 Debbie Crowe |
Lighting Equipment: What Wattage? I am in the process of trying to set up an 8 x 12 room in my house to take portraits and just getting ready to order the backdrops and lighting. I see wattage for 1800 and up. How would I know what I needed for that size room? I am hoping to find a lighting kit that is not too terribly expensive to start off but am lost on the wattage size for this room. It seems that most kits come with 3 lights. There is one window but it will be covered. Thank you!
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Debbie, There are several different types of light used for portraiture, and though they often discuss wattage with these pieces of equipment, the meaning is not always interchangeable. That makes things more difficult. For instance, if you choose to get strobes, which is a very good idea, the lights are measured in watt-seconds. This is because the lights only have a duration of about 1/1000th of a second, so a regular wattage rating would be meaningless. These lights are good because they don’t produce a lot of heat and because they stop action. I generally suggest that my students get a 600 watt-second light, and then when they need more lighting get a couple of 200 watt-seconds light. Alien Bee and Calumet are both good suppliers, in my experience. Others may differ because of their own experience. These articles here at BetterPhoto may be helpful: www.betterphoto.com/article.php?ID=149 and www.betterphoto.com/article.php?id=195. I also have articles about working with one strobe, making light panels, and making and lighting backgrounds. (Note: See BetterPhoto's articles page.) You can also work with continuous lights. Many people like these because it is easier to see the light you are photographing. The problem is that unless you use very large lights with limited diffusion or a high ISO you will have to work with a tripod, and heat may be a problem. I have some of these lights, in 600 watt power levels, they could be used for portraits, but I wouldn’t do it. These lights are less expensive and they certainly have advantages for learning lighting. There are also fluorescent lights for photography. For several reasons, the biggest of which is color consistency, I don’t like these. You need less watts to get the same light, but the spectrum of the light isn’t continuous. I should also mention that I teach a course here at BetterPhoto in beginning with lights. You can take the class with just clamp lights from Home Depot and learn what you might need for your purposes. I often help students select lights! The class is called Understanding the Tools of Lighting . Thanks, John Siskin
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Debbie Crowe |
John thanks for your very informative response. A fellow here at work has these lights (link below) and was going to let me borrow them - which is why I was askign about wattage. Thanks for taking the time to provide some much info and I will look at your tutorials as well. http://www.smithvictor.com/products/detail.php?prodid=435
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Debbie, Smith-Victor has made some fine continuous lights over many years, I own a few of them. This set is one of their bargain sets. That is not necessarily a problem, but the lights will be hot. Don’t touch the reflectors after they have been on a while. Strobes will do a better job long term, but you can learn a lot from these. Thanks, John Siskin
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Alan N. Marcus |
Hi Debbie, You should know that wattage pertains to electrical consumption not light output. However, we can get a coarse idea and make maybe make a comparison or two. So the question is; how to compare 1800 watts continuous to a strobe i.e. what watt-seconds output must the strobe be? Now for a strobe, shutter speed is negated as the flash is much quicker than the shutter. For continuous we must take the shutter speed into account so let’s use a modest 1/125 second. What follows I derived using published formulas of American Standards Association. 10 watt-seconds is about equal to 1,250 watts constant @ shutter speed of 1/125 14.4 watt-seconds is about equal to 1,800 watts constant @ shutter speed of 1/125 25 watt-seconds is about equal to 3,125 watts constant @ shutter speed of 1/125 Let’s go one further and try and calculate an approximate camera setting. Let’s use the 14.4 watt-seconds as its comparable to 1,800 watts (maybe). Now your work area is 8’x12’. Say your camera is 8 feet from the subject, your main is 6’ and fill is 8’ from subject. You desire a 3:1 typical portrait highlighting. Your camera is set to 100 ISO. Via these formulas with maybe 70% accuracy, (light meter usage is well advised) the guide number for this set-up is about 38. We can calculate the f/number to set on the camera. We divide main-to-subject distance into 38. Answer is 6 divided into 38 = about f/ 4.5. Alan Marcus (boy O’ boy this time its trivial marginal technical gobbledygook)
