 OldShoe Photo |
What Are You Looking For? Myself and others are wondering what exactly are the judges looking for? I have some nice work on this site, only to be overlooked and not even commented on by ANY judge. I dont want to sound like I am whining, I just REALLY would like to know. Thank you.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
liking your own photos dosen't mean somebody else will.
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Susan L. Vasquez |
Ouch Gregory...but it is honest. Lord knows what others may see and like. I have posted images that I really think are so-so and others like them. Then there are images that I post that I LOVE, and it never gets much attention. *Shrugs* Shelly, judges look for color, composition, clarity. Make sure your images are always properly exposed and in focus. Use the rule of thirds, be creative. http://www.betterphoto.com/contest/guidelines.php
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BetterPhoto Member |
no offense to you gregory, but that is not a helpful answer. I don't understand why you take the time to answer some of the posts that you do with the answers that you do. When I first began photography, I asked very basic answers and was always treated poorly by people who obviously thought they were better than me. I didn't appreciate it then and I hate seeing people treated the same way now.
The judges have thousands of entries every month and they obviously can't comment on all of them. If you search on this site for keywords judges and contest, you may find some interesting threads that are a little more helpful. Good luck to you!
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Maverick Creatives |
Over the years I have presented many images I felt were worthy of praise. As time went by, and I took more courses, I began to understand what photography is really about. The Panel that judges our photographs on this site are all PROFESSIONAL. The thing I notice is that although we all feel we should be a finalist, there is no mistaking that the winners are truly winners and deserving of mention. Photography is an ART. You know when you did your best, and THAT is what's important. Keep learning, experimenting, adjusting, choosing, in other words, "get into it". Regards
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
No offense taken, especially since I said the same thing as everybody else. 14,000 pictures in a contest and everybody expects a win and comment. Sentiment over a photo of your own kid dosen't automatically carry over. Some things are subjective, but others aren't. You take a sunset photo it's not subjective to want the horizon straight and not way tilted. You get upset over that then you definitely need a thicker skin. Everything can't be sugar coated. That's what some contest depend on, and make a huge living off of.
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anonymous |
Yep, I really don't understand why people keep complaining that they aren't winning, yes, I ok, I've had a win, but I am seriously gob smacked when I have won, as there are thousands of entries, it must be so hard to choose. I think you seriously need to look at your photos and think - are they just as good or better than the ones that are winning? People have to get use to rejection, it is the only way to better yourself.
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- Sherry Stricklin Boles Contact Sherry Stricklin Boles Sherry Stricklin Boles's Gallery |
Shelly, First, I'm sorry about the not-so-helpful answers that you have received. (I have noticed this to be a disturbing trend in these threads.) I wish that I could give you an answer to your question...I have been at BP for several months and cannot come up with that answer either. Susan listed the technical answer from the guidelines. In addition to that, I studied the judges comments section and looked at the comments and photos. Unfortunately, all I found there were contradictions...they would say no wording, then a photo with wording would win finalist. So, that didn't help. To add to the mystery, even very good photographers here at BP have made comments that they didn't expect a certain photo of theirs to win (sometimes they expected another which did not). I guess, what it comes down to is beauty IS in the eye of the beholder and it's the photos that catch the judges eye(s) that win... Good luck on finding that eye catching combination! :) And remember if your photography makes you happy, then it's already a winner in your eyes!!
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Mike Carpenter |
So you think that gregory's answer was mean? I seem to agree with him. If you just have people always telling you that you work is great then how do you expect to improve. I am always open for comments good or bad. If I don't know the things I'm doing wrong how can I fix them? The people who get to be a finalist have very nice shots, the people that are winners have GREAT shots. As Natalie said "look at your photos and ask yourself if they are as good as the winners". If I were in the position where my photos were not winning time after time then I would want some critiqes to learn where I'm going wrong. So I don't think it's a negative comment I think it is very helpful and true, just because you like them does not mean others will!
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Susan L. Vasquez |
Well not so much mean, but brutally honest. When someone is frustrated they need a bit of encouragement not so much frankness. I am very pleased that Gregory decided to elaborate on his earlier statement because it is SO true. ILP takes advantage of making "everyone" a winner and this really gets in the way of improving. I really like that Sherry says "if your photography makes you happy, then you are a winner in your own eyes" but disagree that the judges are contradicting themselves. Guidelines are not rules per se, but they are good building blocks to photography. Sometimes "breaking the rules" creates something new and original.
