 Pete H |
Just me? Greetings all, Hey, is it just me, but do many of you just skip over the questions where the "member since" shows todays date? LOL It seems the questions posted by these people are invariably ridiculous or intended to start a (brand war). Here are some of my favorites, feel free to add to the list. LOL 1) What's the best camera? Oh..This is probably my #1 favorite... "I need a camera and lens to shoot Landscapes, portraits, still life, sports etc...My budget is 500 dollars; what is the best?" Hope you all at least smile. Pete
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John Rhodes |
Pete, I agree with your observations. We have seen some really squirrelly questions, obviously meant to get something started. I go a bit further--I don't often trust questioners with no images in a BP gallery. John
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Todd Bennett |
Pete, I have to agree. I think the #1 is "Which camera is better, the Nikon**** or the Cannon****?" Talk about starting a war! Geez! John, I agree with "I don't often trust questioners with no images in a BP gallery," but, in light of some recent events here I decided to take all of mine out.
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Rob Zuidema |
They're also the ones asking questions straight off their photography tests.
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Mark Feldstein |
Yep. I'm doing it. Most of the time I won't answer a question from someone who hasn't been here longer than 30 days. that's kind of reassurance that they can find this place again to look at whatever answers we may post. I also agree with what Todd mentioned. I think those kinds of questions are posted by bored kids. As to what Rob and John said, I get tired of doing someone elses homework, especially when I know the answer is already here somewhere. That's a sign of the times, I guess. As to no images, I give them a pass on that one. Some people just don't have the means to digitize their images or do what's necessary to post them, I guess. Lastly, I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting really tired of the pop-ups, ads, and seeing pix of Jim Miotke pasted all over. This has become a site strictly to hook people on their courses. Really nothing more than that. I wonder what B.P. gets for commissions or fees from the guys teaching the courses. Any one know? Jim?? Kerry? Class???...Anyone????
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
So does that mean we only answer questions that are listed below the "Intergrated Readings" question, so it will get pushed down to the back pages?
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Mike Rubin |
I'm spend less and less time here. Here is a great forum, mostly Canon users (equipmnet talk is Canon focused) but everyone is welome. It's a mature group of people http://photography-on-the.net/forum/ Here is another good one, Once again a mature group. http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/
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Sharon Day |
Pete, my favorite question happened only a few days ago, "Should photographers have a license?" Very entertaining to say the least. I have to confess I enjoyed that one. I like the forum here. Sometimes the entertainment value is just priceless. A couple of days ago I posted a brief community service type of message for anyone comparision shopping for a macro lens. I immediately had a hit by one of the local wisenheimers. I thought his observations about my camera skills was pretty funny. I can't be bothered to respond to these jokers anymore though. Mark, I hope you don't ever get fed up and move on but if it ever happens I could certainly understand. I always value your willingness to help out on legitimate questions!
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Bob Cammarata |
...so which camera IS best? (now you got me curious.) :)
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chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny Contact Chris Budny Chris Budny's Gallery |
If the question has a hint of antagonism to it, and they are a "newer" member, yeah, I always ignore them. However, I think the bulk of questions from brand-new members (ie, questions that are not really antagonistic, but may be viewed as "uneducated" by more seasoned members) are from folks who find this site via say, a Google search for their broad question or two, and they create a free account that day, in order to post their question here whether or not they intend to participate as an active member of BP. (Rather than say, reading through the forums, or trying the Camera Selector feature, etc.---just easier and lazier to ask, and wait for an answer to come to you.) I think sometimes, they are posted by students--we've all seen questions like "What are the 5 mechanical ways an image can be recorded in photography?" Why read your textbook, when someone online can type the answer for you? ;) Maybe I'm naive, and those kind of questions like "My first wedding shoot is in 5 minutes---what lens?" are designed by juvenile posters to make trouble---we all know there are a handful of juvenile adults on BP---rather than being a question from someone who is hopelessly in over their head, and thinks a few short answers will produce a nice wedding album... Regardless, I don't bother with those kinds of questions, either.