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Debbie Crowe |
John, thanks for your comments! Alan, I was trying to absorb what you sent me in response. I think I have it in your final paragraph, but was surprised me was the fstop setting. I wanted to purcharse a 50 or 80 mm lens as I am looking for an f stop of 2 or lower. I have read about these lens from my other responses and am convinced this is what I wanted for portraits. are you saying I cannot achieve that type of setting? yes, I associated wattage with output as you say. because to me, a 100 watt bulb puts out much more light than a 40 so would be a natural thought for me. thank you for your time. debbie
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Alan N. Marcus |
Hi again Debbie, Mr. Siskin has made wise recommendations. You should acquire electronic flash (strobe) with a power of 600 watt-seconds. I concur! Years ago hot continuous (tungsten) lighting was essentially replaced in the studio by the strobe. Strobe is bright and does not heat up the subject or the studio and the color of the light simulates daylight. You can start out modestly and add equipment as you progress. These units are packed with features plus you can add accessories as you grow. You can just go to the hardware store and buy simple pin-up lamps. For $50 or less you can buy what you need using ordinary non-photo lamps and fixtures. Whether you buy from the hardware store or expensive tungsten continuous kits, you need to know that they output 97% heat and only 3% light. This heat will make a small room unbearable in minutes. You will need to cool by fan or air conditioning. Additionally the electric consumption (wattage) is high and most private homes are not wired for high electrical loading. You place your home in jeopardy from fire should you overload. The color of the light output of continuous lamps drastically changes with tiny voltage variations. The voltage in your home naturally fluctuates (peek load times etc.) Continuous lamps go ruddier when voltage drops just 1 or 2 volts. The jury is not yet in for fluorescent continuous. They too change color with voltage. Their color is a variable based on maker and lamp age. A modern digital and imaging editing software can manage. They pack more light per watt thus they run cooler. They are likely your best bet if you can’t do strobes at this time. I tried to point out that the 1800 watts you are taking about will only marginally work. For a portrait situation, your lens will be nearly wide open and your shutter slow. This is OK for an adult however; you need more flexibility for kids and groups. This is true because you need to close down the lens aperture and gain depth-of-field for kids and groups. In short you might get by with about three times that wattage. For portraiture we often use near wide open apertures like f/2 or even f/1.4. These large diameter lens setting let in lots of light however they reduce dept-of-field to a very narrow span. Some view the classic portrait as eyes in focus – nose and ears out-of-focus. Well f/2 and f/1.4 are the ticket for this thinking. Follow Mr. John Siskin’s advice to the letter. He has never faltered when it comes to giving sound advice. Alan Marcus
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Alan N. Marcus |
Two additional bits of gobbledygook: For lamp brilliance the unit we should use is the lumen. A 40 watt incandescent outputs 450 lumen so does at 7 watt fluorescent. A 100 watt incandescent outputs 1200 lumen so does 18 watt fluorescent. Now for the portrait lens: While it is not commonly understood, we should choose a lens focal length based on how big the final print (display) will be. Likely this is impossible as we might just make a thumbnail or a gigantic over mantel. Nevertheless, the rule-of-thumb is a lens 2.5 times the diagonal measure of the film or chip utilized. Likely for your camera this works out to about 75mm. using such as lens solves a basic problem in portraiture. Let’s explore: Things close to the camera are reproduced big and things far from the camera are reproduced small (prospective). The danger is; if a short lens is used for portraiture, the photographer has a natural tendency to get in close and compose to fill up the viewfinder (modest wasted space around subject). This act has a danger. Get in close and the nose often is rendered too big and the ears too small. Likely this prospective distortion is so tiny that it largely goes unnoticed. However the subject has self recollections based on his/her view as seen in the make-up mirror or shaving mirror. A short lens plus too close camera-to-subject will yield an image that violates the self recollection view. Thus the subject unaware of the particulars simply says I don’t photograph well. Using a longer lens always forces the photographer to step back. Likely, this more distance prospective will render an image that is closer to the subjects idea of reality. Alan Marcus
