BetterPhoto Q&A
Category: New Questions

Photography Question 
Robyn Gwilt
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/15/2005
 

Anyone feel like I do?


It seems that whenever anyone posts a question, and its starts to run, there are one or two (or more) people who enjoy hi-jacking the thread to serve their own ego. I'm personally sick and tired of it, and I know a couple of others members who are as well. We're all here because we enjoy, make that LOVE photography. We enjoy sharing our knowledge and learning from some of the awesome members who are way ahead of us in terms of experience and technical know-how. My feeling is this: If you're a member of BP, you should HAVE to post pix on your site, you should also HAVE to have contact details. If you are not prepared to put your artistic talents up for the test, and crit as you crit others, then find another site. I don't enjoy getting posts from people without a gallery, as its tantamount to 'anonymous'. I don't know what their work is like, whether they're cutting and pasting their info from the net, or whether they're actually talking from experience, and whether what they think is good, is the same of what I think is good! My suggestion to Jim, Heather & Co., is that anyone who registers a gallery, and doesn't paste pix within a week, should be blocked totally from this site!
Does anyone agree with me?


To love this question, log in above
8/21/2006 11:53:06 PM

 
Ben F
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/30/2004
  Hi Robyn,

Im not totally sure what you mean by people "hi-jacking" threads but what annoys me most is people who post that have nothing to offer to the question and/or go off on a tanjent about something else.

Re: the posting pics issue, what youve said has annoyed me a little and I really dont agree. I have only a few images in my gallery and I dont feel I should have to put more in there so other people can gauge my efforts. I will put pics in there IF and WHEN I feel like it, and if what you were suggesting actually came to action, then it'd be cya later BP from me, along with many others id assume. I dont come here for people to critique my work, nor do I come to critique others work. And while I do from time to time look at peoples gallerys, I generally dont comment unless I feel the urge to (in a good way). What I may consider great others may consider garbage. But I certainly dont agree with people being judged because they come here to learn more about photography, rather than be critiqued for their work.

I love coming to the site to learn, and also to offer people any help when I can with what I know, and if they dont wanna put pix up they shouldnt have to.

my 2cents...


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 12:17:30 AM

 
Robyn Gwilt
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/15/2005
  Thanks for taking the time to comment Ben. I didn't mean to imply that you need to have 100 photo's up - 1 or 2 would at least show that you're a photographer - otherwise why be on the site and comment on threads. I just feel that it validates the person. As to what makes a good pic or not - as I said, its purely subjective - but I'd at least like something to measure by.


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 2:40:55 AM

 
Irene Troy
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/27/2004
  Robyn – I read and reread your post and, while I think I understand your ideas, I don’t think that I am in full agreement. First; I also get irritated when someone tries to divert a serious discussion into some mostly unrelated issue that they wish to discuss. If you have questions or wish to make a statement, just post your own message and don’t “hijack” another. Yes, there are people here who appear to enjoy stirring up trouble and who appear to make statements for the sole purpose of inflaming others. Anyone who posts here for any time quickly learn who these people are and either avoids threads with their contributions or ignores the contribution. Is this irritating? Sure, but it is the price we pay for having the freedom to discuss anything and everything without being censored (well, at least as long as we are not using profanity or being truly ugly).

As to the issue of posting images in the gallery; I know there are several regular posters here who have no galleries. I’d love to see their work, but if they don’t want to post images, well, that is their choice. I have had “conversations” with a number of BP members who never post images and yet, what they contribute is certainly worthwhile and instructive. Their reasons for not posting images are unknown to me, but I think they have the right to make that choice. Again, there are a couple of people here who seem to be here for the sole purpose of stirring up trouble. They have no gallery and rarely make helpful contributions. But, they are in the minority and, again, most of us know who they are. I’d hate to see the powers that be at BP make rules that exclude the casual visitor or that discourage those who wish not to post their images. Frankly, I do not believe that this would accomplish the goal of somehow restricting or eliminating those members who simply irritate and make trouble. Like you, I love to see images made by those who respond to my questions – it can be a tool for determining just how much the poster actually knows – but, on more than one occasion I have been helped by someone without a gallery, so I am not sure that this should be a measure of one’s ability or understanding of photographic issues.

