BetterPhoto Q&A
Category: New Answers

Photography Question 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
 

Photographer Vs. Good Photographer


Ok, I just want to hear it from all the Photographers here, what separates a Photographer from a Good Photographer?


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September 23, 2006

 

Deb James
  Well IMHO a photographer is really anyone who picks up a camera and takes pictures. A good photographer is someone who has taken the time to learn about composition, lighting, DOF, etc. and applies these fundamentals to their photography. A good photographer also chooses subjects that are photogenic and would appeal to others. Now a GREAT photographer is someone who produces images that make you say WOW! when you see them.

I'm sure there's more to it than that, but those are my initial thoughts on the subject. :)


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September 23, 2006

 
- Dennis Flanagan

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Dennis Flanagan
Dennis Flanagan's Gallery
  Well said Deb.


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September 23, 2006

 

A C
  What makes a good photographer? Photoshop .... lol. hehe. Just kidding. Totally and completely kidding!

I think a great photographer engages the audience in a special kind of way. Does the photo tell a story? What does it mean to YOU (the audience). If a photo gets you to think or if it moves you in some way then I think the photographer is likely to be great.

However, this is only one aspect of great photography. Even photos that don't have a social, political, etc. kind of meaning can be great. Look at the contest winners in the Elements of Design category ...


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September 23, 2006

 

A C
  One more thing ...

I think great photographers get the technical AND artistic aspects of photography.

I know some people who are great with lighting and working their camera but the creativity stinks. I also have some graphic design buddies who are Very creative but they don't know much about how to really use their cameras and so their images aren't up to par.


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September 23, 2006

 
- Gregory LaGrange

BetterPhoto Member
Contact Gregory LaGrange
Gregory LaGrange's Gallery
  They dress in black all the time.


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September 23, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  A friend asked me to take her headshots, which I did, but I didn't give her every single shot, just the ones I felt were good. She told me that all photographers give ALL the shots taken, especially for headshots. I find that very hard to believe. And she's had 6 sets of headshots taken. A very well respected photographer that I've learned from gave me the difference between a photographer and a good photographer when it comes to presenting your work to anyone.


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September 24, 2006

 

A C
  "when it comes to presenting your work to anyone."

Absolutely!!! Presentation is extremely important!


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September 24, 2006

 

Mark Feldstein
  Interesting question, Glenn. In my view, anyone can take pictures yet having a camera 'doesn't a photographer make' and there are a lot of distinctions, both subtle and otherwise, between snap shooters and 'photographers'.

For example, I think true photographers tend to strive to capture (on film) (or ultimately produce in P.S.) excellent images using their creative abilities (including their imagination) and that's a process of continual evolution. I honestly feel that when you stop reaching for new levels of photographic achievement through your own creativity, [how you use the fundamental tools like camera, lens and light] then you are among the snapshooters and no longer a photographer trying to perfect your own craft and style.

At the same time, some of us (and some more than others) have to adhere to a kind of moral/ethical code to ourselves and those we photograph and/or shoot for. That's especially so given the technology available nowadays. It used to be "photos didn't lie". Now they can and often do. Just how far someone can stretch 'creative' and still be within the realm of truth is a whole poses a whole new set of moral and ethical questions or for some, even dilemmas.

But as to what we perceive as the quality of our work, as photographers, we ultimately have to be our own best and worst critics through whatever editing process we use. That's often a pretty difficult process and intensely personal process whether it's applied strictly to our photography or anything else we do.

In other words, and in one way or another, we all have to serve our editors notwithstanding whether they're in us or others. And how we do that, as creators, overseers and ultimately reviewers and critics of our own work and processes, I think, is entirely up to us.

So, to answer your question more directly Glenn, if you shot it, it's yours and you control who has access to the work, whether it's you, an editor, a client or anyone else. And if you want to destroy work that you've done that you don't like...it's your right and privilege to push your own erase button or turn on the shredder. ;>)

And the reason for exercising that degree of control and the decisions associated with that is because your reputation as a photographer (not a snapshooter but a photographer) turns on the work you present to others for their approval (or rebuke). Putting ourselves out there every day can be a tough, emotionally draining experience. I don't think we should have to make it more difficult on by presenting work that WE don't approve of, have to defend or apologize for because we don't like it in the first instance.

