 Diane Dupuis |
This month's contest finalists OK - I have a quick question. I was wondering, how come for the June 2004 contest there are only 305 finalists chosen. There were over 14,000 pictures entered! If you look at the pattern over the last few months, there were: 490, 813!, 574, 567 and 566 finalists in the past 5 months! I can't believe there were not another 200 deserving pictures in the June contest! I doesn't cost anything to post more finalists, but it does encourage budding photographers. I know you guys were running late this month, but it doesn't seem normal... Any explanation?
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- Mette Vendelboe Allison Contact Mette Vendelboe Allison Mette Vendelboe Allison 's Gallery |
I sure would like to know as well!!
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Audrea Telkamp |
How did you know the number of finalists for June? I cannot find any info on the June finalists. Evidently I am missing something here - could someone fill me in?
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Thomas |
Diane, Maybe they are not done yet! That is maybe also the reason why it is not officially posted yet? Thomas
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Nancy Grace Chen |
I suppose that could be possible, but I've never heard of them posting more after they email the finalists to notify them that they are a finalist. Also, they usually don't post the links to the finalists publicly till they announce the final winners. Here's the link to the finalists: http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/dynoGall2.php?catID=3880
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Damian P. Gadal |
I still think that perhaps they should get rid of the contest...
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
I see more and more how ISP makes so much money.
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Audrea Telkamp |
I think someone needs to give Gregory a great big hug today!
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Diane Dupuis |
OK - thanks for your answers, but I'm not sure I understand Damian or Gregory's comments! I'm not saying there shouldn't be a contest. Not at all. I think BP knows that the contest brings thousands of people to their site. Greg- what do you mean? And LOL Audrea. Don't we all need a hug every day?
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Frank P. Rebiejo |
I still haven't gotten an email with the contest results. Don't know who won what and can't find anything on the website with info on the contest for June. I have many photos entered for June and am completely in the dark. The reason why I use BP is for the contests and I feel I'm being left out. Can anyone tell me how to get ahold of BP for the information I have been waiting for for so long? Frank
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Steven Gunnerson |
Boy Diana, ever since I saw your post yesterday your observation and question have been on my mind. It’s also been interesting to read the various other comments posted by others. In regard to Damian’s comment, I would think that getting rid of the contest would deal a serious, if not the death, blow to this website. I’d be willing to guess that this website’s popularity is mainly due to having a contest. No contest equals far less traffic, decreased photography book and class revenue and as a result far less being offered. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad (even though I don’t think the contest is bad at all). Gregory’s comment is also interesting to think about. Sure, people desire some sort of recognition for their efforts, especially where art is concerned. Of course some people just want the recognition for recognition’s sake. However, a lot of others (like Diana here) use that recognition as tool to try and better their skills. That’s what makes ISP and those that defend them so offensive. It’s a fraud and let down to any of the “contestants” looking for more then just praise for self-validation. If you do the math… ISP makes everyone a winner (or darn near everyone, I believe), but BP even in the month they had 813 finalists was recognizing far less then 1% as being worthy of their coveted finalist award. You can hardly compare the two. I mean, even to get 1% they would have had to make 1,400 finalists if the 14,000 entry figure is correct. Back to Diana’s comment though… She probably believes, as I do and most others that participate in the contest, that here we find the opposite of ISP, a website of significant value to amateur and professional photographers a like. Like many others here, I’m new to photography (beyond just taking snapshots that is) and I look to the help me provides in the way of example, praise, criticism and awards. One suggestion that I have is that maybe a voting system that incorporates the members, not just the judges would be preferable. As I understand it, the number of BP judges is rather small. Now let’s say a few of them are on vacation, or otherwise unavailable, I should think that this would place a rather large burden on any of the judges that are still around. Perhaps maybe the cause of why the results are coming in late this month. Now, if they were to have member vote, effectively pre-screening the entries for them, perhaps this would lessen the amount of photographs they would need to consider… Also, no matter how good your judges are, there is always a certain amount of personal preference tainting your results. The smaller the group of judges the more their personal preference becomes apparent. Looking over this month’s small amount of finalists shows a whole let less variety in photograph style then if you were to look at some of the previous month’s winners. Well anyway, this is my two cents worth and coming from a newbie perhaps I’ve got some things wrong. If so, please excuse me.