Irene


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 5:25:54 AM

 
Jagadeesh Andrew Owens   Some people, with no life, no talent, no wisdom, and no worth, who are just great big lumps of nothing, will always seek to belittle and antagonize those who are genuine, helpful, and sometimes successful out of pure jealousy and insecurity. As they are always present in life, be it on the street, in your office, or on a community forum, they are best ignored. Do we waste our energy responding to, at best an immature child, and, at worst a sad, lonely, bitter ghost of a person who life has left by the wayside? I for one, will not. Non-entities such as the ones I have described should be ignored by all at betterphoto, including the administration, showing that such infancy is not worth the blink of an eye, much less a rebuttal.


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 5:42:43 AM

 
Charlene Bayerle
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/9/2003
PictureThisbyChar.com
  Robyn, I agree with you. Everyone is entitled to a free gallery at BP. So why not post your photos. I also agree that there are many entries that should be removed. I know "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", but some are just ridiculous. Unfortunately we live in a society that is kinda scary now a days, and being this is a family site, some of the almost porno photos, should be removed. Nasty comments should be removed. There are young kids that do look at this site.....why not use it as a learning tool instead of trying to make a statement, but don't even sign their right names to it.
Yes, this is a free site, but I don't get why people have to be rude or make nasty comments. Come on guys,this is suppose to be fun....it's called a "family" site!!!
P.S. I am not a prude, but some of the entries of almost nude people, or in suggestive poses, don't belong here.
They're there to get a reaction!!! And they got mine!!! LOL!!


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 6:19:22 AM

 
Kerry L. Walker   "Some people, with no life, no talent, no wisdom, and no worth, who are just great big lumps of nothing"

Hey, Sipho, I resemble that remark!

Robyn, I can understand your frustration and I know with whom you are frustrated but I can't agree with your idea. There are a few people here (Jon and Alan to name a couple) who don't have a gallery but who are so much more knowledgeable than most of the rest of us. It sure is nice to have them around. I suggest we just ignore those who cause the problems.


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 6:23:12 AM

 
Rebecca A. Steed
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/6/2005
  Robyn, I know what you mean, and yes, I agree. There are some imposters here - maybe the same one claiming to be many? (they know who they are and one of them posted to this thread) who offer nothing in the way of advice but just love to loiter around the forum. Here's the problem. I don't know how to view a members free gallery or how to contact them, because they don't have links under their names. There are many who are here just to spread their wealth of info, even if you can't see their work, and there are some who just want to throw a wrench in your spoke. As for the indecent material, there is a way to report it. BP takes it off the site immediately.


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 6:29:39 AM

 
Jerry Frazier   Hi Robyn,

I used to post my photos. But, bp.com is NOT secure. And, at the time where I can just supply a link to MY SERVER and show photos, I'll do it. But, I WILL NOT upload my copyrighted work to bp.com's servers until they institute a little security.

So, that's why I have nothing up. It all started with the name changer about maybe 2 years ago. Long story, but it got weird. So, I took everything down, changed my name, and I will remain this way until bp.com changes it's policies.

Also, I gave you a critique once, and you nearly blastetd me to the moon. So I will NEVER EVER EVER do a critique again...even if someone asks. It's art, and subjective. If you think it's good, it is. As soon as you ask for a critique, you are adding objectivity. The one time I decided to do it, BECAUSE BP.COM IS A FRIENDLY HAPPY SITE, you called me names, and really got all hot and bothered over it. So, my comment back to you was, then, don't ask if you don't want an opinion. People really don't want critiques of their work, they want happy lovey crap about it.