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Daniela Meli |
Ok, I know I'm going to create some controversy with my comment, but I've been thinking about this for a long time. First, let me be clear: I know MY photos are not winning material, so this is not about being disappointed. I honestly think that most of the photos that are commented on and most of the winning photos are way to corny. I'm sorry, but to me, blurring the background on a kid's pic is not being a photographer. I don't need to see another orange sunset, another black and white with only the eyes left in color, and the small baby in daddy's hands (difficult to do as it may be) is posted at least twice a month. I think being a photographer is not about creating a pretty image (by actually taking the photo with your camera or by extensive use of photoshop), it's about saying something, getting a message across through an image. And that is the hard part (I sure can't do it). So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think there are great images in this site and that as far as the technical qualities of the winning photos go, I do tend to agree with BP judges, but I usually don't agree with the judge’s choices regarding the subjects. A baby in a bucket does not contain a message to me, but apparently it does to most people in this site. Of course, even a baby in a bucket has to be properly lit, in focus, and with a good composition, and that is being judged here. I really like this site for it’s quality and the forums, I just have learned to disagree with the predominant aesthetics in it. So, going back to your question, technical quality can be judged by others, the subject of your photos can only be judged by you.
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OldShoe Photo |
WOW what a response. I am here to learn..... Yes I would like my photos to be critiqued and to learn from my mistakes. I know my photos are good, at least to me they are! My question was based on the same type of photos winning month after month, it was not by ANY MEANS to slam the winners, because they are gorgeous photos. I want to LEARN what I can do to make my photos catch the eye of other people. Im sorry if this thread offended some, I thought I could get some assistance that is why I posted it here. Thanks for all the comments.....
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Christopher A. Vedros |
I think it's time to add more categories to the contest. When you're getting 20,000+ entries in a month, 10 categories just doesn't cut it, IMHO. Some of the categories are too broad (like people), and some are just missing even though many have begged for them (like sports). There are some subjects that just don't fit in anywhere, like a still-life photo of an object if it's not a macro shot. I really like having the monthly theme, and I think that should continue, I just think more categories would be better for the participants, and easier on the judges.
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OldShoe Photo |
I could not agree with you more Chris.... How many judges are there? with this many GREAT shots, the work for them has got to be overwhelming... I feel this is the best site for photography around, and that is why Im here..... I want to be one of the good ones and one day I will be. Its not about winning this contest, its about LEARINING.
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Jennifer S |
I understand both points. I have seen more then a few pictures win that are of the same theme I have seen win numerous times. It definitely gets annoying. I have also seen pictures that I would never think stood out as being worthy of winning, especially when I have seen other photos in the contest that I thought were amazing, and didn't win. But I also know each person has their own taste and thousands of entries make it really difficult to make decisions. My only advice is to keep on trying. I have never won, but I keep putting my photos in the contest. I am proud of my work since I have only really been into and learning photography for less then a year and I have grown so much with my photographic skills that it's amazing. Most of the thanks goes to BP. When I started out, I thought the pictures I took were wonderful. Now I can see that they weren't!! Not even close! lol And I know now that I needed major improvement as Im sure I will improve even more by next year. The pictures I think are incredible now may seem mediocre to me later on. So I understand why a professional could possibly not see what I see in my photos. Plus, Im up against AMAZING photographers!! I dont expect to win, though it's still disappointing. You have to keep the faith and not get bitter. I have learned so much here, so I plan to keep on learning and not get discouraged. This is a great site with tons of helpful info. I couldn't ask for a better site!
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Part of the same type winning is that the same type keeps getting enter so often. If the inverse image inside a water drop of what's in the background gets a win again, you'll see an increase of the same type being entered. I don't know when betterphoto started, but the judges have supposedly needed help since I new about it. I think they'll be the first to know when they need help, or need a change for anything. So if it's need for anything, and not a want from contest entrants, they'll do it. And you'll know because you'll sign on one day and poof, it'll be there. ms. bowles, there's a 2nd place trophy from circleofphotographers.com that may ease you disturbesness. I know you don't want me say that it's part one of their two part game, but it's there if you want it.
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- Sherry Stricklin Boles Contact Sherry Stricklin Boles Sherry Stricklin Boles's Gallery |
Just for the record, Gregory, you have me confused with someone else...I haven't ever won at circleofphotographers.com or ever entered a pic for that matter! And I didn't state that Gregory's answer was mean just not-so-helpful; Shelly was asking for help. I actually agree with him. (There's one for the record books!) Perhaps Susan is right about the guidelines being building blocks but I was talking about when they make statements in the Judges Comments section (like no wording) then choose finalists with wording. It gets a bit confusing to me. That's all I'm saying... What we all must keep in mind is the there are all types of photographers here (from beginners to professionals). Not everybody is on the same level. That's why these forums can be so valuable to novice photographers...this is one way to learn more from the pros who are willing to share.
