 Michael A. Bielat |
Canon 30D Focus + Noise Issues Anyone? Hello All, I have been enjoying my recent switch from Nikon to Canon but have two REALLY big issues which I am not too crazy about and am looking for a second opinion... I have 2 Canon EOS 30D DSLR bodies and I have more gear but it doesn't pertain to the issues at hand NOISE: I have both bodies set to "portrait" in the custom functions for the most part. The noise is pretty visible and intense at ISO's of 400 and greater... Is this something you all have to deal with? If so then what is your method of noise correction? FOCUS: I know the 30D is not made to have lightning fast focus which is more evident in their higher end DSLRs but does anyone know why the 30D paired up with the 18-55mm IS lens provides some pretty soft focus on some shots (not a ton but more often than I would like) I will post pics with examples when I get a free second. I noticed the noise issue on my first job. I did research and noticed that Canon's ISO values a little higher than they say they are so that may be a reason. As far as the soft focus issue, I do not have my AF assist light on or anything like that which may make the difference in soft focus in low light conditions? Now that I think about it, the photos that come out softer seem to be in low light conditions. I have that $1000+ lens so there should be NO reason for that to be the cause of the soft focus because it is quick and responsive. I am a pro photographer who just doesn't have the knowledge in Canon to diagnose these issues myself so any help would be much appreciated! Thanks!
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Suzanne Colson |
The lens in question has me stumped. I didn't think that Canon made an 18-55mm with Image Stabilization (IS) or in a fixed f/2.8 variety. The only lens I am aware of in this zoom length is the kit lens that comes with the 30D which is probably one of the lowest performing lenses of Canon's entire line-up. If it is indeed the kit lens my only complaint was the softness of the images from ISO 400 and above, but not noise.
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Marianne Fortin |
If you are using RAW then you will get more noise because the in-camera noise reduction is negated. You have to fix it yourself, either by adjusting the noise in the RAW converter or by using NeatImage, Noiseware, etc. I used to use Abode Camera RAW for editing but have now switched to Canon's DPP (comes with the camera) and I find it better because it uses the same settings as the camera (I use the XTi) and it allows for more adjustments (including curves) because I use PSE3 (no curves!). The editing window is larger as well.
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Michael A. Bielat |
Ahhh Typo problem. My lens is the Canon 17-55mm f/2.8 IS NOT the 18-55mm f/2.8 as mentioned in my first post. Link to Canon's Website: I am going to try some RAW editing in Aperture to see if it may just be Adobe Camera RAW showing too much noise at only 12.5% zoom which has me worried. I haven't made a print yet but I want it too look nice when editing. Pics will be up soon. In regards to Suzanne C's comment. Sorry about the typo, but what I have the issue with is Auto Focusing on a subject (yes even make sure the AF point corresponds to the subject) and I still get images where it looks like the AF didn't recognize where it was supposed to focus in on... Thanks all and keep them coming.
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Suzanne Colson |
I had the same basic problem with my 30D. The focus didn't appear to be sharp on what I knew I had focused on at the time. I have solved the problem somewhat by making the back '*' button the focus button, only using the center point to focus (it is a high precision focus point with a horizontal and vertical crosshair mark). By using the '*' button I can focus let go of the focus button and recompose the shot and then worry about exposure. You can set it with the one of the custom functions if you want to give it a try.
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Michael A. Bielat |
Suzanne C. That is EXACTLY the kind of tip I was looking for... I am going to give that a shot. It does sound like what you said is the same problem that I am having since you "think" the focus is correct and then later on in post processing realize that the focus was in fact "focused" just not on what you wanted it to be focused on. I looked at my re-occuring issue with focus (thank god I take multiple shots of a scene!) and it appears that it happens when I have a wide open aperture at f/2.8 and when there is a lot of detail behind the subject. Thanks again and keep them coming. ANYONE NOTICE A NOISE DIFFERENCE ON APPLE OR PC WITH ADOBE CAMERA RAW? ANYONE NOTICE A NOISE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN APERTURE AND CAMERA RAW? I have both and will give that a go.
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Michael A. Bielat |
Marianne, haha I didn't see your post earlier! You must have replied right when I was making my follow up post! I will try out Canon's software and see how that works for me. Thanks for the info about the noise not being handled from in camera to the RAW file. I never knew that. Thanks again and I will let you know how it works out!
