BetterPhoto Q&A
Category: New Answers

Photography Question 

Michelle R. Kovach
 

Banner Crazy!


Okay, I logged into my gallery this morning to load an image & I got smacked in the face with this HUGE banner in there that's taking up half the page! I was not happy one bit!
I commented on a picture & Bam, there's another HUGE banner at the top of the page just after you comment!
I went to browse the recent entries & dang if there's not another one on there on the right side of the images blinking at me & yet another one on the bottom of the page! They are all animated & take up about 1/4 of the page!

Look, I know this is how BP makes money by advertising their courses, their premium galleries & websites, but c'mon this is getting a little much!

I'd almost rather they go back to the smaller ones that were in the middle of the contest entries if this is the way they are headed with this. One Banner on the Homepage & one at the bottom of the page of the recent contest entries I think is MORE than Enough! If we have to have the banners can they at least be Static & NOT Animated?

I'd just like to ask one thing, Can you PLEASE keep the banners OUT of the Members Center's!?!? It's enough that they are all over everything else now & I'd really rather NOT have to look at them when I go to try & upload a picture or rearrange my gallery or website!

Does anyone else feel this way or am I alone here? Feel free to chime in!

Michelle


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April 26, 2007

 

John Caruso
  I've noticed that, too. The one in particular I find curious is the one that now sits in the member center. If one is using a free gallery, I can certainly understand having the advertising. However, for paid galleries, I feel it's intrusive.


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April 26, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  I agree completely John! Not to mention it takes up HALF the entire page & squishes all the important links over to the side & makes it even harder to read & follow them.


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April 26, 2007

 
- Dr Silly

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Dr Silly
Dr Silly's Gallery
  This is funny Michelle. I never noticed the banners untill you said something. As for that banner in the Members Center, I don't remember what was there. And I think you are sweating the small stuff. But that is your right. And I sorry it makes you up set. All BP is trying to do is run a busness.

I only focus on the photos, so maybe that is why I don't notice the adds.

What is good is that you can have your say. I would also go live and tell them how you feel and e-mail Heather.

Doc


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April 26, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  It's hard to miss the new ones Doc!

I think if you pay for the gallery & the site & what not here on BP you shouldn't have to have them in your member/admin centers! As John said they are quite intrusive.


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April 26, 2007

 

Marie Fields
  I totally agree with you, Michelle! I'm almost to the point of discontinuing my gallery and leaving bp altogether... the ads are completely out of control! We should at least have some say about what is displayed in our member center space and should not have to be hit over the head with these marketing banners at every turn. I used to love to browse this site but hardly ever take the time to "wade through" it any more. I know change is inevitable and I do try to adjust... but like you said, Michelle, we are paying members and should at least have some control over what is displayed in "our personal space" that we pay for.


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April 26, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  I agree Marie! We used to have a choice about if we wanted ads in our galleries or our space & now we don't.
I don't know if I am to the point where I would leave, but if it came down to it & push came to shove, I just might!


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April 26, 2007

 

Tonya R. Boles
  I agree Michelle. And took the time last night to ask about it. Without much help, other than the usual I'll pass it on reply. This is my space, and at one time you had the option to display ads if you wanted to. While that is still there, its pointless. The ones they are adding now, you can't get rid of. I understand the need to advertise, but as Marie said, do you have to hits us over the head with them???
("you buy a gallery so you can share your work. you upgrde from a free website to paid to get rid of them. so why are they in OUR SPACE")


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April 26, 2007

 

Suzanne Colson
  I can say I like some of the changes. But the banners on MY member center page?? Way overboard!!!!!! I agree on putting it on the members that don't have Premium and above galleries. I don't want to go so far to say that I will stop my membership because I love many other aspects of this site, but hopefully they will listen.


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April 26, 2007

 

Suzanne Colson
  Hard to say if the banners are having any impact on the the BP site speed given the finalists and winners were just announced, but I think over the last month the speed as decreased greatly. There are many times when I click on a photo or discussion and wait and wait and wait!!!! If the banners are part of the problem they really need to go!!


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April 26, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  Very good point Tonya & Suzanne! We PAY for them to give us more space & to be able to elminate the ads in the freebie galleries & we did used to have the option to display them when & if we chose to. Now though I think it's gotten out of hand! Like I said earlier ONE on the Current contest entries at the BOTTOM of the page & ONE on the homepage is fine! All this is doing is creating unnecessary static & problems.
Many people's browsers cannot display the ads & it ends up crashing their browser. Not to mention those poor people who are still on Dial-up or the people using Internet cafes & Libraries to access the site. A lot of those places will Block websites because of the banners & the ads! Is that what BP really wants? Is to drive people away or have them block their site because they are over doing the advertisments on here?
There is such a thing as overkill & I for one feel like this is too much!

