BetterPhoto Q&A
Category: New Questions

Photography Question 
Harriet Feagin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2011
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New Photos


I am commenting on the email I just received from BP explaining that only new photos will be considered for the contest during the next three months. My first reaction is that I am all for it. I think new photos each month for a while will keep us looking for fresh ideas. That said, I am also concerned that a photo of the same venue but not the same frame, will be discarded. Some of my Grand Canyon photos tend to look the same, as do my Monument Valley photos. Also, in the past, I have had a photo that did not ever get an EP the first time and won Gold on the second try. I hope this is not going to be a permanent thing for this very reason. Just my thoughts on the subject....


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6/1/2016 11:20:36 AM

 
Ken Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/11/2005
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  Harriet, Jim says this is for three months. True, it might morph into just "new" photos. I'd just upload fresh images, even if they're similar to ones you have already posted. I often go back to old trip photos and find new gems. True, the exif data will show the date but I don't think BP will exclude it,if I upload it as new. Mostly, I think they will key on the upload date. If it's earlier than June 1st, it will get tossed. I resubmitted a Monument Valley photo this morning, so I'll have to check contest entries to see if it's still there. It was this morning but should get tossed. No big deal.


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6/1/2016 11:55:01 AM

 
John R. Koepfer
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/27/2008
  This is my 2 cents, l think it is a bad idea to spring it on us the way that it was. I look and shot for the monthly theme the month before, so I have many shots that I now can not use. I also am very busy at the beginning of the month with my business and sometimes don't get out with my camera until the second or third week of the month. I think there will be BPer's like me who don't like it but that being said it may be fun for others.


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6/1/2016 12:16:42 PM

 
Lindley Johnson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 8/18/2004
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  "NEW THING for this SUMMER:

Only new photos.

For the next three months, let's only submit photos shot and uploaded during the month."

This is a quote from Jim from another thread. So he's saying that today, June 1, your photo must have been shot today (shot and uploaded during the month).

This is an impractical idea, as I see it. If he wants only new photos (no resubmits) then it needs to be worded differently.


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6/1/2016 12:28:40 PM

 
Reynaldo D. Reyes
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/29/2006
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  It's pretty clear that on the P.S of Jim's letter, only photos taken and uploaded during the current month will be considered. This invalidates all images I took during my vacation in March and April 2016. I guess I can still post them though, they will not be valid for the contest. Oh well! It is what it is.


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6/1/2016 12:58:14 PM

 
Ken Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/11/2005
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  Upon further review, I agree with you guys. I hope BP amends the rules to allow for older photos to be freshly uploaded. I have many photos that I had planned on submitting to the contest, that are several months or even years old.


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6/1/2016 1:06:19 PM

 
Karen E. Gold
BetterPhoto Member Since: 8/21/2006
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  I for one am glad that Jim is trying this out, there are too many resubmits (I include myself). If I do not have the time to get out and take photos then I will have none to post and I am okay with that.
May 30th we went for a drive to Myra falls on my day off, since I work full time I have limited time to go through the photos I will be posting a couple of photos over the next couple of days and I would hope they are looked at for this months contest, if they are not so be it, but from what I read of Jim's main email they will be. To say people who have traveled near the end of the month have to have their photos in by the end of the month to be considered would be unrealistic. Quote from Jim's email " Starting today, June 1st, I'll be conducting this three-month experiment to see recently created images only."
If people want to resubmit photos, maybe we should have a category just for resubmits........just a thought.


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6/1/2016 1:29:42 PM

 
Harriet Feagin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2011
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  Ok, I really misunderstood. I did not realize that for the month of June, for example, only shots taken this month will be considered. Is this true? Well, I can understand resubs of old EP shots not being eligible but this will severely hamper my number of entries. It seems like a novel idea but it does make it difficult. I am not going anywhere this month and we have had rain, rain and more rain.... Time for some oil and water experiments.


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6/1/2016 1:43:10 PM

 
Carol Quina
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/26/2012
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  I personally love it! I too was recently on a trip and took a bunch of photos that I would like to submit - I'll just do that in September. For me this is great - it'll get me out there shooting even more. Since I read it as "shot & submitted this month" and this is the 1st day of the month I went looking for something to shoot!


