BetterPhoto Q&A
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Photography Question 
KV Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2005
 

Negative Comments left by Judges


Why is it that once a photo makes it to finalist there is a slurry of negagive comments left by the judges on the photos? These stay permanently on the photo. Most people the best they will ever get in this contest is a finalist, why ruin it for them??? No one is claiming to be perfect by why ruin a great feeling with that crap? Have you no feelings??? If you wanted to give a negative BEFORE they go as far as being a finalist is the time. Not after and humiliate us.


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12/29/2006 11:26:25 AM

 
Kerry L. Walker   First, I know that you are not speaking for yourself but rather for others, as I saw no negative comments on the beautiful photos in your gallery. I will admit I am jealous!

I must also admit that I don't hand around too much on the contest pages so I don't see many comments by the judges. However, of the few that I have seen I have found none that I would really call negative comments, unless you consider constructive critisism to be negative comments. I don't enter the contest so I don't get many comments on my photos. If I do get comments on any of my photos, I appreciate any praise that feeds my ego. However, it is only constructive criticism that really helps me, or anyone else for that matter, to improve.


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12/29/2006 1:56:03 PM

 
Christopher Budny
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/3/2005
chrisbudny.com
  Vicki, it might be helpful if you could post a link or two, to photos where you see this... I've never actually seen a negative comment "from the BP Judges" on this site. In fact, the ONLY time I've seen BP Judges comments at all, is when they are offering brief compliments to the photographer for the image.


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12/29/2006 3:15:33 PM

 
Revonda L. Gentry
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2005
  I would have to say this time the judges comments are a tiny bit on the neg. side if that is the word one would choose. If you go to the forum under judges comments and click on a few of the finalist from this month you will see what she means. I got a comment too but I would not consider it too negative I am just thrilled they would say anything good or bad on any of my pics!!


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12/29/2006 3:50:42 PM

 
Robert Baer
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/7/2004
  I must admit that I was really so excited to get an image as a finalist today. I also received a negative comment which I did not quite understand the meaning. So I questioned it because I welcome constructive comments. Have not heard back. But it definitely took alot of the joy out of my finalist badge.


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12/29/2006 5:03:18 PM

 
Christopher Budny
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/3/2005
chrisbudny.com
  I'm inclined to guess they have a new judge in their ranks... In all my sightings of judges comments previously, I'd never seen A) any but short, concise positive comments, and B) any that are actually more than say, 4-5 words in length... (my one and only judges' comment was I believe, 5 words ;) It reads like a new guy/gal on the staff, who has either decided to offer their personal, honest critique on images that catch their notice enough to actually want to comment, or, they're new enough still to not yet be worn down by the daunting task of commenting on a subset of 20,000+ images month after month ;)
I personally would love to see a judge's commentary on EVERY finalist---Afterall, BP charges $79 to have 10 of your photos critiqued by their professionals... But then again, if you get a Finalist, and it doesn't go gold, I guess that is a silent form of the judge's commentary, too! ;)
There are already many discussion threads here on the topic of trying to get better, actually-constructive feedback going on photos... it is not only a hard thing for many folks to offer up to others, but disregarding the very few mean-spirited comments that get posted deliberately, many people who ask for such feedback (and then get honest, direct constructive criticism) can't actually handle it, without getting upset by it... But it would be a good addition to the nearly ubiquitous "great image!" kind of gentle commentary most people get. (Of which I'm often just as guilty of delivering as the next person!)
Still, rather than label it as "negative," I'd be inclined to interpret constructive criticism from a BP judge as just that---constructive criticism from someone to whom you have willingly decided to submitted your photo, for their sole discretionary analysis and review. Since, as Vicki said originally, "no one is claiming to be perfect" and it is a far stretch from Finalist to First Place imagery, I'd welcome any fresh perspectives, insights, suggestions, critiques, that could help push my now-30-Finalists-still-no-gold images to the next level.


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12/29/2006 5:48:22 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  "many people who ask for such feedback (and then get honest, direct constructive criticism) can't actually handle it, without getting upset by it..."