As Marie & you Both have pointed out we do not need to be Hit over the head with these banners & ads.

To me instead of making me want to buy a gallery or take a course, it makes me want to avoid things because you can't get away from it.

Changing the contest pages was one thing, & yes, you can see the photos better, but people from what I am hearing still only browse back about 10-12 pages at most & before that took care of the whole day. Now to do the whole day you would have to go about 50 pages & I for one don't have that kind of time to sit in front of the computer & as Marie said "Wade Through" that many pages of ads as well!

Suzanne, I'm with you, I hope they listen.
I too have noticed the decrease in the speed of the site, not to mention that sometimes the pages just don't load at all.

It's very frustrating!

I can tell you this though & I know I am not the only one. If the ads ever start going from just on the bp site & spill over into MY personal Professional Website which I purchase from BP or if they ever become Pop-up Ads, I would Leave BP & Take my site somewhere else. I know I'm not the only one too!
They'd be in a heap of trouble!


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April 26, 2007

 

Sharon Day
  I can't complain. I have a free gallery until 2016. Typically when new ads are introduced it takes me a while to get used to them then it's business as usual.


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April 26, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  I agree about the banners and advertising. It is a littl overboard and intrusive on all levels. Commenting is a chore just trying to get thru all the entries. I love the larger thumbnails, but maybe a little smaller and more on each page and smaller banners.......
Just my opinion.


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April 26, 2007

 

Samuel Smith
  i think it's in your member center there is a box which you must uncheck that will disallow the advertising.


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April 26, 2007

 

Marie Fields
  I was hoping I had just missed something there, Samuel...but I just checked and my box is marked for NO ads so apparently that only applies to ads other than bp...


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April 26, 2007

 

Datha Y. Thompson
  Well the ads/banners don't really bother me, however I would like the option there to turn them off/on....


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April 26, 2007

 
- Dennis Flanagan

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Dennis Flanagan
Dennis Flanagan's Gallery
  The place in the Member Center where the banner is placed was blank white space before, wasn't it? If so, no harm.


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April 26, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  It just keeps getting worse! I just saw the new bp homepage.


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April 27, 2007

 
- Dennis Flanagan

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Dennis Flanagan
Dennis Flanagan's Gallery
  Why is different worse? It will take some getting used to, but for $22 a year, I can live with it.


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April 27, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  I think at this time, BP is more interested in selling their site, than the contest and our entries. It is overkill on all these banners and such.
Now, even the winners, are shown in a different place and not very important. Sure is a disappointment for me. I think the friendlyness of BP has gone away and it's ALL about "selling". I have been on this site since 2003 and have seen so many people leave this site and go to others.
I think it's pretty important to keep your customers happy, and I think the "customers" are getting fed up.
Please Jim, please listen to some of the comments that your customers are making!!!!!!!! I too have a beautiful website with BP and hope the advertising does not show up on that too!!!!!


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April 27, 2007

 

Marie Fields
  I agree, Charlene... I used to send people to this site all the time but never even mention it to anyone any more. It's embarrasing. I'd feel like I was trying to sell them a class if I invited someone to check out my images here! So I send them to other sites to see my work....


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April 27, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  And which sites are those Marie? I'd be interested in knowing.


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April 27, 2007

 
- Dr Silly

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Dr Silly
Dr Silly's Gallery
  I like the new home page it is colorful and informative about the site. The thing I do not like about it is how they are now showing the Betterphoto contest Winner. :O)


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April 27, 2007

 

Andy
  Although I don't like those ads on many other sites, I have to say that this site is an exception. It's only one banner on the top and I have to admit the banner is tastefully done. Just look at the colors. The one on the member's home page is just taking up the white spaces so no big deal. I would not say I "like" them. Hey, this is a commercial site and they have to get the "message" out. This is only my opinion.


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April 27, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  I agree with you Charlene & Marie.
BP used to be Beautiful & now with all the ads it's starting to look like a Banner Farm, not to mention the ads are so big that you pretty much can't even see the pictures. It doesn't matter what color they are & the fact that they are animated causes a problem for lots of people, especially those in the places I said yesterday.

I also saw what they did to the website last night & they have made the Contest winners nearly Miniscule on the page. That was one thing that got me so mad! People work hard here to take beautiful photos & to earn a badge or medal in winning the contest & then they make it so insignificant on the homepage that to me it felt like the win didn't really matter!

Look, bottom line here, I've never once said that they had to get rid of all the ads. I know that's how they make money because this IS a business. All I said was if we have to have them make them smaller, decrease the number of them & get them OUT of the Premium Member's galleries & websites! That was all I asked in the very beginning. Just keep them out of My space & my premium paid for sites.


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April 27, 2007

 

Tonya R. Boles
  AMEN SISTA!!!