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6/1/2016 2:09:19 PM

 
Ken Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/11/2005
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  I just checked MT. My resubmit is still showing up. There are 27 images in the theme, and 8 were uploaded in June. I suspect all were taken before today. 19 were uploaded earlier than June.

I hope those uploaded today will be valid entries, even though I doubt they were actually taken today. I'm sure Jim will chime in soon. Whatever will be, will be :-)


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6/1/2016 2:12:20 PM

 
Nikki McDonald
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/6/2006
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  I have any number of "problems" with this proposal and have submitted them to Jim. I hadn't thought about how boring this could be though as Harriet said. When I go someplace, whether it's my backyard or across the country, I tend to take lots of shots. Then I pick and process the keepers. I deliberately space out their entry - I mean why bore everyone else and why compete with myself. So, as a result, I'm like Ken and everyone else. I have a folder full of older images that will be new uploads to BP when I put them in. None were taken in June.

And I especially think the point others have made about the first of the month being really problematic and John's point that he's been shooting for weeks for the monthly theme and now those images are ineligible??? are valid concerns.

And I also hope this will not mean that fall or winter images, for example, will automatically be passed over because they are "out of season". As Peggy said in another thread, lots of members live in other hemispheres . . .


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6/1/2016 3:53:37 PM

 
Carol Quina
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/26/2012
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  Reading further, I think there is an "out" for those who can't get out and shoot that much but still want to participate...

"If you use previous images for a Digital Darkroom creation or major revision, that's cool... as long as the submitted photo is, in the judge's eyes, a new creation."

I'm just guessing but it sounds like they are tired of seeing straight re-submits in the contest.


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6/1/2016 4:56:32 PM

 
Lindley Johnson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 8/18/2004
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  I'm in total agreement with you, Nikki - you stated my concerns very well. If they're tired of resubmits, then just say that (I don't actually agree with that either, but it's a different subject). To say that every image must be newly shot is not practical or in the BP spirit, in my view.


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6/1/2016 8:00:52 PM

 
Ritajane Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/22/2004
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  I kinda like the idea, but I'm a homemaker... Getting out will be a challenge but I think it will be fun... I'm tuning 61 this month and maybe make my birthday month a all new photo month... I understand your concerns, but it will also give everyone a lot of new photos... Keep on shooting!! ❤️


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6/1/2016 8:49:34 PM

 
Linda G. Yee
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/28/2002
  I am just returning to the site after a lengthy hiatus due to a move half-way across the country (from Oklahoma to Florida) and find this news very unsettling.

I have a large number of photos that have never been posted here using subjects that are very different (land-locked OK is very different from being right on the Gulf). However, not all of these photos were taken "yesterday" either. In addition, I also still work full time and do not have every day to get out with my camera.

I have not received an email, but that doesn't mean that one isn't on the way to me. :(

Oh, and Hello fellow Photographers. I have missed your great work.
Linda Yee


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6/2/2016 9:56:14 AM

 
John R. Koepfer
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/27/2008
  I just recieved an email from Jim and it looks like the new rules have been revised. Looks like you can enter any capture 60 days or newer and any rework done in photoshop. I am glad this has been done as I now can submit my shots from April and May. He did mention that there is a chance this may become permanent and if it does I hope that they at least have a category for older shots.


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6/3/2016 12:53:23 PM

 
Harriet Feagin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2011
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  I do hope it is not a permanent thing. That said, I do like seeing new images and not ones I have seen before. What if I look through some older photos and see one that I missed, process it, love it and then enter it. Is this considered "new"?


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6/3/2016 1:14:08 PM

 
Errick L. Cameron
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/23/2005
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  Hello friends. Thought that I might weigh in on this change. I, as many of you know, have a Pro membership. I really enjoy photography! My membership due costs are minor compared to my enjoyment. Some months I enter 30 some 60, but I work on my photography continually, average 1-2 hours daily. When I go back and look at my early BP entries... Ugh! So, I post 25 to 30 original photos every month. Ones that have never appeared on BP before. the rest are either resubs or slight reworks. So yes I am guilty of posting resubmits. I see where Jim is coming from. we should all try to keep our posts reassembly fresh. That is good for BP and good for us as an active photographer. I guess my only stumble is that in the way that I shoot. Owning and working a 50 plus hour a week career, I get most of my photo shooting on 2-3 day photo trips that I take every 3-4 months. I an currently working on photos that may have been taken 6 over years ago. Yes old clicks but never seen or posted before. I enjoy being able to pull from a variety of subject matter when I work on my photos in the evening. My last photo weekend was March of 2016. I have images that I haven't even opened up yet. I guess these will not be allowed in the contest.


