 Ganesh G |
What exactly is the advantage of manual focus? Hi everyone, I am a 21 year old student and a photo enthusiast. I own a lowly 20 year old Yashica MF-2 autofocus camera. What I have not come to undertand even after going around a lot of photography articles is just WHY photographers use manual focus. I understand zooming, but there are autozoom cameras out there (like my newer Samsung FIne 800 autozoom). What I mean to ask is that since autofocus cameras can focus on almost anything, why is the need to complicate matters with manual focus. Can anyone show me through an example where an autofocus has worse results than a manual focus (under normal conditions, enough ligt, no zoom, stationary subjects)?
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Michael H. Cothran |
First, there is nothing "lowly" about your Yashica. They (Kyocera) are one of the finest camera manufacturers in the world. They have just never made it big in the USA. I can think of 4 times where you would want to turn off the AF, and rely on MF - 1. If your subject (for some reason) was in a corner of the screen, and your AF sensor was in the middle, the AF sensor would try to focus on whatever was in the middle instead of your corner subject. 2. If you are doing macro work, AF sensors often have to search & hunt a lot, while MF allows you to focus on the one specific area quicker. And again, if your area of focus is not within the AF's sensor, it will end up focusing somewhere else. 3. In cases where you are extremely selective in your focus area (particularly when you are shooting long lenses at wide apertures), you are better off using MF to insure that your camera focuses exactly where you want it to rather than where IT wants to. 4. When trying to obtain the maximum depth of field, particularly with wide angle lenses, you must rely on using the "hyper focal" distance in your scene. This means you DO NOT focus the lens per say, but using the scale on your lens ring, you position your near and far subjects you want in focus between the two aperture markings that will allow both to be in focus. Hope this helps. Michael H. Cothran www.mhcphoto.net
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doug Nelson |
Leica still does not make autofocus SLR's or rangefinder cameras. Many high-grade Canon EOS lenses allow full-time manual focus. There must be a reason. Does your autofocus system hunt back and forth for focus in dimly lit situations? In some situations, we want to be very precise about our point of focus. If I am doing a portrait, I want to focus on the eyes, or on an eye. Can I really trust autofocus to do an exact job, especially in fairly dim light? In some situations, it just isn't necessary. In strong light, I set 28's or 24's at f8, set the hyperfocal settings on the distance scale for f8 and don't worry about focus, since it's depth-of-field I'm interested in. I have found autofocus to be unnecessary with the little macro work I've done. In fact, if you do macro, you'd save a lot of money over expensive autofocus lenses and $100 extension tubes by using any of the excellent macro lenses and very cheap extension tubes, and a dedicated SLR body. Would I use autofocus? You betcha, if I shot wildlife or sports for a living, or if I must have the latest and greatest zooms. For what I do, manual focus is fine and has saved me a lot of money.
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Andy |
I can think of another reason for manual focusing - pre focusing. If the subject is moving, you may want to pre focus at a certain point and wait for the subject to reach that point and press the shutter. You can also set up the lens at hyperfocal distance as Michael mentioned above and wait for the subject to enter the 'zone'.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
It's more fun to focus yourself.
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Bob Cammarata |
I think that Gregory's answer is most accurate. The reason many focus, (and expose) manually is because it's fun! And, it can be rewarding when challenges have been met, and results equal or surpass our expectations. Don't get me wrong,...auto-focus has its place. With fast action, many shots would likely be missed without it.
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anonymous |
I prefer autofocus, as my subjects (little children!) move so much, but when I am focusing on babies especially, my camera has a hard time finding some contrast to focus on so I have to switch to manual. I suppose it is good to have both options so you don't look like an idiot trying to focus on a babies foot for 5mins cause the autofocus is have a "bad day!"
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Ganesh G |
Thanks everyone for the replies. I guess this would have been a very easy question for most of you to answer. Thank you again, for clearing my doubts. I do though, think that some of you thought I have a camera that can switch between autofocus and manual focus. LOL, NO. I just have a handheld point and shoot camera. Very old one, as I mentioned. Michael, I agree with you on the quality of the camera. 20 years of surviving the rough treatment ;) is some achievement. And I've never messed up any photos. I meant "lowly" only on the technology front though. Gregory, whoever you are, I am turning into a big fan of yours ! I commented on another thread where you had another typical funny remark(on the spiders). Good to have some humour everywhere. Would any of you care to take a look at my gallery and tell me how can I digitally enhance those photos(or if you dont have anything else to do, can you do it for me so that I can learn)? The real photos were much better, just the scanner I used was pretty messed up ! Thanks again. And I will look forward to being an active participant on this site.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
shoot manual on everything. You'll be better all around for it.