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Frank P. Rebiejo |
Steven, were you notified and did you get a chance to review the results for the June contest? Because I never received an email and have no idea what's going on. It sounds like the finalists were notified, is this correct? I use BP for the contest and I feel like I'm being left out. Thanks, Frank
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Steven Gunnerson |
Isn't funny how your mind decides to wait until just after you hit the submit button to tell you that you messed up :o) O.K. so it's pretty obvious that I'm not the best at math. The percentages should be "less then 6%" and "1,400 = 10%", but the point is still valid.
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Steven Gunnerson |
Hi Frank, No I'm not a winner this month... but thats o.k. cause I'm just getting started and didn't submit that many. But anyway, I found a link in this forum that shows who the finalists were: http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/dynoGall2.php?catID=3880 I hope you are amoung them.
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Frank P. Rebiejo |
Hi Steven, I've tried this link seven times and I guess I don't know how to use it coz The web is not finding it for me. Can you help me with how to use it? Frank
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Steven Gunnerson |
Sure Frank, I have to copy the text and paste it into the address line of my browser, then hit enter. Is that what you are doing?
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Frank P. Rebiejo |
Steven, I have been typing it into the address line on my browser. Apparently that's not correct. Frank
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Steven Gunnerson |
Hmmm, o.k. I just put a clickable link on a webpage try going here: http://www.vwsc.com/frank.html
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Diane Dupuis |
Hi Frank and Steven! Frank - the bad news is that if you had a finalist you would have received an e-mail about it on Friday. The link from the BP site probably won't be up until tomorrow - seeing it is the weekend... But the above link should work - try cutting and pasting instead of typing it... Steven you make several good points. You're not the first to suggest that regular BPers help with the judging. Re: ISP - now I think I get it (I thought he meant internet service provider which didn't make any senseat all). If he means International Society of Photographers, the picture.com fraud where every picture entered gets into the book that you have to buy, then I don't know how he can compare them. I guess he's trying to say that I'm begging for the recognition and would buy my way into the finalists. I find that rather offensive, Greg and I hope that's not what you are implying. What I'm asking is why there was a 40% drop in the number of finalists this month. That's all. Hopefully Jim will get around to this question tomorrow and provide me with an answer.
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Nobu Nagase |
Frank, Here is a clickable link..., try it...should work... http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/dynoGall2.php?catID=3880
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Dale Ann Cubbage |
Well here goes my two cents worth! I think I'm very blessed to have a family friendly community to be a part of that offers all kinds of ways to improve my skills as a photographer that also offers me a FREE contest to participate in. I have a hard time complaining too much about something that is FREE. Diane's question is valid, why the drastic drop in finalist #'s? But I think the amount of posts has increased, putting a lot of added pressure to a small amount of judges. Probably volunteer judges who don't get paid for doing it? Other wise, if there was a large paid staff, we would have to pay for the contest. If we don't stop complaining, they will change it and take away our FREE contest by charging us to participate. Most contests I've checked out with any merit do cost. Can't we all just get along and be happy with the opportunity to be here and enjoy learning from one another and getting to share our work? I for one really enjoy this site and would hate to see it change into I personally couldn't afford! I do think the suggestion to possibly let members vote in the first round or something is a great idea. But like I said, it's free, so I'm not complaining! da
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
They've had 260 finalist before. How many people do you want to be given a finalist tag?
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- Diane Addonizio Contact Diane Addonizio Diane Addonizio's Gallery |
I too am disappointed in the drop in finalists. I feel that there should be a set percentage of finalists. I appreciate the wonderful comments from BP members; but, Let's face it: WE ARE ALL HOPING TO BE AMONG THE FINALISTS! I think things will be better next month since the new catagories have been added.