That's my philosophy and I'm stickin' to it.
Take it light.
Mark


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September 24, 2006

 

Bob Cammarata
  *A photographer takes a picture...a good photographer creates an image.

*A good photographer uses photo-software as a creative tool...not as a crutch.

*A photographer shows everything...a good photographer shows only his or her best.

*Good photographers know what will happen before they press the shutter.

*Photographers will submit their work in hopes of being published. The good photographer is contacted by the editor or publisher when a need arises.

*A good photographer hates automation...or at least only uses it as a more efficient means toward a pre-determined end.

*A good photographer is never satisfied with that last image if it could have been better.

(...Now, where did I put that black suit?) ;)

Bob


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September 24, 2006

 

Mike Rubin
  I asked my 13yr old son(who has NO intrest in photography) the difference between a snapshot and a photograph. His reply was "A snapshot is just taken quickly. A photograph is taken with a lot of thought before it's taken."

A photographer takes "snapshots" a good photographer takes "photographs"

(It is obvious that an understanding of the craft is needed to progress from Photographer to Good Photographer.)


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September 24, 2006

 

Nobu Nagase
 
Good photographers are the ones who imspire and motivate me.

Good photographers' images moves and stir up my emotion.

Good photographers are other guys...


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September 24, 2006

 

Jagadeesh Andrew Owens
  To be a good photographer, it helps to be a Southern, gay, recovering alcoholic and addict who changed his name with artistic and creative ability and talent that really ought to be just too much for one human being (but yet, I embody all of these things....) And to quote a friend, you must have CHUTZPAH! (Bob C.'s answer was good too, except for the fifth one, which is a RESULT of being an established, known, and good photographer).


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September 24, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  I think a photographer takes pictures solely with the mind, while a good photographer takes photos, not only with the mind, but with his soul (I know, it's a bit corny) and creates works of art that stir feelings in his/her own heart as well as others. A good photographer also takes the time to study each and every aspect of photography when and wherever possible, and never EVER gets tired of learning more. In a nutshell, a photographer is a photographer, but a good photographer is also an artist. And Mr. Feldstein, you're absolutely right. In our line of work, we do need to be careful about what we show. Our reputations ARE based on what we present to others. To be quality, give quality. To be crappy, give crappy.


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September 24, 2006

 

Diane Dupuis
  I find it hard to believe that the girl with the headshots gets all the shots! No way! I probably show about 30% of my work - only the best 30%... One day when I get good enough to do it absolutely right every time then I'll probably take less and show more... But still won't show it all (come on - she had to blink or something at least once!)


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September 24, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  could be just someone else's opinion?
may the force be with you,sam


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September 24, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  Thanks, Diane! My thoughts, exactly! Now, has anyone here EVER done headshots for someone and given every single shot taken??? I doubt it.


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September 24, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  so if photos are taken with the heart and soul,why would some be left out?
ya might explain why you don't think why some,you think,are a little under par,but if your a good photographer,why would you yourself not show that work?
by the way,cats do taste like chicken!
mistakes?
then you define what went wrong.YOU accept it.sure wasn't the camera,developer.
well I didn't pay attention in class that day?
if you want someone to corroberate your skills or thinking,no.
my black suit has bones on it,well halloween is next.


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September 24, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  Cats taste like chicken? What's that about?


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September 24, 2006

 

Mark Feldstein
  When I lived and worked in Los Angeles (about 15 years ago), I did a lot of head shots. They got a contact sheet, usually 35mm b&w, picked whatever prints they wanted and I had them printed.

Back then, there were guys who advertised head shots at around $75 -100-bucks per 36 exp roll. The subject got the film along with a list of labs to take it too and it was adios. That technique was practiced by what we described as "hacks" or spoilers. Their work wasn't at all professional but sometimes the person who hired these "photographers" got lucky and found a usuable shot on the entire 36 exposure roll.