I agree 100%


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April 27, 2007

 

Suzanne Colson
  I do have to say that the colors are very tastefully done. Most other ad/banner sites are terrible looking. My hats off to the design team on this part. The contest winner resize is very, very disappointing. You used to be able to refresh the page and see a new photo. Now you just see the same one over and over. I am sure they probably cycle throughout the day. Who knows. If they are pushing taking better pictures I would think they should show some of the incredible shots that are won in this contest. I know that is what prompted me to take a class.


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April 27, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  Exactly Suzanne! If people can't see the picture they aren't going to want to invest money into taking a class! After all isn't that the whole point of these crazy banners in the first place is to make you want to BUY a class or a Website?
If you can't see the pictures why would you invest money in a class that is supposed to make you a better photographer? Hello??????
New people don't care about the instructors so much as they do about their own pictures!
To a New person on BP the instructor's faces plastered all over the place will mean nothing because they have no reputation with that person! All they care about is learning how to take a better picture for themselves & if you take away or minimize everything that would get their attention to show them the type of pictures they could be taking on BP if they took a class, then what's the point? The Contest Winners on the Homepage before yesterday everyone could Clearly see & they all could comment on that person's picture.
Now that you can't see any new pictures or the contest winners, how are they going to know?


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April 27, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  In my opinion,after being a member here for a few years, the contest and photographs from the members,do not make money,so,therefore,the advertising has taken over the real main idea here....for photographers to enter their best or favorite and getting some recognition for it.
I guess eventually, this will be a site strictly for classes and buying books, etc., and not about the original idea of a exciting contest and meeting other people with the same interests as you.
I would Jim would see this thread and respond to it. Not shove it under the carpet, is did BP on the stealing of other peoples photographs a couple of weeks ago. I, myself,was pretty disappointed about that and not quite fair to Scott.


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April 27, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  Let's keep other threads out of this one please. I don't want this one to go off on a wild tangent or turn into an arguement. that wasn't my point in the first place. I just wanted to know how & what others thought about the fact that the ads had become an overabundance.

I've already said my feelings about the ads & I left it with the bottom line stated above.

As most businesses get bigger they do focus more on the $ aspect of things. I know it takes a lot to keep BP going & I know that they have a lot that goes on behind the scenes. I would not want to know the amount of things we don't see.

Like I said before my whole point was if we have to have them, can they please be smaller & not in the premium spaces!?


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April 27, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  Michelle, you right....sorry about the other subject.
I still hope Jim sees this thread and acts on it or at least gives us an update on what or if they can do something about these ads.


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April 27, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  Thanks Charlene.
I'm not sure if they even read these, & I didn't send it in via the contact or live help.


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April 27, 2007

 

Andy
  Michelle, I agree with you that I would like to see more of the photos taken by the teachers than the teacher's faces ;)


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April 27, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  I agree Andy. If they are the instructors I want to see some of their best stuff too.


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April 27, 2007

 

Marianne Fortin
  I agree that the banner is obtrusive but as long as they don't start putting ads in our galleries I can ignore it, like I try to ignore all website ads.

The problem I always have with any advertising is that the more annoying the ads are the less likely I am to buy the product. I'm sure everyone here knows that BP sells courses, I have been thinking of taking one soon myself. Bombarding us constantly can be counter productive and just drive people away.


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April 27, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  I agree Marianne.
Like Marie said, we don't need to be hit over the head with it.


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April 27, 2007

 

Suzanne Colson
  They do listen...Check out the home page. The contest winners are back. Much, much better!!! I can live with the banner ad on my Premium page about the upcoming conference. (Probably because I would love to go!!!)


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April 27, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  The contest picture is the same size as it was last night only in a different place & it doesn't change. I hit refresh like 4 times & it was still the same first place picture by Nick.
I at least like that picture of the lady with the camera better than the other that was up there.


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April 27, 2007

 

Susan Fox
  The banners have gotten a little out of hand. But I can't complain since I won my gallery and didn't have to pay for one. I would hand over some money though if it would get rid of the ads.

I do realize the site must cost a lot of money to run. But I wish they would
find a way to advertise without being quite so "pushy" about it.

I also miss the old home page. Maybe they can feature 3 winning photos that rotate. And add the line "You can take photos like this! Click here to learn how"


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April 27, 2007

 

Michelle R. Kovach
  Good idea Susan.
Maybe they can incorporate that into the new design.


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April 27, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  Maybe someone can explain where the winners and finalists went.
You keep clicking on the one picture and it's great for Nick, as his is the only picture that comes up.