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
And what percentage is it that you prefer? And since a percentage would mean the larger number of total entrants, the larger number of finalist, if you're still not among the finalist, are you then going to go back to the limit on how many per month that can be entered needing to be raised?
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Steven Gunnerson |
How about this: What if members were allowed to rate each entry on a scale of 1 to 25. Let’s say this is active for 5-10 days. An average could then be assigned to each photograph. Then at the end of the month + 5-10 days the judges could select the photographs with the highest (say) 4,000 averages out of the some odd 14,000 entries. This would effectively weed out 10,000 entries that judges would even need to look at. Since only 500 - 1,000 are going to actually become finalists I think this would negate the “friends” factor and various other forms of cheating. As such, you also benefit from having your entries judged by professional photographers. By judging this way, they could also have winners based solely on member votes. The photograph with the highest average could be considered ‘The Most Popular’ winner. They could also assign winners for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and so on… Additional (and perhaps a little better) assortment of prizes could also be obtained since the judges will have a whole lot more time on their hands :o). This would also have the added bonus of the photographer seeing how much people liked their photograph… very useful information. Since we all have to log on this information can also be kept private.
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Michael Brown |
Has anyone thought that the reason for the lower number of finalists could possibly be this, ..... that with the ever increasing number of entrants, that now, the judges "have to be more selective than ever?" Personally, I think that could be a very good reason for it. They have to be, or their involvement with this contest good become even more of a burden for all who judge! Plus, ........ those who enter this contest should be just as selective with their images as the judges who are judging those images! Give them a break!! Just my couple of cents worth! : )
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Audrea Telkamp |
I'd hate to see the finalists limited to a percentage. A finalists should be one because it deserves to be there, not because there is a quota to fill. And I'm sorry Michael, but your "more selective than ever" theory just doesn't fly with me. Have you CAREFULLY examined the finalists and compared them with the non-finalists? Most of the finalists are clearly stunning, winning images - but there are some that seem like someone was just throwing a dart at the screen. I think our judges are overwhelmed and the system needs a little help. I am hoping the new catagories will help allieviate this problem.
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Tina R. Hill |
OH MY GOD!!!! Now I have to say it again...... IF YOU DO NOT LIKE HOW THIS site is JUDGED.....DON'T ENTER! I wasn't a finalist... but you know what??? The winners were better than my photos.... I know that... I learn from it and go on.... Right now I am just trying to get comments on my pictures.. good or bad.... I can't believe all the people who complain... no one is twisting your arm to enter.... Let the BETTER PHOTO PEOPLE do what they want....it is their site and their gift to us. If you don't like it make your own website!
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Tina R. Hill |
Another thing. I would hate to know that my picture won something(when that happens) only because Better Photo had to make their numbers. Maybe the finalist count was down due to the amount of people carelessly entering poor entries. I know we all think our work is the best!!! but not everyone agrees. Just because we have a picture a day doesn't mean we should always enter one... We should really start putting our photos on the Q&A more and getting comments before we enter everything we shoot. We all try new things and sometimes new things are awsome to our eye.. but that doesn't make them winners... if we put them on Q&A first then maybe we can learn from them with out being disapointed when thy do not get recognized in the contest. I have been guilty of this as well so I am not telling anyone to do this anymore than I should myself... This can actually help the contest maintain a higher level of work and then the judges will not be so swamped with too many photos to review.
