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Photography Question 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
 

Hasselblad 150mm f2.8 Lenses


I recently came across a Carl Zeiss 150mm f2.8. Near as I am able to determine it is an older C lens. Does anyone have experience with or information about this lens?

3/30/2006 3:12:27 PM

 
Mark Feldstein
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/17/2005
  Actually, Zeiss didn't/doesn't make a 150mm type C f 2.8 lens. About 15 years ago, Zeiss did however, manufacture a 150mm 2.8 type "F" (Not a type "C") Sonnar lens for the Hassie 2000FC, the 205TCC (with electrical contacts) that didn't contain a leaf shutter since the shutter is inside that particular body. The 150/ 2.8
won't work on a standard 500 series Hasselblad body.

Now, if you're referring to the 150mm F4 Sonnar that was made as a type C lens in either chrome or black, that's a much different lens for the different Hasselblad bodies. The F4 CF/*T (with the newer multicoating) or the "CF/T I" (even super improved coating) is probably the second most popular lens Zeiss makes for Hasselblad. The CFT lenses accept a 60 bayonet filter or hood, whereas the type C lenses use a smaller 50mm bayonet arrangement. It's an excellent lens for portraits and I really can't see how or what they would have done to improve the coatings and color rendering of the 150 /4.0 CF*T lens I've been using for about the last 25 years. (Yikes)

If you're talking about the F4, if you know the serial number, lemme know and I be glad to check and let you know when the lens was made.
Take it light
Mark

3/30/2006 4:30:14 PM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
 
 
 
Mark, Thank you for this helpful information. You obviously know the stuff. I've included a photo of the lens for better reference.

While you're here, do you know if the 140-280mm Schneider is any good and whether it works with the 500 series?

3/30/2006 5:23:57 PM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
 
 
 
Still trying to upload the image.

3/30/2006 5:26:05 PM

 
Mark Feldstein
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/17/2005
  Yep, looks like a Type F lens to me. I don't see a shutter or shutter speed adjustment ring. It does have a T* coating though but as I said, this lens won't work on a 500 series body. That particular lens you're looking at has seen some pretty hard use, btw.

A 140-280 Schneider what, exactly? A Variogon 5.6 C or CF lens?? The earlier version, the C lens, was actually the first zoom Hassie had available for the 500 model cameras and came out about 30 years ago. Be careful though because as I recall there was a Variogen F version of this lens which, again, will only work on 2000F camera bodies. Okie dokie?

What do you want to use the lens for that you're looking to buy, who's trying to sell you these things and maybe we need to consider some other options for what you're looking to do. Whaddya think?? ;>)
M/

3/30/2006 5:49:20 PM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
 
 
 
Hasselblad Varigon 140-280 f/5-6 Schnieder ZOOM lens is all I can tell from the eBay listing. Picture to follow.

I've been using Nikon SLR and DSLR. In the 35mm I'm used to working with a 15-30, a 24-70 and an 80-400. I recently got a 501C with an 80mm. I really miss having the wide angle and the long lens. I want them for landscape work -- mostly industrial and urban. But I am a real newbie to medium format and need to keep to a tight budget. So I've been looking on eBay for affordable pieces -- Toronto doesn't seem to have a vibrant used lens market.

3/30/2006 6:06:38 PM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
  Should have answered you on the C vs. F: seller says it is a C lens for the 500 series.

3/30/2006 6:10:37 PM

 
Mark Feldstein
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/17/2005
  Here's two links for you to look at over at KEH.com in Atlanta. If you're not familiar with them, they're a very reputable used equipment dealer. Their equipment comes with a 15 day no questions asked, full refund policy and 30 days parts and labor on any used item you get that might be defective during that time. Probably more than your e-bay seller is offering eh?

This first link is for the 150mm 2.8 F series lens and its specifications. Note that this lens is for use on 200 series bodies.
http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx

Ask your seller there what the aperture and shutter speed range is for that lens. If he says f-4 and T through 1/500th sec., it's a F4.0 150mm CF T lens, (badly worn, I might add) not a 2.8.

Here's another link to the 150mm F4 type C lens, which is quite good and even in bargain grade, which I've always been pleased with from KEH, for $465 bucks, you at least know what you're getting.
http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDetail.aspx

Now, as to the 140 to 280 Variogon, I can't tell the lens you're looking at there is a C or CF. I'll assume it's an older Variogon C, F5.6 which is a good lens, as long as it's not growing any fungus inside, the coatings front and rear are intact, the shutter speeds and f-stop adjustments all operate independent of each other and smoothly.