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April 27, 2007

 

Samuel Smith
  there is no advertising in my gallery,i just checked.zero,none.nada..
I also disagree charlene.you posted with a point that closely relates to the advertising which is about income.not at all off subject.
since some of us don't enter the contest why should we pay for the stupid hassle and cost.i'll leave the who cares thing alone at this point.
entry feee for contest=a hundred bucks,per photo.
so ya still wanna enter 30 a month and play the odds?are ya listening jim?
income goes up,ads goes down.
I would like to see a mentor series.once a member for a year you get assigned a new member seeking photographic knowledge.well f/stops, stupid shutter speed questions.
might be more of a hoot than finalists,a challenge as to knowledge and help to promote a dedicated site which has helped so many.
I have been blessed with so many photos of many things people have sent me.a 360 view of paris at night with french music playing in the background.
mars rover pics.fjords,and many many others.
I say quit asking for more,give more.
let's hear it.


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April 27, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  Sam, I'm not sure what you just said!!!


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April 27, 2007

 
BetterPhotoJim.com - Jim Miotke

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Jim Miotke
Jim Miotke's Gallery
  Hi everyone,

Thanks for your feedback. We of course read your comments because we value what you have to say, because we want BetterPhoto to be the best place it can be.

Our driving mission - BetterPhoto's reason for existing - is to encourage people to say "Yes!" to their creative dreams. This is WHY we do what we do. However, the fact remains that BetterPhoto is a business (with expensive bills to pay) and must therefore make at least a little revenue to continue.

The banner ads on the BP pages may be annoying to some and we care about your experience. We of course want everyone to enjoy sharing photos, making friends, and feel inspired by the great photos we see here at BetterPhoto. That's why, as a standard, we make sure our ads are tastefully done and honest. We do not allow annoying pop-up ads, big red flashing font, or deceptive ads (E.g. "Your hard drive is about to crash... click here").

However, test after test tells us that new people who come to BetterPhoto often don't understand what services and products we offer. The ads are necessary to help everyone learn about BetterPhoto's great features.

So these beautiful ads are here to stay. And if you really love BetterPhoto, you'll continue to tell your friends and family about BP so we can continue to build on this great idea - bringing people from all around the world together to learn and enjoy photography.

Having said that, allow me to clarify some errors in the above statements:

1) When you have a Premium BetterPholio (whether you pay for it or win it in the contest), you DO have the ability to turn off ads - on your Premium gallery pages. The ads are not in paying members Premium galleries or websites, unless the member opts in (because they want to help support BetterPhoto). By default, your pages do not have ads. The Member Center is seen by both paying and non-paying members so we need to utilize these pages to tell our members about our exciting products and upcoming events.

2) Often when we try to raise awareness about our services, some people complain and say that we should just make them smaller, less obtrusive... in other words "make them invisible". This would clearly defeat the purpose. We will keep them ethical and tasteful, but they do need to be something a new visitor would actually see.

3) We are currently testing out new home page designs. For the next several days, some of you will see one home page and others will see another. On these designs, it's true that the contest image is smaller. More importantly, only one photo is showing during the test. Once the tests are over, we will resume rotating winning and finalist photos on the home page.

Also, the main contest page still shows a large contest winner. If you prefer to see this large version of the contest winners/finalists, you can simply bookmark http://www.betterphoto.com/contest.php and use it as your home page.

I appreciate your support as Team BetterPhoto continues to work around the clock to make this the best photography resource on the Web.

Thanks,
Jim Miotke


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April 28, 2007

 
- Carolyn M. Fletcher

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher
Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery
  Maybe people don't see them because they don't WANT to see them. I think we've mostly gotten to where we just tune out all ads automatically. Just a thought.


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April 28, 2007

 
chrisbudny.com - Chris Budny

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Chris Budny
Chris Budny's Gallery
  Thanks, Jim, for chiming in with the rundown on what's going on!


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April 28, 2007

 
- Dr Silly

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Dr Silly
Dr Silly's Gallery
  As Chris said thanks for giving us BetterPhoto's reasons for the changes. :O)


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April 28, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Gregory LaGrange
Gregory LaGrange's Gallery
  "not to mention the ads are so big that you pretty much can't even see the pictures."

Really?


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April 28, 2007

 

Sharon Day
  What everyone needs is a 24" monitor :D.

Nice shot of the cantelope, Gregory. You doing microstock now??


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April 28, 2007

 

Colleen Farrell
  If the real issue is the need to increase income, there are a lot of options available, it seems to me. One might be to offer cheaper (shorter) courses.

They could also increase the annual fee for Premium/Deluxe galleries. $30/year would be reasonable, I think.

I do think they could educate newcomers to BP's services without so many ads--particularly those that appear in Premium Gallery member centers.

(It seems fair to assume that by the time somebody's paid for, or won, a Premium Gallery they know what services BP offers ... if not, well, maybe the ads would be wasted on them anyway.)

One more thing--Jim commented that they do not allow pop-up ads, but if you look at a class and click on "learn more" to read more details about it, you get an instant message pop-up window that I personally find rather pushy and intrusive.