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Ganesh G |
I am thinking of buying the newly launched Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ3 camera. It will be a HUGE haul for me as its very expensive by my standards. But I am seriously thinking of putting some time in to do photography. http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/fz3.html http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz3-review/index.shtml I don't think it has manual focussing option though. But thats the best I can afford now. Anyone here has any negative points about the camera. Something that will stop me from buying it?
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Peter (lukas) Johansen |
In the good old days then manual fokus did simpley give sharper photos. Not so any more. A good autofokus camera can fokus just af well as a manual fokus camera. That is if the motif allovs for autofokus. if you vant to take a picture of say a statue then there is no guarantee that autofokus will vork. The motif is simpley to difficult to autofocus on. The point is that nowadays then autofokus is very good, but sometimesd the seirous photografer prefer manual fokus. Peter
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Ganesh G |
Peter, I am amused by your language. Are you German ?? Thank you Peter and the others for the tips. I have now pretty much got what all of you mean. Can anyone though, put up two photos side-by-side, one taken with a manual focus and the other taken with an autofocus? That youwld put the point across perfectly to me as well as to many other rookies like me. Still, I seem to get the idea that everyone is thinking I am talking about a camera which can shift between autofocus and manual modes. *NO*, I am talking about a hand-held point and shoot autofocus camera(Whew...so many adjectives). So, in that, theres no point of the camera trying to find a suitable focus(or is there?). I always thought that these kind of cameras were preset with just one focus - infinity. Would be great if someone could clear this as well.
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Kerry L. Walker |
A P&S autofucus camera does focus. What you are thinking about is a fixed focus camera. They depend on a small aperature for great DOF to obtain acceptable focus.
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Ganesh G |
So, a Yashica MF-2 would be a fixed focus camera ?
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Kerry L. Walker |
I am not familiar with that model (do have an old Yashicamat TLR). If the lens does not move, it is a fixed focus camera.
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Ganesh G |
Yes, the lens in the Yashica MF-2 doesn't move. So, I guess it must be a fixed focus camera. My other Samsung Fino 800 has a 38-80 autozoom. In that, I find that the lens moves after pressing the shutter button. That must be for focussing, as Kerry said. Still no comparitive photo shots of manual/autofocus shots. [;-)]
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Kerry L. Walker |
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Kerry L. Walker |
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Ganesh G |
Thanks for the effort, Kerry. That photo looks excellent. I understand what you mean to say. The concrete block right in the foreground close to the camera is just as clear as the small bridge far away. Really well done ! This might seem repititive & frustrating, LOL, but I've taken similar photos with my "fixed focus" Yashica MF-2. I bet you could have too. You say that an autofocus would have blurred the foreground. You mean a fixed focus would do that too? Will try to get a photo exactly like that from my camera practically and then tell you about the result ! Cheers
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Kerry L. Walker |
I do not mean a fixed focus camera would blur the foreground. It depends on the aperature. Autofocus would have because it would have focused at the far point since that is where it would have "thought" I wanted to focus. I simply set my aperature at f/16 and set the infinity mark at f/16 on my lens. This is called focusing at hyperfocal distance. Through the viewfinder everything, except the water in the middle ground, looked out of focus, but, due to the great depth of field, everything came out in focus. You may be shooting with a fixed focus camera but you have made some beautiful shots with it! I would like to add that I shoot weddings with a Pentax 645N, an autofocus camera. However, when the bride is walking down the aisle, I switch to manual focus, focus on a pint about 12 feet from me, and fire when they reach that point. It is not easy for an autofocus camera to focus on a moving object with very little contrast - like a whide dress or black tux. I don't want my camera hunting back and forth trying to focus when I am ready to shoot. You only get one chance at a wedding. When everyone is still, I use autofocus.
