BetterPhoto Q&A
Category: Studio, Still, & Personal Portraiture Photography

Photography Question 

Kim L. Jones
 

'Competition' on an Assignment


I recently had a photo shoot of a baby girl. Then her father brought his own camera and started taking pictures everytime I posed her. I was so shocked that he would be that bold. I didn't really know how to handle the situation so I didn't say anything. Then, this week, it happened again with a mother this time. I nicely asked her to put her camera away, and she got really angry. Does anyone know of a tactful way to deal with a situation like this? I hope I am not being too touchy, but I really feel ripped off by this. Thanks in advance!


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November 19, 2007

 

Mark Feldstein
  When you use the phrase "brought his own camera", I assume you did this at your place rather than theirs. You should have asked him to leave or terminated the shoot. I would NEVER EVER put up with that kind of nonsense on a commercial assignment. Since this is the second time it's happened to you in a short time, it may be that word is getting around that you allow it to happen. You need to put your foot down or somewhere else if this happens again.
Take it light.


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November 19, 2007

 

Christopher A. Walrath
  Mark's right, Kim. Don't stand for it at all. One way you might avoid this is to have them sign a contract ahead of time - if you don't already - that states that you will be the only photographer at the shoot. And get at least half of your pay up front to RESERVE THE DATE so if you get this situation again, you can say: 'Please stop. You agreed to this in the contract'. Or, if they get mad and walk, at least you have gotten your pre-prints overhead and you can move on to the next job. Be assertive as Mark says. But be polite. Always keep your cool. Be shrewd in your dealings with clients. And cover your assets ahead of time so that you have a leg to stand on later.


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November 19, 2007

 

Mark Feldstein
  Sure, you can put it in your shoot contract as Chris suggests, and then flash it on them if necessary during the shoot. But I think if it gets to that point, it may already be a tad late in terms of brewing bad feelings.
Maybe it would help at the time of signing the contract to good-naturedly remind them that you're the sole photographer on this assignment, you don't allow, work with or need back-up photographers so tell them to leave the cameras in the car (preferably in the glove-box storage container on a hot day).
And get 1/2 your fees up front with a non-refundable cancellation clause built in, as Chris mentioned as well.


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November 20, 2007

 

Kim L. Jones
  Thank you, Mark and Chris. Your suggestions are really helpful. I will definitely put something in my contract, and be sure to point it out before the shoot. And if that fails, I like the glove box idea!


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November 20, 2007

 

Charles Hooper
  This is great for your own location you control, but what would you do if you were playing Santa in a mall taking photo"s with local Children. You expect everyone to buy a photo. You have a price list posted and a sign that said " no personal photo's, please." But out comes the camera phones
and most of the parents don't buy the photo you just took with that high dollar camera you have. Now what?


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November 25, 2007

 

Kim L. Jones
  I have never had a set up like that before, Charles. I have however taken my son to see Santa in the mall. Everywhere I have ever been, they make you pay up front for the photos. Before the child ever gets to Santa's lap. Hope this helps a little.
Kim


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November 25, 2007

 

Dan Ternes
  I've got a slightly different view... stop being so precious! It's not a second photographer, or a back-up or anything. It's a father taking a photo of his daughter. It's a "happy snap". And parents should be entitled to do that anytime they please.

Have some confidence that, given your equipment, expertise and experience as a photographer, you'll do a much better job than he will, and it'll be your photos that they're framing and hanging on the wall.


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November 27, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Gregory LaGrange
Gregory LaGrange's Gallery
  Will she do a better job if the girl isn't trying to go back and forth looking at her fathers camera and her camera?


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November 28, 2007

 

Chandragopal Shroti
  kim,
under such circumstances, first I will politely ask the parent to 'let me finish my job, if u have a camera, it is ok, this u can try later in yr home'. if he is insistant, then u can stop the shoot and ask the gentleman/woman that if u r disturbed in this way the shoot will not be possible and close yr kit and say 'excuse me I shall not be able to do this if disturbed in between and if u take pix in yr home, it will be better, since it is here that I am engaged in my job to photograph yr daughter'. otherwise, for such over-enthusiastic person, a little bit of 'lie' would help u from further botheration. thanks and happy shoots.


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November 28, 2007

 

Mark Feldstein
  I've been watching this thread evolve. Interesting. I think Dan is wrong for a number of reasons. First, it is exactly a second photographer, nothing more or less.

I've seen this kind of sleaze happen often at weddings. The photographer hired to shoot sets up the shots and suddenly, like John Wilkes Booth, someone comes leaping in from off stage, whips out their P&S as the photographer gets the off the first shot, the bystander grabs the shot while blowing the exposure and distracting the whole scene. The bystander then graciously gives the prints to the b&g so they don't have to buy them from the photographer who set the scene in the first place.

When I see it starting to happen, I've been known to step directly in front of the offending party as they shoot. Bumping into them is a good technique too.

Second-hand shooting is a practice that I think is rude. It shows total lack of concern for the professional hired to do their job and for true pros, earn a livelihood from it. It also interferes with the hired person's ability to successfully complete their assignment and causes delays, particularly with large group shots. People can't even say that they mean well in doing this. It's just rude, disrespectful and cheap. No excuses.

Lying to them, as CS suggested is just going to make a difficult situation worse. When you start going down that road, there's usually no end to it. Taking control of the situation, something pros must do regularly, is the way to handle it. Usually, stopping it before it gets started is the best way. Like with: "No. Please put your camera away. It's interfering with my ability to do this properly." Or my favorite: "Alright, drop the camera, put your hands up and step away!"

