "the eye"....:-) Bob
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Samuel Smith |
you asked if something could be taught,prejudice?oh yeah photography?? a teacher can only teach to a student who wants to learn! i am sorry I was trying to help.and you didn't ask about art or creativity. born with it or could be taught?
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anonymous |
Mmmmm Sam, re-read my first post s l o w l y..... please. I am sure I meantioned "creativity" a few times.
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Samuel Smith |
yes you did,but relavent,i guess I was thinking of something else.
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anonymous |
Cool
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Samuel Smith |
your my sister posing as someone else,i'll get even?
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anonymous |
Sam - what are you talking about??, it isn't like you haven't seen me on the boards before. How is your sister going to get hold of my password - in live in Australia.
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Kerry L. Walker |
Sam is joking. Like me, he has an overactive sense of humor.
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Irene Troy |
Hey guys, could we get past the snipping and back to the topic of creativity and learning? Sorry, but I really dislike sniping. Anyway, back to the topic of learned creativity. I think that almost everyone is born creative but that much of our creative instinct is hampered by our education and life experience. Too often children are taught that there is only one way of doing anything – usually the way their parents do it or the way a teacher does it. Creative approaches are often frowned upon by educators and we quickly learn that to succeed we must follow the same path that everyone else follows. Some of us, if we are lucky, hang on to at least a ruminant of creative spirit. Yet, a creative spirit cannot, in itself, help us to become better photographers (or better anything). I always saw things that others could not see – the light, the wind, the “soul” of a place; however, until I learned technique I was unable to even begin to capture these things on film. Natalie, I suspect that the students whose work you see as uncreative lack confidence in their own ability to see. I look at some of the work that people new to photography post on this website and while some of it is interesting, much of it lacks “zing”. However, when these same people start learning the ropes of photography their images improve, often dramatically. I do not believe that just because someone seems to be struggling with the principles of exposure, composition and the fundamentals of photography means that that person is unlikely to succeed. When I got serious about photography I was having real trouble trying to remember all the fundamentals and sometimes felt as if I would never produce good images. I had no confidence in my own ability not only to produce decent work but even to see the possibilities before me. Over time, through reading, taking classes and lots and lots of shooting both the technical and creative aspects of my work have improved. Most important, my confidence has increased and I truly believe that confidence plays a very large part in being capable of expressing oneself creatively.
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Elisabeth A. Gay |
Irene is right. I used to take pictures in my teens, no-one ever ooh or ah'd over them, so I didn't think I had any talent. After taking some photos at my daughter's graduation 2 years ago, someone commented that they were really good, that I seemed to have a "natural eye". So I decided to pursue it - I may have a natural eye for composition, but without learning the technical skills, it would be worth nothing. And yes, I have the passion. I've always, all my life, looked at scenery with a view to what that would look like in a picture, everything from caterpillars on leaves to mountain ranges. As a kid I used to sit and look at things in awe of the Creator and long to capture the essence of what I saw for posterity. I get so deeply involved that sometimes my husband asks me if I am still on this planet, and do I remember who he is LOL And daily, I read books on techniques, and wade through BetterPhoto's wonderful galleries, until the gnawing discomfort in the pit of my stomach reminds me that I haven't put the dinner on yet!! :)
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Kerry L. Walker |
Fortunately, I was born with an artistic eye. Unfortunately, someone borrowed it and never returned it.
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Elisabeth A. Gay |
Thanks for the laugh Kerry!! :)
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Kathy L. Pollick |
I'll throw in my 2 cents worth too. I believe a good photographer is born but also created... as is anyone with a "real" talent. I think you are born with that creative eye, to see things other people might miss. BUT, in order to develop that creativity into something awe-inspiring, I think you have to develop your learning ability. By studying, learning, practicing & simply enjoying what you do, you develop your talent into something bigger than you imagined. As with any child prodigy... unless they learn more & develop what they start with, they go no where. I sing... (not professionally), but over the years I worked & developed what came natural to me & it was something I enjoyed & had no trouble learning... other things I may be able to do through learning, but certainly not as natural as my god-given talent. And Kerry, I'm with you... somewhere along the line, people are always borrowing my stuff & never bringing it back..LOL
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anonymous |
Some good responses there, and basically what I was thinking. But most people who responded, were born "creative" in one way or another, and their learning helped them build on that. Love your response Kerry - made me laugh!!!!
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Samuel Smith |
well, kerry,i just spit some more beer out?without a sense of humor,i think suicide is my call. to those that have responded,that's some real thinking,and I am proud to be a part of it. and I appreciate kerry,he's trying to tell you i'm a maroon,ok? and natalie,we are all born with something,for you it may be humanatarian,your geniune interest in people's opinion sends a real message? it may just be why? but the sincerity is there? take a picture of it.?? thank you all again for your heads up.
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