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Ganesh G |
Hey Kerry, You've gone to great lengths to explain me this thing. Thank you so much for that. I presume you do take a lot of your personal time out to answer beginners like me. But I am sure it'll be worth the effort when some youngster grows up to be a very famous photographer and mentions your name as an inspiration. I fully understood what you have to say now. But I guess it will be SOME more time before I buy my first manual camera. They are simply too expensive. I am looking for a new digital Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ3, which is about $400. Even that is WAY over what I can afford. But I am saving up to buy it. I love the fact that it has a 12X optical zoom though. Thanks for the comments anyway. One thing I would like to ask you is that how did you know I took good photos with my Yashica? Did you see my gallery? If you did, why don't you suggest me some way I could make them better(by slight digital enhancements) and also what I could have done while shootig to make the same shot look better. Remember, I had no focus/zoom/aperture/exposure (and other techie jargon) adjustments at hand. Cheers !! P.S. MY Samsung Fino 800 autofocus zoom camera has the prefocussing option where you can press the shutter halfway down to focus at an object, then move the camera and point to the real action and push it all the way down to take the shot. Would that help in cases of moving objects?
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Kerry L. Walker |
Actually, a fully manual camera is a lot cheaper than what you want to buy, even one with some auto control over the exposure (aperature priority, etc.) With the number of people going digital, there is a lot of good, even great, used equipment on the market. Check out the used department at Adorama or B&H Photo. These are both trustworthy companies. You will be surprised what you can find. I have seen your gallery and I love the photos! I can't suggest any digital enhancements because I don't have any experience doing that. All my photos are as they are shot - no digital work except to scan to upload. Yes, your prefocusing lock will work just fine with moving objects.
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Ganesh G |
Hi Kerry Thanks for the compliment on my gallery. Its pleaseing to not that you've liked my casual photos that were taken without any intent of shooting professionally. I have one question though. Do the sites that you mentioned, ship to India? Also, do you have any idea about the export duty etc. that they might add to the price?
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Kerry L. Walker |
That I cannot answer. Just email them and ask.
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Ganesh G |
Doing that now !
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Ganesh G |
How much time would it take a person to actually get the hang of all the manual controls?
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Mike Johansen |
Hello - I've followed this thread with interest and amusement, since no one's given the REAL reason for auto focus: OLDer AGE and BAD EYES! Folks, just can't see like I could in the 'ol days. That's why! Best regards, mike
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Kerry L. Walker |
Hey Mike! I resemble that remark! Ganesh, I really can't tell you how long it takes to get the hang of manual controls because, when I started in photography, that was all we had. I believe that someone who really wants to learn it can do so fairly quickly. The hardest thing to learn is when to disagree with your meter, knowing when it is wrong.
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Ganesh G |
LOL Mike, Who cares for age as long as the heart is young !! LOL, but well said. I have specs too ! Kerry, OK. Suggest me a good manual camera that comes with all the control gizmos. Also, how much ( in X ) is the zoom allowed by these cameras. How much would it cost roughly?
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Kerry L. Walker |
There are quite a few choices out there. Probably the best choice, without paying a fortune for a Leica or Contax RTSIII, is the Nikon FM-3A. It will cost you about $500.00 US, plus the lens. This camera is built for professional use, all metal body, etc. Assuming you want to go less expensive, I suggest the Pentax ZXM. It is manual focus with all the autoexposure controls you need, plus manual control. You can get it for about $230.00 US with a 28-90 zoom lens.
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Ganesh G |
Thanks Kerry. Will look for these online immediately. How much is the 28-90 zoom roughly equivalent in the "X" terms thats used for digicams?
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Kerry L. Walker |
It is equal to about 18-60 in a digicam. Don't forget though, you can change the lenses on an SLR so you can get a zoom to fit any need.
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Kerry L. Walker |
Ganesh, I would like to add one comment. Don't rule out an autofocus camera entirely. Most autofocus cameras allow you to focus manually as well. Just make sure the lens you buy has that option.
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Ganesh G |
Thanks Kerry, for all the effort. I am sure there will be a number of other people who might have benefited from this discussion of ours. Just thought of buying the Panasonic FZ-10 instead of the FZ-3 as it has manual focus I believe. I am a regular visitor of Betterphoto now [:-D]
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Carey Beveridge |
Regarding how long it would take to learn manual focus, I just finished a short course on photography with SLR cameras. Until the course I had only ever used a point and shoot. I'm now using my dad's fully manual camera and it took one class to learn about aperture and shutter, and a photo shoot to get familiar with the controls. Of course, learning how to be really good with it takes a lot more time and practice!