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Angela K. Wittmer |
I think that all of the finalists are great... I do know that I am going to get myself a digital camera as over 90 percent of the finalists are shooting digital! I think I will increase my chances of getting a finalist position! I think scanning an image decreases clarity which in turn decreases chances of being a finalist. Just my opinion but I do think digital & photoshop have a great advantage here... so lookout camera stores... here I come! Angie :)
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Michael Brown |
Of course the judges are trying to be more selective. Why do you think they lowered the number of entries per month to 10 in the first place? I believe the reason is it was their sincere hope that the members would learn themselves to be more selective, instead of sending in anything and everything under the sun for the contest! To keep everyone happy now by going back to 1 image per day for the contest, and the ever increasing number that is submitted, will make them more selective. If you are ever "truly trying" to become a better photographer, then become a better critique of your own work. And again, .......... just my humble opinion! : )
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Diane Dupuis |
It seems my question has become a breeding place for all kinds of stuff. I'm still hoping Jim will get around to answering my original question.
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Leesa White |
I agree with you Tina. Seems like everyone has a problem with something. I was guilty for awhile entering pictures daily, but now I'm more selective and am trying harder, instead of just showcasing anything. It seems to me, everytime something changes, there's an uproar. Things change. Deal with it. If they don't like it, maybe they should find somewhere else to post photo's. Just my 2 cents! For what they are worth.
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Michael Brown |
I hope you get your answer Diane. Please forgive me, as I probably helped this thread to get off line just a tad from the original question! : ) Mike
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Should how much it cost to post finalist be what determines it, or should it be based on the photographs? If you want 500 selections because it encourages people, what about #501? Should you increase the number just so #501 stays encouraged? Going from 800 to 490 should tell that there isn't a "normal" number of finalist.
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Frank P. Rebiejo |
This morning I finaly got to view the contest results. BP member came to my rescue and created a clickable link for me so I could see the results and this is what BP is all about, the people and new friends you make. His name is Nobi Naqase. he didnt have to do this but he went out of his way to help me and I love it. he is a finalist this month.I think the number of finalists should be up to the judges and we shouldnt complaine. If you think about the number of photos you take to get (1) good contest caliber photo then you would understant why so many photos are past by.we have to accept what the judges do ,learn from it and move on to the next contest. sometimes I dont agree with te judges but im not a judge nor am I a pro, if I were I would have some photo in the finalist group. I know with each new contest I get more judgemental of my own photos and throw out what I thought were ok and now know werent good enough. I think we should let the judges do there job and take what they give us, maby only 350 out of 14000 were good enough!!1
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Lauri M. Baker |
I recall seeing some amazing photography submitted that isn't included in the finalists, and then some that were chosen are what I would call mediocre at best. So anyone complaining about the judging, you must remember that it's subjective. If yours wasn't chosen, it doesn't mean it wasn't good. It doesn't even mean it wasn't fabulous - it just wasn't chosen by THIS ONE CONTEST, whose winners are chosen based on the personal taste of the judges.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher  Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
If you think your shot was overlooked, resubmit it...next month or next year. Sometimes there just was something outstanding in your category in the same month. I've resubmitted some that have made finals on the second or even third time through. So it can happen. Lots of great shots are passed up every month. You just have to suck it up and resubmit later.
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Susan L. Vasquez |
I'm new here so I came over here hoping to answer my own questions regarding the contests, this way I don't have to bother staff with my questions. I am shocked that anyone would even complain about the number or finalists or winners. I am sure that as photographers they are quite able to choose as they see fit. It is a free contest that shouldn't go away. It encourages and helps everyone to improve their skills. Competition will almost always make people want to do better. So if you haven't been a finalists, or a winner...keep trying!! It is fun!
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David A. Wilson |
I may be blind, but isn't the link your giving out June 2004 finalists. I think it's 05. Ok Just wondering
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Diane Dupuis |
You're reading a year old question!
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David A. Wilson |
Ahh so im not blind just a idiot
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Susan L. Vasquez |
LOL and I'm the idiot keeping a year old thread alive :) Guess I should have asked my questions anyways!
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Nobu Nagase |
No sweat, Susan... ...the issue is of some interest to some even a year later... the same/similar question comes up every now an then... I'm not sure if there will be a clear cut answer to it... imho, we usually don't know what goes on behind the scene...
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