I do understand the need to educate and raise money for the site, but I have to say the many ads are beginning to get to me. Maybe I'll get used to them.


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April 28, 2007

 
BetterPhotoJim.com - Jim Miotke

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Jim Miotke
Jim Miotke's Gallery
  Hi Colleen,

When I go to a course and click to "Learn More", I do not see any pop-up ads. What is the exact URL that you are on when you see this? I know it's not a pop-up ad since we don't allow those but perhaps you are thinking of something else, like our proactive invitation to chat with our Live Help operators. This is just one of the many services we now offer in our efforts to go above and beyond when it comes to helping BetterPhoto visitors.

And the following statement is erroneous: "It seems fair to assume that by the time somebody's paid for, or won, a Premium Gallery they know what services BP offers". Again, ALL members see this area, even if all they have is a free gallery.

If anyone would like to pay more for their Premium gallery, pay to enter the contest, or just send us a check, feel free to do so. We would gladly accept such support. The address is at the bottom of our About Us page ;)

I think in truth most people would rather tolerate the ads, knowing they help increase awareness to new visitors, rather than donate large sums of money to help support the company.

To everyone reading this thread, I would ask you to think of what BetterPhoto brings to you. Here are a few things that come to my mind:

These are just a few of the things just off the top of my head. And honestly it makes my head spin just thinking about them. But that has been BetterPhoto's core belief from the beginning... that if you give generously, you will be reciprocally blessed.

We have been blessed. We have a great community, the best products and services, and a great team. We are now 25 strong, not including our 30+ instructors... and we all work extremely hard day in and day out to provide the very best we can provide.

I think BetterPhoto is doing a tremendous job bringing people together from all over the world to share their passion for photography. The foundation and core of BetterPhoto is that we support and encourage each other.

I encourage you all to count your blessings, think about what you love and appreciate, and actively help keep this idea growing. We need your support.


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April 28, 2007

 

Susan Fox
  Thanks for posting Jim :-) I think people just tend to get nervous when they see things changing.

I initially didn't like the ads on the contest photo pages. But I've gotten used to them now and they don't bother me as much any more.

I've taken 3 classes here at BP and was very pleased with them. I hope to take more classes in the future. And I recommend them to anyone I know who is interested in photography.

Of course I love the contest ;-) If you need to generate money for the site why not charge a yearly fee for the contest. A small amount like $5.00 a year. I'm sure everyone will be yelling at me for suggesting that one. But I don't see $5 as that much to spend every year to enjoy the contest.


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April 28, 2007

 

Sharon Day
  Jim, don't get discouraged. I don't know about everyone posting to this thead but I've checked out other photo contests and photography sites and this one wins hands down. A competing website offering lessons similiar to what BP offers, and which makes subtle digs at other websites offering lessons is BORING! Very boring. AND I can't win anything at other contest sites so I'm not complaining about this one LOL.


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April 28, 2007

 

Susan Fox
  I've taken classes at BP and one at another online photo place. And I agree with Sharon, BP classes win hands down.

The layout here (for the classes and everything else) is not only pleasing to look at but also very easy to use. I'm a web designer, so I know just how hard that is to achieve.


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April 28, 2007

 

Colleen Farrell
  Jim, please don't take my comments as a criticism of the entire Betterphoto site and what it offers--that was *not* my intention at all.

I also hope you're not offended by my income-generating ideas--I tend to do that, having worked in fundraising/advertising for ten years or so. But I'm no expert! :)

This thread was initially about the increased ads, and as I mentioned, I may yet get used to them.

Regarding ads in the Member Center of premium galleries, I believe someone stated that members who buy a Premium gallery should, in this person's opinion, not see ads in their Member Center, because they have paid for the gallery.

That's all I was referring to--whether *paying* members in particular should, or need to, see the ads in their Member Center.

As for the "proactive invitation to chat with our LiveHelp operators," (or "instant message pop-up window" as I called it), I drifted onto that subject simply because it's another new feature I'm not wild about.

But you're absolutely right, it's not an ad. It's only similar to a pop-up ad in that it pops up.

Anyway, it's just one *small* part of Betterphoto that I'm not fond of, and I'm just one of thousands of Betterphoto members who really like and appreciate this site, despite some minor changes we may need to adjust to.

Thanks for "listening," and for your thoughtful responses to this thread!



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April 28, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Gregory LaGrange
Gregory LaGrange's Gallery
  The member center seems like the back office of a gallery, where all the paper work on the desk, filing cabinets, itinerary on the computer. Away from the gallery with all the art work on display. An add on that versus paying more. Isn't that a no-brainer or is it just me?




""not to mention the ads are so big that you pretty much can't even see the pictures."

C'mon, really?


