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Photography Question 

Tara R. Swartzendruber
 

another large group photo question - need quick


I've read many Q&A about large group photos, but still have a few questions. In a couple days I will photograph a group of 35 people in a backyard, about 4:30 p.m., some shade offered by large evergreen trees. I will not have a tripod or extra lighting. I plan to shoot at a small aperature and focus to the middle of the group. My question is about my flash. Should I use it....at iTTL? I have a Nikon D-80 and an SB800 which will be mounted above on a stroboframe.
Can someone help with this or any other potential problems you may see with my plan? Thanks so much! The shoot is in 3 days.


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July 03, 2008

 

W.
 
How many rows, Tara? 4? 5?
Keep their backs to the sun to prevent squinting.
Focus on the 2nd row.
Don't go wider than 50mm focal length (in 35mm equivalent; i.e. 34mm on the D80) to avoid too unflattering perspective distortion in faces and figures.
The stroboframe doesn't serve any useful purpose here that I can see. Mount the SB800 directly onto/into the hotshoe.
And I'm assuming you shoot from tripod, as you should.
Use the SB800 as fill flash, dialed down to 1/4 power. I'll let a real Nikonian chime in here with the precise settings for it.
Shoot RAW, set ISO 100 and aperture priority, 'Av', at F/8 or F/11 (keep the rows tightly packed). Take care that the shutter speed does not exceed 1/200th of a sec (the D80's X-sync speed).
The rest is up to your directive genius.

Have fun!


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July 03, 2008

 

Mark Feldstein
  But T says: "I will not have a tripod or extra lighting."

This weekend, remember, 'Where there's smoke...there's salmon'. I smell smoke ;>).
M.


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July 03, 2008

 

Tara R. Swartzendruber
  Mark,
I will have my SB800, just nothing ELSE.

W.S., If I manage to keep my shutter speed at 1/125 or faster, won't hand-held be adequate? And can you tell me WHY the stroboframe serves no purpose in this situation?
You also say f/8 or f/11, I've been reading f/16 or f/22, although I realize that at the 8 or 11, I have a better chance at a bit faster shutter speed. Why the difference in advice here?


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July 03, 2008

 

Pete H
  Tara,

You are agonizing over far to much for this shoot.

f/8..f/11..f/16 won't make much of a diff in image sharpness! You will probably want to shoot f/5.6 to f/8 if there are distractions in the background. Heck, nothing wrong with f/4!

Group your subjects tight enough so as to insure the SB-800 covers everyone.

If you are really concerned and have little confidence in your shooting abilities; why not go to the sight at 4:30 BEFORE the day you want to do this and practice. Set up what you feel will be the approximate location of the widest and deepest expanse of your subjects. Place some object at these extremes to insure your flash will cover it and you are in focus w/o lens distortion.

You said nothing of the lens you will use. If you have the space, I suggest no less than 80mm FL up to 200mm FL if you can fit everyone.

Your real challenge is not the technical aspect of this; rather you will find it a bit of a chore to make sure everyones eyes are open, no one is casting shadows on another and ALL faces can be clearly seen.

Take several shots..review your first shot well..if it's in focus, turn off autofocus if you are maintaining your position relative to the group.

Finally, if you are really worried about it; shoot program mode, check the exposure, dial in some + or - if needed.

Failing all of the above, call me...Travel expenses etc plus my fee will be about $3,200..LOL but dead serious.

Relax tara..It's a pretty easy shoot. :)

all the best,

Pete


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July 03, 2008

 

Mark Feldstein
  Tara: Tightly packed? Hmmmmmm.....I dunno. Have you given any thought to exactly how you;re going to pose this group of 35 within the limitations of your SB and lens? Distance from subjects at what focal length and how much depth of field can you get? What the angle of light produced by your flash is going to be, i.e., whether you're going to have a wide enough angle of coverage to avoid a hot spot and light fall-off? What solution have you got in case clouds roll in? Just keep boosting your ISO? And hand-holding what maximum focal length lens at 35-50mm at 1/200 sec or less? F 11 at iso 100 with about 50 w/s of fill flash at 4:30 in the afternoon probably 5:15 by the time you round everyone up. Ya think? W? What do you think?
M.


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July 03, 2008

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  At 4:30 you can put the iso up to 200 or 400 and have a good shutter speed and aperture and not have to use flash.
Group them together and stand on a chair.


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July 03, 2008

 

W.
 
"If I manage to keep my shutter speed at 1/125 or faster, won't hand-held be adequate?"

No, because 1) you run an unnecessary risk of camera shake during exposure, and 2) handheld requires you to concentrate on your camera and what you see in the viewfinder instead of on the subjects, as you need to do when shooting a group.

"And can you tell me WHY the stroboframe serves no purpose in this situation?"

Because this will be a horizontally oriented image. So there's no need to rotate the SB800 to be over a portrait oriented D80. With this shot a stroboframe will only be a hindrance.

"You also say f/8 or f/11, I've been reading f/16 or f/22, although I realize that at the 8 or 11, I have a better chance at a bit faster shutter speed. Why the difference in advice here?"

Because the DoF provided by F/16 or F/22 is waaay too much, thus unnecessary. Better trade the surplus DoF for shutter speed.
The shutter speed should be between 1/125th and 1/200th. No slower: to stop subject movement. No faster: to stay within the D80's sync-speed! With Av, use the ISO setting to get the shutter speed within that range.

I disagree with greg's advice to not use (fill-)flash: not using (fill-)flash will create too harsh and too black shadows under chins and noses.


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July 04, 2008

 

Tara R. Swartzendruber
  Thanks, everyone. I'm not really that nervous about it. I did a shoot with 45 kids a couple weeks ago and it turned out great, I just like to continue to learn and do the best possible job I can. I used my flash, but wondered later if it would've made much of a difference if I hadn't since the group was so large. I have less confidence in my ability to understand what all the SB800 can (and can't) do in these situations.


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July 04, 2008

 
- Gregory LaGrange

BetterPhoto Member
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  Harsh shadows in the shade?

125th is good enough for a small lens and a group that's just standing there. It's not fast enough if you just can't keep the camera still. If you can't, then just use a faster one.


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July 04, 2008

 
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