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6/3/2016 5:27:26 PM

 
Lindley Johnson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 8/18/2004
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  With the "clarification" that came out today, we can post photos that have been taken within the last 60 days - that's an improvement since it adds to our flexibility as photographers, but it is still unnecessarily restrictive, in my opinion. If photos are new to BP, then what is the issue with them having been photographed months (or years) earlier? Like others, I still have images that I haven't submitted from previous trips or other photography outings - I've saved them to provide some variety in what I submit. Now they're not available to me (at least through this trial period). If BP has an issue with too many resubmits, that's one thing, but this new policy is another altogether.


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6/3/2016 6:41:35 PM

 
Harriet Feagin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2011
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  Well said, Lindley.


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6/3/2016 7:09:17 PM

 
Cindy Bendush
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/16/2007
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  I find it very interesting that the majority of comments being made are on the negative side (and I agree that its a bad idea - see my post in the June thread) yet Jim's email says "P.S. I've received many responses about this. The majority are saying things like "I agree", "Awesome idea", and "This is what I do already - I love this idea!" To the minority of people that are having a hard time with this 3-month experiment, I say Thank You for your comments and just know that everything's going to be alright. Let's make the contest fun for everyone by pushing each other and ourselves to create new works of art.

Really? Who wants to join me in seeing those 'majority'
comments he talks about? Even other talented photographers who win every month don't like the idea!


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6/3/2016 9:57:43 PM

 
Pat Harry
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/26/2006
  I'm one of the majority that sent a positive response to Jim. I did not like the first pass, where he required images from the same month. I work full time+, so I do my shooting on the weekends. By requiring images from the same month, he effectively closed off the first week for me.

But when Jim changed to allow images from the previous 60 days, that is perfect. I love the motivation to shoot new images, I love the idea of seeing new work from others (limit the resubmits). I personally think this is a good move. Yes, I have some that I was planning to submit and now can't - but I'm okay with that. For me, I participate in the contests to shoot more and improve - with emphasis on improve, which isn't going to happen without shooting more.

Limiting submissions to recent work makes sense to me.


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6/4/2016 6:56:51 AM

 
Cindy Bendush
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/16/2007
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  Good for you. It may work for some people. I have no problem seeing fresh images - don't get me wrong. I DO however have a problem with not being able to enter previous images - even if taken 3 years back. I say 3 years because that is the limit that our juried state fair requires. Just sayin'... As long as the images are 'fresh' from the standpoint of having never been entered into the contest I'm OK with it - (seasonal images especially). I don't work - I can't. I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. This severely limits my energy and time spent on my photography - I can't take workshops or travel except for vacation. If you look at my gallery you will see that my images mostly have been shot in my home, yard or nearby location, in addition to digital darkroom, which requires less energy. I don't edit my images very quickly either. Being able to resubmit has been a saving grace for me. Having said that I have contacted BP regarding issues of health. I will post the response when I receive it.


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6/4/2016 7:28:40 AM

 
Martha R. Mazon
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/6/2008
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  If BP is so tired of looking at old images, why is it that every POTD for the past 8 days was uploaded in 2009?


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6/4/2016 8:54:12 AM

 
Tracy L. Hart
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/27/2005
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  I think it's a good idea for a trial run. I usually upload current photos, such as the previous month if I feel I have something worthy. If I am working on something in the digital realm, I may have five or 6 old photos combined into one. I am happy for the new change.


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6/4/2016 12:58:48 PM

 
Carol L. Fowler
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/7/2008
  I agree with Cindy and Harriet. I have many excellent photos from past trips that I just haven't got to edit yet that I would have liked to post. After a photo trip, I don't want to post 30 similar photos in a month which would diminish the visual effect of any one individual photo. I see the challenge but no particular value in the 60 day requirement, so definitely put me down in the "against" category.


