 Josh A. Friedman |
Printer vs. Printing Service? Which Printer? I'm going to be exhibiting (and hopefully selling) some photos at an arts and crafts fair in a few weeks, and I am hoping to do a bit of this in the future. I am debating whether to use an on-line printing service (such as MPIX) or buying a printer (i.e. one that can print up to 16X24). Any suggestions and feedback would be much appreciated. Does anyone have a particular printer model that they really like?
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doug Nelson |
I am butting my head against these issues, too. If you need larger than 8 x 10, the cost rises considerably. Also, the printer will never show colors as they appear on your screen. You will need a high-quality calibratable monitor and a calibrating system. Paper larger than 8 x 10 and ink are very expensive. Have a printing service do your printing until you work out these details. Among Epson, HP and Canon, look at real prints from your own digital files. Don't buy in haste.
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Lynn R. Powers |
Josh: I recommend that initially you start selling your photos by sending them out to be made. In this way you can see if your sales are great enough to justify purchasing a larger printer. The extra cost will have to be born by you or added onto the print in order to make a profit. Remember that the cost of mounting and framing add cost also and I charge 10% over my costs in addition to what I charge for my prints. Prices that you set will vary to what the market will bear in your area. If I lived in Beverly Hills, CA, I could charge 3X what I can in the NW corner of Washington State. Printers: Make sure that you purchase that the printer that uses pigment ink and NOT dye inks. They are more expensive but the photos will last long after you are gone from this Earth. Also they have a better look to them. Purchase your paper for the 16x24 inch photos in rolls to save money. You can purchase smaller sizes in 50-100 sheet packages to save money. As long as they are stored properly there is not an expiration date. Fine art paper is very expensive. I have found that Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl to give the best color for my Canon i9900 printer My local processor uses it for people that prefer it as well as continuing to use it for other people that do not specify a special paper if the roll is already on their printer. They use Epson printers up to 44" wide. I do prefer Epson papers for matte prints. I believe Epson makes 3 printers in that size range. The most expensive is designed more for commercial use and is quite expensive. For your use I would recommend the one just below that. I found Epson printers notoriously slow. Canon makes 2 printers at that size. The iPF5800 uses pigment inks and is the better of the two and has more capabilities. (My choice if I could justify it) It will also take a larger variety of papers. The i580 is the same size that uses dye inks and does not have the extra features. Canon printers are fast printers. Currently, I would not consider an HP printer but their smaller printers do put out some fine prints. Inks: Per cartridge they are more expensive. However, the cartridges have 10x the amount of ink. Currently, it cost me $1.10 per ml, 13ml per cartridge for dye ink. Cartridges that are used in the iPF 5800, 135ml of pigment ink cost $0.58 per ml. Doug mentioned being unable to match colors. I used a Dell Inspiron laptop without any difficulties. I just purchased an iMac and it took me two minutes to get the color correction needed without even using any calibration tools. I am definitely NOT a computer geek. The difference in the detail is what will be noticed most. When you view on your computer screen it is the same as looking at a slide. Paper does not let light to shine through the image and some small details may be missing in the dark areas. The same thing happened when slides were printed even when using Cibachrome. Unless you have a full-frame camera, your photos should be uprezzed for 16x24" prints. This is where MPIX and others make it worth using them instead of doing it yourself - unless you know how to do this rapidly. The last thing you need to determine if you can justify the extra initial outlay of money is the frequency of use. Printers HATE not being used at least for a half dozen prints per week. I was without a computer for over a month. I made five 8x10" prints of the same photo. The fifth one was perfect. Best of Luck Lynn
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Lynn R. Powers |
I was afraid that I had gone beyond my 2500 characters. :-) Fine art paper is very expensive. I have found that Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl to give the best color for my Canon i9900 printer My local processor uses it for people that prefer it as well as continuing to use it for other people that do not specify a special paper if the roll is already on their printer. They use Epson printers up to 44" wide. I do prefer Epson papers for matte prints. I believe Epson makes 3 printers in that size range. The most expensive is designed more for commercial use and is quite expensive. For your use I would recommend the one just below that. I found Epson printers notoriously slow. Canon makes 2 printers at that size. The iPF5800 uses pigment inks and is the better of the two and has more capabilities. (My choice if I could justify it) It will also take a larger variety of papers. Inks: Per cartridge they are more expensive. However the cartridges have 10x the amount of ink. Currently it cost me $1.10 per ml, 13ml per cartridge for dye ink. Cartridges that are used in the iPF 5800, 135ml of pigment ink cost $0.58 per ml. (purchase at B+W for best prices) Doug mentioned being unable to match colors. I used a Dell inspirion laptop without any difficulties. I just purchased an iMac and it took me two minutes to get the color correction needed without even using any calibration tools. I am definitely NOT a computer geek. The difference in the detail is what will be noticed most. When you view on your computer screen it is the same as looking at a slide. Paper does not let light to shine through the image and some small details may be missing in the dark areas. The same thing happened when slides were printed even when using Cibachrome. Unless you have a full frame camera your photos should be uprezzed for 16x24" prints. This is where MPix and others make it worth using them instead of doing it yourself. Unless you know how to do this rapidly. The last thing you need to determine if you can justify the extra initial outlay of money is the frequency of use. Best of Luck
PS: in my first reply I mentioned 100 sheets of color paper for $100. That was for 8x10" paper not 13x19" which they did not make then.
