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Cool waters

© Kristin Duff

Cool waters

Uploaded: July 27, 2012

Description

Exif: F Number: 36, Exposure Bias Value: -0.67, ExposureTime: 16/10 seconds, Flash: did not fire, compulsory flash mode, ISO: 200, White balance: Manual white balance, FocalLength: 55.00 mm, Model: Canon EOS REBEL T3i

Comments

Michael Kelly level-classic July 28, 2012

Kristin I like the framing which is an excellent way to portray this type of stream and waterfall. Looks like you got a good shutter speed to give a nice sense of motion here too.

I see a couple problems which you may or may not be able to correct depending on how bad they are. # 1 is the very blown exposure in the highlighted waterfall. If it is not entirely gone a highlight adjustment in RAW may bring some detail back. The other is the very dark shadows especially among the vegetation along the banks of the stream. A shadows adjust would help bring some of this back. #1477456

Kristin Duff July 28, 2012

time to fess up...i don't shoot in RAW, just JPEG...can I still try make the same adjustments? #10248323

Jeff E Jensen July 28, 2012

Yes, you can still do the adjustments, but they won't be as effective.

And, SHOOT RAW! :o)

Nothing to be afraid of, once you do, you'll wonder why you ever shot jpeg. #10248400

Peter W. Marks July 29, 2012

Yes, shoot Raw Kristin! But you just might ask Jeff to expand on his statement that you can still adjust in jpeg. Or do we have to wait for Mr Dale to finish work on his 2000 Japanese images for one of his tutorials? #10248855

Elaine Hessler July 29, 2012

Hi kristin, I agree with the above comments regarding the exposure. I find these types of shots very difficult when you need a slow shutter speed to get the blur of the water, but the sun is shining brightly on the water. A polarizing filter can help with this, but won't help you with the underexposed greenery..... Tough shot. I am making the transition to RAW also.... Would someone mind explaining how the WB info is kept separate in RAW, but compressed in with the other info in a JPEG? Still not getting this. I need to do the experiment that was suggested to shoot a picture in both and try to alter them on the computer to see the difference. Maybe we can compare notes! Pretty scene by the way. #10248952

Debbie E. Payne July 29, 2012

What is the Nike expression: Just Do It! Raw will change your photographic skills in ways you won't believe. I hung on to JPEG for a very long time as well and when I changed to RAW my images improved dramatically. In RAW you have WAY more detail in both the highlights and the shadows that would have helped this image along. In a situation like this, if you have the time, try going back to the same spot later in the day or get up very early and hit it then. In the middle of the day when the sun is harshest is not the best time but you can try GND's (graduated neutral density filters), tripod and a very slow shutter speed along with the lowest ISO you can deal with. If all else fails and the sun is still too bright and the shadows too dark, then look for details, the macro shots, the shots you can, with diffusers control the environment with. #10248998

Kristin Duff July 29, 2012

Just to let you know I did use a ND filter and I tripod. ISO was at 100, but you are right it was 2 in the afternoon and we shot what we could. Off to try some shots in RAW...wish me luck! #10249050

Michael Kelly level-classic July 29, 2012

Elaine I can't give you a definitive answer, but in general A RAW file contains all the information on the shot that the camera is capable of producing. The main advantage is that your camera probably shoots in 12 or 14 bit and jpeg is an 8 bit file which immediately tosses out 4 or 6 bits of data. That is why Debbie saw what she did with the change to RAW.

Remember that the jpeg image is being processed by an algorithm in the camera which includes things like sharpening where your RAW image will not have those things done to it. That is why it is important to develop a color work flow that includes checking and tweaking all elements. In CS editing can be done in 16 bit where I believe that PSE is still 8 bit. This is why I recommend that, if you can afford it, go to CS. You will get the same jump as you did in moving from jpeg to RAW.

Another thing to remember is that jpeg is not bad and DSLR cameras do a great job in turning out good jpeg photos in most circumstances. You may not see any difference or improvement at first (and may even see a decline untill you develop your work flow), but because you are now working at the limit of your cameras abitlity your overall photography quality should see an improvement. #10249075

Kristin Duff July 29, 2012

thanks Michael, that was a really good explanation. when we talked on the phone, did you tell me you were a PC guy or a Mac guy, as I might need help getting RAW files to a workable place on my MAC. thanks #10249130

Peter W. Marks July 29, 2012

Mike, PSE9 and PSE10 use 16bit and is one heck of a lot cheaper than PS. #10249187

Elaine Hessler July 29, 2012

Hi-I have a Mac and RAW files import into it just fine. Surprisingly, and not.... You should be able to look at the info on the upper right and see JPEG or RAW. Let me know what you find out! I need a little push myself.... #10249188

Teresa H. Hunt July 29, 2012

Kristin, this is a beautiful place. With the sun where it is this is a tough exposure. I think you did a pretty good job, but like the others said a re-shoot at a different time of day would be good.