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6/4/2016 5:01:03 PM

 
Errick L. Cameron
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/23/2005
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  The big challenge will be the monthly theme. I thought and still think that it is a great topic. I had already started working on some past images that from past photo trips. Will have to delay those now. Will see what my garden has to offer this time of year.


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6/4/2016 5:27:09 PM

 
Usman M. Bajwa
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/11/2006
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  As I wrote in the other thread, I am NOT a big fan of "the current month or 60 days old images only" idea for the contest submissions for the next 3 months. I can live with it but don't like it one bit!

I believe the motivation for the Judges to implement the above idea for a 3-month period (as a test case) comes from mainly two reasons:

1. A need to see New/Fresh images at BP, &
2. A desire to stimulate interest and goad BPers to go out and shoot/practice more and hence improve our photography.

I am fully supportive of both these rationales behind the new directive and do very much appreciate and commend BP for trying to rev up photographic interest in its members.

However, at the same time, I also find it very restrictive and discriminating to put a ban on members to submit images which have been shot 30, 60 or any other number of days ago. I strongly believe that a good photo must be allowed to be entered into BP contest (and hence cherished by all the viewers) and should be completely independent of its 'date of birth' !!!

I also believe that BP can do this quite easily by just disallowing resubmits for the next 3 months, as a test case.
People who have sufficient time at their hands, will be shooting new images anyways, but some of the folks like me, who don't have much time on their hands, may find it very difficult to shoot and process images even within the (now extended) 60 days time limit. Forcing members to go out and shoot, who may find it hard to find some time for photography, will put unnecessary burden on them! Generally speaking, by imposing stern regulations to try to force people to do what you want them to do usually becomes counterproductive.

In light of most all the other member comments and what I wrote above, I request you to reconsider even the 60 days taboo on contest submissions and just disallow resubs for the next 3 months :)

Usman.


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6/4/2016 11:37:16 PM

 
Ken Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/11/2005
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  I joined BP a little over 10 years ago and credit it for giving me a passion to get out and do photography. And to learn from others. Back then, there were 20,000+ images submitted to the contest. With the explosion of other photo-sharing sites, and photo contests, the number of BP contest entries has dropped to 5,000 to 6,000 images.

I agree with Jim's philosophy...to shoot in the present. It's easy for some, more difficult for others depending on full-time job, parenting, health, etc.

I like the old adage...if it ain't broke, why fix it? Why not leave "as is" and allow resubmits like always. Or, modify the theme to limit submissions to the last 60 days. The theme can change each month; but the extra caveat is to limit to photos taken in the last two months. A bit of a compromise.

Back to my first point...whenever I meet new photographers and they ask...what inspired you to learn/grow in your photography, I always tell them about BP...the site, the people, the contest.


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6/5/2016 6:18:08 AM

 
Harriet Feagin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2011
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  Usman, you said it just right. I think a ban on resubmits is the best solution. I feel very restricted in what I can enter.


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6/5/2016 7:10:56 AM

 
Errick L. Cameron
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/23/2005
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  After our 60 day trail why no try a trail that goes...''Resubmits are only allowed during the last five days of the contest" Or something of that order?


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6/5/2016 7:25:15 AM

 
Nikki McDonald
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/6/2006
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  I am going to hazard a guess that the real problem isn't the occasional re-submission that most of us make, it's the members who enter almost nothing new and persist in entering the same images month after month after month. It's tiresome for the general membership and even more so for the judges.

The thing is, the solution to this is very simple IMO. Judges, unless you feel YOU missed something the first time and SHOULD move an image on, just don't give awards to images you have seen before. Members who resubmit frequently and repeatedly do so because it works. Take away the reward, and the behavior will pretty much cease.

I try to put 4-5 re-subs that I think are worthy of a second look in each month and I routinely enter 30-31 photos, so 25-26 are new to BP. Often my re-submission of an image is a year or more after the entry. And after one or maybe two re-submissions, I abandon the image (the exception would be an image that turns out to be an excellent fit for a Monthly Theme). I will not make any re-submissions for the next three months, but I don't think this type of pattern is problematic, and I don't think it should be "banned".