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Robyn Gwilt |
Micahel, I've just been through the same thing - with the 24-105mm IS L USM, and the 70-200 IS L USM lens - when I put them on a friends 30D body, the pix were razor sharp, (also on my 350D)! I took my camera into Canon, and they did a 'service', re-did the AF, d/l the updated soft-ware/firmware etc., and I think its sorted out the problem! (Used it today, so still need to check) Seems it might not be unusual. What I did notice when using my friends 30D was that although the camera was 'beeping' to tell me focus was locked, the focus button did not light up - now I can't remember if it was like that from day 1, or whether it happened over time. Anyway, with the fix up, its lighting up, so I now know which button I'm focussing on, without having to press the button at the top (right thumb).
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Michael A. Bielat |
Thanks for the info Robyn, I do have the latest firmware on my Cameras (I have 2 Canon 30Ds for the biz) but will look into calling a Canon service tech to make sure it isn't something that needs service. I got a ton of wedding jobs coming up so hopefully not. I can say that I tested out new camera settings and I am happy with the results! To correct the issue (I think!) I am using a lot of what Suzanne said. I am only using the center AF point to focus but have the camera set from "AI FOCUS" to "ONE SHOT". By rading into the manual further, AI Focus re adjusts if the subject does, otherwise it stays the same. The One Shot mode requires me to focus once per shot and then I can compose my photo from there.
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Suzanne Colson |
I unfortunately have not had a whole lot of luck with either AI Servo or AI Focus for moving subjects. It works sometimes great and sometimes not. It depends on the subject and the contrast between the subject and the background and/or foreground. I guess I will have to wait until I can afford one of the Canon Mark Series cameras. I am not saying I don't enjoy my 30D, but for fast moving subjects people claim the Mark IIn can't be beat. Michael, did you try switching to the '*' button as the focus button yet? Some people like and some people don't. For me I would never go back. I even switched by old Rebel XT to that way. Just curious what you think? Good luck with your weddings and the 30D!!
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Michael A. Bielat |
I have the * button locking the AF for now. I did try using it for doing the focusing and didn't care for it. Okay so I definitely got the AF thing down and shouldn't have any issues. THE NOISE IS KILLING ME THOUGH!
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Michael A. Bielat |
I just downloaded a copy of Canon's Digital Photo Professional Software manual and think I found the noise issue! Now I am not at my home computer to verify this but have at least found a source of where the problem could lie... Now as pointed out earlier, for some reason, when shooting in RAW, the photos do not carry the in-camera noise reduction over to the RAW file (btw. can someone explain this further?) In the "Specifying Preferences" section of the manual, navigating to the preferences portion of the website gives a "General Settings" tab. There is Quality Priority, Standard, and Speed Priority. Only Quality Priority will process noise reduction for BOTH IMAGE DISPLAY (ding ding) AND CONVERTING AND SAVING!!! Standard does NOT do noise reduction when displayed but DOES do it when converting and saving! Speed priority does just that and does not do any noise reduction. The General Settings also has the level of noise reduction that you may perform for Luminance and chrominance: NONE, LOW or HIGH So what I was "seeing" with Adobe Camera RAW and so even Canons DPP software was noise when being displayed. This freaked me out and I didn't realize that the program was set to STANDARD so if I were to have saved a file with CPP, it would have shown up okay. Now on that note, Canon Digital Photo Pro users, what is your preferred Noise Reduction Setting? Reduce Liminance: None, Low or High? It is amazing what reading a little can do for questions!!!! Thanks all
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
use center focus point only and youll get sharp pics.. on my 30D I find most of my noise probs were from under exposing.. try shooting at 1/3rd stop over thats +1/3 EC, and your noise problems should be alot less... I have no focus probs to speak of even in AI servo wich I usually use for shooting bugs in macro! it just takes some time to work out the cameras little quirks.. and every camera has them.. also, what is your cameras in cam sharpening set to? I got mine all the way down as I found it over sharpened my shots and thats gonna really bring up the noise if there is any.. id rather do my own sharpening in Photoshop so I can just use local sharpening and put it where I want it. good luck!
