 Bobbi S. Tomes |
IS there money to be made? Hi everyone, it's me again. Always looking at the dark side of things first... Okey, I took my portfolio to my cna class last night. I handed out every business card I had with me and everyone said I was so good, so talented, why did I want to be a cna when I could be a photographer and "make so much money"... they all seemed to genuenly love my work. But as much as they loved it, I wonder if I will get even a single job from all the business cards I gave away? Well it won't suprize me if I don't. So is there money to be made? Does anyone make a decent living off a home portrait studio? I have made good money in spurts, but also had months where I went in the hole. Now, I know some of the reason I dont get a lot of jobs is that I ONLY advertise by word of mouth at this point. I want to feel like I have all the proper equipment, a nice looking room of my house soley dedicated to being a studio, and such related things befor I advertise on a higher level. I am not wanting to sound picky or like I want to start out at the top, but I have seen too many other small time photographers like myself go under shortly after they started advertising. I dont want to follow their lead. If I could make some money... I could probably finish getting what I need for 5,000. That is the studio room in my house, the remaining equipment I need, advertising materials, ect... but I can only drag in a couple of jobs a month at this point, and some of them dont make me a dime! Sometimes I spend more doing a job then I make off of it. How can I increase my work so I can make the cash to get me where I want to be????????????????????????????????? btomes.photosite.com
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Raymond F. Bohac Jr |
Bobbi, Yes there is money to be made. I think the answer to your question is really a matter of population density in your area and the amount of competition you face. Word of mouth is, in my opinion, the best advertising you can get. However it does take time to build a client base. I live in a community of approximately 60,000 and it took years to build a reputation based on performance. I kept my day job until I found my client base. I joined a local art league and just showed my work throughout the community until people remembered my name. I still show my work and enter as many local juried shows as I can. You may try to set up a small booth at some local or community events around your area. Try setting up some strategic alliances with local businesses where people will be looking for your type of work. For example if you shoot portraits try getting some work hanging in the local formal wear rental shop, sports apparel shop, sporting goods business, wedding cake designer, and others. Help each other out with package deals for clients. Offer some work to local businesses to hang in their restaurants, offices, waiting rooms, etc. Get involved in community affairs like the PTA, city council, school board, or other community based groups or clubs. Just get your name out. Things I tried that did not work for me was phone book advertising (too expensive for the return) and newspaper ads. Some things that did work are targeted mailings and my business cards as well as strategic alliances with some of the local businesses. Reciprocal advertising with businesses that would not be in competition with me and would benefit with cost sharing. This is just one mans opinion to get where you want to be and I am sure there are many others with various ideas that will work better or as well. Just hang in there and keep shooting and showing your work. Raymond
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
yeah, I am beginning to think the ONLY $$ to be made is in Portrait Photography...But, you also have to compete with the likes of Walmart, JC Penny...Sears.. Thats a pretty tall order. I guess if your good, realy good it will help. What Id like to know is, how many here can eek out a pretty good living selling prints like animals and landscapes and such? Craig-
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Raymond F. Bohac Jr |
Bobbi and Craig, While portrait work is probably the best was to make money from the general public, landscapes and animal portraiture can also bring in some dollars. While having clients into my studio they can view other more “artistic” work I have completed. This has led to sales. Good framing and a willingness to listen to your clients will help generate income. By seeing examples of everyday things done as objects of interest in a photograph you can help to create an interest in commission work. I think that price is also very important. You can get more from your work in a large city than you can in a small town. I have noticed over the years that people in the east like the desert southwest in photographs and people out west like the pastoral farm scenes of the east. Also, with the new technology available to today’s photographer you can create some very interesting work in graphic software apps. Whether you work in film or digitally the market is there. It just takes a lot of legwork and perseverance. Raymond
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Pat Worster |
First of all you have to spend money to make money. I have been getting my name around the surrounding communities and have picked up new clients by offering a portrait package to be raffled off to benefit several fire victims in my area. People have had their homes burned down and the townspeople have had all kinds of raffles and benefit dinners to raise money. It is inexpensive way to advertise and it works for me. You are doing something to help someone in need, your name and business gets around and it is a tax write off. I also have a small float in the local parade displaying my work and offering small freebies.