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Josh A. Friedman |
Lynn & Doug - Thanks very much for the suggestions. That's extremely helpful. Josh
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Richard Lynch |
A somewhat different take on this: Find a service you trust and use it. I am a former pre-press technician and I don't even own a printer. My reasoning is that maintaining knowledge of that expertise and getting the equipment I would want to use is far more expensive than making prints at a service. It is true that each individual print costs more, but I cannot negate the cost of the printer and my time and maintenance. Instead of working on more images, I am caught at the printer running through sheets, calibrating and testing, when a service will do this all for me. The cost of the printer is one most people leave out of their calculations. Services you use should have leading edge technologies. Machines costing $10,000 to $100,000 are not those you will buy for your home or even for your business unless your volume is very high. The $100,000 printer will do things that your $1000 home printer is incapable of. Using a service I do not have to maintain various paper stocks, and always have flexibility in my options for output. If I am in a business where I rent by the sq. ft., I don't need to relegate a portion of that to my printer stock and supplies. I also do not have to maintain cropping equipment, and expensive printer calibration devices. Depending on what you do the home printing option may be viable. But for me I stick with the service and end up printing what I need for decidedly less...The best of both worlds. Richard Lynch
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Richard Lynch |
PS - MPIX may be a fine service, but you may want to look into a pro photo printing service in your area. It will be more personable and educational.
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Josh A. Friedman |
Hi Richard. Thanks very much for the input. That sounds like a sensible, pragmatic approach. Right now I'm leaning towards using a printing service (probably MPIX) for most of my larger images, & using my small Epson printer for the smaller images (i.e. 6X9). I think that I'll put the purchase of a larger printer on hold. Thanks again. Josh
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Ellen L. Zaslaw |
I would suggest the Epson 4880 HANDS DOWN. The image will reflect your monitor perfectly so there will be no surprises. You can use roll paper on this one and setting up is very easy. I believe there might be a very nice rebate until the end of October. The quality is staggering and the ink cartridges are huge and yield a lot of images. Yes, they are costly to replace, but if your work is of quality and you're serious about selling it, they will pay for themselves many times over.
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Josh A. Friedman |
Hi Ellen - Thanks for the input. I've got a lot to think about -- I'm not sure how much I'll be doing (art fairs, etc.) & whether it would be cost-effective to purchase a printer. Josh
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Richard Lynch |
Ellen, How many prints have you made with it that you have sold? Joshua would probably need an idea of how long an investment like that would take to pay for itself to see if it would work for him. "no surprises" will depend on your color management, monitor calibration and system setup...It isn't all in the printer. My guess is you have a good color management process in place. Richard
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Steven Irwin |
Ellen, I have been using an HP Photosmart 8750 for several years. It is called a professional photo printer. It will print up to 13x19, I think. The quality has been excellent in my opinion. When I purchased it, the retail price was $499. I actually got it for $299 on sale. I just saw a new one on E-bay. I do not know if HP has discontinued this model yet or maybe has a replacement/upgrade for it. One really good thing about this printer; when you replace the ink, it also replaces the printhead. So, you basically get a new printer each time you run out of ink!! Sweet!! Steve
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Ellen L. Zaslaw |
Richard, I guess I assumed too much. I'm thinking that anyone who is serious about a business and doing their own printing knows they have to calibrate their monitor and load their printer with the appropriate paper profiles. I use Photoshop to manage my colors and leave it there unless I'm doing black and white. I let the printer manage my black and white. It seems to work better that way. I only sell my prints sporadically, but ONE job, wedding or otherwise pays for this magnificent machine, so for me, after I read the reviews and saw prints from the Epson, there was nothing to think about.
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Ellen L. Zaslaw |
Steve, Sounds like a great printer. I mentioned the 4880 because it goes as large as Joshua mentioned. I believe he will probably need a printer that takes a paper roll to go 16x24.
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Beth Verser |
I use Millers Professional Lab at Millerslab.com if you need many prints this is the way to go they have lots to offer and they don't charge shipping
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Lois Wilkes |
Joshua, If you go for outside printing, take a look at iprintfromhome.com. They have always done a great job for me and have a fabulous metallic print that I can't do at home.
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