I don't know if this is the distinction between a good photographer or not, but it's certainly a distinction between a professional and a true amateur in every sense of the words. Pros don't just surrender their work (unless it's a written work for hire agreement) and pros don't sell their work by the linear foot. Pros control the usage of their work by the terms of their written agreements and don't generally allow substandard work to be distributed because odds are it'll end up in print somewhere with their name on it.

Tell your friend you did her a favor by photographing her in the first place and suggest next time she can go to a Walmart "portrait studio" pay walmart prices, get Walmart services and quality and let you sleep in. Meanwhile, tell her the remaining photos were erased already so it's a moot point anyway. :>)
Take it light.
Mark


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September 25, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  Thank you, Mark. As always, you place things in perspective. I'm glad you mentioned the 'hacks' and the 'spoilers.' They're all over the place advertising $99 Headshots for aspiring actors/actresses and models with Zeds included! Comp cards are around $200-700, depending where you go, right? So how??? I'm so wanting to give those photographers a call with a fake name (e.g. Justin Timberlake, George Michael or Vlad Burstameiner)and ask what's really included in the $99 deal.


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September 25, 2006

 

dave
  there are very little great photographers compared to how many good photographers are out there. Since digital alot of awful ones surfaced that thought they would be great because of technology.


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September 25, 2006

 

Kerry L. Walker
  "To be a good photographer, it helps to be a Southern, gay, recovering alcoholic and addict who changed his name with artistic and creative ability and talent that really ought to be just too much for one human being"

Well, I guess I know now why I'm just a photographer and not a good photographer.

Southern - Yep, I qualify there.

Gay - nope, but at my age it doesn't matter. Nobody looks anymore - guys or gals.

Alcoholic and addict - Nope - unless you include my addiction to ice cream.

Artistic and creative ability and talent that really ought to be just too much for one human being - don't even have enough for one human being - and my wife questions whether I am even human anyway.

Oh well, I guess I'll have to be satidfied with just being a photographer.


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September 25, 2006

 

Jagadeesh Andrew Owens
  There's the Kerry we know and love! LOL!! Where've you been, man??


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September 25, 2006

 

Jagadeesh Andrew Owens
  And what about chutzpah? You have some of that, don't you?


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September 25, 2006

 

Kerry L. Walker
  Been busy.


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September 25, 2006

 

Kerry L. Walker
  "And what about chutzpah? You have some of that, don't you?"

Can't even spell it. How can I have it. Is that something like gall? My wife says I have a lot of that. Or did she say I act like a Gaul? One of those words.


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September 25, 2006

 

Mark Feldstein
  Hi Kerry !!! I'll give you an example of "chutzpah" from my old neighborhood. Chutzpah is when a guy kills his mother and father and in court asks the judge for leniency in sentencing because he's now an orphan. ;>) Whaddya think??? LOL !!!
Mark
Oh and btw,
My pleasure Glenn.


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September 25, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  Man, that IS chuztpah! Did the kid ever get leniency?


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September 25, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  yeah this is in print and out
loud...
I think i'm going to peuk.
not a judgement,an opinion.
smells of professional downtrodding.big hint of over inflated ego,and maybe a slight smell of confidence.
now I may answer an email.from someone who may not understand as much as I do about photography.why would .
it just seemed a bit rude to me.
i'm thinking of a word..oh yeah..oops>
sam


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September 25, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  Ok Sam, that's the second time you lost me.


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September 25, 2006

 

BetterPhoto Member
  I know an up-the-but drunk girl from S.C. who changes here name everytime she remarries and got her piture in a newspaper by doing the right editor, but her photos suck!!