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Debbie & Alan First Mr. Marcus thank you for backing up my statements. I really appreciate it. One thing that is not apparent in any of the current comments: one does not use photographic lighting with out modifiers. Just as you would not light your living room by dangling a 100 watt bulb from a wire you would not use a strobe or continuous light with out diffusers, when shooting a portrait. The way I diffuse light most of the time is to bounce a strobe against an umbrella than have the light pass through a light panel. This gives me a light source that is about 4X6 feet. The light is soft and has a very gradual transition from light to shadow. The problem is that I have only 1/8th or less of the light I started with. So I need a fair amount of light to start. Regarding portrait lenses, I too have a couple of comments. In theory what Mr. Marcus describes regarding lens size is true, however as different cultures have different conversational distances some prople will be more comfortable with a shorter lens, they are used to seeing the face closer. I don’t know where you live or the people you want to do portraits of, but the 85mm lens does seem to work well in the dominant cultures of North America. I might use a shorter lens in South America. If you plan to shoot an 85mm lens wide open be aware that that the nose and ear will not be in focus at the same time. While that might seem a very effective look currently you may want to also make images with the whole face in focus. Such images may have more lasting appeal.
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Debbie Crowe |
I have read and reread and finally just printed this all out. You kind folks have provided an ocean of infomation here and I can say I have taken a huge step back on my original thoughts about lighting. I do recall when using the lights I mentioned from my friend, they were unbearably hot and the room was very uncomfortable. Plus I was concerned about this heat because of the children. The bottom line is I have 7 grandchildren and really feel like I can achieve portrait quality prints if I obtain the correct tools. My 8 x 12 room does not appear to be workable given the lens and how far away I should be from the subject according to your responses. I have other rooms I can set up in. I had thought of the 50mm lens, or the 85 as mentioned, and was also told about one in this forum that was a zoom but perfect for portraits. I think it was a Tamaron with constant appeture (something like 85-200 but a much better F stop than I currently have). I only have experience with zoom lens and am comfortable with being able to zoom in and out for focus. I have never tried using just an "85" where I would have to move the tripod back and forth. But I am ready to try anything now and your comments on lighting have been wonderful informative. Thanks again, I am learning very much from you all. Debbie
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Debbie, You are on the road. I do teach a portrait class here at BetterPhoto that might help. I also have an article on setting up a home studio on my website: www.siskinphoto.com/magazine4b.html. Practice is important, I think that both Eric Clapton and Luciano Pavarotti had to practice. Thanks, John Siskin
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Debbie Crowe |
John, thanks and I am looking into the classes you all have mentioned here. One thing I have learned is photography takes a great deal of patience. Part of the learning process is being willing to take the time to learn from professionals like you all here. Thanks again for everything. These forums are a constant education. Debbie
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- Carlton Ward Contact Carlton Ward Carlton Ward's Gallery |
Hi Debbie, The learning curve is fun and the classes at Better Photo are designed to help specific aspects & levels of expertise. I have learned most of my photoshop knowledge from classes here and I had been playing with PS for 4 years before then. I have also taken some technique classes and lately a Corel Painter class. Then you have the BP community that range from experienced professionals to beginners all sharing & helping and even a couple of funny guys to keep things light. There's a lot to learn and I am enjoying the journey. I too am wanting to learn more about strobes, so I think I will sign up for Johns class myself. Also, keep in mind that when lighting a room you may pick up colors from the walls & ceiling that will possibly cast on your subject and you might want to keep that window available as it can provide some very nice lighting by itself.