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Sharon Day |
LOL Bob! How about none of the cameras are best?? I know a guy that had EXPENSIVE Nikon gear and swapped it all out for Canon then I know of another guy that has EXPENSIVE Canon gear and wants to swap it out for Pentax. Me, I just want one of each ;)! Pete, I had forgotten this last night but THE #1 forum argument is film vs digital. You can't beat that one!
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Irene Troy |
I guess I have a little different take on this issue. I do resent the high number of questions that appear to be posted with the sole purpose of starting a flame and it irritates me when someone posts a “new” question that has already been answered many times. To me it is the height of rudeness to not even take the time to search the current pages for your question. I have probably been guilty of this, but I at least try a search before posting my question. The other thing that hits me wrong is when someone posts a question that obviously comes from a class – whether that class is in a high school, college or wherever. Come on folks! Do your own homework! Having stated all of this, I rarely ignore a post solely because the person is new. Sure, just about everyone here has been burned by some idiot who posts simply to generate a meaningless argument or to make the replier look the fool (hardly). But, at the same time, a real newbie might ask an obvious question that is not so obvious to them. Being rude or argumentative to a newbie is hardly what I hope this site is about. Every one of us, no matter our skill level today, started out as a newbie at some point. We asked dumb questions and failed to get the obvious. When new people come to this site, I would hope that we would make them welcome and try to offer the help they need without making them feel bad in the process. If you are too busy or don’t care to help, well, then don’t help. But, please do not be rude or condescending either. For the most part I do look at poster’s galleries before following their advice. However, there are several really good people here who, for whatever reason, do not have galleries. To discount their contributions because there is no gallery can be a mistake. Yes, there are trouble makers here and on every other site on the ‘net. These people exist in “real life” also and the only solution that works, at least in my experience, is to ignore them. Too many folks here respond to the idiocy with further posts. The greatest reward the trouble maker can receive is to know that what s/he posts has generated hard feelings or that it has caused yet another person to leave this site. Mark – you know that I have great respect for you and your work. However, I have to disagree with you about the classes and how this site is being run. You might be surprised to learn that, for me, the classes are the reason why I keep coming. After 7 BP classes I can say that these offerings are extremely worthwhile! What I have learned from people like Tony Sweet, Jennifer Wu, Kerry Drager and Brenda Tharp has helped me to become a much better photographer and to finally get to the pro time. I’ve taken classes elsewhere, but keep coming back here because the classes, so far, beat anything else I have found online. If the cost of running this site involves promoting those classes throughout the site…well, that cost is well worth it to people like me. Now, I’ve gotta go battle the heat and humidity and interview some joker who thinks that we should eliminate all technology from the planet – I’m serious! Irene
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Sharon Day |
Irene, I get why Pete asked this question. I took it more as a joke than a serious gripe about the forum. Maybe I just take things too lightly anymore, I dunno, but I kinda think Pete's LOL's gives the reader an indication he's not really being too serious. I totally agree about ignoring the trouble makers. I used to repond to all the nonsense but it gets tiresome after a while. I did a self evaluation :o) a while back and decided my ego isn't such I have to argue my point after offering an opinion about something. And I totally don't care anymore if someone disagrees with me. It doesn't change my mind in the least so end of discussion as far as I'm concerned. If everyone was like me the forum might be pretty boring though LOL. You bring up a very valid point about doing a search before asking a question. I have a feeling a lot of people don't even think of that until they've been chewed on a couple of times in some forum. I usually at least do a brief search before posting a question and then make mention I searched first to avoid the sarcastic and useless responses referring the poster to the search engine. And there's always someone around that doesn't seem to mind responding to the mundane questions that's been asked hundreds of times so I think it's nice those individuals are around. Hey, good luck in the battle with the technically challenged LOL.
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Shannon Isley |
I have been a visitor of bp for over a year now; enjoying the posts, pictures and experience of others. As a "member since 6/15/07" with no pictures loaded, thanks to all who were kind enough to answer a couple of questions.