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September 26, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  ok,you folks are referring to a lot of bp members here.myself included at times.
I saved some friends over 1,500 bucks on their wedding.was it high quality and presented in a professional manner,no.
i've shot for several local events around here for free,saved them money and trying to get my name out.
i've been asked to do some senior pictures next spring.i think I can pull it off,give them good quality,make a little money and save them some money.
my intent wasn't to offend anyone,i was just trying to say,hey..
many have helped myself and many others.thanks.
rip-offs are in every profession.
some though have good intent,try to do the best they can and when they get in over their head or just plain screw up,the customer gets it.
these people are going to do it,with or without help.
I myself get a chuckle when I see some of the posts,but with a sense of humor and humility(i was completely ignorant not so long ago)i'll help as much as I can even if I think they're on a downhill train to destruction.
maybe,just maybe,a good photographer is humble..
don't worry,i have a ways to go before I become what I think is a good photographer.
sam


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September 27, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  Nicely put. And rip-offs ARE in every profession.


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September 27, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  sorry I lost you glenn,or offended..sometimes if WE pat ourselves on the back too much,we lose a slight sense of humanity and the helping of others.
last time I got my foot in the door,i lost a shoe.
respect has a taste of it's own.i hope we all earn it.yeah,the chicken thing.
sam


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September 27, 2006

 

Kerry L. Walker
  Sometimes the folks who pat themselves on the back are also being a bit facetious. Some take it as being conceited but I see it as what it is - a great sense of humor.

Sometimes some folks, who never use a capital letter and have a dry sense of humor, don't give themselves the credit they deserve.

And then some of us are just plain nuts!


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September 27, 2006

 

Nobu Nagase
 

...may the force be with you, sammy.
- nobiOne :)


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September 27, 2006

 

anonymous A.
  My two bob's worth is pretty basic: a good/great photographer is someone who produces good/great photographs...consistently, predictably, reliably, regularly.

By whatever standard we use, we judge the image. Some have universal appeal, some appeal to a select few, some lose their impact over time, others are valued more as time goes by. And everyone will produce a good picture sometimes: the technology guarantees it, and good images saturate our cultures, so the chance of taking and showing awful pictures is less than the chance of taking good pictures. take enough and some will be very good; they will have an impact on many who see them; some will be great images with universal appeal.... but that doesn't mean the person who took it is a great photographer!
A high volume of great images might not mean someone is a great photographer, either: I read posts here and elsewhere which take it for granted that to get a good picture, you need to shoot 100 frames or more. It helps, sure, but with a strike rate like that, you could set the camera on time lapse in a public street and come back in a few hours to sort through the dross and find a moving image. That is the mark of a good editor, rather than a great photographer.

The question arises, how do you get to be good? Probably by becoming a good editor, getting to understand the qualities that make an image outstanding, learning just enough "technical stuff" so that the mechanicals (cameras, lenses, pods, filters etc.) become familiar enough so we stop worrying about "how" to do something. Is there more to it than that? Sure, but I've stolen enough of the bosses time and have to get back to work.....


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September 27, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  Well, I gotta admit this, if there's anything I've learned from this thread, it's the fact the we have a LOT of interesting people on BP. Sense of humors and deep thinkers. Man, really deep thinkers. I'm talking DEEP. David, you answered a question I had bouncing in my brain the whole day: Isn't the photograph (regardless of how it's made) what makes a great piece of work? Thanks for the clarification. And if you guys haven't checked out Sipho's work, that'll prove the point. As for timeless, I'd have to give major props to big daddy Feldstein's portraits. Classic. I've been checking out almost everyone's galleries, and there's not a single one, that I don't envy.

Well, I gotta get to bed. The wife awaits.

And Sam, may the force (and Oreo cookies) be with you. :0)


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September 27, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  sure,had to look another word up.
two bob's worth.that was not the word I had to look up..
boy there sure are some sneaky writers around here.oh well,i'll just pick a category and shove myself in it and see if I fit?
glad nobody got miffed,sam


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September 28, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  Did I say that right? What I mean to say is that I DO envy everyone's creative abilities. Have a great day, everyone!


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September 28, 2006

 

anonymous A.
  "Two bob's worth"...Australia went from pounds, shillings and pence to decimal currency in 1966. A shilling was equivalent to 10 cents and was colloquially known as a bob; so two bob's worth is 20c worth of: something of small value. Back when I was a boy, before inflation went wild, it was tuppence worth (tuppence=two pence or two pennies).