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Mark Feldstein |
Funny, we seem to keep having nearly identical conversations with you over the same issues. A month or two ago, I suggested that you stop buying or even just looking for equipment, sit down and formulate a flexible business plan that includes a budget AND an equally flexible marketing plan (and pricing plan designed to turn a profit) and THEN implement the thing one step at a time. I'll lay odds you haven't done that yet. Instead Bobbi, your energies sound like their focused on grasping at straws with equipment, equipment and more equipment at the center of the bunch. I made a very decent living with 2 old 35mm Nikon F-2s, a couple of lenses and shooting motion picture stills out of the union in Burbank. I supplemented that income when I felt like I wanted to, shooting portraits using the same two Nikons. Then, one day, I bought a Norman pack and two heads. And if you can't do these things on your own, or get help with them, then you know what?? Maybe you're either not ready to do it on your own or you need to work for someone else for awhile to see how it IS done. While not intending to be harsh or overly critical of you, try focusing on the whole donut rather than the hole for awhile and see what happens. ;>) Come up with a business plan first or I'd guess that you'll be destined to go the way of the predecessors you described.
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BetterPhoto Member |
When talking portrait photography, I can't even come close to the portrait packages that K-mart and Wal-Mart sell. There's not a lot of money here in the locals market, so I aim for tourists. Just some food for thought. Have fun and keep shooting,
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Shooting stills out of the union in Burbank, that had to be a while ago. I heard you have to be union, and there's only two ways to get into the union. To have a current union member help you get in, or shoot independent films non-union until you qualify. And I wouldn' think any independent films nowadays are done in Burbank, are they?
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Mark Feldstein |
Yes you do. IATSE Local 659. BTW, it's also BYOB (Bring your own blimp). As far as I know, quite a few independent films are still shot in L.A and Orange counties and most of the indies are still signatories to the union agreements, including 659. The term independent means independent of the major studios, not of the unions. And aside from getting on the 659 qualification list which is a prerequisite to getting hired out of the hall, a member of another union local can specifically request someone's services on a film or TV production and for that 659 will allow you to get your initiation dues current and get your union book up to date, pay current dues and let you work on that particular project so long as you're paid at least current scale and you work at least the number of required hours per the union contract. I luff dis countree !!!
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- Gregory LaGrange Contact Gregory LaGrange Gregory LaGrange's Gallery |
Is there still only one place in the world to get a blimp? Are those things made to fit different models, like lens mounts are to different brands. A blimp for eos, a blimp for nikon. I can see how it can be made to fit a cable release socket in the shutter button. But how does it work with a regular cameras, focusing and stuff?
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Bobbi S. Tomes |
mark F. "While not intending to be harsh or overly critical of you" Then don't, dear Mark, then don't. I asked for helpful advice, not rude oppinions. Yes, my topcis may be related, thus you can see where my troubles lay. My area is not a good place to sell. It is a small community with a serious meth drug problem. Ever heard of the Katie Collman case about a year ago? That was 5 miles from my house. Just pick up the paper and read about bodys found, unsolved deaths, meth labs, child abuse, prostitution... and this is a VERY small and low income town. I dont think people have any real concern about pictures around here. Moving is not an option.
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BetterPhoto Member |
Hi Bobbi; Don't take it to heart. I don't think the other Mark understands what living in a low income town is like. I live in one of the most popular tourist towns in the United States. And being that popular, we only make minimum wage. I learned to gear the business toward the tourists. I sell only locally taken photographs, and I must sell them at impulse prices. I fully understand what you are going through. Have fun and keep shooting,
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Kerry L. Walker |
Bobbi, don't take Mark's post so personally. I do not think he intended to denigrate you in any way. He was just pointing out that a business plan is a necessity. You do have talent so that is not a problem. Part of a business plan is determining whether the community will support the business you wish to establish. It may be that the demographics are against you. I believe I once read that it takes around 25,000 to 30,000 people to support a portrait studio. It may be that your market is already oversaturated.
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Autumn Hernandez |
Have you thought about branching out? Maybe not sticking to just portraits, since that doesn't seem to be working, would be a better idea. Have you though about submitting things to magazines or card companies? I'd suggest, if the market isn't there, bring the market to you. Go get yourself a 2006 Photographer's Market book and look up the subjects you like to shoot, like children, and see what kind of market there is for those types of photos. It's not a huge amount of money for a magazine photo, but at least it's something.