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Debbie, There are two and a half important things about lighting. First is color. If you have mixed light or a difficult color balance it is tough to make the picture look right later. The second is the size of the light source. A bigger light source is soft and reduces shadows, consider the difference between a sunny day, small light source, and an overcast day, big light source. The overcast day has almost no shadows. The half thing is direction. Where the sun is can make a lot of difference on a sunny day shot, almost no difference on an overcast day, so only half important. There are a lot of details, but these 2.5 things can allow us to control a lot of lighting situations. Carlton! Welcome to Understanding the Tools of Lighting!
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Bruce A. Dart |
Hi Debbie, Alan and John have lots of excellent advice here. There is a gamut of possibilities and as always, it depends on what you want to do. Portraits is a general category and mean different things to different folks. I have made a living for the past 28 years doing portraits of people and yet many of the "portraits" I have seen at BetterPhoto surpass much of what I do. The true portrait depicts the personality of the subject while much I what I do creates a likeness that is flattering. There often is a huge difference. electronic strobes in the long run are the way to go. Of course it can be done otherwise, as with everything in photography. Most of the professional strobes, Alien Bees are a good one (Paul Buff, formerly producing a unit called a White Lightning); Calumet is a good supplier but their price may be slightly higher. Tallyn's in Peoria, ILL is another good one. I have three different kinds of strobes in a four light set-up. Not because I need to, because that's what I have. What you get will depend not only on what how you intend to use it as well as what you can afford. Somewhere in the middle you should be able to find something that works for you. Like cameras, they all work and we each have our own favorites. the basic studio set up consists of four lights, all strobes. You will need a flash meter to measure the output of the strobes but you can get there using the histogram of a digital camera as well. The main or key light is usually one f-stop brighter than the "fill" light to create a pleasing 3:1 portrait lighting ratio. This can be accomplished using the same intensity lights set at "f-stops." Eight feet and 5.6 feet away from the subject, for example. Other accent lights include a background light and a "hair" light. These are commonly used for professional portraits. Can you get by with less and add more later? Of course. One of the top portrait pros, Frank Cricchio of Texas -- honored this month by the Professional Photographers of America for a lifetime of achievement-- has used up to 9 lights for portraits. That is way too complicated for me!! While you want an f-stop that perhaps will throw a background slightly out of focus, you also want a certain amount of things IN focus -- especially if folks are paying you.On the other hand, if you are doing the portrait for fun you have certain artistic license to do whatever you want. In my studio I work at f/8. You have to experiment and discover what works for you and your style. Another factor most folks don't consider in a small room -- and yours at 8x12 is fairly small -- is the color of the walls. Light bounces off and reflects back in a small room, adding what is called "unseen secondary," an extra fill light that can add a half stop more light that you weren't counting on. My first portrait lighting class worked for some 50 hours with just a main light for lighting patterns on the face. There is a much different amount of attention for groups as opposed to individuals. The important thing to remember is that even seasoned pros didn't learn this overnight and that is takes practice and experimenting. While I don't have a BetterPhoto web site, I do have my own at www.photosbydart.com with several hundred portraits there. Good luck.
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Bruce A. Dart |
Debbie, A PS to my previous answer. The 600 watt-seconds is pretty standard for your main and fill lights, although in the studio you may be using them at a very low power. Mine at usually set at 1/16th or 1/32nd power in a small studio. However, sometimes on location I use them at full power. You can always set the power lower but it's nice to have the extra boost when you need it.
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Debbie Crowe |
Bruce, thank you for your detailed response. There are so many things I had not really considered as being that important and as you all noted here, the color of the room will play a big part. I can see by these responses there is just too much I do not know. I certainly want to learn more about the strobe lighting as well. you all have convinced me. I just signed up for the class Understanding the Tools of Lighting. Thanks to everyone! Debbie
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Bruce A. Dart |
Debbie, You are welcome. Sometimes going through the learning curve is an expensive lesson --if we buy equipment that doesn't suit our needs. Sharing with others helps to minimize that. As to the color of the room I remember a close up photo I did years ago of my daughter with a pink flower in the image. There was a color cast from the flower in the tone of her skin. Light reflecting off an object comes in many forms. The reverse is also true. One of the portrait photographers I studied with years ago painted his walls dark and only placed light where he wanted it for dramatic effect. All of a sudden I had much less light than I was used to and very deep shadows became a problem. Just remember that we all had to start somewhere and that this process is a long and continual journey. Not only do we never arrive, we generally don't get there overnight either. Just enjoy the ride!!