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Ariel Lepor |
The thing is, the real beginners with no account may really need the answers, so they make an account and start asking questions. I'm sure there was a time when everyone in this thread was one day old. So, it's mean to ignore new members, but if their questions look probably like they are not important/serious, then being new is something to watch for. (But it is true, I've seen many people make new accounts just to make some trouble.) Ariel
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Pete H |
My friends, I would NEVER intentionally ignore a "new" member to BP...unless of course I did not know the answer or felt my advice would be less than helpful. I was speaking of "new" member questions that ring of familiarity (i.e) they change their log in names...Their writing style is easily ID'd etc... I never have taken the stance that any question is unworthy of an answer. My suspicions are indeed raised when I see a combination of things that just don't add up. 1) Brand spanking new member "What is the best f/stop to use for sharp photos?..and how do I figure out the circle of confusion?" You gotta' be kidding me with a question like that! A "newbie" to photography would NOT ask such a question. These people pose questions; yet betray themselves. I will not answer such a question. 3)Film Vs Digital? 4) Nikon or Canon? Same thing! Concerning # 3 and 4...Get on the freakin' internet and do a search! I think what you all are witnessing here is my total frustration wading thru posts to find a REAL beginner or somewhat intermediate; that ACTUALLY wants advice! Myself and a few others here are also members of one or two newsgroups that cater only to professionals, but ALSO verify the identity of the poster as a pro as well as requiring admission guidelines to the newgroup owner. I have never seen idiots, flakes or insincere people in these few groups..and IF one is in violation; they are promptly kicked off! Would it not be nice if BP could at least verify IP addresses so multiple accts are disallowed? It is do-able! Someone asked if Mark is fed up? Personally, I love the ability of the internet to find answers..NOT opinions when it comes to technical issues. How do I spot a sincere poster? Usually they email me..and I am more than happy to lend a hand and/or render advice. I've only been on here since 2005..I really don't remember this many suspicious posts when I started. BP..wake up! Keep your forums strong by a little more policing of authentic posts!
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Sharon Day |
Well now I'm completely confused, Pete. Your post seemed to begin in a light hearted manner with the LOL's but the tone of your recent post is not light hearted at all. I'm really beginning to find forums tiresome all the way around. Nothing changes and probably never will. Good luck and happy shooting to you all!
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Pete H |
Sharon, Yep..it did start out light hearted; but now I see my initial comments are echoed by more than just a few; and with elaboration. Is not this the truth behind what is being said? Mt point being; if BP can't police the members of the forums by IP identity; what do you think will happen? I know. All the peopole with skill and experience will go elsewhere; leaving newbies to answer the questions of newbies..It's already happening, and it IS a shame. Pete
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Sharon Day |
I agree Pete, it is a shame when the newbies can't find their answers and as much as I read I still occasionally run up against questions I can't find in books or online by doing Google searches. Hopefully new and experienced members will take up the cause for those who are too weary or fed up to bother with it anymore. I have visited the site for a few years now and have tried to respond to questions within my expertise, but lately I have asked myself the question "why bother?" when confronted with the wisenheimers that troll the forum. I don't need to argue with these guys to feel good about myself. IMHO it is a sure sign of low self esteem when someone has to belittle another person to boost their ego.
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Ariel Lepor |
I see what you are saying, Pete. There sure are lots of new accounts that ask questions when they should know to just google it when they want to get that info. And I agree, a newbie probably won't know what the circle of confusion is to ask about it. But suppose he heard about it and wants to get more info from real people?
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Irene Troy |
Pete – I certainly understand, and, at least to some degree, agree with your attitude toward the idiots who troll the ‘net looking for sites such as BP to create some type of disorder. It can be incredibly frustrating when you see the same type posts, over and over again, being made by the same poster under a new name. It is equally frustrating and anger producing when someone with more time than sense decides to post an obviously meant to provoke question. I am equally irritated by the endless debate between digital and film and Canon versus Nikon. I mean, come on people, make your choice and stop trying so hard to change other people’s opinions. If you want to know how I like my Canon 5D, I’ll be happy to answer. But, if you want me to tell you that I think that Canon is better than Nikon – forget about it! After almost 26 years working with child victims of abuse and trauma, it takes a lot to get me hot and bothered. The annoying posts here just don’t get my ire up – or, at least not often. I also belong to two different web forums for writers and this type stuff happens there also. Both of these forums are supposedly for pros only and both screen. However, the occasional fool gets loose and for a time we have to cope with general idiocy. Personally, most of it slides off my back without sticking. On occasion, I do get worked up and allow myself to be sucked into the general melee of angry retorts, but not often. As a writer, I am pretty strongly against any type of censorship. I rather like the fact that anyone can access this forum and post a question. Yes, sometimes this results in some insanity and nastiness, but this seems the price we pay for having a general access forum. I suspect that the way to improve our experience at BP is to ignore those posts that appear provocative, argumentative or just down right stupid. Why even get into this type of post? Once people stop responding the poster will go elsewhere to create havoc. Letting him/her know that you are upset will only fuel the continuing saga. Irene
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Sharon Day |
"I suspect that the way to improve our experience at BP is to ignore those posts that appear provocative, argumentative or just down right stupid. Why even get into this type of post? Once people stop responding the poster will go elsewhere to create havoc. Letting him/her know that you are upset will only fuel the continuing saga." This is so true Irene! Years ago when I was involved in chat rooms they had "ignore" features where you could put someone you didn't like on ignore. Anyone with some self control can still do that. Just ignore the jokers that want to stir the pot.