Anyways, I am very much an off-topic person. That's what I do because one thought just leads to another and another, and that's how I operate.

If you've ever been to a managed forum where everything stays on-topic and moderates delete or move off-topic posts. They are dry and boring and kind of suck.

Anyway, sorry that I make your experience less than enjoyable. I'll try to keep it all to a minimum.


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 6:36:48 AM

 
Irene Troy
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/27/2004
  Joe – you make some excellent points. People post their images asking for a critique and then get angry if you say anything except that their image is the best thing you have seen. This is called ego folks and unless you can put your ego aside – recognizing that being a good photographer is not about having an ego, but rather about accepting criticism and using it to improve your work – you are not likely to improve your technique or vision. Of-course I love it when people praise my work, don’t we all? But, I also appreciate it when anyone takes the time to honestly and intelligently critique an image and tell me what went wrong or how I might improve. Like most of us, I have a pretty good ego, but I do not define my self worth in terms of how good a photographer I am! Good thing, since I know that I am still learning and that my images all have room for improvement.

Sipho – you hit the nail on the head! There are people, on this site and in everyday life, who seem so needy, nasty, hurting, whatever, that they need the negativity that they generate by harassing others. Their lives are so..well…pathetic that they seek out ways of interacting with others that most of us would avoid. For most people life is hard enough without deliberately seeking out conflict. Ignoring people like this is really the only way to deal with them.

Charlene – there is a quote that I have heard in several contexts that may fit here: “if we are to remain a free country and to promote the ideals of true democracy we must learn to accept the rights of others to express ideas and opinions that run deeply against our own beliefs and values”. You may not like or approve of some of the more revealing images posted in some galleries (and in some cases I also do not like them); however as long as these images are not true pornography, I would not like them to be censored. There are, of-course, exceptions: any image that shows a child in a suggestive or provocative pose does not belong on this or any other site. Images showing scenes of human degradation and exploitation also do not belong in public view. Having said this, I recognize the almost impossible nature of attempting to define what is meant by pornography and/or exploitation.

Kerry – as always you make a good point. Jon is one of the people who I feel contributes some of the most valuable and accurate information that is on this site. Yet, he does not have a gallery posted. Would I like to see his work? Sure, but that is neither my right nor his responsibility.

At any rate, I think that most of us can agree that BP is meant to be an open forum for the discussion of anything remotely photographic and that in order to maintain at least a minimum of civility we all need to be at least marginally civil and respectful.


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 7:11:55 AM

 
Art    Account Closed


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 7:15:34 AM

 
Joe Summons   Good, finally got rid of that guy


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 8:20:32 AM

 
Zfsdfb Xdfbsdfb   he was such a bone head


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 8:21:51 AM

 
dave    No joke


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 8:23:31 AM

 
Robyn Gwilt
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/15/2005
  I rest my case. BTW I"m happy to have any kind of constructive criticism. I'm not malicious or bitchy in mine, and I expect others to be the same. I don't expect brownie points, just construction and civility.


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 8:25:09 AM

 
Justin 
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/23/2006
  He gives me the creeps


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 8:25:48 AM

 
Linda Buchanan
lindabuchananphotography.com
  I do understand how you feel Robyn. A couple months ago I posted a question about finding a template to create a magazine cover for my husband's birthday. He is a hunter and this started such a nasty debate about hunting that the whole thread was removed. I never did find a template but had a friend who is a graphic artist create one for me. I am sure I would not always agree with the content of some pics, but that wasn't the question. I do want constructive criticism and have received that in the past, but I have not asked a question since the magazine cover fight. I just read the other questions and answers and hope I see one that benefits me.


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 9:11:47 AM

 
Jerry Frazier   Hey Robyn,

If I critique now, I just critique things that can be critiqued...such as lighting, or maybe the composition. That's all. I keep it light now, unless it's a good friend really wanting me to let them have it.