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September 28, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  ok,i had to look up facetious.
I actually caught the 2 cents worth.
i was going to say I hate oreo cookies and got to laughing so hard..
no glenn it wasn't anything you said.
i actually fit in the just plain nuts category and boy is it crowded.
sam


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September 28, 2006

 

Mike Rubin
  Sam, I must be in the same padded room. My wife thinks I'm nuts everytime I buy something for this hobby :)

Mike


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September 28, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  next time she says your nuts,ask her, what about them?ohhh.


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September 28, 2006

 

Kerry L. Walker
  LMBO!

That's our Sam.


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September 29, 2006

 

Rebecca A. Steed
  I see you've met BP's 'crazy uncles' as I call them (ya'll know who you are). :)
To me, what sets a professional apart is, obviously quality of the photo and a good eye and equipment shouldn't matter. If you are a professional, I think you should be able to use just about any camera, even if it's low end, and still be able to come up with a brilliant photo. Playing with Tiger Woods' clubs don't make you a good golfer, catch my drift?
HOWEVER, I do think a professional is someone who is making their income off their photographs, and no matter how good your pics are, if shot in the wrong format (not raw, etc.) and not presented right, you probably won't sell enough to make good money.


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September 29, 2006

 

Jagadeesh Andrew Owens
  Which is why some of us hook on the side.... :>O


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September 29, 2006

 

Kerry L. Walker
  Hook? Doesn't that have something to do with crochet?


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September 29, 2006

 

Jagadeesh Andrew Owens
  In some worlds....LOL


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September 29, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  ROFLMAO!


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September 29, 2006

 

Mike Rubin
  Who need the Comedy Channel when we have Sam and Sipho? LOL


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September 29, 2006

 

W.
  "What separates a Photographer from a Good Photographer?"

First of all, I see 3 categories. Not just 2:
1) Anyone who picks up a camera and takes pictures for the family album, or vacation pix, or celebration pix – while trying to have as little to do as possible with buttons and settings, and actually doesn't WANT to know – is a 'snapper', imho. 'Photographer' is far too grand a designation for most Joe's & Jane's Doe happily snapping away at the Xmas dinner.
2) A photographer is someone who has taken (past tense, implying time passed and experience) the time to learn about composition, lighting, depth of field, colors, etc. and applies it to his/her photography.
3) A GOOD photographer is a guy or gal who does no.2 so well that their photos make me look twice (at least).


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September 29, 2006

 

Jane Foltz
  Good equipment Good subjects and a good eye.Take away any one of the three and a great photo becomes just a ok picture. I know, I take alot of just ok pictures but I keep trying anyway.


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October 09, 2006

 

Charlotte K. Lowrie
  Good question and a good thread.

The late, great Henri Cartier-Bresson distilled the photographic journey for me when he said:

"Twenty-five years have passed since I started to look through my viewfinder. But I regard myself still as an amateur, though I am still no longer a dilettante." (Henri Cartier-Bresson, The Mind's Eye, Aperture)

Charlotte
http://wordsandphotos.org


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October 09, 2006

 

Jagadeesh Andrew Owens
  Charlotte's response leads me to believe that having three names may be another distinction of a great photographer. As she mentioned, Henri Cartier-Bresson, there's Margaret Bourke-White, and one of my favorites , if not the fave photojournalist (check her out if you don't know her work) Mary Ellen Mark.

Dang, it looks like another name change may be in order for me....


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October 09, 2006

 

Charlotte K. Lowrie
  Now I wish that I had thought of that!!! *gales of giggles* Maybe I can just hyphenate my first and middle names. Mary Ellen Mark is one of my favorite photograhers, as was Cartier-Bresson. I am also familiar with Margaret Bourke-White's work.


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October 09, 2006

 

Sharon Day
  A "good" photographer makes money so I guess that just makes me a regular ole photographer since I haven't made any money ;)!