Seemingly just like why this thread has come up.
What's all the hub-bub? This thing goes round and round. Give critique, what in the world are the judges looking for? Get some info as to what can make a photo rise above finalist and you call it being humiliated.
Folks need to get over it. I looked at some of the photos, the bike race, lighthouse, big oak tree, kid at the park. They were fairly accurate with what they said. With the bike race, I think they were generous with placing that as a finalist. Missing focus on an action shot ruins it.
The whites on the lighthouse picture did look too high, making the edges too bold. The barn in the oak tree picture looks like it's been dodged too much to the point it looks like it was added in. I think it should stand out a little less.
Quit being squidly.


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12/29/2006 9:03:32 PM

 
KV Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2005
  Would matter not what anyone posted on here Greg, you take the contrary opinion every time. Your like toilet paper, everytime you don't want it to show up... there it is, stuck to your shoe.


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12/29/2006 9:36:44 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  she interprets different than we do
kerry.thanks for your sincere post.
constructive/degrading?
and dag gone if I don't think greg is ghost writing for me?
vanity/squidly?
mark!


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12/29/2006 9:38:17 PM

 
Robert Baer
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/7/2004
  fyi
the negative judge comment on my image was taken away by bp. I guess there were alot of them this time. someone was out of control!


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12/29/2006 9:45:11 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  And what was so out of control about what they said? And what picture was it?
Signed-The Anti Wimpy Guy



Great shot Vicki


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12/29/2006 10:10:18 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  tear in my eye


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12/29/2006 10:20:25 PM

 
Christopher Budny
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/3/2005
chrisbudny.com
  Terry, that thought crossed my mind as well... just because of the starck contrast in this batch of comments, vs. prior judge comments...
And, I did end up getting a "belated" judges comment on one of mine (ie, added after Finalists were announced.) While it wasn't negative in my view, it definitely suggested to me that it was not the same judge writing, that I was used to seeing elsewhere, if such a thing can be reasonably determined from sentence structure and length ;)


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12/30/2006 7:04:34 AM

 
Michelle M. Peters
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/29/2006
Contact Michelle
Michelle's Gallery
michellepetersphotography.com
  I received a judges comment on my finalist this month also. I wouldnt term it negative but constructive...yet surprising since the judge had just given me the nod for Finalist. I am curious then, not that I am not grateful and thrilled, but WHY was is chosen if it is NOT perfect? Shouldn't the finalists spots be reserved for those who have achieved a sense of perfection with their shots? ****I realize I run the risk of having my status revoked here but I just had to ask! *****


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12/30/2006 7:50:20 AM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  I also thought it could be somebody like the person who moved the 3 year old threads to the front. They could copy the mini pic. Which is why I like to know what these comments were, since the lack of fortitude to handle pointing out an out of focus picture is so common.
AS far as perfection, seems that what place a photo above finalist.


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12/30/2006 8:59:31 AM

 
Michelle M. Peters
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/29/2006
Contact Michelle
Michelle's Gallery
michellepetersphotography.com
  This was the comment on 'Aphrodesiacs?'.....

"Great idea, although it needs a bit more space on the bottom left"

Like I said, not exactly negative, but constructive. BUT STILL, mine selected as finalist despite this 'flaw'?


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12/30/2006 9:24:02 AM

 
Terry  R. Hatfield
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/4/2003
  I Seen Your Comment From The Judge Michelle, To Me That One Seems Legit More Space On The Left Would Put It More Within The Rule Of Thirds.
The Ones I Noticed To Be Kinda OutaLine Were The Images With Two Different Judge Comments And "The Second Comment". That's A Good Image Michelle, I Assume It Was Put In The Monthly Theme Category "Green"?, Just Because The Judge Says Something Constructive Or As You Put It (Not Perfect) Doesn't Mean It Wont Go Further In The Contest, That Is One Judges Opinion Of At Least A Few So Don't Give Up Just Yet;-),Remember Its Subjective As To The Likes And Dislikes Of Each Person Even Judges..


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12/30/2006 2:27:59 PM

 
Mike Rubin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/15/2004
  I think negative comments should only be given in two cases.
When a member asks for a critique from other members and when a member pays for a Pro Critique. Although maybe the judge was explaining why it was a finalist but not a winner.


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12/30/2006 4:47:43 PM

 
Mike Rubin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/15/2004
  The judges are like the Wizard of OZ! Nobody knows anything about them and they work in strange and mysterious ways


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12/30/2006 6:09:01 PM

 
Tamera S. Phillips
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/28/2005
  Ken Smith had two Judges Comments on his winner this month. One nice and one a bit odd. I received two comments on images chosen as finalists and they were both positive. I'd like to hear what BP has to say to clear things up a bit.