The other thing about providing critques is this, it's kind of like a critic talking about a movie. You may love a particular movie, but the critics keep saying it sucks. You don't get it, you just like it. So, there you go. It's pointless. I say, never really ask for a critique unless it's from people who you know will answer honestly, and who's opinion you really do trust.

Joe B


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 1:13:44 PM

 
Bob Chance
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/19/2006
  Bravo Sipho:

Very well put, even if I'm a little late coming in on this one. And your advise is probably the best.
The ones who are hear to stir up trouble are most likely doing it for either of the two reasons you stated and the best way to handle them is to just ignore them.
Just don't respond to anything they have to add to a post, because most of the time it's ridicule, or slamming someone and then going on about thier work, of which no one has ever seen because they have never posted any in their gallery.
Yes, maybe there are some here who genuinely add to the sight who have never put together a gallery. I know a few didn't like your idea concerning 'no pic - no play' and rightly so.
But as far as the offending ones. There is no kicking them off the game table as they will just get back in with another name!
Best advice is to ignore them. They feed off the replies they get from their posts, and if we don't feed them, then maybe they'll go somewhere else.


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 4:10:15 PM

 
Mark Feldstein
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/17/2005
  Then, there are some of us who are professionals and derive all our income from our photographic work, including stock. And for that reason, among others, we don't post our work here or elsewhere unless access to viewing our images is restricted to those who have a reason to view them in order to prevent what people complain about here with some regularity: That their WORK is being hijacked without permission in violation of their copyrights.

In my view, one doesn't need a web page or posted images here, or anywhere else for that matter in order to be dedicated to the craft, to offer assistance to others, to teach or even to derail or "hijack a thread".

In fact, in my view, there are a few people around here who are just plain arrogant and the work in their gallery clearly demonstrates to me, at least, that they ain't that good to be that arrogant. And to require people to post images or identifying info as a prerequisite to asking questions to me smacks of restraint on free speech because it's unnecessary to the purposes of this particular site.

By the way, there are plenty of excellent, well-established photographers and writer /photographers and photographic educators around here who don't have galleries or that haven't posted images. Like me, they don't have anything to prove to anyone. Their talent bespeaks itself in the accurate information they convey, the manner in which they convey it, and their own brand of photographic resourcefulness.

Personally, I think anyone who thinks we should have to have our own gallery to post here is perhaps taking themselves waaaaay too seriously and they should get their own website to at least just deliver us from short sightedness (among other pathos).

Take it extra light kids.
Mark
[Hi ya Linda !!!!!!!! ]


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 5:33:20 PM

 
Linda Buchanan
lindabuchananphotography.com
  Hello to you too Mark. It's refreshing to see you discuss a topic you know something about. I actually agree with some of it. God bless.


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 5:53:29 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  my,my,my.
what the gee whiz do I have to say?
I hope you enjoyed the refreshing comment mark?and a god bless...
now all I have to do is put this in the 6 to 12 year old range to help me apply it to my youth center?
my 1964 dictionary didn't have that word (pathos)oh I got it.
such is the world we live in.
restrictions and monitors?
beliefs?
am I a muslim?


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 7:49:23 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  my,my,my.
what the gee whiz do I have to say?
I hope you enjoyed the refreshing comment mark?and a god bless...
now all I have to do is put this in the 6 to 12 year old range to help me apply it to my youth center?
my 1964 dictionary didn't have that word (pathos)oh I got it.
such is the world we live in.
restrictions and monitors?
beliefs?
am I a muslim?
might have nicked a piece of skin on you also mark with your remark?
I was not offended by any post,i may have been an offender?
myself?i need to get back to class,sam


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 8:02:34 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  Anybody mind if I hijack this thread to talk about Sam's strange use of the question mark?