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Debbie Crowe |
Well I have decided that room is much too small. I have a nice size family room in my basement and the walls are bright white - at least I will have white walls to work around. I was quite intrigued to learn about all the lighting tecnhiques and possibilities. I was ready to buy my light set up but now I will wait until I take the class and then see if I can figure out what I am doing! My next visit will be back to the forum on lens. I really like the blurred backgrond of the subjects and I think I have some pretty cool shots but the best are always outside it seems. This should be interesting no doubt.
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John H. Siskin |
Thanks Debbie! I am glad you are taking the class! I am just building a new studio. I will be painting the walls middle gray. My last studio had to close because the building was being sold. After twenty five years at the studio, I had hoped they would wait just a few more years to sell. Since this will be a home studio, and a little smaller, I will give up the white walls of my last studio for gray. This will give me more control over my light. I hope you enjoy the class! Thanks, John Siskin
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Debbie Crowe |
John, I am curious - why gray? I have always thought that white gave the most control. I am most interested in finding out what gray walls, and you noted a little smaller studio, will do for light. Debbie
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John H. Siskin |
Hi Debbie, Gray walls are compromise. The problem with white is that the light from your strobes passes the subject and bounces back into the shot. While this fill light is often helpful, and certainly makes you light go further it reduces contrast. In a studio with a 25 foot width, like my last one this isn’t a problem because light disperses over distance. Now I will be in a thinner space and I anticipate problems with reflected light. You could go to black walls, and reduce reflection even more, but it is depressing to work in a black room. If you need more light from the side you can always light a gray wall directly. I will be putting seamless holders up on the sides of the room to hold rolls of white and black seamless paper. This paper comes in 9 foot widths, so I can use it to put in a white or black wall as needed.
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Bruce A. Dart |
Hi Debbie, John is right of course. All of these are a bit like how much salt you use to season food and each photographer has their own taste. The important thing is that you have to work out what works for you. I have used white walls in my studio (with the exception of the "black wall phase") for more than 25 years. I don't do commercial work, which many times needs to be more exacting. White walls for portraits often gives about a half an f/stop more exposure. If you modify your lighting from the standard 3:1 to more like a 5:1 (two stops difference between main and fill) your unseen secondary will pick up about a half stop and you will be pretty close to the 3:1 Most of us also have things on our walls in addition (portrait samples, etc) and all that takes up some light. If your space is doing "double duty," as many of us also do, you will need to see that your displays look good as well. Paint is the cheapest part of all this. Try it and see what works. repaint if it doesn't. If I can help with any other questions, my e-mail is bdphoto@ptd.net Good luck.
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Debbie Crowe |
I was wondering: do professional photographers, like Picture People or Olan Mills for example, use strobe lighting when doing their portraits? That "snap" sound they make made me wonder about that, especially since I just signed up for this class. Debbie
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Bruce A. Dart |
HI Debbie, Sometimes the professionals don't view the chain outfits as "professional," probably the same as an upscale restaurant looks at the fast food industry. LOL However, we all use strobes for portraits. The professional strobes have "modeling lights" on them -- a light that shows what you light is doing and where specifically it is going as opposed to an on camera strobe that only shows the results not a preview. The consistency of light and the fast recycle time between shots is a major factor, plus the comfort of subjects as compared to "hot lights." additionally, there are all kinds of "light modifiers" to create softer, more pleasing effect for portraits or special light enhancement. Working with multiple lights is fun but it also involves some physics here as well. Light ratios, light falloff, and the "angle of incidence" aspect of accent lights. Sounds complicated but once you start working with them it becomes more apparent, especially since you can see the results right away with digital. Bruce
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