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12/30/2006 6:31:32 PM

 
HuHu Lin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/28/2006
  Judges are fair not selfish,they keep in mystery and judge pics never for some private reasons like friendships or sth else,thats why I entering this site.
In my country,some website of photography,judges are also players,they just recommend theirs or their friends pics,we might say they judge pics by relationships not pic itself.So I am very happy to join BP and learn sth from all of you.
BTW,I think its ok that judges leave some negative comments on some pics,it reminds me if see sth to shoot just reconsider the composition exposure..etc before clicking the shutter not just clicking it without thinking...thats what I thought.So welcome leaving any negative comments on mine by judges and all of you,friends!


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12/30/2006 8:01:28 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  Still no indication of anyone out of control. Neither of the two on Ken Smith's pictures come across as odd. One's a short summary of the impressions from the picture. The other's just a comment of not seeing that scene shot in the snow before.


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12/30/2006 11:13:46 PM

 
H.W. 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/19/2006
  I am fairly new here, but it seems to me if you enter a photo contest with the intention of being judged for artistic and/or technical merit, you should not get upset if the comments are not what you want to see, or expect to see.

If a photo is not entered in the contest, there is no reason for a judge whom we presume has some expertise in the field to comment, either positively or negatively..


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12/31/2006 3:14:53 AM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
Contact Sharon
Sharon 's Gallery
  Critique after the fact suggests to me someone made a mistake and the photo shouldn't have progressed as far as finalist status. If it is not a "better photo" it shouldn't be a finalist, period! Why give wins to inferior photos when there are plenty of technically great photos to choose from? A finalist is like a win to many of us. I agree it takes the fun out of it. I'm not saying ANY of the finalists that were critiqued were not great photos. I'm just stating how the whole thing appears to receive critique after receiving the little silver medal. It's like saying, "This shouldn't have won." Inappropriate IMHO.


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12/31/2006 7:19:32 AM

 
Diane Dupuis
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/27/2003
  H.W. - welcome to BP...
For your info - there are close to 24,000 photos entered into the contest every month...
Why did this judge choose finalist announcement day to do the negative comments on a bunch of finalists???? You give it that honor of making the top 750 out of 24,000 and then you say something negative??? And the comments weren't all out of line - but there is a way to say things that come across as constructive criticism without it being negative the way some of these comments were...


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12/31/2006 7:22:40 AM

 
Revonda L. Gentry
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2005
  Well said!!


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12/31/2006 7:35:14 AM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  Care to say what was the comment that was so negative and not constructive criticism?


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12/31/2006 10:48:46 PM

 
Diane Dupuis
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/27/2003
  I'd love to - and I went back - and can't find it now - but I did find reference to someone saying hey - wasn't there a judge's comment on here before? So it looks like BP may have removed some of the inappropriate ones...


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1/1/2007 5:39:12 AM

 
Ken Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/11/2005
Contact Ken
Ken's Gallery
  I agree with Sharon D's last comment. And there were some negative comments, probably from the same judge, that were indeed removed by BP staff from the comments section. However, they weren't overly critical. I appreciated the two I got.


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1/1/2007 6:42:31 AM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  Oh well, guess it wasn't that negative.


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1/1/2007 11:20:49 AM

 
Diane Dupuis
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/27/2003
  Greg - you're not paying attention... They must have been negative enough for BP to remove them - don't you think??? Not everyone got a negative one... And it seems most that were negative are now gone..


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1/1/2007 11:54:06 AM

 
Mike Rubin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/15/2004
  As long as the comments help me improve my photography, say what you want.


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1/1/2007 12:11:04 PM

 
Revonda L. Gentry
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2005
  Greg I usually enjoy reading your viewpoints on all the threads..however this is the only case I believe you are replying w/o doing any research on the subject matter at hand ie:viewing the very unprofessional judges comments. I am not a cry baby or a "everything is unfair" type person but the comments I have viewed on a few friends pics on here was very unprofessional. The year and a half I have been here I have never seen any thing like that!!