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 10:12:06 PM

 
Robyn Gwilt
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/15/2005
  Joe and Mark I've always appreciated your informative comments, yes one thread became heated, but thats in the past. You're both incredibly informative and helpful, and this wasn't particularly directed at you (but I still would love to see your work, anywhere!! But if not, so be it!)I don't mean to impinge on anyone's freedom of speech, or offend anyone. And I agree, and said earlier - art/photography/in fact music... anything is always subjective. What I love, others might think is complete drivel and vice versa - but its still nice to have comments from someone and then be able to measure what that person thinks is good, against what they've judged in my gallery. EG, if I shot a bird in flight, and thought it was good, and Johnny Santosa commented positively, I'd be delighted - if he said it wasn't great.... because... of lighting, sharpness, lack of detail - I'd seriously go back and look at the image and take cognisance of his comments, coz he really knows what he's talking about when it comes to shooting birds, especially in flight.
Anyway, just wanted to say I didn't want to start another fight (!!!) but see if others were also feeling p'd off about the multiple personalities (mainly) that stalk this site. I guess I'll have to take a chill pill and also ignore him/it/them!


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 11:06:16 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  Mark should be able to at least direct you to something post published or post run in print, if not to a stock site. And Joe, if having a server means having a website, why not just give the address if they're someplace secure?
But if a thread turns into a discussion, as in different than a question that has one or a limited number of answers, it's bound to morph into other topics.
If you ask directions, you can get different answers because there's more than one way to get someplace. But once you get directions, you don't need anything else.
But if you want to have a discussion about how fun it is to visit New York, that can change into other big cities like Philadelphia, I prefer smaller places, ever visit Connecticut, you like bed and breakfast, thought about it, tried it but it rained alot, yes rains a lot in Seattle too, yes but I like the North West, yes great picture taking, I prefer urban night pictures, yes did that in New York, oh I love to vist New York, did that and met a guy who used question marks in a funny way.


To love this comment, log in above
8/22/2006 11:33:42 PM

 
Bob Chance
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/19/2006
  Yeah, and they talk funny too! I should know, I live in and married one. And they say we southerners have an accent!
At least we can annunciate our words properly, even if we do draw them out.

Now, see how fun it is sometimes when a thread goes off topic!!! LOL!!!

I've always wondered Gregory, how do you manage to change your typeface? Obviously not using IE for your browser.


To love this comment, log in above
8/23/2006 2:34:21 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  ??????????
hey.


To love this comment, log in above
8/23/2006 7:55:23 PM

 
Samuel Smith
BetterPhoto Member Since: 1/21/2004
  ah roybn,
kinda,to a point.and sometimes I am guilty.
gee i'm already on probation ?


To love this comment, log in above
8/23/2006 8:35:46 PM

 
Robyn Gwilt
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/15/2005
  !!!
Ok, this is easy, I'm ignoring you already
??
???


To love this comment, log in above
8/23/2006 8:54:53 PM

 
dave    I have been here longer then most of you, never had a gallery and don't need one. Everyone here has a choice what they want to do, and you'll probably notice that most of the best advice comes from non-gallery members. Maybe we are already "pro", dont need to prove anything and want to help a little without creating a fan club.


To love this comment, log in above
8/24/2006 2:28:38 AM

 
Zfsdfb Xdfbsdfb   Mark Feldstein (1937 – October 2001), was an American artist and photographer best known for his large format photography of the streetlife and architecture of New York City.


To love this comment, log in above
8/24/2006 2:39:49 PM

 
Christopher A. Vedros
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/14/2005
  Yes, there was a master photographer named Mark Feldstein who passed away in 2001.

There are also several photographers and photojournalism professors scattered around the country with that name.

There's a Mark Feldstein who produces documentary films.

There's a Mark Feldstein who is an accountant in Canada.

There's even a Mark Feldstein who produces fine novelty items like the flameless candle, the Singing Bird Clock (my grandmother had one), and the Nascar Clock, that chimes the hour with authentic sounds from a racetrack.

There also happens to be a Mark Feldstein who frequently contributes very helpful advice here - and I'm thankful that he does.

Google is a powerful tool, isn't it?

Hey Mark, I'm still waiting for my Nascar Clock!