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Ganesh G |
Great to hear that Carey. I have just changed my wishlist from the Panasonic Lumix FZ3 to the Panasonic Lumix FZ10. It has manual focussing. Lets see how I get on. BTW, how old are you Carey ?
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Carey Beveridge |
LOL. A lady never reveals her age!
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Kerry L. Walker |
Oh why not? I'm a guy and I don't mind admitting that I'm 29 - and have been for the last 25 years!
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Carey Beveridge |
Because it's fun! :-) And a little mystery never hurt anyone. Let's just say I'm old enough to drink and drive but I always get asked for ID anyway...
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Ganesh G |
Carey, you are a LADY?? Sorry then. I've heard about the lady/age syndrome... [;-)] Sorry for asking ! Dont tell me how old you are. Tell me how YOUNG you are....like Kerry here just did. Way to go Kerry ! That means you are just 8 years older than me (25 years ago!). Cheers !
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Carey Beveridge |
I'm young enough to learn new things like photography :-). Which of course means nothing because I hope I will still want to learn new things when I'm 80. May I ask why you are so curious to know?
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Ganesh G |
Yes Carey, you may definitely ask that. LOL, I am curious just because I was starting to think that ALL the people on this site are seasoned veterans. I got the idea as I've been reading around on a lot of QnA and other discussions. It seemed to me that all these people have a lot of experience. So, I was just amused to find a young newcomer like me here !! Of course, you still know more than me ! Why...you worried ?
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Uyen |
Hi Ganesh. I can point you to a specific case where manual focus worked better for me... In my gallery, for the shot called "Window on Minneapolis," I switched to manual so I could get the focus on the windowpane because my autofocus kept shifting to focus the objects in the distance behind the window. Also, I when do macro work, the autofocus on my lens just isn't good enough to do what I want, so I often use manual for that purpose too.
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Ganesh G |
Thanks Uyen for the answer. I was reading an article on this site (or probably some other one, I don't remember). I read about f-stop. I understood totally what it meant and where it would be used. But, now whats the difference between focussing on a close object and setting the f-stop to a good value for the close object? Will I need to do both to get a good picture (with the close object in focus)? I mean, if I set the f-stop to a short value and focus on the window pane(as Uyen says), the photo would have blurred a lot of whats behind the window pane. What though, would happen if I set the f-stop to a short value and focus at a large distance?
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Carey Beveridge |
Do you mean, what happens if you focus on the objects in the distance instead? Well the objects behind the window would be in focus and the window frame would be all blurry.
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Kerry L. Walker |
Carey, Ganesh just thought we were all a bunch of old coots! Carey is young and Kerry is old. LOL Ganesh, if you are asking about depth of field, it increases with the decrease in the size of the f stop. However, it also increases the further out you focus. So, if you focus on a near object with a large aperature, you have a shallow depth of field. If you focus on a distant object with a large aperature, you will get a deeper depth of field, but the near objects will still be out of focus. Using a small aperature, if you focus on a near object, you will get a greater depth of field but things in the far background will still be out of focus. Using a small aperature and focusing in the distance, things in the foreground will be more likely to be in focus. This should get everyone completely confused, but if you try it it will become clear.
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Ganesh G |
Thanks for the explanation Kerry ! Frankly speaking, at first glance, I was pretty much stumped. Looked confusing. So I've copy-pasted it onto a safe place and I am going to read it carefully when I go offline. Thanks a lot. Carey, what you are saying is correct. But I was actually asking the reslt of a "COMBINATION" of the focus and the depth-of-field settings. Kerry seems to have answered that, but I will have to read it again to understand !!
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Ganesh G |
Thanks for the explanation Kerry ! Frankly speaking, at first glance, I was pretty much stumped. Looked confusing. So I've copy-pasted it onto a safe place and I am going to read it carefully when I go offline. Thanks a lot. Carey, what you are saying is correct. But I was actually asking the reslt of a "COMBINATION" of the focus and the depth-of-field settings. Kerry seems to have answered that, but I will have to read it again to understand !!
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Ganesh G |
Thanks for the explanation Kerry ! Frankly speaking, at first glance, I was pretty much stumped. Looked confusing. So I've copy-pasted it onto a safe place and I am going to read it carefully when I go offline. Thanks a lot. Carey, what you are saying is correct. But I was actually asking the reslt of a "COMBINATION" of the focus and the depth-of-field settings. Kerry seems to have answered that, but I will have to read it again to understand !!
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