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1/1/2007 12:12:29 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  here and there I randomly visit members galleries and leave comments even if people don't ask.
sometimes good,sometimes bad and oh yeah,i can be tactless.
I understand some folks are more sensitive than others as evidenced here.
I thought by having a gallery here at bp it was subject to any and all comments and even more critical if entered into the contest.
a more reasonable reason the comments were removed were because of complaints and not because the judges ethics committee viewed them as inappropriate.
I didnt view the comments,don't enter the contest but feel as a member I have a right to my moronic disposition and sometimes tactless opinion.
name witheld by request.


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1/1/2007 12:51:48 PM

 
Mike Rubin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/15/2004
  Sam, You tactless? I don't believe it!


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1/1/2007 12:57:27 PM

 
Revonda L. Gentry
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2005
  I don't think it has anything to do with being sensitive. Intelligence yes, the comments sounded like they were from a Jr. High School.


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1/1/2007 1:04:49 PM

 
Corinne M. Thompson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/31/2005
  I read about 20 of the comments before they were removed. IMHO, altho they may have been written intending to be helpful, they were (for the most part)done in an insensitive and unprofessional manner, not what one would expect from a judge. I was very disheartened to see them coming from "The Judges". And no, I did not receive one.


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1/1/2007 1:32:07 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  ever been snookered?
the original postee is no longer in existance/discontinued member?
were the posts(judges posts)actually that?
since there is an inherent vanity,yer gonna be prey.
imbedded within..2nd post..
actually no matter.if you have the patience and a bit of forgiveness in the,words/sayings/ideas of others.
gossip and heresay,or even that which is taken as fact.is it?
well ignore paranoia and do your best,that's why we're here.
tactless.


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1/1/2007 6:36:14 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
Contact Sharon
Sharon 's Gallery
  Sam, I respectfully disagree that any image should be fair game for critique. Some sites that sell gallery space allow members to remove comments that are disagreeable. Maybe someone is just sharing a photo with the rest of the community and they don't want or need critique. I'm like that. I don't want critique and I know a few others like me that feel the same way. I especially think a winning photo is the last place a person should decide to offer critique. I've had that happen and found it rude in the extreme. If the judge's say a photo is good enough for 2nd place then some joe with blatantly inadequate camera skills has no business telling everyone on the discussion thread that the image stinks.


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1/1/2007 7:13:09 PM

 
KV Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2005
  Sorry Sam again you are wrong wrong wrong again. No one was snookered, here I am. I cower for no one and have more integrity than that. I chose to leave BP for other reason. I said nothing about this for myself even though I had negative comments, more for a relative that called me very upset about it and regretfully didn't have the courage to say anything on this post about it. They got thier negative comments removed, all they cared about.

There is a manner to present contructive critique, what that one judge did, was nothing but arrogant and rude. To say "I don't like it"... what is constructive about that? The photos are reviewed by atleast 5 judges, a negative could influence the rest. Get real, negatives at this point of the game serves no purpose. If someone wants to hear criticism, pay the money for it. It's how it's set up.

I recieve a email from BP about it stating they also were concerned about the comments. At no point did I ask them to be removed. This was a new judge and BP stated they want this to be a friendly site, unlike some others and felt also they were inappropriate comments so removed them. You can find flaws with every image if you look hard enough and everyone has different taste.
So Sam again, you have no idea what your talking about, nothing better to do with your time then post on every forum comment out there. People work hard for this contest, and deserve some respect from being chosen as a finalist. Takes away from recieving a congratualtory email stating your photo has been chosen as the top 739 out of 23800.

Greg and Sam, again you 2 are stepping into forums where you really haven't got a clue what has been said or has been done and has nothing to do with either of you. Neither of you put anything into the contest that I have ever seen.

To BP, thanks again for having integrity and respect for your members and working to resolve a questionable situation. Says alot about the people that run this website.


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1/1/2007 8:12:33 PM

 
KV Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2005
  Agian, thanks to those who responded to this post that have vested interesst in it. Thanks for all those that supported me while I was here, you will be missed.


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1/1/2007 8:13:39 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
Contact Sharon
Sharon 's Gallery
  I want to know who we're going to miss :o)!


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1/1/2007 8:19:31 PM

 
KV Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2005
  lol Sharon, sorry. Vicki Day

Bye all!


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1/1/2007 8:23:51 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
Contact Sharon
Sharon 's Gallery
  Best wishes for whatever you do, Vicki!


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1/1/2007 8:45:59 PM

 
Nobu Nagase
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/31/2003
  hey, Vicki, you don't have to be gone forever.
...come back when you can... remember that a lot of us will be happy seeing you again...