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April 28, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Gregory LaGrange
Gregory LaGrange's Gallery
  By the bi, if you want to look at the instructors pictures, how come you haven't gone to look at them?


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April 28, 2007

 

Brinn MacDougall
  For me, well let's say I hate them! All the movement around the picture I'm trying to comment on makes me sick to my stomach..truely! I get motion sick and it's very hard to stay very long on this site.
That's my two cents, I won't be renewing my membership!!


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April 29, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  I'm taking a vacation from entering for a while also. It's hard to comment as there are so many pages you have to go thru and very time consumming. And I know this is a business and BP wants to make as much money as possible, but in the meantime, as pretty as the ads may be, they are so big and inrusive and I think, it has taken away from the fun and joining in at BP. I wish I could afford to take a class, but unfortunately, I can't.
I do have my website with BP and I love my website and it is great for my advertising purposes and to send my clients to, where they can see my work.
But, I'm sorry Jim, but I can't see advertising BP on my website with all your ads.....It doesnt mean I havent supported BP....
I've always enjoyed entering the contest, winning or not winning, and meeting such fun people. But I guess it's time to take a break and try some other avenues.
Jim, I do wish you well and hope you succeed in whatever it is you want to do with your site.
Charlene


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April 29, 2007

 

KV Day
  Maybe I'm thick minded, but I knew coming in this was a business with whom I "rent" a small space for $22 a month just to place some of my photos. I don't remember signing up to "no BP" adds on my rented space. I have minimal time to spend looking at pics or pages for that matter. I did see the new home page (hated it btw :)) but thats not up to me and I can't speak for someone just coming to BP that is new. I would think if you want a add free zone, get a better gallery, thats what they are there for. I have had my photos, seen and asked to be sold by galleries and my photos to be used on literary websites. Without BP, I would have never had those opportunities. So BP, thanks! As far as classes go, I am single income and really can't afford the classes or I would take some on composition so no classes for me. I think you have to ask yourself, why am I here? I don't do the "post on my I'll post on yours", but I do enjoy the opportunities BP provides to show my work. I would rather have BP adverties the crap out of "their" website and stay around then go belly up as too many sites do. As I would everyone knows, to make money, you need to always grow and reinvent yourself. That is all BP is doing, cut them some slack. I have noticed that people are spending more time looking at the editors first choices then the overall contest entries, thinking they are a reward of somekind, which I understand they are not. I don't think that's a good thing. Just a thought.


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April 29, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  "But, I'm sorry Jim, but I can't see advertising BP on my website with all your ads...."

Meaning BP ads are appearing on your website or someplace on your website is telling people to go check out BP?


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April 29, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  No Gregory,that is NOT what I mean.This is what I mean in reply to Jim's paragraph.
"1) When you have a Premium BetterPholio (whether you pay for it or win it in the contest), you DO have the ability to turn off ads - on your Premium gallery pages. The ads are not in paying members Premium galleries or websites, unless the member opts in (because they want to help support BetterPhoto). By default, your pages do not have ads. The Member Center is seen by both paying and non-paying members so we need to utilize these pages to tell our members about our exciting products and upcoming events."
Gregory, I feel that Whoever sees my website sees BP is at the bottom of the page and when you click on that, you get to the contest. That is fine with me, but to add the ads that now appear on the HOme Page,etc., I would not "opt" to put them on my website, but it doesnt mean that I didnt support BP. I pay almost $200.00 each year for my website, and have all intentions of keeping my website with BP. But the only advertising, on my website, would be mine. I support BP just by paying for the webiste. Just that simple.....


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April 29, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  Ahh, gotcha.


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April 29, 2007

 

Mick Burkey
  To Jim Miotke, BP Staff and fellow BPers

I too have noticed the changes to BP over the last few weeks and want to add my comments. Keep in mind that what follows is my opinion and I mean no disrespect to anyone, but do feel that as a member of the BP community, I can air my opinions freely.

Many of the changes I think are good and add to the BP “experience”. The Editor’s Picks and the larger thumbnails in contest entry pages are two changes I think are good. But the change in the use of banners, I agree with many others, needs to be tweaked. I don’t mind the placement of many of these ads on the different pages, but do feel the large banner on my main control panel page serves no purpose and takes away from the real purpose of that page – for me to upload, edit, etc. But the biggest problem I have is with the new Home Page. I understand that Jim and BP are “testing” different formats and I haven’t seen them all, but I hope this one gets some major thought because I think you are really doing yourself a disservice with this change.

I have been in the visual advertising and marketing business for over 20 years, and in my opinion you have fallen into the typical mistake of thinking bigger (and more) is better. Have you ever bought a product or service because the ad was bigger? Or louder?

As I learned early on in advertising: “sell the sizzle, not the steak”. Sell the results, not the process. While taking a photo class is fun, the real goal is to know more about photography and to make better photos, is it not?