As far as your intended use for these things shooting landscapes, my own preference is a 100mm F3.5 or even a 60mm f3.5 CF Distagon. Yeah, these are fixed focus, equivalent in your 35mm to about a 70mm and 35mm, respectively. I don't like using zooms for shooting landscapes. But that's a matter of personal preference. For urban and industrial work, like corporate image stuff, sure, the zoom is fine for that. Probably nice if you can't get closer to or move away from the subject.

A 50 mm F4 distagon is a GREAT lens !!Wide angle without distortion that let's you work at close distances yet with great depth of field. I probably use my 50, 60 and 100 more than I've ever used my 80. And with a couple of extension tubes, you can really do some neat close-up stuff.

Okie dokie?
Mark

3/30/2006 7:17:38 PM

 
Mark Feldstein
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/17/2005
  Hey, I went over to E-Bay and looked at your two proposed lenses: The 150 doesn't have any shutter speed ring. It's an F, not a C lens. The seller even acknowledges they're not a camera dealer. He doesn't know what he's got there. It's also in very rough shape. I see corrosion on the rear casing screws. Not a good sign. See for yourself:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7603989961&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BID_Stores_IT

The zoom is definitely a Type C, the older, initial version of the 5.6 Variogon made by Schneider. The newer ones were made by Zeiss and have the CF *T coating. Interestingly, the photo of the front lens element is so out of focus as you can't even read the numbers on the barrel. I'd walk away from that one too. If it needed an overhaul, including new leaves for the shutter, spring, timing mechanism, cleaning, lube and adjustment, you're probably talking at least $200-250 bucks for that alone.

Sorry to be a wet blanket but best to learn this stuff now than after UPS leaves. I'll see what else you might really be interested in over there.
Mark

3/30/2006 7:59:47 PM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
  Mark,

Far from a wet blanket, you have been a tremendous help. I am genuinely grateful for all the time you've taken to give this great advice. I will haul on over to KEH and look around.

You're right about the industrial landscape, the fences, ponds and bays keep you too far back for some of the tighter shots. No sense walking away with 1/8th of a frame.

I really appreciate your help. Thank you.

3/31/2006 4:04:36 AM

 
Michael H. Cothran

member since: 10/21/2004
  I'm coming in on the tail end of this thread, but I'd still like to offer my two cents, being a Hasselblad owner and user since 1972.
The 140-280 zoom, in my opinion, is not at all balanced on any Hasselblad body. It is too long, and too heavy. I believe it places too much stress on the body's throat. You will find it nearly impossible to keep from shaking at the long end, even on a tripod. And hand-holding it is just about as uncomfortable as I would want to be. Note - the C and T* versions of the 350 lens is the same - too long and heavy for the camera. I don't know what Zeiss and Schneider were thinking when they designed these behemoths.

On another line, if you are interested in purchasing some good, used Hassy equipment, I would recommend visiting National Camera Exchange. I recently bought some used Hasselblad equipment from them, and was very pleased with the condition of the items, AND the prices. They rated the pieces as 'execellent,' but in my book, they were 'like new.' Better prices also than what I found on Ebay.
Michael H. Cothran

3/31/2006 12:25:34 PM

 
Mark Feldstein
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/17/2005
  So, AA, what'd you decide to do? I'm not familiar with the balance problem on the zoom lens as Michael mentioned. I can safely say, however, it's not a lens made to be hand-held.
But if you get one of those things, an outfit called Reallyrightstuff.com probably has a tripod mounting bracket for the lens or can make you one without spending too much. That type of bracket would allow you to place it within a given distance along the lens barrel to find a more suitable center of gravity for the thing.

I'm not familiar with National Camera Exchange but compare their prices and warranty to KEH. Might be worthwhile. One thing I clearly saw on e-bay last night is some sellers are charging a premium for not-so premium Hasselblad equipment. You gotta really watch your ass over there.

Oh, and you're welcome. My pleasure, any time.
Take care.
Mark

3/31/2006 6:15:05 PM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
  I've settled on the 250mm C T* over the both the 140-280 or the 500mm. I've also nudged to the 50mm C T* over the older style 40mm. From the first look KEH has reasonable prices matched to the quality of what's on offer at enough levels to give choice. I'll take a look at the National Camera Exchange.

Again, I appreciate your advice very much.