Chris A. Vedros
www.cavphotos.com


To love this comment, log in above
8/25/2006 9:13:13 AM

 
Rebecca A. Steed
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/6/2005
  I too have received great advice that I use from Mark F., and many others who don't have a gallery you can view. I just wish other people with absolutely nothing to do except be annoying and hold several personalities would leave if they are not going to offer up anything worth anything. And by posting this, I'm sure I'm egging them on, so this will be the last time I give them recognition. I know there are professionals roaming about here just giving some very helpful advise and don't seek recognition, and to you I'm greatful.


To love this comment, log in above
8/25/2006 10:08:58 AM

 
Irene Troy
BetterPhoto Member Since: 5/27/2004
  Thank you, Becky and Chris! Your comments are right on as far as I am concerned. There are a number of regulars on this forum who offer terrific advice; who willingly attempt to help newbies with complex issues and who do all they can to make this a helpful, friendly and congenial place. Many of them do not have a gallery. Would I enjoy seeing images made by people such as Mark, Jon and others? Sure, but to restate the obvious: this is not my right and it is not their responsibility. Unfortunately, there are people who seem to get some type of thrill from creating misery and disharmony and they are extremely vocal and often post comments that are not only stupid, but purposely irritating. There does not appear to be much that the powers-that-be here at BP can do to eliminate this factor. But, as we all know, these type people exist in our real lives as much as they do in our cyber lives. As in most things, you have to take the bad with the good in order to live life.


To love this comment, log in above
8/25/2006 12:12:22 PM

 
dave    I don't know if anyone would agree with me, but I would donate some money to BP to have a techie get rid of this guys account. I use to help out alot, but as soon as this Bozo started his shanagins I don't even answer threads knowing "IT" will kick dirt on them.

Anyone in favor?


To love this comment, log in above
8/26/2006 11:47:34 AM

 
Bob Chance
BetterPhoto Member Since: 2/19/2006
  Problem is, he'll just register again under another name. And if he's up on computers and the internet, then he would use a program to change is IP address every so often, so they wouldn't be able to track him by that means either.

Best thing to do is just ignore anyone who offers offending, condemning input to any of the threads. People like that thrive on the reactions they get from others. If nobody reacts, eventually he'll get bored and move on to some other site.


To love this comment, log in above
8/26/2006 4:42:33 PM

 
Jessica  A. Eiss
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/6/2006
  what happened to the post? This was bumped up to the top because there was a post at 5:06pm, but it's not on here, was it removed? Something a little inappropriate??????? Jess


To love this comment, log in above
8/27/2006 5:35:47 PM

 

BetterPhoto Member
  ???????????

Jerry Frazier
Contact Jerry
Jerry's Gallery

member since: 6/6/2005 Hey Robyn,
If I critique now, I just critique things that can be critiqued...such as lighting, or maybe the composition. That's all. I keep it light now, unless it's a good friend really wanting me to let them have it.

The other thing about providing critques is this, it's kind of like a critic talking about a movie. You may love a particular movie, but the critics keep saying it sucks. You don't get it, you just like it. So, there you go. It's pointless. I say, never really ask for a critique unless it's from people who you know will answer honestly, and who's opinion you really do trust.

Joe B

JF is JB? or Dr.E


To love this comment, log in above
9/9/2006 2:02:49 AM

 
Debby A. Tabb
BetterPhoto Member Since: 9/4/2004
  I TRULY AGREE ! Robyn.
and ok if they don't want to post work, due to possible theift, then I do belive at least a link to some validation is in order.
Some of those interfer in such nasty ways, making it so difficult to help others.
I have gone to posting "I will be glad to help, pease email me direct or send a phone number and we'll do it by phone.
I just do not enjoy the frustration.
Thank you for this post Robyn.
Wishing you the best,
Debby


To love this comment, log in above
9/9/2006 7:57:46 AM

 
Log in to respond or ask your own question.