The new BP Home Page I see away from my home (I still see the old one at home, probably due to cookies on my home computer) shows a fairly large picture of Jim on the left, large and, quite honestly, old style link panels that say “LEARN”, “SHARE” and “DISCUSS” on the right, with the center used for the statement “you can take great pictures, be creative … anywhere, right now!” and the “learn how” hotlink. The only “better picture”, a contest winner (one, so far these past few days) is regulated to a small panel on the right with type I can hardly read and in a size that, if I were a newcomer to the site, I would probably not even notice due to size of the main images, Jim and the links. No offence to Jim, but I really don’t think a large picture of him and a lot of real estate taken up with links with a small, almost second-thought winner picture in the lower right sells much – except perhaps it sells Jim as the president.

What I do believe sells the site and the service is a large window with rotating “winning” images. As in the original home page. That is what sold me.

“WOW! That is a great picture! No wonder it won an award. How can I do that? Oh, here’s a bunch of links to more info about the site that hosts these winning images and how I can learn to make ‘Better Photos’. How COOL. I can be a part of this?! I’ll have to check this place out!”

I am a big supporter of BP and love the guts of the site. I have seen some amazing, inspiring images here, and met many wonderful people whom I now count as friends (of shared interests, if nothing else). And I hope these words are taken within the spirit of community in which they are intended. But I also understand this is a business. Jim and the BP staff will make decisions with the best interests of the business and the community at heart. And all of us members of the BP community will make our decisions based on our best interests, as well.

I have great respect for Jim and the BP staff for what they have created here and hope for its continued success at being the best photo sharing and learning site it can be. Good luck to you at BP and good picture making to the BP community.


Mick Burkey


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May 02, 2007

 
- Carolyn M. Fletcher

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  Mick, I don't know how anybody could have said it better. You have put our thoughts into print better with this one comment than all of the above put together. I whole heartedly agree.


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May 03, 2007

 

Irene Troy
  Mick did articulate his points very well and, IMHO, without offense to anyone, including Jim. There is one point that I have not seen yet on this thread. I originally came to BP in an effort to find an online class that would help me improve my photography. I was not interested in the contest at all, at least at that time. What originally caught my interest on the old home page (the one that existed at that time about four years ago) was the info on classes. It was very clearly mentioned and caught my eye immediately.

I have now taken six BP classes and hope to take more. I participate on this forum frequently and have found this to be a wonderful place to share and learn. Recently, a friend of a friend asked me where to go online to take a course in photography. Of-course, I recommended BP. Yesterday she told me that when she went to the home page she couldn’t find any info on classes and thought that I had given her a bad link. I took another look at the page myself, and it is somewhat confusing. The link to classes is now at the bottom and really doesn’t draw the eye. The smaller contest image also seems, to my eyes, less appealing. Frankly, I find the new design unappealing. If I were just surfing and came to the page I might not stick around long enough to figure out what the site had to offer. That would be a real shame, because BP really is the best place on the net to get photo advice and to learn.

Irene


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May 03, 2007

 
- Dr Silly

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  Maybe I a strange one. But I like the home. I do think Jim's photo and contest photo should change places. And to me the add for a free course is miss leading. In not way is it a free course, it is only a preview of what a course is like, you can only look.

Doc


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May 03, 2007

 

Michael Skelton .
  I have to agree Michele,I looked at a photo yesterday and seen this banner on the right hand side of the page bigger then the photo. As much as I hated it I have come to the realization that everyone does it now and you just can't escape it.We are constantly bombarded with sale pitches.

Everywhere on the internet is the same.You can't watch a sporting event without scrolling adds . The phone rings off the hook from sales people. The mail box is filled with ads.

Heck people are making money being walking talking human billboards. Its pollution. Businesses worry more about the possibilities of new customers then they do the ones they already have.

The only way it will ever be stopped is if everyone just stops using service's that cater to this. But I just don't see that happening.Its free ad space on your nickle.


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May 03, 2007

 

Steve M. Harrington
  Two things: Advertise if you wish. Lose the flashing ads. They drive me crazy! Find some way to speed up entry to and navigating within the site. I spoke with Live Help and was told that 3pm PST seems to be busy. From my experience over the last few months, and particularly recently, that problem can occur at any time of the day.