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6/5/2016 9:02:00 AM

 
Susan Williams
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/11/2004
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  I appreciate Jim's compromise in the New Rule and whole-heartedly support his rationale for creating it. However, in addition to the pros and cons already mentioned, I would say that BP members, by and large, are serious photographers who are passionate about their craft, and nearly everyone posts images of their best work at whatever skill level they have attained. We are not a group of snapshooters who enjoy taking pictures but don't have the "fever" so-to-speak. Limiting submissions to 30 or 60 days past truly does put us in shackles. We already have the desire to create new work and I don't believe the extra shove is required to get us motivated. We are self-motivated by the pleasure of photography and limited only by our real life circumstances.

I also suggest, as an alternative, a separate contest category for "resubmits." That would allow the Editors, Staff and Judges an informed opportunity to view photos that the member truly believes is worthy of a second look, and it would give the members an opportunity to review them in that light if they choose to do so. It might grow into a category that welcomes critiques by members (or BP officials) since peer-to-peer critiques are rarely offered otherwise.


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6/5/2016 12:44:45 PM

 
Lindley Johnson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 8/18/2004
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  I agree with so much of what has been said here: thank you Usman, Ken, Harriet, Nikki, and Susan for expressing your thoughts (and mine!) so clearly.


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6/6/2016 3:19:24 PM

 
Martha R. Mazon
BetterPhoto Member Since: 4/6/2008
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  One thing I've learned since the change was suggested is how many BP members regularly upload and comment on images despite various serious constraints. My own constraints are not as difficult as those of many here, yet my postings have been far less regular. Kudos to all who have maintained this daily habit for so many years!


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6/8/2016 7:30:14 AM

 
Cindy Koller   I just got back from out of the country so this new "idea" definitely caught me off guard. I'll be the first one to say fine, no resubmits, but folks, I travel all over the world to get my shots, and when I come home from a trip I have about 10,000 or more photos to go through. First, I'm like Nikki, I do not like to all my work from one place and enter it all in a single month, its a waste for me, and a waste for you. Unfortunately, all you are going to get from me for a while a Camargue horses, and normally I'd spread work like this over years. Second, it means that I cannot show any of the shots I took in India just in December, which I've only shown a handful, and none from Sri-Lanka. I can no longer show anything from Falkland Islands, South Georgia Islands or Antarctica, which cost me 50,000 to go on that trip. Yes, you have seen some of those photos, but I tend to try to space out my work with work from other places.

As a travel and wildlife photographer, I typically do not just go out and shoot something every day, as my time between trips is used to process thousands of photos.

Oh, and FYI, I believe that there are many folks that are posting old photos, and most people can get away with it. I'm concerned that because my photos are so specialized, I can't get away with it, just based on their locations.

Enjoy my horses now because soon they won't be allowed!


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6/10/2016 10:37:17 PM

 
Harriet Feagin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2011
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  Most of us are not as extensively traveled as you, Cindy. That presents another problem but it is similar, too. I only go on a couple of trips a year. I like to spread my photos from these trips out, too. I hope this is not going to be a permanent thing as I am dogging my neighbors for flower shots. No, I don't have horses but I have neighborhood flowers and anything else I can scrounge up. For three months I can do this. Please let that be it, BP. I do think that re-submits should be limited, though. I don't do many resubs but some of my shots do look similar.


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6/11/2016 1:37:19 PM

 
Cindy Bendush
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/16/2007
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  Cindy - why is there no link to your gallery so we can see your images - entered in the contest or not? You are extremely fortunate to have the means and time to visit the awesome places you mention! This gives you a huge variety of material to work with, which is something most of us are lacking. Many us have tool little supply for this new rule. Either way its an unfortunate issue - but count your blessings girl - I can't say I know anyone else who is in such a fortunate circumstance!


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6/11/2016 7:02:57 PM

 
Cindy Bendush
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/16/2007
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  Oh - and not to worry about your horses - everyone is looking at little else but entries of my pregnant daughter this month ...LOL.


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6/11/2016 7:07:51 PM

 
Cindy Koller   I do not have a paid BP gallery, but it is my understanding that if you click on my name under the title of any of my photos, it will take you to a small free gallery of 30 of my photos. It works for me. Let me know.

I cannot image this situation being permanent, but if so, they need to have a way to start capturing our capture date, which they currently do not do.


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6/16/2016 5:49:59 PM

 
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