 Stacy Wasmuth |
I'm really struggling here...help!
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robert G. Fately |
Stacy, you're not telling us something here - is it just a matter of underexposure? I mean, if the histogram is off the charts to the left, that's an indication that too many pixels are just too dark. Have you tried using a slower shutter speed? A wider aperture? Like film, digital imaging chips have a limit as to the range of brightness to dark they can capture simultaneously - this is known as the dynamic range. The dynamic range of the human eye is far greater than that of a chip (or film), so perhaps the problem is that things look good to your naked eye but in reality there is simply too great a difference between the brighter and shadowed portions of the subject/scene. Perhaps you could upload a sample image to give us a better idea of the problem.
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Stacy Wasmuth |
Wow, Bob, you're fast! I think you answered me while I was uploading the pics. I'm just starting out here, so I've mostly been using the Program setting. I figured that it would be smarter than me (at this point), and I can still adjust ISO, white balance, etc. Can I still use this setting, or is that the problem? It seems that my photos are consistently underexposed. Oh, and I used spot metering while focusing on the eyes in the examples. Sorry, if this is all useless info - I'm still figuring out what changes influence what stuff! :)
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robert G. Fately |
Well, looking at your example 1, it seems to me that this is a case of dynamic range limitations - that is, the difference between the lit and shadowed parts of the picture are greater than the chip can handle. That you're using spot metering is fine - the boy's lightish skin is close enough to grey card to make for a "proper" exposure - the problem is that only portions of theimage are properly exposed because of the shadowed areas just beeing too dark in comparison to the well-lit zones. Have you tried putting areflector of some kind to the left of the subject (right side of the photo)? Perhaps a simple piece of foam-core covered with aluminum foil will reflect enough of the natural light to brighten up the shadowed side of the subject.
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Stacy Wasmuth |
I haven't tried a reflector yet - I will! I want the effect of the white background actually looking bright white - will that happen if I overcome these dynamic range limitation problems? Is that the same problem with Example 2? So I just need more light on the scene, right? Thanks for helping!
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Karma Wilson |
Don't be afraid of bouncing a fill flash. It will still look natural and really brighten up your photo. If you have a flash you can bounce, try it. Then watch your subjects catchlights POP! Karma
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robert G. Fately |
As Karma said, using a flash for fill light is another possibility. You ned to experiment. Of course, one of the beauties of digital is that you don't "waste money" on test shots. To prevent restless subjects, just get a teddy bear or something and place it where the child is now, and experiment away.
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Stacy Wasmuth |
Thanks Karma! I don't have a fill flash (just the built-in), but would prefer to use that than lugging lights around. I was afraid of getting that "washed out" studio look that some portraits have. Did you use one on your portrait of the child with the popsicle (such a cute photo)? If I bounced one off the ceiling, wouldn't that make some unflattering shadows under the eyes and nose, since the light is coming from above? And - can you or anyone recommend a flash (in the I-don't-have-a-ton-of-money-to-spend-but-want-something-worthwhile range)? Is a 420EX speedlite the same thing - someone recommended that to me. Sorry for all of the questions!! Thanks again, Bob! Great idea to use a teddy bear - my subjects are VERY restless! I'll make a reflector and see if it helps. :)
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Karma Wilson |
Yes, I used fill flash on that picture. It was taken on a shadowed porch actually. However, I just used the on board flash for that. I use bounce flash for my set up shots. The on board flash on the 20D works really well in fill flash situations. I do use the 420EX and I love it when I use it. I have an omnibounce that use with it. If you bounce of the ceiling right it works beautifully. Look on my bio page. That shot was taken with bounced flash and a white sheet. I cleaned up the wrinkles (on the sheet and myself) in photoshop. :-) Karma
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anonymous |
Stacey Check out my studio shots, they are taken with a 420EX speedlite, and definitely don't look washed out. I bounce it of the ceiling. Using ISO400, 1/200 f7.1. But best to obviously reduce ISO down to at least 200, it was working for me around the 1/100 - 1/125 range. Yep, don't use your son, he will get board, I actually have an antique doll I use and she is always very helpful in getting the lighting right! I also use a "Car Visor" ie, the ones you put on your windscreen to block out sun, I sticky tape it to 2 dinning room chairs and paste it about 4.00pm (ie using Deb's description, 12noon being the subject), then I am at 6.00pm, and my speedlite bouncing of the ceiling is about 7.00pm. It is working for me.