I'll check in after I buy in case anyone is curious.

3/31/2006 6:54:44 PM

 
Michael H. Cothran

member since: 10/21/2004
  I think your choices are much wiser, but it depends on what other lenses you currently own, or plan to buy. The 50 and 250 by themselves leaves a lot to be desired in the middle focal range area.
I love the 250. It's always been a favorite of mine. Can't say enough good things about it. And while I have no desire to own another 50, it is a much better choice again, over the 40. The 40's are also too big in my opinion, and their performance (I understand) is not up to par with it's Zeiss brethren. I would rather spend the extra few bucks for a 38 Super Wide any day. Now there's a lens!! And, it matches well with the 50.
Personally, because of the layout of my own lens system, I own the 60 instead. Not quite as wide as the 50, but I've always liked its focal length in any film format. If you have an 80, the 50 makes a much more logical choice in a wide angle for sure, but I opted for the 100 years ago instead of the 80, and as such, the 60 fits better with the 100. The 50 has always been one of Hasselblad's most common lenses. Hasselblad AND Ansel Adams used to advocate that the "ideal" system included the 50, 80, 150, and 250. Still hard to beat today. My own current system is a slight modification - 60, 100, 180, 250, + 2x tele extender. I have a good friend that owns the 50 and 80, so when we shoot together, we've got a really good system.

One last thing - Be advised about the 50, that it is one of the very few standard Hassy lenses that does not take the standard B50 filter mount in C/T* or B60 in later CF versions. I don't remember off hand what the actual filter size is, but they are bigger, and do tend to be expensive. But then again, if you're buying Hasselblad, what isn't expensive?? BTW - the current 50 has a manually controlled floating element, which significantly improves its performance close up.
And be sure to check out National Camera Exchange. In my own experience with them, their Hassy equipment has always been better than advertised, cheaper than Ebay (plus no bidding wars), and they offer free shipping. If they've got the used lenses you want in stock, I doubt you'll do better anywhere else. Gil Ghitelman is also a longtime Hasselblad expert dealer, but their prices tend to be a little higher. However, they do speak Hasselblad very fluently.
Good luck.
Michael H. Cothran

3/31/2006 7:55:12 PM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
  I bought the camera with the 80 and your rationale reaffirms the decision. Thanks again.

3/31/2006 8:46:29 PM

 
Mark Feldstein
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/17/2005
  I'm confused. You said you already had a 501C with an 80 mm lens, right? Unfortunately, what Ansel Adams would have had and what you may prefer may also be out of financial reach for you right now. I think you ought to hold off on your purchase for a few minutes and consider some things:

If your primary use for the camera at this point will be landscapes, industrial, city scapes, etc., for wider angle views, but not more extreme wide angles, my own preference would be the 60mm, not the 80. And even for portraits, while the 80 is the MF equivalent of the "normal lens", it's not ideal for portraits (whereas the 150 is superb for that use), and the 80 provides a slightly narrower perspective of scenic views than both the 50 0r 60.

As for filters, first, you don't need to buy Zeiss / Hassie filters or even B+W. You could just go with a good resin filters system, like Hitech, and get a 50 and 60 bayonet adapter ring for the filter holder. That will allow you to work with both the C and CF lenses.

Michael is incorrect about the 50 CF T Distagon, btw. It takes a standard 60 bayonet filter. If you stacked filters with it, it'll vignette, or if you use the wrong size lens shade, it'll vignette but the filter size is a standard 60 bayonet. If you stick with larger filters stepped to the smaller 60 size, you should be fine.

Another way around the 50-60 filter problem is to buy 67 threaded filters (much less than 60 bayonet), and then a 67 threaded to 60 bayonet step down ring. Tiffen seems to work the best and costs only a few bucks at B&H.

OK, so what I'm proposing is for you to avoid the 80MM, which I said I rarely use anymore, and plan a system with either the 50 or 60mm, the 100mm, 150 and then the 250 (which when used with an #8 extension tube, does stellar portrait work too). That's essentially what Mike is saying and the system I employ as well (with both the 50 and 60. It just worked out that way. When it's set plumb, leel and square, the 50 Distie, is good for architecture, especially interiors.

And while the SWC is a sweet wide angle camera, certainly well suited to industrial work, landscapes and whatever else calls for that much of a wide angle, the 38mm is fixed to the body and you can't change it. Depending on the model you get, you may also not be able to use the newer Polaroid 100 back.