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Mark Feldstein |
Howdy Sharon. I don't know, but I seem to be getting dangerously close. There's always e-mail. Irene, to paraphrase Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, Sr. "Dese idiots aren't here to create disorder. Dey're here to PRESERVE disorder." [Speaking of the cops at the 1968 Democratic Convention] LOL !!! Hey Todd, GREAT question. I think the answer is ANY film camera. ROFL!!! Photo.net anyone?
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Mark Feldstein |
Oh, Sharon, I forgot. I think PARENTS should be required to have a license BEFORE being allowed to have KIDS who are too lazy to do their own homework, go around leaping to mistaken conclusions, and repeatedly ask the same STUPID questions. Whaddya think? M.
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Sharon Day |
LOL Mark! A novel idea! Glad I'm past that age anyway :o)!
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Todd Bennett |
LOL Mark. I think next time I see that question I'll respond neither and direct them the Kodak Instamatic or the Brownie.
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Mark Feldstein |
Let's see....where'd I put those boxes of 620 and 127 film.....? We're all still kids at heart, Sharon. :>)
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Todd Bennett |
Pete, Another thing that gets me about this entire thing is the lack of a simple "Thanks" from the posters. It seems as though these people expect an answer without the common courtesy to tell the responders thanks. It's as though they think they are owed an answer just because they make a post. A lot of posters do say thanks; but, an ever increasing number don't. Is it "Just Me?"
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Bunny Snow |
In my personal opinion, having been a Nikon user, I find that my Canon's (Elan 7E film and Canon 20D) meter better than my film camera, the Nikon FM3A, which I last used. Even when I carefully measured my light with both an internal and external flash meter, my exposures with the Nikon were not as well targeted as with the Canons. But technically, I cannot tell you the reason.
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Ariel Lepor |
Bunny, are you sure you posted in the right question?
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Bunny Snow |
Ariel, I did not read the full statement that was posted. :-[ Thank you for the correction.
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Ariel Lepor |
Oh, I see, you were answering the example questions. lol :-)
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Bunny Snow |
Pete, What is "invariably ridiculous" to accomplished photographers, is not ridiculous for those trying to find their way in digital photography. Example: I've been doing film photography just about all my life. But, I've only been in digital since mid-2005. Digital I've learned after the fact, is far more than capturing digital images be it with a point and shoot or Canon 5D. There are lessons to learn and understand, as well as software to purchase to allow creations to occur. So what seems lame or ridiculous to photographers in the know, is not to those wanting to learn more. I personally think that the unthinking repetition of praise without specifics, which is layered on various levels of contest winners is lame, at best. But, that's just my opinion.
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Samuel Smith |
i just wanted to tag this to get a link. not that i've enjoyed this babbling(wink,wink). now if a southbound train is traveling?? now a shot at bunny without even trying to be mean or condecending. ya missed the point. software for creation?is that like stem cell recearch?pbs? disclaimer:all posts are welcome,all q's are welcome,all opinions are welcome.... now.what do we do? we as members can vote as to changes can't we?well.. as a child I was told what was fair,and then to find out fair vs kinda cheating(software)...(art,photography). (nice photo,eh)?? unsighned..
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