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Stacy Wasmuth |
Thanks so much guys - this site is full of helpful people! And I LOVE both of your work, so I'll gladly take your advice! Karma - that popsicle one is great - the fill flash has catch lights instead of the "pin" lights that my on board fill causes. You're right, there aren't harsh shadows. Can you tell me what an omnibounce is?? :) Hi Natalie - so glad to hear from you again. I think I first heard about the 420EX from you! :) Do you have to reduce the ISO because of higher "speed", like film? I think I get it. So if your speedlite bounces at 7 pm, is it facing almost towards your left? If you upgraded, what would you get instead? I agree, kiddos expressions can be missed in precious seconds, and they don't always have the patience that my poor son has built up from all of my pleading! How much faster will it be with rechargeable batteries? Thanks so much - glad you're getting so many clients lately!
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anonymous |
Hi there, Sorry, I didn't explain myself, the speedlite is at my left at about 7pm, but it is facing up to the ceiling, so it bounces down onto the child, sometimes you need to move it a little closer, sometimes a little further away. I am wanting to get some studio lights, not sure what yet, but if you do a search, I have done a post on it before and shown in the post what I might want to get. Yep, if you reduce the ISO to 200, then obviously it is a sharper image, and then the shutter speed is slower too, because regardless, the speedlite always goes off at full power as it isn't connected to the camera, so it can't "talk" to it. In those cases, it just sets itself to full power - which is an advantage for bounce flash, cause then you get heaps of light.
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Stacy Wasmuth |
Uggh, sorry again, but I'm not with you... isn't the speedlite on top of the camera? Why can't it "talk" to it? Oh, do you mean that it doesn't talk like an aperture value does, therefore, it produces the same amount of light no matter what your shutter speed is? Is the shutter speed slower because its reading will be from the ambient light and not the flash? Am I understanding this?? Oh, and can you use the speedlite outside to reduce undereye shadows from really gray days, or does it overpower since obviously you have no ceiling to bounce it off of? Thanks!! :)
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anonymous |
No the flash is set up as a slave, via infared, it is on a tripod - it constantly produces its maximum burst of light. The slower shutter speed is because you have reduced the ISO down 1 stop. If you kept the shutter speed at 1/200 and reduced the ISO to 200 you would have underexposed photos. Yes, I use my speedlite outside to reduce undereye shadows, but not from grey days, from really sunny days when the shadows are harsh. Grey days shouldn't have much shadowing, as the cloud is like a big filter over the sky. As the speedlite is on your camera, both the camera and speedlite work in conjunction with each to give the right amount of light - so it won't overexpose. The flash when mounted on the camera is fully auto and it doesn't matter what setting you use on your camera, the flash will know, and reduce itself accordingly. Nat
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Debby A. Tabb |
Stacy, you will most likly neve get the crisp look I belive you want on white with out someextra light on both ends- Please may I suggest you watch Ebay for some cheep flash units- there are cheep slave devices you can put on them and use one for your back light and another for a fill and then the flash that you use for your camera. these working together should get you that desired look.you need the extra light to brighten the white and fill the shadows. here is a med priced one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7531486216&category=48515&tc=photo&rd=1 and here is the simple slave unit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7531476682&category=64354&tc=photo&rd=1 and then maybe Nat can remember what thread that studio discription was in- or I'll try back later with it. that will help you get even lighting. and learn basic set up. You are getting really good advise but some times we just can't get there with out a tad more equiptment-Oh besides I use these types of units all the time for weddings etc. they come in reall handy. and someone here might know-A photographer who works for me said he saw a flash bulb that you can put in to your living room lamps etc. and it will pop upon exposure these would help- but frankly-I can't call him goofy, because I havn't had time to check yet , but I don't see how and I have never heard of them,but....you may have the time to find out. I do hope this helps, Debby
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Stacy Wasmuth |
Thanks again Natalie. So, can I ask why you can't put the speedlite on your camera indoors? What happens? Now I understand the seven o'clock position. I think I get the underexposure thing now, I didn't realize you were talking about a fixed shutter speed, but looking back, I see! I don't know why my outdoor shots come out "murky" and shadowed as well on gray days - I know those are supposed to be "perfect" for photography. I've tried the on board flash on sunny days, but it either doesn't touch the shadows or it produces too much harsh light and pin lights instead of broad catch lights. Debbie - I really appreciate you taking the time to look up ebay items! I'll have to take my time (and money) slowly, and maybe just start with one lighting thing for now. Would you recommend the 420EX also? I've seen some wonderful photographers who use only "natural" light - I was hoping for that, but it's just not working. So...I guess I'll have to jump in to this lighting thing. :) Thanks guys!!
