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Photography Question 
Jennifer H. White
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/30/2005
 

Chromogenic Prints


I have recently seen a few chromogenic color prints. Is there a way to get the same effect with a digital camera?


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3/28/2006 1:55:04 PM

 
John P. Sandstedt
BetterPhoto Member Since: 8/8/2001
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  Not sure I'm correct, but I believe chromogenic film is B&W film that is developed with the C-41 color print chemistry. This film can be processed in one-hour service stores.

Typically, an in my experience, the rub is that the prints have a sepia cast. this is, generally, the result of use of color print paper instead of B&W paper.]

You can use Filters to create sepia images with Photoshop.


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3/29/2006 7:43:37 AM

 
Jennifer H. White
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/30/2005
  Well, the photos that I saw were not black and white photos. There were various colors in the prints.


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3/29/2006 2:14:32 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  c-41 black and white has been called chromogenic, but chromogenic also means a type of print that forms from dyes instead of silver halide. How it's done I don't know. Think the color prints are the true meaning of chromogenic.


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3/29/2006 3:34:51 PM

 
Justin G.
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/13/2004
  i think that's correct as well. i've been reading up on some ilfochrome and it's been referred to as chomrogenic prints. i'm not sure if ra-4 is labeled "chromogenic" but would assume that it all means color considering chromo means prints using three layers of color.

i think the original question will have more of a subjective answer to it. I recently had a ilfochrome print made from a velvia slide and the color, contrast, quality is all very very rich. it's got its own 'life' to it, if you will. but then again that could be the time and effort put into it. i'm sure you could boost your color, perfect your contrast and print on awesome paper and you'd be close but it's two completely different things: one is a digitalized image "spray painted" onto paper and the other's paper has silver crystals in it that are dyed to certain colors depending on how they are filter (the RBG channels). so you're comparing a quote-unquote "painted" processing to a chemical process. two different worlds. I think its up to the user to decide which is better and which to emulate.


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3/29/2006 9:12:05 PM

 
John P. Sandstedt
BetterPhoto Member Since: 8/8/2001
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  Gee, Folks, according to the Internet's Free Dictionary:

ChroŽmo`genŽic
a. 1. (Biol.) Containing, or capable of forming, chromogen; as, chromogenic bacteria

But, according to an article in the Dale Labories archives:

"About 20 years ago, Ilford introduced the first chromogenic film, XP1. This film was designed to go through a color film process and produce a roughly "neutral" dye image (as opposed to a silver image on conventional B&W films). The dye images could be printed as black and white on B&W paper or with a slight color hue on color paper. Later, Ilford improved their film with the introduction of XP2."


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3/30/2006 6:28:37 AM

 
Jennifer H. White
BetterPhoto Member Since: 6/30/2005
  Thank you for your input, but it doesn't really answer my question at all.


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3/31/2006 8:42:36 AM

 
Justin G.
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/13/2004
  "i think the original question will have more of a subjective answer to it. I recently had a ilfochrome print made from a velvia slide and the color, contrast, quality is all very very rich. it's got its own 'life' to it, if you will. but then again that could be the time and effort put into it. i'm sure you could boost your color, perfect your contrast and print on awesome paper and you'd be close but it's two completely different things: one is a digitalized image "spray painted" onto paper and the other's paper has silver crystals in it that are dyed to certain colors depending on how they are filter (the RBG channels). so you're comparing a quote-unquote "painted" processing to a chemical process. two different worlds. I think its up to the user to decide which is better and which to emulate."


my answer is no. i'm sure there are ways to get it close but it's two totally different things. one uses ink, the other uses crystals. but then again it's all subjective. if you want the effect pull out some film and get the chromogenic effect you want.


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3/31/2006 9:46:36 AM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  I had to look up chromogenic to see a definition and see what one looked liked. The definitions I found said it dosen't come from halide crystals, and the pictures I saw didn't give enough to get an idea of what you'd have to do to make it look chromogenic. Not from a web image. I can only describe them as looking polaroid like. Not paint quality, but contrast and look that I've only seen like a polaroid.So without a print, or a vivid description of what it's like to look at it, it may be hard to translate that into what to do with a digital file.
A definiton said it's dosen't use silver halide, it uses dyes which makes it very smooth and almost grainless.


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3/31/2006 12:54:05 PM

 
Justin G.
BetterPhoto Member Since: 7/13/2004
  what do you think it's dying? the air? the coupler couplers bond to the silver salts (sorry for using the term crystals).

here's the definition:
Color print made from a color transparency or negative. The print material has at least three emulsion layers of silver salts. Each layer is sensitized to one of the three primary colors in the spectrum. During the first stage of development a silver image is formed on each layer. Dye couplers are then added which bond with the silver and form dyes of the appropriate colors in the emulsion layers.

Just a thought.


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3/31/2006 1:34:38 PM

 
Gregory LaGrange
BetterPhoto Member Since: 11/11/2003
gregorylagrange.org
  Well with different definitions not coming across as saying the same thing, it's sounding like it maybe regular color printing. If that's true, than I would say you can depending on the printing and the file. If it's not regular color printing and something unique, then I don't know.


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3/31/2006 2:04:17 PM

 
Christopher A. Vedros
BetterPhoto Member Since: 3/14/2005
  Jennifer,

Can you describe the chromogenic prints that you saw, and what it is about these prints that you want to duplicate?

Chris


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3/31/2006 2:12:37 PM

 
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