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October 09, 2006

 

Mark Feldstein
  Hey Sipho: Charlotte's exactly right about 3 names although would YOU believe I USED to have 3 names, but I had my names shortened to Mark.

Sharon, I have it on good authority that YOUR day to start turning a profit should be happening soon. Ask Sipho, he'll tell ya. Besides, "regular ole photographers" can make money too ya know, and you're better than just regular. ;>))
[Now about that charge card........]
Take it light.
Mark


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October 09, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  Sipho, if you were to hyphenate your name to "Si-Pho Eish" to give you 3 names, wouldn't that make you part Spanish, Vietnamese and Jewish? And Mark, you already have 3 names: Daddy Mark Feldsteinmeister!


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October 09, 2006

 

Mark Feldstein
  Wait a minute. Who's yo daddy?
M.
=============================
Some people will do almost anything to keep a thread alive. LOL !!! Hi back Glenn.


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October 09, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  ah,question authority?
yeah,had to look another word up.
titles,names,quotes?
someone elses work should have no bearing on our own.that the work we instill within ourselves is just to get better and improve.
others work is better,a goal I guess,but at what expense?change a goal or style..maybe lose yourself in the process,and sacrifice beliefs.i want to be like?
I never came here to sell my work or get justification for my work or have someone else say my work is good.only to improve.and I have to thank many.
but yet arrogance,with ketchup,could taste like a regular cheeseburger,or a steakburger.
and though they are ok pictures,a start is in progress.
sam


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October 09, 2006

 

John P. Sandstedt
  I can't tell you the difference between a photographer and good photographer. But, I can tell you the difference between an amateur and a professional photographer.
>
>
>
An amateur photographer will show you his photographs.
>
>
>
A profressional photographer will show you his great photographs.

All we have to do is look at some of the galleries to confirm this. Too many of us have too many ordinary images posted. But, that's just my opinion.


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October 10, 2006

 

anonymous
  A professional photography only shows their BEST work, all photographers take crap photos, but a pro won't show these to anyone.

As the great Eve Arnold said:

You can't create a photographer if the magic isn't there.

I truely believe a great photographer is born not created, and through teaching and learning, his/her ability and skills develop. AKA, the person has to be born with the magic first. This is magic is then moulded with practice, reading and study etc.


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October 10, 2006

 

anonymous
  Also a Pro makes a decent profit!


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October 10, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  classify yourselfs as you wish,or classify others.but when that pedastal gets a little wobbly.
cast a judgement upon others photos.
mine are just my life and the capture I percieve.yet I share with no remorse.
shalom,sam


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October 10, 2006

 

Jane Foltz
  Well Let me see if I have this right. After reading all this to be a GOOD photographer you must have 1. Know what your are doing, 2. Believe in yourself, 3. Make money with your photos,4.Only show people your good shots, 5. Dress in black,and 6. Have 3 names. I think that about sums it up. I have learned alot by this question. I think I'll just take a few memories and if someone else likes them then I'm good with that. I have a few mentors from this site and have learned alot from them on how to capture memories better. Thanks Guys!


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October 11, 2006

 

Craig m. Zacarelli
  the difference between Photos and good Photos?
lol


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October 11, 2006

 

anonymous A.
  You missed one, Jane...according to Natalie, you have to be born a great photographer. Nit that that is logical or even likely; and it isn't something you can know or prove: no baby can handle a camera at birth, and the brain's capacity to organise sensory input develops over time, greatly influenced by environment.
It is true that pattern-recognition varies quite a lot between individuals in infancy, but since this is only one inherent quality relevant to becoming an artist, that's not enoough to support the idea of 'born not made'.
I have a niece who takes wonderful portraits and did so from the first time she picked up a camera: she is "untaught". But she takes lousy landscapes.
I would have thought that inherent greatm=ness or natural talent would mean that a photographer would be able to take great photographs in a variety of genres, but this isn't so. There are many, like my niece, whose talent lies in a limited area...great macro photographers, wonderful landscape artists, excellent action photographers, terrific with celebrities great candid shooters; their other work may be quite mediocre. That suggests that their talent is based more on an intimate knowledge of their subject, a special interest in their chosen field, and a set of techniques and skills which allow them to produce the goods over and over. I do not doubt that some people have a head star in the talent department, and that some people will never make the A-list. But photography, like all arts, is built on a foundation of skills which can be learnt and developed and improved by virtually anyone. And those skills include the skills of seeing, recognising and capturing great images. I suspect that no great photographers were born great. Interest, need, luck pressed them into learning and extending whatever nature gave them, even if very little, until they achieved the stature that others now call "GREAT".