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Debby A. Tabb |
Stac, I'll have to look into the flash your asking about- for your outside shots - use a polorizer to accent your colors and cut glare(it acts like sunglasses for your camera- for those who don't know yet) and try some reflectors: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7531411464&category=30082&tc=photo I do hope this helps, Debby
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Debby A. Tabb |
Stacy , Here is the thread where I discribed the lighting set up that Nat mentioned. http://www.betterphoto.com/forms/qnaDetail.php?threadID=17534 and then you might take a look at this one also she posted examples: http://www.betterphoto.com/forms/qnaDetail.php?threadID=16984 I hope this helps you out, Debby
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Stacy Wasmuth |
Thanks for your help, Debby. I'll take a look! :)
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anonymous |
Hi Stacey Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. I don't have the internet at home yet, so only have it when I am at my "day job" 3 days a week. I have my speedlite on a tripod to make it easier, if I didn't, everytime I moved my camera or angled it etc, I would have to ensure the speedlite is always pointing up to the ceiling at the angle I want - just not possible. Kids can't sit that still, and I would be lucky to get a dozen shots! Plus doing vertical shots, I would have to fiddle with moving the speedlite around twice as much, even with a flash bracet. With studio shots, you really need to know where your flash is going to fire etc, and keep it there, otherwise you could get faces in shadows etc. Also, I would try a black backdrop too, I am finding that the white backdrops are harder to work with, with such simple lighting. You really need a good lighting system. But as you can see, my photos with the black backdrop are fine and there is a lot of detail. Although my white backdrop photos are a little to be desired... : ( This is the lighting system I am looking at getting. Although I will also check out above, what Deb has suggested! http://www.studiolight.com.au/powermate_details.htm
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Stacy Wasmuth |
Thanks again, Natalie! I understand what you mean now. I figured it would be easier to "take" the speedlite with you, rather than having it on a fixed tripod, but it sounds much easier than adjusting for every camera angle. I thought that white would be easier than black to work with, but apparently I'm wrong there too! I'm going to try all of the suggestions I got - thanks again and wish me luck!! :)
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Pat Wimpee |
Sorry for butting in, but I was reading this thread and now I have a REALLY dumb question to ask you Natalie. I have the canon 20D and a 420 speedlite. Are you saying I can mount the 420 on a tripod set to slave and my cmera flash will trigger the 420? or are you using another speedlite on your camera?
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anonymous |
This is what I am using: http://www.aperturehead.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13 I can't seem to find the actual site for "Joesphotoauction". Maybe he doesn't do them any more. I have similar problems to what the person said in the article, but still love using it. This is also something similar, looks like a better brand, nice little case too: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7533409544&category=30086&ssPageName=WD1V&rd=1
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Pat Wimpee |
Thanks for your help Natalie. I'll definately check that link out.
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