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Mark Feldstein |
Kerry's exactly right on both counts, including asking whether your own demographics are working against you and whatever plan you may have. It also seems you've answered your own questions to a greater extent. So let me ask you something...if you didn't happen to live where you do, would you be willing to travel with your kids to that kind of neighborhood you described to have their photo taken? Or, would you prefer to go to walmart?? From what you described in terms of bodies being found, unsolved deaths, meth labs, child abuse, prostitution... and this is a VERY small and low income town. I dont think people have any real concern about pictures around here", you seem to be looking to create a niche in an area that won't economically support it. And, from what you say, if Walmart or kmart had to make a profit from selling their photography at a loss, (which is what they do to get people to come into the stores), then they couldn't make a living based solely on that either. So, it strikes me that you're faced with two insurmountatble tasks: First, trying to sell a product at a price point that commercial entities delibertately lose money on to lure people to their stores to buy other goods, and Second: trying to educate the general public where you are as to why quality photography vs. what walmart offers, should make a difference to them and they should be willing to pay more for it. I don't think you have the budget for the advertising, marketing and education program needed to overcome that mentality. If moving is not an option, then you need to offer your services in areas where the population base BOTH understands the value of the service AND can afford it. Find another space to work in and in a different neighborhood; share rent with other photographers. Maybe even figure out a way to share equipment with others. In my view, at least, you can't afford to be dumping $5 grand on equipment when you haven't got the work or evern the advertising in place to support that sort of investment. In addition, and again, not to be harsh, the clientele you seem to be describing wouldn't have the slightest clue about what light or camera you're using. It seems that if what you're really saying is true, then like you they want to see results, not equipment. Lastly, as to Mark H. mentioned, don't ever assume anyone, including me, is that culturally sterile. And most of all, don't use imagined personal anecdotes about someone you don't know to asuage someone elses feelings over an issue you may or may not have any real personal experience with. In my case, you're 180 degrees off course. Mark F.
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Raymond F. Bohac Jr |
Bobbi, I have been following this thread since the beginning and I may have a suggestion you may not have thought of. If it would not be too dangerous for you, you may try to journal through photography the conditions of your neighborhood. It would be an interesting and most importantly, educational photo journal of what you and your neighborhood have been going through. Again this may be too dangerous for you but it may be a way to get your name out, earn some money and educate the public to gain some sympathy for the plight of your neighborhood. Bobbi, In any case the reality for you is that there probably is not a market in your area for studio work and advertising that you have photo equipment may actually attract an attack on you. You may need to consider leaving your community if you can, or at minimum, as Mark F has stated, go to areas where you will be appreciated. None of these options will be easy for you; on the contrary it will be very hard. I’m not trying to discourage you but I feel you must consider what you have told us in this narrative. Raymond F Bohac Jr
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Kathy Radford |
Bobbi, good luck, sounds like you have your work cut out for you in your neighborhood. It sounds like no matter how good your portraits are it is going to be a tough sell in your area. You may have to find other types of shots such as landscapes or flowers or something and sell them in neighboring areas. I agree if there is any kind of tourist area around, go for that instead. I don't know how far away it would be from your home. Another suggestion where you like portraits, are there any sports teams around you could do team shots of. Just a thought. I also am interested in Craig's question of making money with landscapes and other shots. I just recently put my photo note cards in convenience stores in two different towns. I started them each off with 10 note cards each. They are all local scenery shots. One is a resort area in the NH Seacoast, the other is a small town in Exeter, NH where the exclusive private school (Phillips Exeter Academy) is located. Wish me well with those 2 stores. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Good luck Bobbi and keep plugging. It's a matter of finding the right fit. Keep us posted. Kathy in NH
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Justin G. |
I'm not trying to be harsh either, but just being realistic about your conditions. "Just pick up the paper and read about bodys found, unsolved deaths, meth labs, child abuse, prostitution... and this is a VERY small and low income town. I dont think people have any real concern about pictures around here." #1 You've answered it yourself. If nobody has any real concern for pictures, then selling them may not be an option. #2 You could become a photographer for a forensic lab or the PD. I'm not trying to be a jokester but if drugs, murders, meth labs, etc. are popular then maybe try getting hired on the PD to do documentary work alongside the officers. You'd probably need to get a film camera but maybe if you were really persistent you could land a job. Just a thought. Please take no offense.
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BetterPhoto Member |
Justin's got a real idea for ya there, Bobbi. You can try your local PD. You may need to take a course on investigations. Check with your PD, and if you do, check with your local college. A word of warning, If you don't have a cast iron stomach, GET ONE. That job ain't like shooting daisies in the park. You'll see things they can't show on CSI-Miami.
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BetterPhoto Member |
One more thing- good luck, Kathy.
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Justin G. |
"You'll see things they can't show on CSI-Miami". All the cool stuff! Heck I'm sure you'll get a waiver for any A&P classes you'll have to take in CNA! lol.
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BetterPhoto Member |
I just hope she likes seeing red.
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Bobbi S. Tomes |
Wow, the one thing I never thought of, that would certainly be interesting but being as things are I would asume they already have it covered. But it would not hurt to try. Why would it require a film camera? I think digital takes much nicer photos. I dont know though, I really truly love to do portraits. Maybe it is time to look into other avenues. I can always continue to do portraits and maybe if I could build my name among a place like the police department then I might be able to attract a few decent people. And about magazines, I would love to see some of my work published but I have never done it or tried and have no clue how to go about it.
