 Lisa Marie Jones |
How to win when most photos are manipulated? Hello, I have a question, how can one become a finalist in a contest with so many photos that are not "real" meaning they have been altered? Better Photo seems more like contest of artistry..who can alter there photos the most wins.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Think if you actually counted the "not real" as you call it, to the "real" proportion is being skewed by your dissapointment.
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Julie M. Cwik |
Several people make it into the finalist stage without actually altering their photos at all.
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- Sherry Stricklin Boles Contact Sherry Stricklin Boles Sherry Stricklin Boles's Gallery |
I can see your point, Lisa. I've only been a member for a few months, but when I first started I felt the pressure to try to conform to the contest. I tried different things to try to make my photos more like the contest finalists. What I discovered was that I hated it! I didn't enjoy the photographs at all. So, now I photograph the way I want to and don't worry about the contest. Since the ones I like very rarely win, I see no point trying to be like the winners. I'd rather take pictures like I want and enjoy taking them!
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Samuel Smith |
i kinda agree with sherry and lisa.but gregoroy has a good point.some altering,slight color adjustment,a little manipulation.advantage or disadvantage,film or digital?i checked out the panning section of this website and I was amazed at what I found.they were all blurry and artsy. didn't help me a bit on race cars,truck pulls,aircraft flying,or birds flying.i've never entered a contest so I can't judge. sam
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Bob Cammarata |
Lisa, Don't follow the masses if it violates your principles. Shoot what you like and enjoy what you have created. If your passions are evident in your work they WILL get noticed,...even without the alterations. Bob
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Kerry L. Walker |
Sherry, I applaud you. You should always shoot to please yourself, not someone else. If YOU like what you shot, it is a winner, regardless of what any judge says. Everyone's style is different and everyone's likes and dislikes are different. Lisa, not all images are altered. Kerby just won second place with a beautiful photo of a beautiful child and I don't think it was altered in any way. No all of us alter our photos. I am a film shooter and am so inept at software manipulation that I have no choice but to shoot it the way I see it and print it the way it was shot.
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Kerry L. Walker |
BTW, I've never won either but then I've never entered.
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Andrew Laverghetta |
It's weird because the first picture I ever entered back in August 2004 I think was a finalist. It's my only finalist to date (the flute under the yellow/gold cast). I have also seemed to notice, especially with April's photo contest, that many of the photos are extremely saturated with color. Unless it's, of course, the few black and white or sepia photos. It seems like color is a VERY LARGE factor in deciding winners and finalists. At least last month. I, myself will try to saturate my photos a little more before I enter them. Also, you might check into going to walmart or someplace and buying Adobe Photoshop Elements 3.0. It's not too expensive and it can really add something to pictures that may have been printed a little lower than your expectations.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Is there anybody who dosen't know that Kerry Walker is a "film photographer"?
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Pat Wimpee |
I don't think you should talk about middle-aged bald guys like that :) Sorry I couldn't help myself!
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Kerby Pfrangle |
Lisa, I got a second place for my image called Windy (It the small image you see next to my name) in the contest and I cropped mine because it had a date on it. But other than that there are no alterations. Yes it is possible to win without altering your images. Kerby
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Karma Wilson |
What do you mean by "alter" exactly? I do some color correcting, sharpening, etc... Enough to make the photo the best it can be for sure. But three of my finalists this month required almost no alteration and the one that I did alter a lot was entered in digital darkroom. If color tweaking and sharpening are considered big altering then I'm afraid I'm out of the contest. My camera was designed to take pictures that are digitally processed. Photoshop is my darkroom! Karma
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Bob Cammarata |
Minor tweaks of color saturation, contrast and sharpness are not alteration. These steps could be better described as "enhancement",...and the original has to be pretty darn good to start with. "Alteration" entails adding (or cloning out) key elements within a scene, changing backgrounds to something more appealing than the original, drastic color changes to create something surreal, using your software abilities to correct deficiencies in exposure,...etc. The Contest rules list clearly that all these things are allowed,...as long as the steps used are disclosed.
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Debbie Truesdale |
I don't think making touch ups makes a photo not real. I only have one photo that was a finalist. All I did to it was add contrast and crop. I haven't really played with photoshop that much. I do agree with Bob C. take what you like. I don't really care if I win. (It would be nice) I just like getting comments on my photos and learning from others. It seems to me that there are a lot of professional photographers on this site. I love to look at all the galleries. I get ideas from all of you. Thanks!! Hey Gregory... I didn't know he was a film photographer!! I use both. Debbie
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
He'll tell you again and again and again and again and again.
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BetterPhoto Member |
Hey, the film is so touched up at the lab that the photographer that I worked for pissed of the lab, because they had to do so much to make them perfect.
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Antony Burch |
Lisa, As julie and others have said manipulating your images wont win you anything on its own, I do very little editing with software and try to get it as right as I can in camera, I shoot raw most of the time so if you shoot jpg`s you could say the camera is altering the enhancing the image. have a look at my gallery I have only increased colour saturation, sharpness and cropped a litte to help composition, the 3 finalist images I have not touched also all the flower shots are un edited.