BTW, if you ever REALLY need to get confused, feel free to just send me an e-mail at Mark-Feldstein@sbcglobal.net
Good luck
Mark

4/1/2006 11:01:22 AM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
  Mark, I enjoy extreme confusion and will send you that email. But for the sake of clarity what I was saying to Michael is that I had already bought the 501C with the 80 and so his advice about the 50, 150 and 250 seemed to fit with the 80.

You're right about the financial reach bit. It seems to me pretty easy to blow the wad on Hassie lenses and accessories. The 50 seems to have a 75 degree angle and in the bargain bin it's manageable. My only hesitation was that the older 40 Distie may give me all the angle I'll need. But you seem to be heading in the other direction toward the 60, which frankly strikes me as a little tight to my Planar 80.

I can see the 60 100 150 250 or the 40/50 80 150 250 systems working. On the Nikon's I rarely use the 50 focal length and I tend to find the 80 a little awkward right now, but I expect that once I pick up some complementary lenses, the system will fall in place a little better.

If I had the cash to plow into a wide angle, I'd probably save it for a panoramic Hassie.

Thanks again to you guys. This back and forth is helping me get a handle on things.

4/1/2006 3:24:58 PM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
  BTW, I had the 50 C T in mind because it is more economical. Any reason to for me to be spending for the CFT?

4/1/2006 4:32:28 PM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
  In case anyone is curious, I've ordered the 50 (63) (BTW) and 250 C T. Looking forward to seeing them. Now, about those filters and adapters...?

4/2/2006 10:02:21 AM

 
Mark Feldstein
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/17/2005
  Well, since you've already got the 80, then sure, you can do without the 60. Hassie bundled their bodies, mag, a lens, and WL finder as a kit, essentially, and a slightly discounted price over individual components. It was/ still is? a marketing tool.

So what would you like to know about the filters and adapters? Look at Hitech, which is the one I use and have for about 10-11 years or so. I do have some standard 60 bay or 67 threaded filters stepped down to 60 bay but tend to use the Hitech more often. Remember to save a few bucks to get an extra magazine or two, including a polaroid 100 mag. At least one of those.

Mark

4/2/2006 11:43:10 AM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
  Right. I have an A12, an A24 and a Polaroid back. I am looking to get an A16. I am wondering about the type of adapter that I will need for the 250 (63). I liked your idea of going to 67 threaded filters stepped down. Cheers.

4/2/2006 3:31:16 PM

 
Mark Feldstein
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/17/2005
  Here's some info from the Visual Departures website. Allen Green imports the Hitech system from England.

"Rigid yet light-weight, the Hitech holder's precision-machined anodized aluminum construction can withstand a lifetime of professional use. Filters slide smoothly in and out of the holder's spring-loaded slots.

There are several types of filter holders for Hitech's 4x4-inch filters. The standard model (#1002) has slots for three filters, plus a 105mm threaded front ring. The wide-angle model (#1004) has two filter slots and no front ring, which allows vignette-free shooting even with wide-angle lenses having large front elements. A third model (#1005) combines a single slot with a ring, useful for wide-angle work with polarizers.

The holder is secured to the lens with an adapter ring. Adapter rings come in both screw- and bayonet-mount versions, from 49mm to 105mm. Wide-angle adapter rings are available in the same size range and can be used with any holder model. View camera users will be happy to know that the Hitech filter holder can even be used on the back of their lenses with a special rear-element adapter."
____________________________
So, apparently, Hitech offers some sort of ring to work with its filter holder and your lens. For the 50 C F4, I guess that takes an older style drop in filter that's 63 in diameter.

I'd suggest that you go to the Hitech Section of the Visual Departures site
http://www.visualdepartures.com/mainfram.html There's a contact link there. Drop Allen Green a note and just tell him what you've got and ask whether Hitech makes a ring for those lenses. He's quite knowledgable about the system. The alternative is to buy a bunch of 67 filters and adapt them, but with that 50, you might vignette. Don't know. I'd consider the Hitech or something like it.
Later dude.
Mark

4/2/2006 5:15:26 PM

 
Ahab Abdel-Aziz
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/25/2006
  Thanks Mark. That's quite an education I'm getting for the Hassie.

on my way to Visual Departures and BTW KEH was a very good call! Thanks.

4/2/2006 6:50:02 PM

 
Mark Feldstein
BetterPhoto Member

member since: 3/17/2005
  My pleasure Ahab.
Mark

4/3/2006 6:34:41 PM

 

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