I shoot RAW and save all my files on a seperate drive than my operating drive. And with RAW files, you won't be able to see the photo thumbnail unless you're computer is fancier than mine. I have to upload everything into Lightroom before I can see how my pictures turned out. :) #10249553

Kristin Duff July 29, 2012

Tonight I am frustrated beyond words. The more I learn, the less I know. I tried shooting RAW today but cannot download them into my computer...just says unreadable file. I do not have enough computer knowledge to even know where to go to get help. I need a tutor to sit down with me. I am sure once I am shown how, I will be able to get started...any ideas where to find a tutor... maybe a young photography student? #10249593

Kristin Duff July 29, 2012

lightened the shadows #10249710

Kristin Duff July 29, 2012

obviously hit the submit button twice #10249711

Kristin Duff July 29, 2012

cool waters again with more contrast #10249716

Dale Hardin July 29, 2012

Kristin, you probably can load the raw files, but the viewer you are using may not have that extension type in it's list. If you can't find a tutor, just go on the web and ask how to display the type extension your raw files use, on your type program. You'll find the answer straight away.

In the mean time you can open your jpeg files in the raw editor of PSE and gain a bit more control than you now have. Simply go to file/open as, and select raw (It's the second choice on the dropdown list) #10249735

Stephen Shoff July 29, 2012

Kristen -- some would call that frustration the beginning of wisdom. The more we learn, the more aware we become of how much we don't know.

This is a delightful scene and you've captured it well compositionally. Yes, some highlights seem to be blown, and you would have more capability for recovering that detail working with the raw file. You could also have more overall capability for maintaining tonal gradients in general if you started with 16-bit files [that have 12-14 bit color depth] rather than 8-bit [the JPEG technical specification] whether or not you are working in Photoshop or Elements.

But even with all that, this is a nice picture and I think was improved some with the lightened shadows.

To your question about "unreadable files", I think you probably got them downloaded to your computer just fine. The "unreadable" files messages probably refers to trying to open the files with a program that expects a more standard format, like JPG or TIFF. You need to open RAW files with either the software that came with your camera on the CD, or with a program like Adobe Camera Raw which can be acquired for free as an extension to Photoshop or Elements. #10249741

Rita K. Connell level-classic July 30, 2012

your edit with contrast really helped this image alot. I love shooting any kind of running water. the placement of the water is very nice. for my two cents I am with debbie hung on to jeg until I join this group several years ago. my photography has only gotten better don't be afraid of raw. #10253143

Kristin Duff July 30, 2012

JPEG to RAW conversion inPSE #10253507

Kristin Duff July 30, 2012

Oh my goodnes...I am so excited I can't stand it! Dale, I think you guys speak a language I don't know but I tried what you said and it did the conversion to RAW in PSE and it really has way more control than I have ever used. YAHOO! #10253525

Elaine Hessler July 31, 2012

So you can convert a jpeg to RAW? Do you get back all the info that you lost in the camera's compression to jpeg? Weird! #10254297

Jeff E Jensen July 31, 2012

You aren't actually converting the file to RAW, so no, you don't get any data back. What it does is gives you access to the RAW tools and therefore, there is more you can do with it. Still not the flexibility and detail that is available if you shoot in RAW, but better. #10254342

Aimee C. Eisaman July 31, 2012

Just remember that you will never know everything there is to know about photography. Time, patience, and practice are what you need. You will get it as long as you keep with it and I'm sure if you need any of us to explain something in 10 different ways we will. I'm not really good with the tech side of photography myself. :~) I think that even with the last post the contrast and loss of data was just too great to make a solid image even though your composition, shutter speed, etc. was good. #10254524

Kristin Duff July 31, 2012

Back to Dale...that worked yesterday but for some reason I can't do it again...on another photo? #10256839

Dale Hardin August 01, 2012

Remember, you have to open PSE first and then use the PSE "file/open as" command. #10257921

Kristin Duff August 01, 2012

Dale, it is still not working...in PSE>file> says open, not open as #10258601

Dale Hardin August 01, 2012

"open as" is right under the "open" :o) #10258622

Kristin Duff August 01, 2012

Dale, my PSE says open and under it it says>open recently edited photos! #10259054

Kristin Duff August 01, 2012

pardon me , under open it says open recently edited file! #10259061

Dale Hardin August 01, 2012

Here is what I get. #10259257

Kristin Duff August 01, 2012

Nope, I don't have that option and I have no idea how I did it the first time. I have gone back and done every combination possible...doesn't work. #10259268

Dale Hardin August 02, 2012

That is probably because of a setting in the preferences dialog. Go to edit/preferences/file saving and make sure you do not have "save over original" selected. If you do, the "save as" will not display. Select one of the other options. #10259893

Kristin Duff August 02, 2012

On first save>ask if original. Append file extension>Never. that is how preferences is set up. should something else be changed? #10259901

Dale Hardin August 02, 2012

That should work. I'm out of options. You'll have to call support I guess. It appears that version 10 is a bit different in that regard from version 9. #10259923

Kristin Duff August 02, 2012

Thanks Buddy...I will work on it next week in Vancouver with my Mac geek friend! #10259957

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