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1/1/2007 10:07:52 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  Diane D., I'm paying attention. Don't you think if somebody said something to you that made you react,"what tha?!", that you could at least paraphrase if not give even part of what was said to you? Nobody's, even Vicki Day who started the thread, can even do that.
Revonda, whether you enjoy a viewpoint or not, I did look thru some photos. I didn't see any comments that were unprofessional or too harsh. Too harsh even taking into account how people here usually react to things.
So people say they were taken off. Okay, since they're not there, and we now have somebody saying there were 20 of them, at least, I've asked if anybody can say what was said.
So, if I look for them. Don't see them. Then I ask the very people who are so upset by them for what they said, and none of them can even remember a part of them, what more research you want done?
But they're gone, so they're gone. But, offensive things are easy to remember. Comics and radio host without a drop of talent have made a lot of money off of that fact.


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1/1/2007 10:18:38 PM

 
KV Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/25/2005
  Actually Greg, it still has nothing to do with you, even though you try to make it that way, and I don't think anyone should waste time even bothering with your lack of insite on just about everything you say. Your just a sour contrary person who applauds the negative, picks on the weakness of others and relishes sarcastic painful jabs. To even bother discussing this with you is a waste of effort. I can, in fact, tell you what most of them said, so can the ones they were left for. The whole point you missed is, it's not what was said so much as when it was said, even BP photo admitted that. I have the email. I won't, however stoop to you needling for someone to argue with. I've seen you rip on people for a year on this site, and you contribute absolutely zilch. No one can just ask a simple question, you are there, trying to make them look a fool. It makes you feel more of a man go for it. It has never made you look intelligent or bright, just bitter, mean and ugly. Now go back to making fun of Sam like you always do, seems to be easy target for you and I know you seem to like that. Have a great night Greg.


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1/1/2007 10:40:38 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  It's always been about Sam.


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1/1/2007 11:34:40 PM

 
Revonda L. Gentry
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2005
  Greg do you participate in the contest here? Of course one does not have to participate in the contest to reply to threads etc. I just wonder why you would even care to respond and give your opinions on a forum titled "contest entries" when you don't enter. Maybe you do and please forgive me if I am wrong about that.


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1/1/2007 11:55:11 PM

 
Diane Dupuis
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/27/2003
  You'll never win a fight with Greg - the only way to make it stop is to ignore him...
He'll eventually move on to the next thread...
No he doesn't enter the contest...
Let's move on...


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1/2/2007 4:02:51 AM

 
Revonda L. Gentry
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2005
  ok..you answered my question anyway:)


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1/2/2007 5:25:10 AM

 
Kerry L. Walker   Vicki, I hope you will reconsider and put your gallery back up. I really enjoyed viewing it.


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1/2/2007 6:13:48 AM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  well my name is sam not joe,sharon.
anyway if you don't want random critique from someone please make a note in your bio.i try to read them all for a better understanding of people in general.
maybe my skin is so thick and I tend to think people complain too much is because I referee basketball games.i would list the names iv'e been called,references to my family and many,many disibilities I apparently wasn't aware of,but it is a family forum.
i'll see if I can become a better person,sam


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1/2/2007 3:10:31 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
Contact Sharon
Sharon 's Gallery
  Yes, Sam, I know you're name isn't joe LOL. Some members put right in their bio they welcome constructive critique. If a member doesn't indicate they want it then I just assume they don't. I'm not much at offering critique if it isn't requested. A good way to step on toes regardless of your intentions.


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1/2/2007 3:34:05 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  glad you knew I was teasing sharon.but i've seen you try to help others,right or wrong.yes.
now others who are only here for the contest and yearn for the pat on the back for their finalist or winner kinda sicken me because of their lack of participation.
well I won't post because i'm not really sure?how in the world did you achieve such a winner?oh it's a secret?b.s..
members post questions about lenses,well yeah I have that lens but it's either I am selfish or I don't have time for that member or I use photoshop that it matters not which lens I use?
so I coach basketball also.is the point to win?no way...i even laugh at that.
training and understanding are more of a key.
I see so many posts as to are the winners out yet?
i,i.
go where you will,participate if you have time,but make sure you were a help.
we can do better,sam


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1/2/2007 9:22:11 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
Contact Sharon
Sharon 's Gallery
  True, Sam. I try to help when I can. Most of the time I don't have a clue though ;)!