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BetterPhoto Member |
Investigation requires documentation. Negatives are documentation. Another item to be discussed is that you will need an autofocus camera. The operation of these cameras is easier to explian in court. The jury will want to hear about pushing a button, not a two hour explanation about how you had to dial in this and turn that to get the correct this and the the exposure had to be...you get the (pardon the pun) picture. Don't expect that work to be published. That's a form of photography thats not discussed in a coffee shop. Unless you cover a major case (rape, murder) most of the photographs you take, including negatives, will be locked in an evidence locker. 20 years down the road, you may see your work in books like Crimes and Punishment. You can't discuss any of the work until court cases are over. For magazine work, you usually need slides. Magazine work usually doesn't pay very well (a cover shot for Dirt Bike magazine paid $85 for me) but it looks good on a resume. Most magazine shots are sold through stockhouses. You can research them on the net. Stockhouses want you to keep your work current. A stockhouse will store your slides, and if someone asks to see, say, lightning shots, and they have some of yours, your slides may be shown. If selected, the viewing party (or the stockhouse) will contact you to work out the details. You barter a price until a mutual price is met. A contract is signed, and your shot appears in Petersen's Photographic.
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Mark Feldstein |
A film camera is usually required because it produces negatives that are stored with prints and part of the chain of evidence/custody. You could also consider just becoming a freelance crime photographer...like Weegee (Arthur Felig) who was a prominent photojournalist in the 1920's through 60's) in New York. Essentially a crime reporter photographer, he made most of his living shooting portraits of prominent and not-so-prominent deceased (murders, suicides oh...and mayhem) and the seemiest sides of life. For years processed his film in the trunk of his car in order to get it to the news editors first. His work has been depicted in numerous books and a fine art photography exhibit that traveled around the country a few years ago. Pretty interesting stuff. Here's a link to his permanent exhibit at the International Center for Photography Good luck
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BetterPhoto Member |
I owe you an apology. I didn't mean that as an assault. I guess I got a little hairy and worded things wrong. I do know the Chicago area. I can remember walking into a home in Inverness to shoot a wedding, and walking out with a check for $1,500. I can still remember going to Crystal Lake and charging a fifty dollar traveling fee to do an outdoor portrait (see photo above). I was just trying to say that the demographics of your area are a 180 degree turnaround from the areas that Bobbi and I live in. Again, I apologize,
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Autumn Hernandez |
Just wanted to touch on the magazine thing. A lot more places are accepting digital images, as long as you have the right specs on them. And yes, some of them do pay pretty low, but some pay enough to pursue. At least it's enough to save up and buy new equipment. lol Like I mentioned before, Bobbi, grab yourself the 2006 Photographer's Market book at your local bookstore. (or even the library) It has an outline of the procedure you go through to submit to magazines and card houses. If you really have the stomach for the CSI stuff, go for it, but I couldn't do it.
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Mark Feldstein |
Thanks Mark. Appreciated and accepted. Mark ;>)
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BetterPhoto Member |
Hey Bobbi; Another place you may want to try is your local FBI office. They usually use inhouse investigative photographers, but they may be able to give you some real advice and insite into the realm. They will be able to tell you exactly what you will need to get started. I know a forensic photographer in L.A. that got his start through an FBI grant. This may be another idea for ya. Have fun and keep shooting,
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Hunter J. Womack |
www.myspace.com Is where I promote myself. With 1/2 of the world or more on the network Its a pretty amazing place. I also made a slideshow of my photos with music and broadcasted it to over 2,000,000 people on www.youtube.com. Just a couple suggestions. :)
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Bobbi S. Tomes |
You know how in the post I said I brought my portfolio to cna class and handed out business cards? Well I was suprized that I got three upcomming jobs off of it. One for senior photos of a womans two sons, one for two children, and a wedding. I didnt think I would get a single call even though everyone acted impresed by my work. The cna class was several towns, about an hour or greater drive from my town. Maybe I should try some more distant advertising and see...
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Pat Worster |
Good for you Bobbi. I always advertise all of the surrounding towns. Some of these places are 50 miles or more away and it does bring in business. Pat
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Craig m. Zacarelli |
Hey Bobbi, Have you thought of working or applying at one of the Walmart or Kmart photo centers? That would be like free training that youd get paid for and then there is the exposure and after you left there you'd be able to advertise and when asked you could say, yes, I worked here and here and, believe me, people will think, "well, she worked for this one and that one, She must be pretty good". just a thought. Craig-
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BetterPhoto Member |
Congradulations and best of luck there Bobbi. You earned it.
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