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karenemichaels.com - Karen E. Michaels Contact Karen E. Michaels Karen E. Michaels's Gallery |
Gentle People, I come from the days of using my own darkroom. I manipulated exposure, saturation and color with my own hands and chemicals when I was in a darkroom..........it's called art. Peace, karen e michaels
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
And a case of "if I didn't win, somebody must've cheated"
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Chuck Inglefield |
This is an interesting discussion, but not necessarily a new one. My views about good photography have changed dramtically in the last year in which I have been taking Betterphoto classes. My tastes in photography have also changed over that time. What I consider good photography has changed too. It is completely a matter of personal taste. For example, my girlfriend loves abstract paintings...to me, they look like something a 3rd grader did one day when they were bored in art class and spilled the paints on the canvas. That thinking means I am more concerned with technique than effect. This perfectly describes how my tastes have changed in photography over the last year. I used to be awed by wonderful technique (i.e. sharp focus, good dof and shutter speed choices). Now, after seeing so many wonderful photographs on this website, I find that good technique is really just the price of entry into the creation of a stunning image. And it's also not just as simple as putting something in the right spot using the rule of thirds. It's more about the message, mood, idea or beauty a photograph can bring. It includes the tension or lack of it, the negative space and the positive space, the rhythm and so on. I have no idea how they judge photos on this site, because frankly there are so many amazing ones. I don't know if some of these people are pros or not either (whatever that may mean). All I know is that by looking at all of the photos that have become finalists over the last year, I have greatly improved my ability to "see" a potential photograph that I find compelling. Again, it's something "I" find compelling, not necessarily anyone else. And that's the beauty of it...it doesn't need to be for anyone but me. Now I must admit, I enjoy recieving nice feedback about my photos (who doesn't). Many more of my photos have not been choosen as finalist as those that have. I still like the ones that haven't been picked just as much. I still have them hanging on my wall at home. They are part of me and my vision. But I'll emphasize again that by looking at other good photographs (and there are over 1000 new ones on this website every month)I have learned from others and refined my technique to greater capture the idea/mood I am going after. I learned from how others see...and that is the beauty of this whole place we call betterphoto.com. Winning a contest doesn't make you a better photographer. Learning to see does. Translating what you see through the use of your camera is an exhilirating and challenging art. And since it is an art...it's completely subjective. I don't like abstract paintings or flower photographs...that doesn't mean they aren't good, or don't win photo contests. Frankly, I think it's cool that there are so many categories on this website with which to explore your own personal interests. Now as to the subject of using photo editing software to enhance/change photos. I think that's a personal decision for each person. I shoot RAW format which absolutely requires editing to even start to look like what I saw through my viewfinder (most raw files have low saturation and contrast). I freely admit in my photo descriptions that I will boost saturation/contrast/ remove unwanted elements, etc. I don't think there is a right or wrong on this issue. For example, Ansel Adams was a wonderful photographer, but an even better artist in the darkroom. Imagine what someone with his eye would create with the tools we have available today. One of the things I realize early on last year as I began shooting digital, is that the photographs I liked the most were ones that not only had a good photographer behind the camera, but also had someone who was talented with Photoshop. For that reason, I have spent the last 6 months learning as much about PS as I can. It's my "darkroom". The benefit of processing my own photos with PS, is that now I begin to see potential problems before I shoot and adjust for them before releasing the shutter....meaning actually less PS work in the long run. Either way, for the type of photography that interests me, PS is a must. My feeling is that BP.com is a great place to learn. The contests are a fun way to get some feedback on your photos, by having others see and comment on your work. I may never have another finalist photo...but I know I'm a better photographer than I was a year ago and that I will be even better a year from now because of all the knowledge and experience shared with me from instructors and students on this site. Sorry for the long post. Happy shooting. Chuck
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- Sherry Stricklin Boles Contact Sherry Stricklin Boles Sherry Stricklin Boles's Gallery |
Chuck repeated an interesting point: photography, like all art, is very subjective. (By the way, Chuck...congratulations on your great success in April!!) "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." The way I see it, every photo that makes you (or someone else) happy is already a winner! If you haven't already checked it out, check out this link: http://www.betterphoto.com/forms/QnAdetail.php?threadID=16206 It's a fun link...admiring and comparing our likes! Reading this one can certainly help you focus on some positive... :)
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John A. Lind |
Lisa, Work to get it right in camera. It is so much easier if as much as possible (ideally all of it) is done on the front end. Chuck gave quite a few tips of good advice. Photography and the photographic process is the recording of light. It's light; always think about light, how you want to use it, and how you want to record it to communicate to others aspects of the subject material you find compelling. Regarding Ansel Adams, the biggest things I have learned from his work and how he created what he did: When you arrive at "seeing" . . . the skill of visualizing a 2-D static print that is a slice of time and space from the 3-D dynamic and immersive environment, you'll know it . . . and how you look at the world around you will never be the same. Kerry, -- John Lind
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brigitte stahre |
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Kerry L. Walker |
You did well. It looks like an oil painting.
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brigitte stahre |
thanks kerry, I couldn't let that setting go to waste..
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Sharon Day |
I have 2 first place wins, and 3 second place wins. None of them were "altered" in Photoshop, however, all had basic editing for color, saturation, etc. in PS. www.betterphoto.com?sharond Check out Ant Hill on page 2 top row of my gallery. I had a blast creating that image, and I laughed as I created it as well. I'm sure no one who views it takes it seriously. It isn't intended to be taken seriously. I enjoy capturing images that are fine straight from the camera, but I enjoy working with photoshop equally so you'll see a number of finalists I've entered that have been modified and manipulated by different techniques. I especially enjoy photographing images that require a little bit longer shutter speed to blur movement with subjects such as flowers. Some people don't consider that legitimate photography either, but they are challenging as well as fun and no PS manipulation. It's all about fun! Surely there must be some quote somewhere about taking life too seriously? or I should say photography!
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Rachel Scott-Renouf |
I have lots of photos in my gallery that are not manipulated, but I have quite a few that are too... and since I have been a member here, I have looked at other people's manipulated photo's and learnt such a lot. I spent ages changing a pic yesterday in photoshop and I like the results, although I am sure alot of people will hate it... I will post the original and the edited version just so you can see.... but most of all I really enjoyed doing it! Rachel
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