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1/2/2007 9:52:36 PM

 
Jill Odice
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/1/2005
Contact Jill
Jill's Gallery
  I have a question, where do you find the contest judges forum that Revonda and a few others have mentioned?
"If you go to the forum under judges comments and click on a few of the finalist from this month you will see what she means"
I looked all over and cannot find it???


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1/3/2007 5:29:53 PM

 
Corinne M. Thompson
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/31/2005
  Hi Jill, On the homepage click on "community", then click "forum" then go down to where you see "discussions" and look for the category "comments by the Judges".


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1/3/2007 6:05:14 PM

 
Revonda L. Gentry
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2005
  From what I understand they (betterphoto) deleated the negative comments on that were made on this month's finalists.


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1/3/2007 6:43:48 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  the nites my team has practice i'm very unforgiving.
instead of implying take your ball and go home,i should have said that maybe we should play another game.
however I don't tolerate whining with ten year old kids.how would I justify that with adults?
if there is never a hurdle to overcome, that small detour(unwarranted critique)may be a blessing.
or maybe,just maybe,you had a son or daughter that died in iraq or afghanistan.
sorry about a different perspective,but the possibilities are endless.


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1/3/2007 7:37:11 PM

 
Kathy Valcarce
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/11/2005
  To bring death into a topic like this is unbelievable.


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1/3/2007 7:55:01 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  well time is up kathy.your time of service is duly noted.
so you think it's ok for our youth to give their lives that someone can complain about an offensive remark on their photo?
but I have to agree.without the right to an opinion,i would have wasted my time.
sam


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1/3/2007 9:10:07 PM

 
Revonda L. Gentry
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/18/2005
  I have never understood a single comment on any thread that Sam has posted on. However this comparison that sam has made, once again I don't understand, except for it is bit on the dramatic side and has no logic. Death/fighting in Iraq and unprofessional comments on pics..makes perfect sense..not!


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1/4/2007 4:25:15 PM

 
Mike Rubin
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/15/2004
  Just maybe, Sam is saying that there are more important things in life to get worked up over.


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1/4/2007 4:34:03 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  thanks mike,but leave me out there to hang next time.
although I think a lot of this is trivial,i also must respect the opinions of others.
i'll just spot them a 1 point lead at halftime.
sam


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1/4/2007 9:31:30 PM

 
Kai Eiselein
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/21/2003
  Unfortunately, Sam seems to be one of those people who let politics/world events intrude into all parts of his life and he seems to need to force it upon others.
We all know what is going on in the world, Sam.
I think for many of us, myself included, BP is a way to step away for a bit and that IS important.
I am a journalist and deal with crime, death and destruction on a regular basis.
I check it at the door, and I'd ask you to please do the same.


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1/4/2007 10:49:46 PM

 
Michael Skelton  . 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/16/2006
  My God , Im gone a week and walk into a food fight, I didnt know that comments were placed on photos , but then again I never had a finalist.

Good luck for Dec. everyone, The 15th is almost here Sharon D , looking forward to your mid-month post.


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1/8/2007 10:08:55 AM

 
Michael Skelton  . 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 10/16/2006
  Vicki , BP would of never removed the comments if they didnt agree with you. Hope you reconsider coming back


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1/8/2007 10:41:55 AM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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  Thanks, Mike! The 15th sure sneaks up on us fast! I passed the torch to someone else, but the thread will live on so I'll be looking for it myself!


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1/8/2007 2:09:02 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  so it doesn't bother you that it takes almost 13,000bp members to come up with just 2 years of military service.
kai,with all due respect,you may report it after the fact,but you have never dealt with it or been a part of it or even tried to come up with an answer as to how to circumvent the problem.
i gave you tea drinkers a few days to see if I myself by my own beliefs was being selfish or one sided.
to win a fight to some of you may be a victory.but in victory and defeat it matters not unless a lesson is learned.
sometimes winning has a cost so high,we lose ourselves.
none of you will make me an enemy,though I tread upon your patience of understanding,or mine,i hope there is a goal.
I have yet to reach mine,sam


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1/8/2007 9:08:12 PM

 
Kai Eiselein
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/21/2003
  I'm glad you seem to know so much about me, Sam. Amazing for someone I've never met. One of your God-like qualities?
Please, Sam, drop the peyote habit.