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October 11, 2006

 

Deb James
  Very well put, David.


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October 11, 2006

 

anonymous
  Oh Der... David. Of course babies can't hold camera's and it is ridiculous to for you to think that is what I meant. I meant, some people are born creative, some aren't and those people who are born creative, usually end up being better photographers, artists, musicians etc.


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October 11, 2006

 

anonymous A.
  I know you weren't suggesting that, Natalie...I was only trying to make the point that talents and skill develop over time. Thing is, we can only assume that a person had some special, innate talent after they achieve "Greatness", but it isn't necessarily so. Lot's of apparently talented kids go on to achieve nothing of note, others who showed little capacity early on achieve extraordinary things.
And we shouldn't forget that greatness may be nothing more than celebrity or populist acclaim which doesn't last, but is only transitory, modish or shallow.


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October 11, 2006

 

anonymous
  It is funny you say that greatness may be nothing more than celebrity or populist...

As with Ken Duncan, his photos are beautiful etc, but I believe Mark Adamus is better than Ken, but unfortunately Ken already has the "status" and the marketing ability. So, although he isn't the best, he is perceived to be one of the best.

All about how you market yourself too isnt it.


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October 11, 2006

 

anonymous A.
  I meant that what appears to be greatness may turn out, in the longer view, to be much less. History can be a great leveler. And I think you're right, Natalie: marketing means a lot!


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October 12, 2006

 

dave
  everyone has a gift, some just try too hard in the wrong areas and some people nail it from the get go.


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October 12, 2006

 

Zfsdfb Xdfbsdfb
  who are you talking about?


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October 12, 2006

 

Craig m. Zacarelli
  Being born with talent helps but its not the end all, photography is a "Learned" art but, there are those people who just cannot be taught so they do not raise up as some others might. Ya have to really want it and want to learn. Some are just lazy and when they find out they cant just point and shoot and be the next Adams, they give up!


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October 12, 2006

 

BetterPhoto Member
  a dear friend of mine has been involved with photography for over ten years. Took it in high school, shoots almost everyday, works at a photolab and talks about it non-stop. So I wanted some headshots and they sucked, I didn't have the heart to tell him.


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October 12, 2006

 

Jane Foltz
 
 
 
Well Aunty Jane has a story for you. While at a football game last night(freezing my tail off at 25 and blowing snow) one of "my girls" found me and was so excited. She had taken some pictures that I had taken of her and downloaded onto a CD to Wal-mart( ok I know it's not high class but we are talking about Wisconsin) to have some prints made. They refused to give them to her because they "thought " they were taken by a professional and needed to have a copy right release. She was so impressed! If you could only see the equipment I use you would laugh! Now I have to go have them printed for her( that means driving 45 miles one way) but oh well. So maybe I have arrived or maybe we just have alot of mediocre Photographers in the area. anyway I was flatted.


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October 13, 2006

 

Jane Foltz
 
 
  Sweet  16
Sweet 16
taken against a piece of chalkboard cloth with VERY simple equipment.

Jane Foltz

 
 
Well Aunty Jane has a story for you. While at a football game last night(freezing my tail off at 25 and blowing snow) one of "my girls" found me and was so excited. She had taken some pictures that I had taken of her and downloaded onto a CD to Wal-mart( ok I know it's not high class but we are talking about Wisconsin) to have some prints made. They refused to give them to her because they "thought " they were taken by a professional and needed to have a copy right release. She was so impressed! If you could only see the equipment I use you would laugh! Now I have to go have them printed for her( that means driving 45 miles one way) but oh well. So maybe I have arrived or maybe we just have alot of mediocre Photographers in the area. anyway I was flatted.