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Kerry L. Walker |
"I have seen more then a few pictures win that are of the same theme I have seen win numerous times." The people who have won by copying previous winners have caught on to what the judges like and duplicate it in an attempt to get a winner. If a win in a contest is what you are after, there is nothing wrong with figuring out what the judges like. After all, they are people and have their own taste in photography. If you know what they like and give it to them, you stand a better chance of getting a winner. This is not meant to be a slam against the judges. Different people have different taste in art.
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Kelly Plitt |
Shelly - since you mentioned you are looking for critiques, I thought I would direct you to photo critique site called www.photosig.com - GREAT for getting (sometimes brutally) honest appraisals of your images, and of other people's images as well. I think that it's important to note that the purpose of photosig is completely different than that of betterphoto, but both are equally great sites, in my opinion! -Kelly
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karenemichaels.com - Karen E. Michaels Contact Karen E. Michaels Karen E. Michaels's Gallery |
I find that there is no difference between winning and losing. I feel the same inside of me after both results. The only difference is that I may get a few more or less email. I enjoy the exchange of ideas and info with other people. Peace gentle people.
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brigitte stahre |
i, for one, am going to check out photosig.com I don't have the time or money [especially money]to take a class. i.m also way out of my league here with the camera I have.. had hoped to get something more constructive than "very nice" or "too predictable" when I post pics for critique altho thats better than no response I guess..
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Irene Troy |
Shelly – I have been away from this forum for a bit but I had some time and decided to check out what was happening and came upon your question. Since yours is a topic that I have recently been ranting about (NOT here, in “real life”) I thought I’d add my 2-cents. Before I say anything – I’m not one of the experts here; far from it, I’m fairly new to serious photography and have not entered any of the contests here –yet. But, I have learned something I think is important and highly relevant: You are not as good as you think you are! Now, this does not mean you, Shelly, or anyone else for that matter – the “YOU” is generic. I used to think that I made great images. In fact, at one time I thought that I had the makings of a pro and that I could sell most of what I shot. I even entered a number of photo contests online and in “real life”. When I didn’t win I thought that the contests were (1) rigged and (2) unfair. I wasted a lot of time thinking I was good and that something else was wrong. I’m lucky to live in a community that is well known as a center for arts of all types. I started looking at photographs in some of the galleries and the images in the photo magazines and suddenly I saw my work a little different. I learned that a well made image is a lot harder to achieve then I once believed. I saw that my work, while occasionally interesting, lacked the polish needed for real quality. I am finishing up on my 3rd class here. For me, these classes have been great. The teachers are exceptional and the feedback, both from the instructors and the students has really helped me to learn how to make better images. Now I look at my old work and sometimes I cringe at what I see. The horizons are tilted; colors are muddy; exposure is off; sharpness is lacking; the main subject is smack in the center like a bull’s eye and the composition lacks interest. It has been painful at times to see how little I know and how much I have still to learn. But, my photography has improved and my confidence along with it. I was recently asked to put together a collection of my work for a local gallery. I’m thrilled, but I also know that I have a long way to go until my images match the level of excellence I often see on this site. Anyway, this is all a long-winded way of saying that perhaps we all need to be more critical of our own work and less critical of those who judge this work. Oh, one final thought: if you are unhappy with the lack of substantive feedback on your gallery ask yourself how often you have provided others with substantive feedback on their work. This is a community and the best way to get what you want from the community is to give to that community. Just my thoughts.
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brigitte stahre |
i have tried to make my feedback substantive and stayed away from 2 word discussions... we all see things from different perspectives but to me often a photo can be greatly improved by small changes.. a little cropping, a little more or less detail.. more focus.. and some photos are just beyond help.. ok, i'm guilty of not commenting on those and often wonder if thats the reason with my stuff..
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher  Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
Yeah, if you like brutal honesty, PhotoSig is your place! They'll rip your head off. LOL.. The only bad part of it is, many of the comments are made by folks who may not even be photographers of any sort..But it's a great place to start. I'll have to go back and check it out. Haven't been over there in a few years.
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brigitte stahre |
joined the free part of photosig where you have to critique others until you earn enough points to submit a photo of your own.. just looked so far and some of the submitted photos look really bad, very blurry and out of focus.. wonder if it's my monitor ..
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Elisabeth A. Gay |
Brigitte and Shelly E. - I was lucky enough to be able to afford to do one of the beginner courses on BetterPhoto, but wish I could do more. However, I have found some of the books to be extremely helpful. Understanding Exposure is my bible now! (ducks a thunderbolt ;) ) As for the comments on photos here, while I do appreciate the very nice comments I wish sometimes that people would tell me what I could do to improve an image. I know it is difficult to put into writing what you think might be helpful constructive criticism without coming across as being rude or overly critical, but I've tried it a few times, and with positive results, usually followed up with a thank you email from the photographer concerned.