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1/8/2007 9:34:03 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  you forgot to mention your tour of duty?


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1/8/2007 10:14:15 PM

 
Kai Eiselein
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/21/2003
  9 months in a National Guard armored cav unit, an injury to my hip requiring 3 pins to repair ended my service. Any more questions?


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1/8/2007 10:43:12 PM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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Sharon 's Gallery
  Good grief, Sam, I have to agree with folks here that the BP forum is not the place for such discussion. Ok, I've been guilty too, but I've beent trying to behave myself lately. How on earth did a thread about the judge's comments digress to this?


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1/9/2007 7:58:22 AM

 
Kai Eiselein
BetterPhoto Member Since: 12/21/2003
  Sharon,
I took a look at Sam's gallery. In it he has a photo of a flag draped coffin "laying in state" in what appears to be a residence.
I assume the soldier killed was either a relative or a friend of Sam's.
With that understanding, I will no longer engage him in this.
I'm sure many of us, myself included, have friends and family in harm's way right now. May they all return safely.


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1/9/2007 9:48:25 AM

 
Sharon  Day
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/27/2004
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Sharon 's Gallery
  "May they all return safely."

Well said, Kai! No one can argue that one.


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1/9/2007 11:12:08 AM

 
Laura E. Swan
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/22/2008
Contact Laura
Laura's Gallery
  Is anyone still here? It's now July of 2009!!! I just read this entire thread and I noticed that no one mentioned these important things:

There are side clubs on BP for critiquing only! It's great for those who wish to improve photos and their skills before their shots are entered into the contest.

There is also BP mail and e-mail available if any of us feel a strong need to correct something on another photographers images. I have done this many times without having to put my ideas, opinions and knowledge right onto a photo that has been entered into the contest.

I look at it this way, and maybe I was brought up too polite to truly believe otherwise, but I respect each artist.

When I see an image that is in the contest number one I respect the artist. He or she felt it was good enough and ready to place it there.

Much of our opinions are only that...and if I DO see a technical error I BP mail them or e-mail them, as not to embarrass them on their contest entry.

There is a club run by a lady named Aimee E. called "Phello Photographers". It is solely for critiquing and while I was in that club I learned a lot.

PERFECT place for some good help BEFORE your image goes into the contest.

This is what BP means by a club that offers help and friendly critique. If you are looking for it you can sure find it.

No one has EVER been hurt or mad or offended that I BP mailed them, in private, with things I have noticed that were "off" like horizons or Brides that didn't get their necklaces straightened and so many other things I have noticed.

They truly appreciate it. Thank me and invite me to continue!!! But it was because it was done in private.

EVERYONE wants help I would think? It's just in the manner it is given out and when. I agree. A little late to tell a finalist their image had problems. What was it doing as a finalist then? And why embarrass the artist like that?

Anyway- this was an interesting thread.

Yours in photography, Laura E. Swan


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7/15/2009 9:32:59 AM

 
David M. Montero
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/16/2006
  As with Laura S. I too just finished reading the commentaries and opinions on critique and criticism. My thoughts are these. There is no perfection in a subjective world. Most of us learn from some sort of "criticism", constructive or otherwise. We are also passionate about our work and therefore sometimes a little sensitive to negative feedback. If I felt the need to offer criticism or critique a photograph I'd go about it in the following way:
1. Open with a positive statement.
2. Critique the image.
3. Close with a positive statement.
We tend to remember the first things people say so set a positive tone. Also, critique the work, not the photographer. Show some respect and use BPmail to do this and not attach your comments to the image. Finally, if you are passionate about your craft you should also be open to improving it. How do you know how well you are doing if there is no feedback? I haven't seen alot of negative criticism of photograhs in BP. I think BP members are very respectful of each others work. I would love to hear what other think of my work - honestly. If done respectfully it is a great learning tool.

For what it's worth,
Monte'


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7/17/2009 9:42:38 AM

 
Laura E. Swan
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/22/2008
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  My sentiments 100% Monte. You said it so well!

HEY! I am glad you showed up. I was beginning to think I was talking into a ghost town thread! :)

Happy Shooting! Come see my gallery if you would like to! I'll pop by yours, too!

-Laura Swan


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7/17/2009 9:32:35 PM

 
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