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May 03, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  I spent a couple hours the other day trying to explain to one of the web designers, that I don't want to go thru all the ads,etc., and all those extra steps,to just get into my website to upload a new photo. I was told to get used to the "changes". "Change is hard sometimes". Well, I was hoping Jim would pay some attention to this thread and to all the comments on the new ads,etc. To his customers who have been members for quite a while....
The home page is still the woman sitting on the couch with a camera taking a picture....that is what is showing up on my computer....the winners and finalists don't seem to be anywhere to be found in the easy way they were before.Advertising is great,but it seems to be overkill on BP now. But, I guess the choice is mine on whether I continue my advertising with my website,with BP. I really love my website and have confidence in the appearance,etc. But, to have to go thru the ads and pictures,etc.to get there seems to be a waste of time.
This is only my opinion and with no dis-respect in what I have to say. But, I am disappointed....
Thanks for listening.
Charlene Bayerle


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May 03, 2007

 
- Dr Silly

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  Charlene if you mark you Member Center as a favorite on you computer you can by past the home page and go to the members center to upload. :O)


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May 04, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  I have done that a dozen times and it still goes back to the new way of uploading. That's how it was in my favorites for 3 years now and that doesnt work anymore,unfortunately.
I should be able to go directly to my website upload page,into my website.


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May 04, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  I have my administration center bookmarked and the only thing there is an expiration reminder and a 15% off sign.
The administration center is different than the member center. Is that your pathway, because clicking on your website link goes to your website, no ads.


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May 04, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  Gregory, I have tried that over and over. I did have my website bookmarked and I always went directly into my website and now, I have to go thru the advertising and asking about a survey.


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May 04, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  Then the problem doesn't seem to be the ads. I get your website.


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May 04, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  I can get to my website too....I can't get to my website,upload page directly, like I did before they made these changes. I don't know how else to explain this.....My website pages are in black....so when I went to my "favorites","picturethisbychar.com", I went directly to the upload,in my admin. page.


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May 04, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  Do you get something that looks like this


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May 04, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  All I see is a red x.


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May 04, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  All I see is a red x.


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May 04, 2007

 

Diane Dupuis
  I think being able to store 300 photos for $22 a year is a steal. And seeing an ad for the upcoming BP conference when I sign in to my member center is not a big deal. I'm glad they keep reminding me. I hope to be able to go... But in the meantime no one sees ads on my gallery pages - and I can still see where I go to upload photos or organize my photos. It's moved over - but really it's not a big deal. I doubt there are other places that allow you so much for so little. It's really small stuff in the grand scheme of life... in my opinion anyhow.


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May 05, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  Diane, I pay almost $200 for one year for my website. And I feel I should be able to go directly to my website to upload,which is where I house all my photographs. I was able to do that before these changes were made and no,I don't want to have to go thru the extra steps to upload thru my website. I've always been able to do that and I should still be able to do that!!!!! I don't have time to go thru the extra steps every day....plain and simple is how I would like it again.
The old saying is "if it isnt broke, don't fix it"!!!


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May 05, 2007

 

Diane Dupuis
  Hi Charlene. I don't have the website so I don't know what's going on there.
I guess if I was paying 10 times more I might get upset.


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May 05, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  I was trying to put the page in the response. Didn't work obviously. But this is what I get when I go directly to my administration center.


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May 05, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  That is what I get too,but I have always been able to go DIRECTLY into my upload in my own website.....I did not have to go to the gallery upload.


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May 05, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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May 05, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  Where'd the text go?
Anyway, it's really the same as the old style, which I was able to still get. New style you put the cursor over "photos" and "upload new photos" comes up. Only difference is the old way had it in the vertical listing.


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May 05, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  So, Gregory, the problem is just that.
I want to go DIRECTLY to that page, but it doesnt work for me and I can't seem to override the new way.


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May 05, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  Unless you meant that you went directly to the page where you chose how many you wanted to upload, which was after you click the "upload new photos" on the admin page.


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May 05, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  "want to go DIRECTLY to that page, but it doesnt work for me and I can't seem to override the new way."
Okay, now I know what you want. I got to it in a new tab. But, like I said in the response right before this one, it's just a new look. Not something that works differently.
You can use the single uploader instead of the drag&drop. That has the page that you select how many photos you want, but it also has a new look. But it still has that picture of the edge of the pool at the top.


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May 05, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  I never went to the admin page...I always went directly to the "black" page you are showing which is my website admin page. (which was in my favorites and now when I go to my favoites, I cannot go directly to the black page.


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May 05, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  I went directly to the black page too, which is the admin page. I have it still bookmarked as it was before. It has a new look now.
Try a new tab with the and see if the black page comes up.


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May 05, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  Hi Greg
By the way, thank you for trying to help me.
No matter what I do I end up at the white admin page. I cannot get back to the admin page,black,like I could before.
I had bookmarked the black page and then when they changed it, my book mark changed.


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May 06, 2007

 
- Gregory LaGrange

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  Oh well. Being on the new page in one tab, and then using the bookmark on a 2nd tab I go right to the black page in the 2nd tab.
Guess we just got to get used to it.


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May 06, 2007

 

Charlene Bayerle
  Thank you for your help Gregory.


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May 06, 2007

 
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