As to the Santa mall scene, forget it. I don't think there's anyway to control that. It's pretty much chaos anyway. The trick I think to sell photos there is put a really high end, well-lit, giant print up on an easel as a selling tool with a sign underneath that says "Cell phone photos can't compete with our quality."

It's one thing when this happens at a press conference or newsworthy event. In fact, in my end of the biz, it's pretty much expected. But portrait sittings and weddings...no. It's not about competition, it's about interference, it's a distraction and just plain rude.

That's my rant and I'm sticking to it.
M.


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November 28, 2007

 

Charles Hooper
  You go Mark! Excellent, Excellent, Excellent. I have spent many an hour at fairs & Festivals across country taking Old Time Photos in my Photo Trailer. I look out the window to see everyone with cameras taking there own photos of my settings. They don't know that there cameras fire my strobes. It's quite a battle to stop it. They think they are being sneeky, but there not. Keep hitting the nail on the head, like you always do.

Charlie


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December 11, 2007

 

Stephanie M. Stevens
  I've been reading and thought I'd share my story. 2 years ago my cousin asked me to shoot her wedding. Thinking about it now it was a dumb thing for her to do because at the time I was a high school student, I didn't have a professional camera, had never shot a wedding, and none of my pictures that she liked so much were portraits. But she wanted to save a few dollars, you know how it goes. Anyway, while I was trying to get the group shots, EVERY ONE of the guests was behind me with their own camera telling them to "Look over here!" and in half the photos I took nobody is looking at my camera. Having never done anything even remotely like that before I didn't know how to handle it, but I learned looking back on that day that I am the photographer, and not to let people step on me like that. I also learned that I hate weddings. :)


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December 12, 2007

 

Pete H
  Sorry folks,

This thread made me laugh soo hard.

I've done many portraits and still do.
Often some family member brings their own camera..One guy even brought along a decent pro-sumer DSLR!..and asked if he could shoot some pics while I did.

I said "Knock yourself out!" LOL

Funny thing is, No ONE who brings a camera to my studio has the ability to trigger my strobes! LOL I have a hunch the shots they took just MAYBE came out a little dark.


Have fun,

Pete


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December 12, 2007

 

Scott McCord
  I deal with this all the time. An approach I use is to bring my portable studio lighting which works off of the slave. This doesn't prevent others from taking photos, but when their flash pops my studio lights, none of their photos turn out!


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February 01, 2008

 

Mark Feldstein
  Hey, try this studio tactic: Put a lamphead with a 12" reflector wired to a Norman P2000 pack. Add a loose swivel stud. Spin the lamp head around facing the offending individual squarely in the face and fire two test shots. The resulting temporary blindness from blasting these cretins at close range usually allows sufficient time to do your work and then go have coffee while the scofflaw victim recovers their sight. :>)) I'm told that 9 out of ten opthalmologist / professional photographers approve of this technique. For longer lasting results, use a narrow reflector.
M.


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February 02, 2008

 

Pete H
  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH....

THAT made my day Mark! I am laughing sooo hard!


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February 02, 2008

 

Annette Leibovitz
  I take photos of children and photograph large events of 150-250 people. In my contract it says that I am the only photographer (in better wording). At the large events I set up groups for pictures. If there are people around me with cameras I explain that they may not take any pictures. I have said that people will look at their camera instead of mine. The client's get really upset when some people are looking at my camera and some are looking at someone else's camera. I have been pretty firm on this in the last few years and people are pretty respectful. In the smaller shoots I would ask the parent to not take pictures. This can be uncomfortable for you but necessary to not have the child see too many cameras and flashes. Be professional but firm. I have also been know to tell the group to go and have fun (and get out of the posed positions) really quickly so that the happy camera people do not come in when I am done. The amount of small point and shoot cameras at events is increasing. It is something I deal with many times a month.


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February 09, 2008

 

Debby A. Tabb
  Kim,
This happens more offten then you'd think.
I just explain that there can be no other cameras during the shoot as they will through off the lighting, and possibly harm my lights.
Now this is not true ( a flash can trigger your lights) but most people don't mean any harm and don't know weather or not thier actions will harm your sync.
But they really don't want to effect your equiptment so they comply.

during weddings, Guests have to be respected as they are friends and famly.
I have found that if I explain that I will give them a moment to take thier shot as soon as I have mine, they;re happy.
However, I take my shot then usualy say ok go ahead and I pull one or two of those people for the next shot
If anything is said , I just explain "I'm sorry, I;m on a time sceduele.
I have only had one person I had to go to those that hired me to have his camera removed,and that was a member of the video teamwho was shooting my seys for what could end up his portfolio.
He was relieved of his camera.
I hope this helps,
Debby


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February 11, 2008

 

Luca Diana
  Actually, Dan, I think you are completely wrong.
Parents do dot have any right to do that more than a passing stranger with a camera. Work is work and the photographer was called to do the job, now the parents are taking their own shots, after the photographer has gone through the trouble of showing up and setting the pose and parents are trying to take advantage of that to cut their photo bill and the photographer has lost work.
You seem to see things as a regular person with a camera, rather than a professional photographers who puts bread on his/her table with this job.

Luca
www.lucadiana.net


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February 12, 2008

 

Luca Diana
  I keep telling people not to shoot at my landscapes my they don't listen! LOL
Seriously guys, I feel for you, I'm glad I don't really have to put up with those situations, one wedding was enough for me.
Best of Luck!

Luca
www.lucadiana.net


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February 12, 2008

 
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