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October 13, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  rrrrr


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October 13, 2006

 

Samuel Smith
  better splain that,so no body gets irked.ya meant flattered,and congrats.
nice pic.
and derek,,,good friends don't let friends suck.well if...family site.
not fair derek.
good,great,pro.
make a list and let us sign up where we think we fit.
might be a hoot.
sam


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October 13, 2006

 

Sharon Day
  I'm sorry, but I don't necessarily consider photography some great artistic ability or gift :o)!

Anyone with a desire to learn can take good if not great photos. I would tend to agree with Natalie that artistic ability is a gift, but I don't agree that photography is.

While I don't consider myself more than average I was joking when I said that to be good you had to be making money. I believe some people enjoy art simply as a creative outlet and just because they aren't selling their work doesn't make their talents less than those who do.

BTW, there are a lot "professionals" here at BP that don't seem to mind entering and displaying shots that should have been deleted :o)!


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October 13, 2006

 

Glenn G. Gliponeo
  Ms. Sharon, I'll have to disagree with you there. I believe that photography is an art. Back when there weren't any means of capturing scenes, people used drawings and paintings to depict life and what they felt. Many of them didn't mean for their drawings to be art, but they were (and still are) considered as such. Today, we have the means, and it doesn't change a thing. Many artists didn't consider what they did as being art. A fine example is Leonardo da Vinci. He considered them as being "thoughts." Even his drawing of a guy using a parachute is considered art. Sharon, I've seen your work, and whether you don't believe your work is artistic, I do. I believe your work is VERY artistic. Me, on the other hand, I'm still learning.


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October 13, 2006

 

cj patterson
  wow. this is an interesting thread! I rarely check out the forum but had a free minute to "troll" and this caught my attention...we do have some "deep thinkers" here on bp!

first of all, sharon!!! you are VERY artistic - your images speak for themselves!!! And, sorry but I too would disagree with you...i think photography is definitely a form of art...haven't you ever seen an image that just makes you go "WOW"!!! if photography is not art on some level, then does that mean another person could have stood in the exact same place with the same camera and taken the exact same picture that would make you go WOW...i don't think so...

as far as being "born" with it, I agree with both sides...i think there are people that are "born" with a creative eye and can see things more creatively than another, whether its composition wise or just seeing things that a less creative person wouldn't necessarily see...but the camera and techincal stuff CAN be learned by anyone that is willing to put forth the effort (and that is key, not many are willing to put forth that effort, the just stay on auto and snap away)...my step-father is a prime example of how you can take a technically perfect shot. he readily admits he can take a technically "perfect" shot, but also says he lacks capturing that "moment" so to speak...so while capturing something technically perfect is all well and good, what does it matter if what was captured is not inspiring or thoughtful or artistic in some way? I guess what I am trying to say is I personally think the creative aspect to photography is the ability to see things that perhaps a less creative person might not see or even think of...

okay so for me...

i agree "photographer" is too grand a word for someone who just snaps pix...

a "good photographer" is someone who consistently takes technically good sound pictures that are inspiring in some way.

a "great photographer" to me is someone who WOWs you on a consistent basis and makes you go man I suck! lol...do you know what I mean??? bordering on the level of genius in their ability to consistently wow you...

anyways, great thread and glad I stumbled on it...cheers! cj


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October 14, 2006

 

Sharon Day
  Thank you, Mark, Glenn and CJ! I am embarrassed. I totally was not fishing for compliments!


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October 14, 2006

 

cj patterson
  oh, and one more thing...

the creative aspect to photography to me is what distinguishes a good photographer from a photographer...

the ability to blend both the creative and the technical aspects together consistently is what distinguishes a GREAT photographer from a good photographer...

oh and Sharon, I didn't take it as you were fishing for compliments. at all!!


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October 14, 2006

 
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