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OldShoe Photo |
Thanks soo much to all of you for your comments. I am doing some classes myself, not here, but locally. I was hoping to get some pointers, and that I did get Thanks for all comments. I will never give up on my hopes. I welcome any comments on images that I have posted and will do my best to do the same for others. Still shooting :)
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Sharon Day |
Several good points have been made here. I too have learned a lot since joining BP. Shelly, you said, "I know my photos are good, at least to me they are!" That's not enough to win a contest, and it doesn't mean anything to judges. I'm not even sure how good an attitude it is. My photos rarely suit me. I have been told they are nice, but I always strive for a better image. I never become complacent or think I've arrived. I wish I could critique your images to help you, but I'm afraid I'm rather blunt. Diplomacy isn't my strong suit or so I've been told :o). One piece of advice I'd offer is to study books, this site and the winners. You don't need to copy the winning photos, but it does give you an better idea of the judges' preferences in regards to the contest, which has already been stated a dozen different ways in this thread. Good luck! You will improve as you study!
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anonymous |
Irene - couldn't of said it better myself!!!!!!
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Kimberly J. Whipps |
Hey just a quick note about Photosig. I thought I would check it out, I love betterphoto so much, I thought I might enjoy it. But I deleted my registration. It's a great deal more harsh and people are pretty crass. I went to the forum section, because I learn so much just reading other people's questions, but the first question I read, wasn't about photography...it was about having sex with your friends. I'm sorry, how is that related to photography...I don't know, sounds more like teenage chat room trash to me. Anyway, sure made me appreciate this place even more...thanks BP. :)
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brigitte stahre |
sharon, bluntly honest is what most of us are looking for.. [ok saying :" your photos stink" is blunt but not helpful, I want to know why, what should I do different] kimberly, I never made it to the forum section.. the site is too slow to load, too much adware and pop ups and the few pics I looked at seemed very blurry and out of focus..
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
a horizon is tilted got back a declaration that the horizon of the ocean naturally tilts, and a your pictures a way out of focus got back some !!! and all caps, so great shot still seems to be the preferred choice.
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Irene Troy |
Sharon and Gregory; I agree very strongly with much of what you said here. Gregory, I have also noticed that all too often when someone asks for an “honest” critique of their work that when you are honest and point out what you see as faults that the photographer responds defensively or even, in rare cases, nastily. Sharon, I also question the attitude that “my photos are good – at least to me”. Personally, even when others respond positively to an image I can still see room for improvement. Sure, it’s nice and certainly an ego boost when someone admires an image, but if someone takes the time to view an image and then tells me that the exposure is off, the composition needs help or the image needs some alteration I try to consider what is being said and will often try to either reshoot the same scene or use their advice when I go out shooting again. I’m here to learn and learning is about making mistakes and having more experienced people explain the mistakes and how not to make them again. Also, I believe there is a great difference between being rude and nasty (as some people are on other sites) and being blunt and to the point.
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OldShoe Photo |
Irene, I agree totally with you. I do think that my photos are good, and I know there is improvement needed, that is why I came here and asked for some advice.
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Kelly Plitt |
In response to Kimberly about the photosig forum - they have MANY different forums - one is called "photosig cafe" where you can simply talk about anything - apparently this is the forum she stumbled into. There are many many different forums on that site including digital processing, technique, equipment, and general photography. You don't even have to join to benefit from reading the critiques of photos - why they are good, and what exactly needs to be improved in the eye of the critic. The main page features the photos which have garnered the most points in the last 24 hours, so it's a good place to start. They also filter out any photos of nudes to any non-members and those members who wish to do so in their member settings. I'm not here to be an official "promoter" of photosig, and it has it's faults, but if it wasn't for photosig, I would simply not have improved as much as I have in the last three years or so when I started photography as a hobby.
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brigitte stahre |
i ahve a feeling that the photosig site and my antivirus/antimosteverything program are in conflict.. my freedom program tries to get rid of the pop ups and ads that are a part of the free part of the site.. that makes it slow to load and appears to interfere with the way I see the pictures.. I would guess that if everyone saw the pics as blurred and fuzzy, someone would say so..
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brigitte stahre |
gregory, could you show a sample of tilted horizon? blurry I understand, I do blurry real well. anyway, while there are probably many people who expect the "good shot" response and feel vindicated by it i'd rather have helpful advice. sometimes I even follow it usually to great benefit did you know that the little face on the fuji does not mean "macro" like on the olympus, it means setting. thats where I set the camera to sports to get less of the blurry pics. I din't know that until a helpful member pointed me there.
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