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Michael A. Bielat |
Don;t mind the typo fix Craig: "+1/3 EC" you mean EV not EC. As mentioned before, I have my own company and have the fundamentals of photography. For wedding jobs, I use both natural lighting and creative lighting with Speedlights to provide ambient light and to disguise the flash... With that being said, I am always on the histogram in-camera, making sure not to blow the highlights and so forth so while I am shooting in manual mode, the exposure is where it should be... I do shoot in RAW for the flexibility and case of maybe catching a shot at the expense of not being able to meter for the subject (you know the fast moving wedding shots) or when my flash is recharging and I get only partial flash power... I knew my Nikons inside and out but I wanted to try a CMOS sensor instead of a CCD (without having to buy Nikons highest end camera for it) and I was dissapointed that Nikon isn't making any new advances or product announcements for any new professional DSLRS. Plus all their gear tends to run up a great demand, but they never produce enough so say hello to backorder! I read the manual for the Canon and even found out that Canon's ISO settings are technically more modest and you got things like ISO 125-ish (when it says ISO 100) and so forth down the line... (ISO 640 like ISO 800-ish, etc) So when I was in church and specifically was told by the priest that flash photography is forbidden, I cranked my ISO 640 and had my way with the wedding. Now I knew their would be noise (because it is going to look like a ISO 800 on a Nikon) but that combined with the CMOS sensor not carrying over the in-camera noise correction algorithm, I got worried! In regards to your questions, I have since adopted the center focus point only (and use the '*' knob to lock in the AF if needed) and then recompose my scene from there. My in camera sharpening is whatever the canned in-camera "Portrait" mode is set to. I too choose to use the photo editing software to add noise when needed because you can add it in camera, but it is a pain if possible to get rid of it after the fact. Thanks Craig.
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Marianne Fortin |
My understanding is that camera manufacturers all have different raw formats. That is why you have to download the specific Adobe Camera Raw version for your camera. Of course, the OEMs don't give Adobe access to all their information so it is a bit of a compromise. If you use the RAW converter that came with your camera it will use the same settings as the camera. The only downside I have found is that I can't convert a Raw file in DPP and open it directly in PSE3. I have to save it as a TIFF first (or JPEG). You can open the file without saving it in some versions of Photoshop. The reason the noise settings in your camera are not carried over to the RAW file is basically the same reason that other settings are not in the RAW file. The RAW file is the image recorded on the sensor with minimal in-camera processing. When you open the RAW file it does reflect the camera settings "as shot" but they can be changed. The noise settings are a bit different in DPP because, as you said, they are in the "Preferences" area which seems to imply you are setting the noise levels for a batch of photos rather than individually (as with Adobe Camera RAW). I have only been using DPP for a couple of weeks and haven't had to use the noise settings - mine are set at None. I also use NeatImage when I encounter noise problems. Hope this helps!
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
I dont mind Mike, but I did mean EC...lol "Exposure Compensation" but I could be wrong...lol at any rate shoot one 1/3 stop over the middle mark on the scale...lol
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
Michael, I shoot mostly jpeg and have made my own in camera settings.. I cut the in cam sharpening all the way back, the contrast is centered and the saturation is centered..i cant remember the rest though as im at work now..lol (yeah I get paid for this..can ya believe it?) lol anyhow.. try adjusting the mode you shoot in or make your own. I hardly ever shoot RAW unless its for something im getting paid to shoot (far and few between) or a very important photo that I want some "insurance" if you will, on.
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Michael A. Bielat |
Craig, sorry about the bad correction, I have never really seen exposure compensation abbreviated before and it threw me for a loop that early in the morning! My camera is set to the defaults for "portrait" with the exception of the saturation, that is the only thing set up +1 to give some pop to the images. I usually do that saturation boost in post so I wanted to do one less step when editing 700+ in a sitting! Anyways, I also just got Photoshop CS3 and the Camera RAW 4.1 is AWESOME. So many more settings and it is well done and handles all the noise issues no problem. It seems almost as if Camera Raw 3.x wasn't supporting the CR2 files properly and calculating the CMOS raw noise reduction when editing the photos... well whatever the case may be, I am a happy camper and thanks to all for your help.
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